Clermont City Council Transcript 8/25/26

5:46 I call this meeting to order. Welcome to our council meeting for August 25th, 2026.
5:52 Virtual participation in council meetings are available on your computer or smartphone via Microsoft Teams or by telephone. You can learn how to
6:01 participate virtually by visiting our website www.clemountfl.gov and search for attend council meetings online.
6:11 In the interest of time, efficiency, and ensuring that everyone who wish to address the council is given the opportunity to do so, the following will apply to all comments made by the public
6:20 in person and virtually. Each speaker will be made will be permitted three minutes to address the council in an effort to be respectful during the
6:28 meeting. Please make sure your cell phones are set to silence. Thank you for participating in your city government.
6:35 Uh today's invitation will be given by Reverend Jordan from New Jacob Chapel Missionary Baptist Church. Reverend
6:42 Jordan, please please rise and remain standing for the pledge of allegiance.
6:51 Can we bow our heads?
6:54 Heavenly Father, Lord, we give you honor today. We come with a humble spirit.
7:00 Lord, we ask that you look down upon every Congress, every s Congress person that's here today. Lord, we ask that you would touch their heart, touch their
7:09 mind. Lord, give them the spirit of Solomon. Lord, give them the heart of Moses. Lord, we ask for understanding that you only that you can provide.
7:20 Lord, we ask that you would guide them, strengthen them, and Lord, that they will have the right judgment for your people today. Yes. Yes.
7:27 Lord, we pray for those that are here.
7:29 Lord, we might not see eye to eye or always come out to agreement, but Lord, we know that the verdict would be just.
7:36 And we praying, Lord, that everyone that leaves here, Lord, will leave here with that spirit in mind. Lord, we ask that you look down upon the the police chief
7:45 today, Lord, that you would touch him, give him wisdom, give him guidance.
7:49 Lord, we ask you look down upon the fire department, Lord. We ask that you would strengthen him right now. We ask you look down upon the city of Clermont.
7:57 Lord, we ask that you would bless this city, Lord, that you would prosper this city. Yes. That it be like no other city here in Florida. And Lord, we asking
8:05 that as we go forth, Lord, we go forth with your guidance. We go forth with your spirit. Lord, we go forth that you will bless each and every household
8:14 here. Lord, we pray for that and many more in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Amen.
8:20 I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
8:26 for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all.
8:33 Thank you. Please be seated.
8:44 Okay. Hey, this afternoon we have a proclamation honoring the honoring the life of Alberto May Tony Bale Roscoll.
8:54 Yes, ma'am.
8:55 Whereas Hold just a minute. Miss Renee, you want to come up front, please?
9:05 Okay, you just turn send her face, please.
9:09 Whereas Alberta May Tony Bel Resco, a beloved educator, mentor, and community leader, devoted more than 30 years to
9:16 educating and inspiring generations of students and families throughout South Lake County. And whereas Tony was part of the Bell family legacy that brought
9:25 Bell Ceramics to Clermont, a successful family-owned business that grew into an internationally recognized leader in
9:33 ceramic and porcelain products and made a lasting contribution to Clermont's history, economy, and community.
9:41 And whereas Tony began her teaching career at Manola Elementary before serving at Clermont High School as a language arts and senior English
9:49 teacher, yearbook and drama club coordinator and national honor society leader where students affectionately knew her as Ma Bell and later served as
9:58 a guidance counselor at South Lake High School, continuing her commitment to mentoring young people and helping them build the confidence to pursue their
10:06 goals and dreams. Whereas Tony's influence extended far beyond the classroom through her compassion, humor, wisdom, and encouragement, leaving a
10:15 lasting impression on countless students, colleagues, friends, and families who considered her a trusted mentor and friend. Whereas throughout
10:23 her retirement, Tony remained deeply committed to the Clermont community through her service with Beta Theta ESA
10:30 sorority, Cooper Memorial Library Association, Kowanas Club of Clermont, Clermont Historical Society, and as a
10:38 volunteer at the Clermont Historic Village. And whereas Tony passed away on May 16, 2026 at the age of 86, leaving
10:46 behind a legacy of education, service, kindness, and encouragement that will continue to live in the hearts of many people whose lives she touched.
10:56 Now therefore be it proclaim that the city of Clout recognizes and honors the life and legacy of
11:03 Alberto May Tony Bale Rosco expresses it sincere appreciation for her extraordinary contribution to the city
11:11 to the Clmont community and extends his deepest sympathy to her family, friends, former students and all who mourn her
11:19 passing. In witness whereof I have here unto set my hand and called the great seal of the city of Clmont to be affixed
11:26 this 25th day of August in the year 2026.
11:31 Uh before I come down Miss let me say that I see a lot of her students and other
11:38 people club members and all this out here. I'm if it's okay I'm going invite you all if you want to come up and take take pictures as I come down and present
11:46 this. But uh I just want to say Miss Miss Bale was a very inspirational and great contributor to this community. She was my 10th grade English teacher. Okay.
11:56 She taught me in 10th grade and I can remember um I don't think a lot of people know but there used to be some railroad tracks used to come through
12:03 Clemont uh down here do front and one of the properties where actually where the boat ramp is at. Tony Bell and them own
12:11 a business there called Bell Ceramics and the remember many nights the trainers come and drop box cars off the area for all the supplies to be unloaded
12:20 there and everything. So they contributed a lot to this community and she owned different other properties and contributed. I am a member of the Kowanas Club as a matter of fact and
12:28 it's because of Miss Bell as well. She had the influence on me and encouraged me to join the Kowanas. So, uh um I just
12:35 want to say this. This is it's it took me by surprise to see her missing. I'm I'mma truly miss her. And I
12:43 invite anyone um that whose life she touched base makes you to come up if you're willing and join me in this picture down below. Okay. I see some of
12:50 the students. I know a few of them out there that she taught and one young man I know he's here probably first second time I ever seen him in the council
12:58 chamber. So, I'm I'm figuring that's why he may be here. Mr. Abraham. So please if you all want to come down
13:20 Thank you so much.
13:32 Yes. How about that?
13:46 Stay away. I'll take 10 more.
14:02 Okay, I'll come up here. Thank you again.
14:24 Wow. I I I can't go without saying thank you um for recognizing all the years of service um to Tony. Um I I'm Renee Ward.
14:34 I'm not Tony. Um, for those of you that in the room that um maybe not knew her, um Tony um was also my high school
14:43 English teacher, 12th grade and my next door neighbor for over 40 years and uh a
14:49 very dear friend. So I I thank you for um bestowing this honor on her and the
14:56 family wishes to deeply express their appreciation for this honor and recognizing her for all of her years to
15:03 this community. Um, Clermont was Tony's favorite place on this earth.
15:09 She would rather be in Clermont than anywhere else, primarily because of the people. Um, but she lived here for over
15:17 60 years or close to 60 years and um just really cherished this community through all of the things she did from
15:24 an educator to community services. So, thank you. this is um she would be welld deserved and I know that the city
15:32 council is going to miss seeing her sitting on the front row next to deer. So um thank you very much. Thank you.
15:45 You're right. We I am going to miss her looking out and seeing her sit there in that front row at every council meeting.
15:50 Uh, and by the way, on Saturday at 1:00 at the Living Hope Church across the street, there will be a memorial service
15:58 for Miss Bell if you care to attend that at 1:00 on Saturday uh at Living Hope Church. Again,
16:07 thank you. Uh, this afternoon we have three presentation. The first presentation is the employee of the quarter.
16:16 Good afternoon, Mayor and Council. So today we're going to recognize the employee of the quarter for the months of April through June, which highlights our public services department and our
16:25 heroes from public services. So the winner of the employee of the quarter for April to June is Mr. Steve King.
16:32 Steve goes above and beyond to keep the Oakhill Cemetery in pristine condition and his colleagues believe he represents the city of Clermont in an exceptional
16:40 way. A quote from Steve's nomination that we can all strive for is that he shows exceptional empathy by patiently assisting families in their most
16:49 sensitive times, helping them pick out plots and consistently receiving feedback as the most professional person
16:57 they've ever met with during difficult times. Congratulations, Steve, for being the employee of the quarter for public services.
17:04 Thank
17:23 I was thinking the same thing. Come on.
18:14 that Steve, that is a welldeserved uh recognition there for all the work you do over there at cemetery. Of course, I go past that cemetery, I don't know how
18:22 many times a day because I live right up the road from it. And and one of the things I get most compliments on in the city is is the how wellmaintained it is
18:30 and the care and concern you give. Even when people come out there looking um at plots and everything, the time you take with them and and just explain
18:39 everything to them, they uh they constantly uh come in and tell me about the um the pride you take in the cemetery. So, it's welld deserved. Thank
18:47 you. Uh second presentation is the quarterly budget report. Yes, sir.
19:13 Thank you, mayor, city council. Scott Bore, finance director, and thanks for this opportunity to present to you third quarter budget report for fiscal year 2526.
19:23 Um, let me also take a quick moment to thank the accounting team and the finance department for their uh, timely work and due diligence and of course
19:30 that of their colleagues in the other departments. Uh, we appreciate their efforts and making this available for us this evening. Uh, reminder to the public
19:40 this report in a dynamic format is available on the city's website through any of the finance department links and
19:48 uh, have drill down capability to uh, see additional detail. I'll go through this report fairly quickly, but of course be glad to answer any questions
19:55 that you may have. Uh report starts with an executive summary, which I'm going to bypass by and large. A lot of my talking
20:02 points will cover what's in there. Um and I'll start with a citywide presentation of revenues and expenditures. Uh beginning in the middle
20:12 column, this fiscal year 26 year-to- date actuals. Again, this is all funds across the city. our revenues at the end
20:18 of the third quarter, $19.9 million received. Uh over $88.9 million in
20:26 expenditures. Uh both are about $9 million below where we were at the same point last year and well below budget in
20:34 both cases as well. Um largely because of capital spending and I'll speak into a little bit more detail on that. Uh beginning with our next uh table. Uh
20:43 this is the same presentation type but specific to revenues uh by fund types across the entire city. Now I have a percentage in the lower right hand
20:51 corner. You'll see that $109 million equates to 74% of our budgeted revenues
20:57 for the year. Um year to date the uh if you go to the top you'll see in the
21:04 general fund we're at 83% over 75 which obviously is a good sign. And uh within the uh enterprise funds we are also above 75% at 79%.
21:16 Um couple notes on those. The uh gen in the general fund I'll save that comment for a few moments. But in the enterprise
21:23 funds the impact fee collections during the third quarter were extremely strong.
21:27 Uh so much so that we've already uh surpassed our um budgeted total for the year by the end of the third quarter for impact fees in both the water and sewer
21:36 funds. Um so obviously a good sign and uh side note we've actually received our first couple transactions for impact
21:43 fees on sanitation. So that process is in place and has started already as well. Um one of the the outlier on this
21:52 data table though is that 1% uh collections in capital projects and expenditures fund. And the reason for that is a specific capital project that
22:00 was budgeted that we've not moved forward on this year. Uh that being the the garage it was a budget neutral item.
22:07 So we haven't received the bond proceeds we anticipated and conversely we have not receive uh spent any money for that project as well. So it creates an
22:15 outliner within these projects. But if you take out that anticipated uh debt issuance that 74% now is above 80%. So
22:23 our revenue collections citywide have been very good year to date.
22:29 Staying on a city-wide basis all fund types. This now is expenditures. uh lower right hand corner you'll see we
22:37 spent 52% of budget across all funds and um um the the major reason again is is
22:45 not just the parking garage but capital spending in general. Um across all funds our capital budgets was at 51.7 million
22:54 adopted. At this point, we can make some reasonable projections as to where we'll be at the end of the year. And it's looking like we're only going to spend
23:02 about 20, maybe slightly below 20 million of that. So, that's $31 million uh that's included on the expenditure side that we don't believe we're going
23:10 to end up spending this year. Um in addition to the parking garage, that's projects such as Meet in the Middle, the Heartwood Marsh, uh road expansion, uh
23:18 which have been deferred until, uh next year or a later time.
23:26 Okay, now we move into the uh specific to the general fund and this first data table in the general fund uh again is uh
23:34 all revenues over expenditures and you can see at the end of quart quarter three uh in this year-to-ate column uh
23:43 we our revenues are at 51.6 million uh slightly about $1.6 million higher than the same point last year. And on the
23:52 expenditure side, we're at $40.2 million, up from about 37.6 this point last year. U so revenues at this point exceed expenses by about 11.4 million.
24:03 Again, in the name of some early projections for end of the year. Um it it appears at this point that the amount
24:11 of money we're going to return to fund balance at the end of the year is going to be north of $4 million.
24:17 Now, four, yes. Um, don't hold me to that, but I think that's going to be I can sit here today that'll be a minimal
24:25 uh number. We got a lot of activity to account for still. And of course, when I stand before you presenting the fourth quarter report in November, we'll have a
24:33 much better idea exactly where that looks, but I wanted to give you at least an initial estimate as we go into wrapping up the budget process for the next fiscal year.
24:45 Next data table is with in terms of uh general fund revenues. Uh again at the bottom you'll see uh year to date we've
24:52 received 83% of our budgeted revenues and up at top you'll see our our primary category general government taxes were
25:00 at 90%. Um included within that is our advorum taxes. uh we're at 94% of our collections for advorum which puts us
25:08 squarely in our historical collections for advorum was still a dispersement or two remaining. So our adorum taxes have
25:15 looked histo in line with our historical averages.
25:19 Um, one thing I wanted to point out on this, it's not readily available, uh, but is in this drill down capability is on the
25:27 intergovernmental revenue line. You'll see year to date, we're at $5.5 million, and that's been boooied by staff's effort with grants this year. Um, our
25:36 grant collections this year in the general fund have been fantastic. And we're pushing the $1 million mark, which is historically high number for the
25:44 general fund. And the best part about it, in my opinion, is it's across all of our activities. Obviously, there's a lot of public safety grant dollars in there
25:51 as well, but our grants manager has has really been knocking it out of the park with FEMA, and we're getting a lot of storm reimbursements from prior years
26:00 coming in this year, and they're they're a little bit more cooperative right now.
26:04 Uh uh don't quote me on that. But uh the the point is that we're getting a lot of grant money in this year and that
26:12 certainly uh is a good thing and helping the general fund.
26:17 And then finally uh in terms of budget numbers, the expenditures on the ex on the expense side the general fund side
26:24 uh we are at uh 60% of our spending to budget in the general fund through the third quarter. And uh if you look at
26:32 that far right column, all of our department groupings are below 75% at the 3/4 mark, which is obviously a good sign. Um to some degree, that's because of our uh diminished capital spending.
26:44 Um but the fact that they're all below 75% including uh public safety at 63% obviously uh is telling that the
26:52 department directors are are managing their budget quite well.
26:58 last report within the quarterly report is just a snapshot of where we are with our fund balances through the third quarter. Um again, this will be much
27:06 more informative and and accurate when we get to the fourth quarter. Um because at that point, the fiscal year end will have our soft close done. Um but again I
27:16 if you look at the top line the general fund it looks like we're going to end the year in the mid to high 20s in terms of our unassigned or unreserved fund
27:24 balance above and beyond what our uh fund balance require uh requirement in our policy is. So fund general fund will
27:33 remain strong uh in a strong position at the end of the fiscal year.
27:37 That prepares my that concludes my prepared remarks. I'll be glad to answer any questions you might have. Okay.
27:44 Anyone have any questions? M.
27:48 Uh, once again, I just want to remind everybody that we did not have our financials in this type of order two years ago. We did not have audited
27:56 financials. We didn't have reconciled financials. And here we are operating at um reconciled financials 45 days at the
28:05 close of each month. And so, Scott, I just want to commend you and the entire finance team. You're doing an amazing job. Um, for those who haven't been
28:12 coming, we finally received our GFOA award again. And I just don't want people to forget that. It's going to become easy to say this is business as usual, and it should be, but it wasn't.
28:22 And so, I applaud you once again, and I'll probably keep doing that as long as I sit up here.
28:27 That's very much appreciated by the entire team. Thank you. Yes, sir.
28:31 Um, Mr. Bor, just one question for clarification on the general fund balance. You said roughly 24 million. Is
28:38 that 24 million total or is that 24 million above the uh percentage that we are required to have set aside?
28:48 That is above the required percentage.
28:50 So the actual total is is higher than that but yeah the unreserved amount uh is in the neighborhood of 35 36 million.
28:58 Just want to make sure I was clear on that. Thank you very much. Of course. Yes ma'am.
29:03 Thank you. And tell your team we said thank you for all that they're doing for our city. We really appreciate that. Thank you. We'll do.
29:11 Yes, sir. Mr. Peterson, I mean, I I did what uh Councilman Strange said. In the past, we've never
29:19 had this kind of accuracy on a timely basis, and I think you've uh accomplished way more than we ever
29:26 expected. And I'm very impressed by by our the the budget the budgets that we have now, 35 million. you know, we're
29:34 like tw we're 25 million ahead above what we ever needed. So, in other words, this is actually taxpayer money that we
29:40 collected from them, but now we we can actually give that back to them by keeping our millage rate low and anticipating of what might happen in the
29:49 event that the uh that the property tax amendment goes through. As you said, we would only be 1.5 short, I think. Is
29:57 that what the statement was on a past conversation?
30:03 I don't recall what my projection We'll take that as a yes.
30:07 What I what I do recall Thank you again for the for the great job you're doing. Thank you.
30:12 Okay. Thank you. Uh uh Miss Scott, as always, and I always tell you, thank you. Um I can still remember two three years ago
30:21 when we we we looked at putting you in this position and we thought about transferring uh changing over the software so we can get the budget to
30:28 this point and everything. Um, we were both a little leerary about it and everything, but um,
30:35 I think our prior city manager made made a great choice when he came to me and thought and told me he we were doing the right thing by putting you in charge of
30:43 finance and everything and you've done a fantastic job and thank you for converting everything. It went a lot quicker than I expected it to. Uh, but
30:50 it's it's great and we can really look and and see what how things are going now. Um, thank you. I need to uh one
30:59 question I had was the requirement now is it 14 million 25% that's 14 million
31:07 25% is what our policy states okay 25% of our operating expenditures in the general fund right
31:15 yeah um in terms of dollar-wise it's around 134 million I recalculated every year based off the audited figures
31:23 okay so so um looking at our upcoming budget and everything that figure could could
31:30 change a little bit too uh based upon our operating expense everything. So right right now we still around the 1314 in reserve.
31:38 Correct. And then that's based off of a calculation of the 25 audit and then um next spring when the 26 audits concluded I'll recalculate that.
31:47 Okay. Okay. I thank and again I I I appreciate all the work you've done and and and all I think
31:55 do making the moves and finance that we did a couple years ago is is really playing tremendous dividend for the city. So thank you. That's all I have.
32:03 Anyone else have anything?
32:10 Thank you. You're trying to get out of there.
32:19 That would be the wrong date, wouldn't it? Is it ready anyway? We're good.
32:23 Okay. And the third presentation is the park parking garage update.
32:41 You good, sir?
32:47 Oh, okay. Uh Nathan Norris, director of economic development. Just to give you a quick update of uh what the parking uh
32:54 garage committee has been up to. Um as a reminder, uh we started with nine committee members. We now have eight committee members. We've had uh we've
33:03 met over the last two weeks. Um and uh I want to thank Zayell who's helped manage
33:09 uh this process along with me. Um those meetings were uh designed to essentially
33:17 uh provide an overview of what their tasks were and to start talking about the individual details that uh might go
33:24 into identifying the different concept plans that will be developed for both of the proposed uh uh parking garage sites.
33:32 Um we've provided them with previous studies. We've uh had them discuss various things. Um earlier this week we
33:39 met with the uh um the architecture firm that's going to assist and engineering firm as well that's going to assist in creating those uh concept plans for us.
33:49 That's a a group called CPH led by John Linty and we met with him and his team
33:56 um uh through a video conference on Tuesday. No, not on Tuesday, yesterday.
34:03 Days are flowing together. We met with them uh yesterday uh for a long period of time to talk about the the process.
34:10 They modified their their um their schedule to fit our schedule. Our schedule is to provide you with the
34:18 proposed concept plans no later than the 22nd of September. So it's a short time frame, but they were willing to assemble
34:26 everything in a way that uh um they could get the job done. Um we have been meeting on Thursday afternoons at three
34:34 o'clock here. Um we'll have our third meeting uh later this week where we're going to take a lot of the things that
34:41 have been discussed so far and try to prioritize uh their what they think is most important um to give sort of the final
34:50 feedback to the uh consulting firms so that they can go ahead and uh get to uh get busy coming up with the alternative
34:57 plans. They're going to be coming up with at least three different concept plans for each of the sites and that's
35:05 generally where we are right now. Do you have any specific questions? Anybody have any questions?
35:13 All right. Thank you. Thank you.
35:22 Okay. The next item is public comment.
35:25 Excuse me. If you wish to address the council in person, please come to the microphone and state your name and address. Once in-person comments have concluded, we will move on to virtual
35:34 comments. If you are participating online on Microsoft Teams and wish to provide comments, please raise your hand
35:41 and you will be called upon to unmute your microphone when it is your turn to speak. If you are participating by phone, you will press star five on your
35:49 phone to raise your hand. When called upon, you will press star six to unmute your microphone. All for all virtual
35:58 participants, if you wish to comment on other items on the agenda, please stay on the Microsoft Teams or on your phone and raise your
36:06 hand when your item come up on the agenda. This portion of the meeting is only for items that are not on the agenda. This portion of the meeting is
36:15 only for items that are not on the agenda. In the interest of time, efficiency and ensuring everyone who wishes to address the council given the opportunity to do so, each speaker will
36:23 be permitted three minutes to address the council to avoid disruption of the meeting. Speakers should avoid inappropriate language, personal attack,
36:31 and derogatory statements and direct comments to the city council. Everyone request to be respectful even when we disagree. Yes, sir.
36:52 Good afternoon, city council.
36:55 My name is Robert Mock. I live at 270 Division Street in Clermont. I'm here today to voice my opinion
37:04 and it's to talk about the parking garage.
37:08 Considering the locations that been being talked about the new parking garage, the one proposed location uh in
37:16 the existing dirt parking lot, there's a lot of uh right directly in front of a lot of several businesses. I want to be
37:24 clear, I'm support of long-term solutions to downtown parking needs, but I understand the firsthand we need to
37:32 make make that more parking. But where we build it matters.
37:38 Building a large parking garage in this particular location could mean significant construction disruption, temporary loss of parking
37:47 that customers currently depend on, reduce the access and visibility to the surrounding businesses and very
37:54 financial strain on the small businesses located along this part of downtown. It would permanently change the character
38:02 of this area and open view towards the lake that makes this part of downtown so special.
38:11 We're going to be sacrificing the charm, the views, local businesses, and a sense of community that makes this city special.
38:24 We need to protect the small businesses that have invested in downtown Clermont. It is about preserving the
38:32 character and of our downtown and lakefront.
38:36 It is about making sure that Clermont continues to grow, that we don't lose the very things that make people want to
38:44 live here and uh and make it advertising for small businesses to come to Clermont.
38:53 I believe that the other uh one of the proposals to build a parking garage
39:01 right out here behind the city hall and the park would be an ideal place and that any considerations where the
39:09 garage is parked that this area needs be uh have weighted concern uh
39:17 and u deserves a thoughtful uh consideration.
39:22 Um, so let's I want to make my voice heard. Thank you for your time.
39:30 Thank you. Thank you, Chief. Yes, ma'am.
39:44 Valerie Shuitt, 931 West Montra Street.
39:47 Um, first of all, rest in peace, Dolly Parton. I don't know if you all saw that. Yeah, I just saw that.
39:55 Just had to acknowledge that.
39:58 Yeah, everybody loves Dolly, but um that's agreeable. I'm going to be a little bit disagreeable now. Um I don't
40:05 know if you all have walked the waterfront lately, uh near the boat house area between Victory Point and the
40:13 boat house specifically, but if you did, you'd see some of these things.
40:23 This is a swale um storm water runoff from the lumberyard apartments there
40:30 that runs the full stretch of trail and terminates on this beautiful vista
40:39 overlooking the water. Um what is that? H what what is that? I think it's storm water infrastructure.
40:48 for the lumber yard right on the boat house. Actually, also, can someone tell me what that is?
40:57 I think it's called a poop tank. It's called a what now?
41:04 Just kidding. I knew what that was. I wanted to hear somebody say it. you.
41:12 Um, so I believe that our lakes in Clermont are our greatest natural assets. It's a huge part of our charm
41:21 and we also have very little public access to our lakes. Um, and this here
41:27 is on public land um, right in front of the lakefront. Um, this I think there's a residential house right behind the
41:35 poop tank to put it in Miss Strange's words. Um, and this is precious, precious land. But
41:42 I am not here to blame or try to step on anybody's toes. That's the last thing I want to do. But what I do care about is
41:50 that we do something to beautify this. I think this is these look pretty permanent to me. Um, this is a decision
41:58 that has been made. Um, but what can we do now to beautify this stretch of our waterfront is very, I think, important to me. And I have a couple ideas.
42:10 And there might be better ideas out there, but this swale, um, it could have maybe been a bioail. It's not, but what
42:17 if we made it look like a bioail? And it was that's where there's more vegetation and plants that help filter the water.
42:24 Um, my understanding is this is just a standard conveyance soil. Um,
42:31 but what if we planted native Florida wild flowers all in the bottom of this and just went chaos garden style and did some beautiful landscaping around it?
42:40 The last thing I want to see, I don't know where this is going, but the last thing I would want to see is some kind of fence or something like that around there. Um, and then the same thing for
42:50 the this infrastructure here. I think right now a black chain link fence is being put up around it. That's not going to do
42:58 much to beautify this. So, I don't know if we could get something taller with some vines or greenery growing here or if we could make it a feature with um
43:07 some panels that the South Lake Art League does some art or a mural on. What can we do? That's my question. Um I'm
43:15 happy to help and support ideas. I want to see solutions for this. Um but I would love to see us do something beautiful. um in both of these spaces
43:23 and take this featured space and try to make these things a feature instead of some failed attempts at hiding them with a fence or builder grade landscaping.
43:33 That's all I'll say. Thank you.
43:34 Thank you, Valerie. Can we get those a copy of those pictures, please, for the record?
43:46 Thank you. Can I have that camera, please? Can I have that camera for me?
43:53 Okay.
44:08 So I can see
44:19 I know. All right. Uh good afternoon. My name is Sarah Joe. I'm a Clermont resident. I am a nurse. I currently work as a nursing instructor for Lake Sumpter. I'm a mom of three. That's two
44:27 of my kids in the back. If I look a little bit disheveled, it's because uh they changed pickup and I had to sprint to school and sprint back before I missed public comment. I'm here today to
44:34 talk to you guys about. It's a designer drug that is currently being sold in 12 different smoke shops in Clermont as well as 11 gas stations. Um it is otherwise known as gas station heroin.
44:45 So, I want to talk about this packet that I prepared for you and then I brought some items to show and tell. Um, so here is a drug fact sheet from is based off of a leaf that is grown in
44:53 Indonesia. Um, it has been used for thousands of years, but you cannot think of this as any kind of natural product because it has been processed and turned
45:01 into a synthetic form. It works on the same part of your brain that narcotics do. So it does cause overdoses per the Tampa Bay Times report, which is the second sheet that you can see there.
45:11 This is part one of the Tampa Bay Times expose onratom that was produced about two and a half years ago. It's been linked to at least 500 overdose deaths
45:18 including 50 uh that were cratom exclusively. Um it's very dangerous.
45:23 It's very addictive. Um and it's all over the place and we need to do something about it. So the third piece of information that I provided for you is a Sarasota County ordinance where they are um banning all designer drugs.
45:34 So not only but synthetic bath salts as well as synthetic cannabonoids like spice. Um so's been around for a long
45:42 time and it's kind of always been in the background. Unfortunately, now that the opioid epidemic has kind of calmed down and there's kiter restrictions, people
45:49 are turning toratom when they can't get their prescription pills anymore. Um, and like I said, it does cause overdoses and it also causes seizures. Um, it's
45:57 deadly. So, I want to talk about some of the products that you can purchase. So, um, I mentioned this previously. This is free. Oh, sorry. This is synthetic novelty urine. You can use it to pass a
46:05 drug test. I talked to an addictions nurse that I know and she says it does work. So, people use this product to bypass drug screenings for their employment. Um, this is a meth pipe.
46:13 purchased that. Um, and then this is a THC drink. This was purchased from Circle K. Um, you can get high off of this. It is less than the legal limit.
46:21 This is a cratom drink. It doesn't even tell you how much cratom is in it. But the last piece I really want to highlight with my last minute here is there's no no safe known amount of
46:30 cratum. Researchers at UF say no more than 40 milligrams per day. Um, do you want to know how much is in each one of
46:36 these pills? It's four times. So, this is 16 times the known safe dose. A 2-year-old overdose. I mentioned that last meeting. A 2-year-old overdosed on
46:45 two and a half pills. I guarantee you it was something like this and died. Um, see how small it is? It's smaller than my fingernail. And so, I want us to pass
46:53 a uh ordinance that bans the sale of designer drugs. We don't need it. It's not a freedom issue. Um, we are allowing
47:01 drug dealers, legal drug dealers, to profit off the suffering of people in our community, and it's disgusting and we need to do something about it. Um,
47:08 and so I would love to speak to you guys further on this. I'd love to um review this ordinance with you, but I will be here again at the next meeting to
47:16 discuss this because until we do something, I'm tired of seeing people die from drugs. Um and we need to do something about it. So, thank you very much.
47:23 Thank you.
47:26 Uh Miss Mr. Van Wagner, I know we don't have any workshop
47:34 scheduled any soon. Well, I assume can we do a workshop with with her to go over some of this stuff and we
47:42 need to have make sure Mr. W is there as well because I think I heard a request about uh passing ordinance and everything and I don't know what kind of
47:50 ordinance we can pass of course that we can. So that's why I figure we need a maybe a workshop with legal and everybody to sit down and talk with us
47:57 what we can and cannot do please because uh I think state regulates all that right? It does and there are statutes on
48:06 the books about this subject. Now, it's my understanding that Sarasota's ordinance predated the state regulation.
48:13 Um there's a real question as to whether it's exempted to the state. Okay.
48:17 Or preempt I'm sorry, preempted to the state and whether we can, but I can look into that.
48:22 Yeah, please. And but I would like to as soon as we can try to come up with some kind or we can sit.
48:28 We could do it in October. That's realistic. We have a scheduled workshop for October 20th if that's agreeable to Okay.
48:36 Is that okay with me? Is it is that it's our scheduled date, but is that okay for that subject matter?
48:44 That's what Okay. All right. All right. Thank you.
48:51 Yes, sir.
48:53 I am Farmer Banks Helf. I live in the Clay Road District. Farm tip of the day.
48:58 It is time to put the fall crops into the ground. Um, and the best things to grow now are things under the ground.
49:05 Carrots and onions, uh, rudabagga, um, turnups. Turnups do real well. Uh,
49:12 radishes as well. Also, your brachius or your cruciferous vegetables, which are your broccoli, cauliflowers, cabbages,
49:20 um, kales, Brussels sprouts, and then any type of lettuce um, will grow really well right now. Mayor, Council, distinguished guests.
49:38 We are in the harvest season. November 3rd, we have a harvest in our country. We get to choose as citizens our next two years where we go.
49:50 We get to choose our state representatives, our congressmen and women, our senators, even some of you on
49:58 the dis are up for election. We get to choose you as someone who harvests as a farmer.
50:08 The individuals, the citizens out here get to choose you. And this is the the least that we can do as citizens.
50:18 uh because in this country that we live in in this republic democracy it only works if we participate. So I encourage
50:27 not only all of you but all of you listening to me right now to participate to vote to decide where we go for the
50:35 next two years. Above that we can also do more. We can write letters to the editor. We can stand up in front of you
50:43 all and speak from the heart. maybe share a farm tip or two. Beyond that, we can even do something more. We can join
50:51 a party. We can join a caucus. We can join a group to push an agenda forward.
50:58 And then ultimately, there are some of us and many of you on the dis are are in that group where we want to
51:05 serve the community. We want to serve others.
51:09 We want to be at that table with the most amount of resources to help the most amount of people. And I am that such person as well.
51:21 On a on a note to the side, I have a very short time. Um I'd like to add and that is as flidians,
51:29 this is our water. This is our electrical grid. This is our natural
51:37 soundsscapes. Before we give up any of these precious resources, let's do our due diligence.
51:46 I am not saying no. I am saying not now.
51:50 I support and stand in front of you in support of a oneyear moratorum on data centers. May you all be blessed. Thank
51:59 you for allowing me to speak. Kind of the way you put that in at the end. E. Okay. Got you. Know what's on agenda.
52:08 Thank you, sir. Yes, sir.
52:25 Good afternoon, city council. My name is Vincent Neim. I'm here to speak at my on behalf of myself and an advocate for Hartwood Marsh Road and South Clermont.
52:34 For nearly 10 years, the citizens cried out to the city council and raised their concerns about the serious traffic hazards at Hartwood Marsh and Anc Road.
52:45 Today, the situation has become more than an inconvenience. It is now a major safety concern affecting at least 14,
52:54 that's right, 14 new communities along Hartwood Marsh Road from 27 all the way
53:01 down to the Orange County line. And that's also affecting thousands of residents, the private homes, and so on.
53:08 The photographs that I'll be showing were taken within 24 hours, some yesterday, some this morning, so they're current so you could get a firm grip.
53:18 And just to show how serious this problem is, during the Imagine School dismissal, dismissal, 20 minutes, this
53:25 picture was taken 20 minutes before dismissal.
53:30 road was backed up all the way to the arts and recck center on 27.
53:37 Okay. So, explain to us that we cried and cried to the council and to the
53:44 county. Okay. You sit in the chair, you say, "Well, it's a county road." That's no problem. This is not a county road problem no more. This is a Clermont
53:53 road problem. Okay? I'm not here to just point fingers. I'm here to show you a solution. You see that white car? That
54:02 white car has its blinker on going to the left. So no matter what that poor traffic police officer on the top is doing, that traffic's not going to move.
54:11 The people at the light are not going to move for gridlock.
54:15 Okay, here's your solution. Your solution is as follows. You see where the arrows pointing blockade? Put a
54:23 police officer there and keep the flow of traffic moving. If the cards don't want to move, then incite them for a
54:30 ticket. Okay, it's very simple. We used to have two officers there. We only have one poor officer all the way on the top
54:38 of the hill. You know the expression, when the cat's away, the mice will play.
54:43 Well, that's what they're doing. Okay, we cried about this for over 10 years.
54:48 In 2024, we came here with close to 300 residents complaining. It's not the development,
54:57 it's the unsmart development. Okay. But we lost because there was a commercial
55:04 building that was going to be put on a certain property right at that location.
55:09 We lost through a 3 to2 vote. It was very simple. Mayor Murry, you were on the council and you voted in favor for this building. So did Michael Gonzalez.
55:18 So did she was here before, Michelle Pines. Okay. The only two people that opposed it is the city council member
55:25 right there next to you, which is Shanja. Miss Mr.
55:30 You gave everybody else a minute. I would respectfully get Please keep to a point. And no, no politics. I am going I'm not getting no politics.
55:37 You should have told that to Mr. Banks when he came up here. Plain and simple.
55:42 I'll play word games with you if you want to play. Please don't think this is a county issue. This is our issue. But here's the bigger problem, your honor.
55:50 That's why we're in a more of an uproar.
55:54 See, you don't go down to South Clermont, but we live there. This sign was put up yesterday.
56:01 Starting September 7th, Hancock is going to be closed. Now, why is that a concern? I'm going to show you
56:10 the concern. Back to this picture. You see the construction right here? That's going to affect Hartwood Marsh Road.
56:18 Where are these cars going to go to pick up their kids? Nobody thought about that. And here's another problem. You're going to close Hancock Road.
56:26 That's against the law. I spoke to the fire chief yesterday. Fire chief says that's pro that's going to be a major
56:33 problem. They didn't confirm with us to close it. It seems like Lenol, who hired another contractor, thinks that they
56:39 could just close roads. You cannot close a road with two major communities that have egress exit to come in and out. Now
56:48 you're putting our safety at risks. If we can't get up the road this way, how are we going to get in a road on a
56:57 closed road? We're very upset about this. South Clermont is really upset.
57:04 This is going on for too much. We gave you solutions. It seems like it's falling on certain deaf ears. 10 years is enough.
57:13 Wrap it up in the ninth 302nd, please.
57:15 I actually would like to make a motion to address this item.
57:19 Well, Miss Miss Miss Strange. Miss Strange, hold on. Let me let him finish and uh I I'm want to address it as well.
57:25 So, give him 30 seconds. Finish up. Clock is running, sir.
57:31 Oh, I know it is. And I'm just about wrapped up. I must say, Miss Strange, I reached out to certain council members
57:40 and she is telling us she's looking into it. So is off uh Councilman Peterson and so is
57:50 Councilwoman Meyers. I didn't reach out to uh Councilman Baines yet, but I was planning to do on later on this evening.
58:01 So please, it's a concern with the citizens. This is a city. Safety has it.
58:10 Find it in your heart to help us. Thank you. God bless. Thank you.
58:16 Keep it political. She's told that to banks, miss Mr.
58:23 Van Wagner. Hancock closing. First I heard of it. Why is it I'm gonna get a call into Lane and try
58:31 to get the details. I don't know. I don't know all these details. Some of these I'm just hearing about. So, I'll get with Lane and try to figure out what's going on.
58:40 Okay. Okay. First, I move I move to add this item to the agenda as the first item after consent so that we can discuss it as a council. I second.
58:48 Yeah. Okay. Call for a vote. Yes. Mayor, I just wanted to speak into this.
58:54 Uh, this matter was brought to my attention yesterday. uh had conversation with my fire marshal.
58:59 We we just added this to the consent agenda. Uh um at the end of you say at the end of the consent after consent as the first we'll talk about it. Okay. Thank you.
59:11 Yes, sir. I think there was a motion and a second. We have to vote on it. Yeah. Approval.
59:18 Okay. I have a motion and a second. Go ahead and add this in after the consent agenda. Any further discussion? No.
59:24 Hearing none. All in favor known by saying I. I all oppose and chair will I as well. So we would take up that matter after the
59:31 end of the consent agenda. Thank Yes sir.
59:33 Good afternoon. I'm Chris Weiss 2128 Grafton Aav Clermont Florida. Got a question and a concern and hopefully
59:41 could do something about it. On April 15th of this year there was a um
59:48 attachment F of city council or city of Clermont back in a plan that's going to be on St. or it's John Lakes Road, a new
59:57 faith community that's going on that road. We are addressing this also with the uh county. When they answered the
1:00:04 county's information, which I think maybe maybe it helped you approve this or not to oppose it, they stated that
1:00:12 Hancock Road will be widened this year in 2026. Does anybody know about that?
1:00:18 It is not being widened. The only project that was approved by uh by the county was handc or it was Hartman Mart
1:00:25 Road from 27 about a mile and a half down. Period. Right.
1:00:31 They want to put in a faith community there and we're talking about traffic once they open up the Hancock Road down
1:00:39 the Wellness Way. Instead of the people going over the 27 back up the Harman March and then down, it's going to be a shot straight from Wellness Way all the
1:00:47 way up to 50. adding more traffic to that road, right?
1:00:51 And talking to Jeff Hehart back in March, he stated that Hancock Road more than likely will not be widen for
1:00:58 another 10 to 20 years. If that's the case, if that's the case, we should not allow them. They'll build that faith
1:01:06 community there. That road's going to be packed from one end to the other end at all times with no widing of the road. I
1:01:14 would ask you to look over that attachment F that was it was we were not opposing the con the construction of
1:01:22 this new site down there. I would recommend you stop that project right now before it really becomes a detriment to this community.
1:01:31 Thank you very much. Thank you sir.
1:01:39 Mr. Van Wagner. I think that is under the county.
1:01:43 Uh what he referring to on the corner of uh John Lake Road and uh Hancock.
1:01:51 I think that's up in the county right now. And I know we've always asked county to send everything back down to us and take let us take a look at it before they approve everything. So can
1:01:59 you make sure they do that? Please make let it come to us before they fin do the final approval on that.
1:02:04 I will I will make the request. Yes, sir.
1:02:07 Thank you. Even though we I mean we can say no to them all we want, but they still have the last authority and and uh I think it's already um building in
1:02:16 there that they worship out of anyway, but they want to do more there, but I know it's up in the county right now. Okay. Thank you.
1:02:24 Yes, ma'am.
1:02:26 Good afternoon, Mayor, members of the council. Paula Hoisington, 564 East Dotto Street, 7 years, 6 months, and 24
1:02:35 days. A casual conversation was held at the waterfront park on the closing of a
1:02:41 school in Lincoln Park. Our concern was what are they going to do with that property? We came to the council to ask
1:02:50 for a community center. We went to the school board and explained our vision.
1:02:57 We went to the board of county commissioners. They supported us and wrote a recognition and support of a community center. We went to the board of education.
1:03:07 We presented in front of the school board and our plight was the school is closing. Please do not leave this vacant
1:03:17 this property vacant because we didn't want to see upgrown grass windows broken. Can we have a vision to do
1:03:25 something? And they listened to us. 7 years, 6 months, and 24 days. On August
1:03:33 14th, the ribbon was cut to open the Lake Tech South campus.
1:03:40 7 years, 6 months, and 24 days. We're prepared to go another seven years if necessary to get a community center in the Lincoln Park area.
1:03:52 One of the gentlemen that spoke from the board of education said he believed in that if you build it, they will come.
1:03:59 Within a week or two of the announcing of this South Lake Tech College, every program is full.
1:04:09 Not a waiting for people to sign up, but every program is full. HVC, culinary,
1:04:16 nursing, paramedics with other workforce designs to come in. The Lake Lincoln
1:04:24 Park Education Center was also a part of the vision. A unique opportunity for students who do currently work to go to
1:04:31 school at alternate hours to where they can still maintain their jobs and get a high school diploma. The opening of this
1:04:38 vote of this tech college will now allow them to dual enroll. and when they graduate graduate with the certification of a livable workforce job.
1:04:50 This is the city of champions.
1:04:53 The city of champions. That's our slogan. This opportunity will present an opportunity for us to continue to plant
1:05:00 seeds so that we can truly we can truly grow those city those um the city of champions.
1:05:07 12 years ago, people who look like me decided that we needed a high school, a school to educate people of color.
1:05:18 120 years ago, they didn't have the slogan of city of champions, but they believed if we build it, we can develop
1:05:28 champions. We can develop people who can help this city grow. So, I'm coming to you again, and I said it before, and I
1:05:35 I'll just keep coming back until I wear you down, that you find in your heart to have the
1:05:42 vision that you find the dollars necessary to build this community center. There was talk from our
1:05:50 legislators that were there. There was talk from the board of education that was there. It just seems like a perfect spot. As we put the community center, we
1:05:59 can have students, children, and programs being held and taught while their
1:06:06 parents are in the Lake Tech South getting a certification. We have a preschool across the street.
1:06:14 There's the Lake Lincoln Park Education Center. I ask you to have the vision, believe in the slogan, the city of
1:06:23 champions, and help us develop additional champions. Thank you. Thank you.
1:06:34 Anyone else? Anyone else? This is public comment.
1:06:39 Anyone in the chamber wish to address anything that's not on the agenda may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
1:06:46 Anyone else?
1:06:48 Seeing no one else at close public comment in the chamber. We have anyone online, sir? We have one waiting online, sir.
1:06:54 All right. Caller online, please go ahead.
1:07:02 It's still there. Okay.
1:07:12 Caller, go ahead.
1:07:22 Got him. Wayne,
1:07:35 is he on mute or are we having the trouble? Hello. Can you hear me?
1:07:46 Yes, I can hear you now. Yes.
1:07:48 Okay. Okay. The uh it flashed a little message on the screen that I was unmuted, but I wasn't. For the city
1:07:55 clerk, I'm informed that Clermont is using AI surveillance cameras. Our founding father Patrick Henry offers
1:08:02 some insight these 250 years later. He says, "It is a saying known to all intelligent people that government is a
1:08:10 choice of evils. We must choose the lesser evil." In June of this year, the Supreme Court decided a case named Chatry versus the
1:08:18 United States. The court held that Americans have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their location history.
1:08:26 Police need a warrant before obtaining that data, even when it sits with a private company. Automatic license plate
1:08:34 readers like Flock, Vigilant, Axon, and so on create the same continuous location record without a warrant.
1:08:42 Between July, sorry, between January 25 and July of 26, more than 90 jurisdictions canled, declined to renew
1:08:50 or deactivated their AI cameras contracts. cities from Los Angeles to Framingham, Massachusetts, Dne County,
1:08:58 Olympia, Washington, and more than 90 and 90 more walked away. Some contracts cost tens of thousands of dollars a
1:09:06 year. The cumulative rejection signals a nationwide loss of confidence. Right here in Lake County, commissioners ordered nearly 100 unauthorized clocks
1:09:15 removed in 2021 and passed an ordinance banning surveillance devices on county property and right away. That local stand matters.
1:09:25 Meanwhile, police officers have repeatedly abused this system. At least 50 documented cases show police using AI
1:09:33 to stop romantic partners or family members. Outcomes have included force resignations, firings, arrests, and criminal charges for misconduct in
1:09:42 public official alerts are also common. One Los Angeles audit found 160 incorrect hits in just
1:09:51 two months. A 32% error rate. The amount of errors is now so large that the Institute of Justice has created an
1:09:58 online searchable database about it. I'm incredulous.
1:10:03 When a camera misreads a plate, the result is often a high-risisk felony stop at gunpoint. Innocent drivers have
1:10:10 been detained, jailed at lost jobs, or their homes. For example, Lindsay Issacs, a 23-year-old woman, was wrongly
1:10:19 arrested after an AI camera misread her plate, linking her vehicle to a triple fatal I4 hit and run. Florida Highway
1:10:27 Patrol impounded her undamaged vehicle, then arrested her six months later. She spent 13 days in jail without bound,
1:10:35 faced eight felonies, lost her job, and was fully exonerated. She is now suing
1:10:41 Ford six figures. Those mistakes violate the Fourth Amendment because they seize free people without reasonable suspicion.
1:10:51 AI cameras do not merely catch stolen cars. They secretly map who visits a church, a doctor's office, a gun range, a political meeting, or any place where
1:11:00 citizens have a reasonable expectation of privacy. This is not public safety.
1:11:05 This is a permanent surveillance state of our private lives. Council members, the choice of evils is clear.
1:11:13 Choose liberty. Reject or cancel those LPR cameras here in Perma. Thank you for your time.
1:11:21 Thank you. Uh caller, before you hang up, uh I didn't get your name and address.
1:11:27 Hi, my name is Mark Crest, 381 Sky Valley Street, Clermont.
1:11:34 Thank you. You got that trace. Thank you. Next caller. Go ahead.
1:11:41 Yes. Hello. This is Jenny May, 4062 Greystone Drive. Um I'm here today just to ask in regards to any status of the
1:11:49 joint planning um agreement. Um, I was under the understanding based on speaking to a county commissioner that
1:11:58 Clermont is uh currently uh working or negotiating on the JPA, but we never really hear from the council or from
1:12:05 someone in regards to the status of that because it's very important that the citizens need to know about the JPA
1:12:13 especially uh with all this new development and sprawl that's happening around us. Um especially with the the the gentleman that came up in regards to
1:12:22 Hancock. Um you know the JPA we should be as part of the JPA we should be coordinating uh with the
1:12:30 county in regards to the new new roads and public services that come with all this new development. I'm seeing another development that's happening on Hancock
1:12:39 uh which I have not seen any sidewalks or any trails being put in front of it.
1:12:45 So I think that uh you know if someone can let us know uh if you know what the status is, who on staff is working on
1:12:53 it, you know when do they meet um and you know and being a a planning and zoning commissioner I would like to know as well because it would be easy you
1:13:01 know it'd be great for us to even know um if there's an ability to you know attend any of these meetings as well but if anybody can provide us a status
1:13:08 report on that because I understand it's being updated or negotiated. Thank you. Thank you.
1:13:18 Anyone else? That's it, sir.
1:13:19 That's it. Since there's no one else on the uh on the virtual, we will close virtual public comments and we will
1:13:28 close down public comment al together and bring it back to council. Mr. Van Wagner, I can't even remember the last time we
1:13:35 had a meeting on JPS uh JPA um with the county. I can't. Is anyone scheduled anytime soon that you know of?
1:13:45 We've had some discussions with a vendor. Okay.
1:13:48 That they're using to bridge the gap, if you will, but it wasn't a direct conversation with the county. It was and
1:13:56 it was more of a template that we were going through in the discussion. Mhm.
1:14:02 So I would say there needs to be a lot of work done with the JPA, but we did have some conversations initially and
1:14:10 need to have some additional conversations with them about it. And uh there was talk about us allowing them to
1:14:19 have more rights in the green swamp and us having more rights towards Wellness Way. And we had talked to some of the
1:14:26 commissioners about that, but we didn't get an overwhelming sense of support that they were wanting to move forward with that one way or another.
1:14:36 So, but there there was discussion because we we let them know our concerns going on in wellness way that we see it
1:14:44 again and again. So, Mr. Matthysse and I talked with him and I have not seen any unless he knows of a meeting I'd missed
1:14:52 recently when he was in Tar's. That's the extent of we have not heard from him since we had a conversation with him individually.
1:14:59 Yeah, we we have not had any direct we we've talked about it in the managers and mayor's meetings and things like that, but there's been no no meetings
1:15:06 that I'm aware of, Kurt, unless you know of any. I they're working through the East Central Florida Regional Planning Council to kind of bridge that gap with
1:15:14 with the two. But well, I know we used to have kind of like a regular meetings every three three to six months or so. We used to have a meeting, but I can't, like I say,
1:15:22 I can't remember when the last meeting we actually had uh with all the uh county commissioners and and uh mayors
1:15:30 and city managers and everything. What about 3 months ago up in Tavar up in Leburg? Uh, it wasn't really about JPA too much. Okay.
1:15:41 About TDR. About TDR. Yeah, it mostly about TDR.
1:15:44 So, if we can get with the county maybe and see where we stand with JPA. I think uh Groveland completed theirs
1:15:52 and I think um was it Minola was in the process or we still was still in the process of trying to work on ours. So, if we can find out
1:16:00 where we stand with that, if we have to get meetings going again, please please let's get that done. Okay. Thank you.
1:16:07 Uh that were public comment. So before we go any further, are there any changes to the agenda? Mr. Van Wagner?
1:16:18 Item number 17 was a citizen's request from Miss Forth. She's asked to be moved to the end of the agenda after item 21.
1:16:28 Okay. Mr. Mr.
1:16:33 Well, do we need a I I prefer that you do a motion. Okay. Okay.
1:16:39 I'll move to move item 17 after item 21. Second.
1:16:46 I have a motion and a second for to move item number 17 to the end of the agenda after item 21. Any further discussion?
1:16:53 Hear none. All in favor, let it be known by saying I. I. All oppose.
1:16:58 Chair vote I as well. Any other changes, sir? No other changes.
1:17:04 All right. Okay. The next portion of the meeting is the consent agenda, which contain items that have been determined to be routine and non-controversial.
1:17:12 If anyone in the audience wish to address a particular item on the consent agenda, now is the opportunity for you to do so. Additionally, if staff or
1:17:19 members of the city council wish to speak on a consent item, they have the same opportunity. Consent items tonight are items one
1:17:28 through 17. 1 through 12. Okay. Are there any items anyone wish to have pulled?
1:17:38 I would like to have items number seven pulled. Item number seven. Any others?
1:17:47 If we're pulling item number seven, I'd like to pull item number three. Item number three.
1:17:53 Any others?
1:17:58 Um, I want to Well, I want to pull item number 12. Any others?
1:18:09 Seeing no others, I'll entertain a motion for item one, two, four, five, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11.
1:18:18 So moved. Is there a second?
1:18:21 A second. Have a motion and a second for approval of consent agenda item 1 2 4 5 6 8 9 10 and 11 as presented. Any
1:18:30 further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor let it be known by saying I. I. All oppose. And chair eyes as well.
1:18:37 Motion carries 50. Uh item number three. Yes ma'am.
1:18:41 Mr. Mayor, I move to hear item number three after item number seven since item number three incorporates or assumes approval of item number seven.
1:18:50 Okay. Uh, item number seven. Was that you, Mr. Peterson? That's me.
1:18:58 I mean, we've had discussions about the uh, cameras. I'm not prepared to call this system an invasion of privacy based
1:19:06 solely on the information that's in this agenda pack. However, I'm equally unprepared to tell our residents that their movements are protected. The
1:19:13 packet did not clearly explain whether the underlying GPS and vehicle telemetric information is fully autonomized, how the data is aggregated,
1:19:22 how long it is retained, or whether the individual trips could ever be construed or linked to a particular vehicle or driver. If the city receives only
1:19:32 anonymous aggregated roadway statistics, this system is less intrusive than a license plate reader. But an individual
1:19:39 vehicle identifier precise GPS points and timestamps, trip histories remain accessible, then this creates a serious
1:19:48 privacy problem. Before approving this contract, council should require written answers explaining where the data comes
1:19:55 from, whether the motorist consented to its use, or whether any person or vehicle can be identified, and what
1:20:03 contractual protections prevent this data from being retained, shared, sold, or used for another purpose. Until this
1:20:10 protections are clearly written into this contract, I cannot support this proposal.
1:20:16 Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir.
1:20:21 Deputy Chief McMaster, Mayor, Council members, um just want to take a minute and and give you some information to hopefully alleviate your
1:20:29 concerns, sir. And also have when I'm done, if you'll uh allow the two representatives for the company. I think once they speak, you'll have a very good
1:20:38 understanding. Um and it's going to alleviate those fears that you have. Um, currently we rely on temporary monitoring equipment and limited
1:20:45 historical data um to evaluate our traffic conditions. These methods only provide a snapshot of roadway activity
1:20:52 at a specified location in time. This product provides continuous jurisdictionwide
1:21:00 traffic data without the need for additional hardware deployments. What that means is I don't have to have people go out and hang up a box. I don't have to go out and put up a one of our
1:21:09 traffic trailers that would record this information normally. The platform can support traffic enforcement planning,
1:21:16 traffic engineering analysis, roadway safety initiatives, infrastructure planning, and response to citizen complaints through a common data source
1:21:24 shared across the departments, our department as well as public works. for the police department. It'll assist with identifying speeding hotspots,
1:21:32 prioritize enforcement efforts, and measure the effectiveness of traffic safety initiatives for traffic safety initiatives. Now, for public works, the
1:21:40 platform can support traffic calming evaluations, infrastructure prioritization, roadway design decisions, and identification of
1:21:48 high-risk corridors. The product will assist in targeted traffic enforcement efficiency by reducing blind development, excuse me, blind deployment
1:21:57 of personnel, increasing productivity, enhancing our grant reporting through the the FOT grant that we do this year.
1:22:04 We're in our fifth year right now. We've been averaging $20,000 of what they provided each year so far. Um, we will
1:22:12 also be able to provide a quicker uh response to traffic complaints raid by citizens. our report provide speed
1:22:20 percentile uh reporting, historical speed trend analysis and citizen ready PDF reports that we could give to somebody if we so chose. Um it would
1:22:29 also effect, excuse me, assist with um event impact monitoring such as tracking
1:22:36 congestion, blocked uh emergency lanes and roadway closures before, during or after events. So it's it's a historical
1:22:44 software that we can go in. If you remember two meetings ago, there was a gentleman that came came up and expressed concern about Lakeshore Road
1:22:52 or Lakeshore Drive and speeding on Lakeshore Drive. With this program, we could go to anything that was hooked
1:22:59 up to an internet. One of our two operators can log in and they can pull up on a Street Xore Drive from this
1:23:07 block to this block, hit enter, and it's going to spit out for whatever that time period that we wanted. if we wanted it for the last two weeks, if we wanted it
1:23:16 for the last month. That's it. It doesn't tell us the car. It doesn't tell us who it was, anything of that nature.
1:23:24 I'm going to stop there before I get in over my head. And I'd like to, if you will, allow the two representatives from the company come up and explain more, sir.
1:23:48 Thank you, council members, for giving us the time this afternoon.
1:23:51 So, as Deputy Chief McMaster stated, you know, traditionally, I think a lot of agencies have been performing uh traffic studies through manual counts or
1:23:59 temporary equipment deployments like setting out a speed trailer. Um that obviously provides very limited historical data sets. Um and as he outlined, those methods are very
1:24:07 timeconuming and labor intensive and they're only giving a snapshot of traffic conditions at a single location.
1:24:13 Uh this is where a lot of agencies have been partnering with urban SDK to provide access to consistent citywide traffic data. Um so we have a handout in
1:24:20 the folders that we just passed along that outlines uh some of the 50 plus agencies throughout the state of Florida that are partnering uh with us today. Um but across the country we work with more
1:24:29 than 350 agencies in 40 states to provide them with 247 365 visibilities into their roadways through vehicle telematics. So not things like flock
1:24:38 cameras. We don't actually have personally identifiable information on the platform. Uh but we are able to provide this the agency with a clear perspective over the roadway network
1:24:46 with data on speeds, volumes, congestion and roadway characteristics that is anonymous aggregated data. Uh and basically agencies across Florida are
1:24:54 using our platform to speed up their response time to citizen complaints. Uh perform more targeted enforcement, essentially ensuring that they're
1:25:01 deploying resources and officers to the right place at the right time. Uh reduce speeding, serious collisions, address roadway safety issues proactively. Uh
1:25:09 and really it allows agencies, I think, to get ahead of the problem instead of waiting until a public complaint arrives. Um, and agencies have also been
1:25:17 able to use our platform to really start to reduce their reliance on this physical equipment that they use for data collection, uh, and just get faster
1:25:25 information on their roadways, ultimately make more datadriven decisions. Uh, and then last, but certainly not least, uh, this has helped a lot of our law enforcement partners throughout Florida to really streamline
1:25:34 their reporting to city council and improve transparency when responding to constituent concerns on a particular roadway.
1:25:41 Okay. Thank you.
1:25:43 Yeah, and there is a uh a handout as well in those folders that talks through the data privacy concerns um as well as how the platform just leverages anonymous traffic data.
1:25:52 Okay.
1:25:52 Given that there were a series of questions asked, I move that we go through our questions round while the presenter is here and then address our statements afterwards.
1:26:04 Uh well, I would rather open it up for public comment first and then we come back for a question round, please.
1:26:11 Um your partner back there, he just he's saying anything.
1:26:16 He's just just here to help with questions.
1:26:17 Okay. Okay. Just just have question. In that case, I'm going go ahead and open up for public comment. Anyone in the public wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
1:26:28 Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to microphone, state your name and address and have three minutes.
1:26:35 Seeing no one in the chamber, anyone online, sir.
1:26:39 No one online. We're going to close public comment and bring it back. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Miss Strange.
1:26:44 Just point of order. Are we following our rules by rotating? Who goes first? Yeah, I got to go first last time.
1:26:52 Sorry. I'm not trying to be sickler, but I'm just trying to make sure we have the get into the groove of it so that we can provide for our meeting efficiency that we all agreed to try to implement.
1:27:01 Do I support that or what do I do?
1:27:02 Yes. So, so I don't know who's speaking first tonight, what the what the rotation is, but go ahead, Mr. Bay. I'm
1:27:09 happy to. Thank you. Um I just want to clarify this data collected
1:27:16 is is anonymous and is not tied to a specific vehicle
1:27:25 license plate, driver, driver's license, make, model, color of a vehicle.
1:27:34 That's exactly correct. So there's no personally identifiable information on the platform whatsoever. It is all broadly aggregated anonymous traffic data.
1:27:41 Okay. Question for uh our CPD staff, please. Yes, sir.
1:27:50 The data we collect currently from those boxes or the trailers that go out? Yes, sir. Is that anonymous? Yes.
1:27:58 Does that get tied to a specific make, model, or vehicle of a of a car? Uh a person, a driver's license, any other identifiable information? No sir.
1:28:08 And the benefit if I heard correctly from you is that by do by utilizing this system we would if we got a complaint at
1:28:17 this meeting you if we had this in place whoever you have identified one of those two people could go in and say give me
1:28:25 the data for XYZ road for the last one week, two week, two months and we would have it instantaneously as opposed to
1:28:34 deploying the box or the trailer tomorrow and collecting it for one week, two week, two months, whatever.
1:28:42 Okay, that's correct.
1:28:43 Thank you very much, Miss Mars.
1:28:50 Um, you have already taken what my question was about the data which was said in the agenda review. Um, so again, as you said, it helps with congestion.
1:29:00 and it helps with tracking the information of cars speeding through here, but not, oh, this belongs to
1:29:07 Johnny, this belongs to Susie. None of that is on there. Um, so I'm fine with it. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Peterson.
1:29:16 So, basically, you're taking a snapshot of a whole, let's say, all of Clermont from space. Is this where it is? Is it a a satellite based system
1:29:23 essentially? Um, from vehicle telematics. Yeah.
1:29:26 So, basically like all the cellular towers then. So you're getting a a position from that. Is that what it is?
1:29:32 Uh we don't use cell phone or Bluetooth data. We find that you can get, you know, false positives if you have multiple phones within a car or, you know, a pedestrian on a
1:29:41 motorized, you know. So we really just rely strictly on the vehicle telematics, but it's all anonymous traffic data.
1:29:47 Okay. So I mean, basically this is the same thing as when we had the two wires across the road and you were doing a speed.
1:29:54 Exactly. We give them that same readout but at a much faster pace so that they're not having to wait multiple weeks to be able to get an answer on a roadway.
1:30:01 So, so the advantage of this is if they, you know, if we had a complaint on Lakeshore Road and 12, let's just say, then you could give that instant instant
1:30:10 data as opposed to we would have to have somebody come out there and set the wires with some kind of a machine, whatever that might be. So, it would be
1:30:18 a week later. But, I mean, other than that, there would be no other advantages. Correct.
1:30:22 That's correct. It's really just uh time savings and efficiency for the agency and is time saving and I guess that's with the chief.
1:30:31 There's that. But then as I mentioned if public works is going to redo a road or
1:30:39 public or if we're getting a complaint or public works is getting complaint about a specific intersection and there needing to be um traffic control of some
1:30:47 nature there, right? we can pull up that intersection through this program and we'll be able to tell public works, hey,
1:30:55 yes, um through this intersection in the LA yesterday from I if the the complaint
1:31:02 is saying from 10 to 2 there's a whole lot of traffic there, we would be able to pull it up to verify that to say yes, you experienced at this intersection 300
1:31:11 cars in that three-hour time frame or or vice versa, we had 15 cars come through in that that intersection that so it
1:31:19 it's beneficial to not only us but to other departments within the city. Thank you.
1:31:27 The only thing I think of is is this an opening then for a future type of invasion on people's information.
1:31:35 Obviously this is not this is autonom we don't know the cars but it is you know if we go with this then are we saying okay let's open the door to this and
1:31:44 then we're allowing the next thing to come in. So then this data is all stored I imagine. So you must have if you you can go back a week a month and get data.
1:31:54 Is that correct?
1:31:55 We provide the agency with 13 months of historical data so they can go back Yeah. a year to the past. Obviously you're storing all you know it's a
1:32:02 concern I have because you know I people come to me and they don't they feel it's an invasion of their privacy and I
1:32:09 understand that I understand the good parts about it too but it's almost like we just doing this instead of running the two wires across the road but I
1:32:17 understand what the chief said it could do multiple things it could public works could find out information about how many people cross this road etc etc so I
1:32:26 understand both parts of it but it still gives me a little concern Sir, thank you. Thank you, Miss Drainage.
1:32:35 Thank you. I may look down, but my ears are open to you. I just have a lot of notes.
1:32:40 Can you tell me what is vehicle telematics?
1:32:43 It is essentially a chip within vehicles that transmits data up to satellite without any personally identifiable information. So, we can get anonymous
1:32:51 data like the total number of vehicles that were on a roadway and how fast those vehicles were going. But beyond that, we couldn't tell you the plate number, the VIN number, or any information about a particular driver.
1:33:01 Okay. So, there's a picture on page 198 of our packet, page 7 of 12 of your presentation, that shows streets with
1:33:10 colors on them. They appear to range from yellow to pink to purple. Is this what your reports look like?
1:33:17 That's just a visualization that's uh helping show you kind of the heat map that we provide. So when an agency is looking over like the city of Clermont
1:33:24 for example, you can tell just via color coding if there is a speeding issue on a particular roadway.
1:33:31 So with vehicle telematics, how accurate to the foot is the signal to the satellite?
1:33:38 Yeah, so we're generally uh within a 90 to 95% range of accuracy compared to physical ground truth counts. Um, and that's something that actually I think
1:33:46 Captain Draper went out and compared uh three or four different roads to the readouts that he had with his physical equipment to the numbers on our platform and he said it was spot on for those roadways.
1:33:56 Does your technology make it possible to track the chip?
1:34:02 So really just in terms of the uh anonymous data, we can tell you speeds, volumes, but nothing about the individual driver movements. So we can't
1:34:10 break out any individual driver if that makes sense.
1:34:14 It doesn't make sense. Um, it seems like if you can track a chip that's in a vehicle that's moving and
1:34:22 you can track the speed of the vehicle, then if you were so inclined, for example, to not saying you would, I'm talking about the spirit of cane that
1:34:30 Mr. Peterson is referring to that in time it would be possible seems like it's not a far stretch to say
1:34:38 I want to track this car that's currently stopped at this address and see where it goes. Are you telling me that's not possible?
1:34:46 That's not possible with our platform today. Um all the information that we see we receive is like aggregated information. So, not individual drivers,
1:34:54 but rather kind of broken out into buckets like your average speeds, 85th, 95th percentile, but we couldn't tell you what a single driver was doing.
1:35:03 Your company is not capable or the technology doesn't exist.
1:35:06 Um, I'm not sure if the technology exists, but I know that our company is not capable. Um, today or is your company licensed under any sort of federal or state agency?
1:35:16 Is there a license that exists for tracking this data?
1:35:20 I'm not sure. um on a specific license for the data itself, but I know that we are being leveraged by more than 50 other agencies um within the state of
1:35:27 Florida and the Florida Department of Transportation also leverages uh this data as well. So many FDOT districts we partner with.
1:35:34 My question is rooted in how does one in your case your company but let's say
1:35:43 uh you know let's say Mr. Kramer was so inclined to get pull this data from the sky like how does one get access to
1:35:50 these satellites and the data for the vehicle telematics.
1:35:55 So there are I guess data aggregators uh that we partner with to pull from a variety of different sources um together
1:36:03 but by the time it reaches them it is anonymous data essentially. So it's all been scrubbed from individual vehicle manufacturers before it's ever to that point.
1:36:11 It's fascinating. very interesting world we're living in.
1:36:16 Um, so the data to answer Mr. Peterson's first question comes from vehicle telematics associated with a chip in a
1:36:23 vehicle that goes to satellites in the sky and then goes through some third party that wipes the data and you don't have the personal information in your
1:36:30 organization but likely it exists somewhere right I believe it's going to be scrubbed before it reaches that data aggregator but yes by the time it
1:36:38 reaches our organization we don't have any personally identifiable information to your knowledge Mr. Peterson's second question was do the people providing or
1:36:47 when I buy a vehicle am I somehow giving consent for my vehicle chip to be transmitted to these satellites?
1:36:53 Yeah, I believe that is something that's buried in the terms and conditions for most vehicles today. If you're using any kind of navigation system in the vehicle within that built-in infotainment
1:37:02 system, it's just information that's being shared anonymously from that point.
1:37:08 So interesting. And you've said you don't have access to the personal verification but there are specific chips that is a chip like it can
1:37:16 distinguish one chip from another chip right and do you share well this is aggregated so
1:37:25 that the information is already shared I think Mr. Peterson before it gets to us.
1:37:29 Um, how long have you been with the company?
1:37:33 Uh, myself for about 7 months now, but our company uh has been around for about six, seven years.
1:37:38 And in that six or seven years, to your knowledge, has the information that's provided to your 50 different agencies in Florida become more specific during that time?
1:37:46 Um, no, only the data latency has has been improved. Like when our company first started off, we could only provide up-to-date information like a month or
1:37:55 two in the past and now it's gotten much more upto-date with how fast we can provide the information to the agency, but otherwise it's remained the same.
1:38:02 Anonymous speed, volume data, nothing personally identifiable um about the drivers.
1:38:07 Thank you. Um I think I'm finished with you, sir. Um but uh Deputy Chief, my understanding from the packet is that
1:38:14 this funding is being reimbursed from a grant that we have received. This is from our seizure funds. Um, so when we
1:38:23 we have, you know, the we have gentlemen there, gentlemen that are assigned to a DEA task force. So this is drug funds.
1:38:31 What is the funding for the four-year contract will be provided by the federal justice funds grant. That's that is the seizure account.
1:38:39 That's that's the official title for it.
1:38:41 Oh, I'm learning all sorts of new things today. Okay, great. My final question is for Mr. Peterson. Do you feel that your questions have been all satisfactorily answered or do you still have concerns?
1:38:50 I mean, one of the things that was just addressed is that the chip does identify the car. So, but it gets up and then it gets scrubbed. So, you don't know the
1:38:58 car, but somebody knows the car that's moving, right? So, that's what I'm saying. So, if we opening this up, I mean, now that you don't know it, but
1:39:07 somebody is tracking that car then right now, we don't even know who it is. So, you're getting this data from a secondary system and you're like buying
1:39:15 that data from them and they're scrubbing that. They're just giving you the basic information. It's a vehicle, it's a motorcycle, it's whatever and
1:39:23 it's going x amount of miles per hour over a certain geographic place. Is that what I understand?
1:39:31 Yeah. And I believe it would be from the vehicle manufacturers as well, right? So when you sign off on those terms and conditions or you're using the
1:39:38 navigation system in your vehicle that the consumer has already consented now for that manufacturer to share that understand that sure we've gave up our
1:39:46 rights you know after 911 we've given up a lot of our rights but it's the manufacturers that would make sure that it is anonymous.
1:39:53 Well you led me to another question it's for our attorney. Am I getting accurate, legally accurate responses from the from
1:40:03 the company, or is there anything you think I should know knowing me the way you do?
1:40:09 Um, I I I don't know. I mean, I I have no reason to disbelieve the information that's been given. I've identified no
1:40:16 legal issues with the information we've been given. Um, I think it's analogous to all kinds of information transmission that we have and relationships we have.
1:40:26 I mean, if I hear a conversation about a breakup and my wife asks me the questions about what happened, it's going to be scrubbed from interesting information and I won't remember
1:40:34 anything. Um, so it's it it happens and I mean, but really there's when you think about it, there's a lot of
1:40:42 information transmission like this and uh I I'm very comfortable with it with the city. There are some issues with the contract, but we can talk about that.
1:40:52 Okay. I I want to pin that one. I think the last question I had is you said as I understand it that the chip is related
1:40:59 to the navigation system and so um my fear would be if people are driving vehicles without navigation systems are
1:41:06 we going to get incomplete information by relying on this if if the vehicles on the road don't have those systems or
1:41:14 does every chip built since like 1980 have every every vehicle have this?
1:41:19 Yeah. So it's it's around for the last 22 years. So around 2004 to 2006 time frame is when this technology became a lot more ubiquitous. But what we do see
1:41:27 frequently is that even vehicles that or individuals that have a vehicle from the '9s for example, they will typically perform some kind of upgrade on that
1:41:34 vehicle or replace the radio or infotainment system and at that point they more than likely end up with a telematic chip. So we do see pretty broad coverage um from our sample size.
1:41:44 And then again, when we've done data validations or we compare our numbers to an actual physical study, we're within that 90 to 95% accuracy range for them
1:41:53 to be able to make decisions on the information. And motorcycles came up a couple times.
1:41:57 Do motorcycles also have this or scooters like are there is this only cars or motorcycles and scooters?
1:42:04 Yeah, I would say only cars primarily. Yeah. Okay. All right. Those are all my questions.
1:42:13 Okay. Thank you. Thank you all.
1:42:17 Uh Chief, I the these cameras how are they're not cameras?
1:42:25 Well, how easy are they to move around from place to place?
1:42:31 The ones we existing, the ones we have right now.
1:42:33 Well, I know the ones we have right now, we we go out and we man, but these will be permanently these will be permanently installed in in in in
1:42:42 place. We we there's no hardware that we have to deal with, right?
1:42:46 This is literally we're gonna we'll sign into our our login to the system. We'll type in
1:42:54 our password, etc. We're going to type in this location to this location um these dates and hit enter and it's going to spit it up.
1:43:02 Yeah.
1:43:03 So, we're it this is removing us having to go out and put out the boxes or the trailer or the trailers. And you know
1:43:11 there one thing that if we go out and we put up a box of the trailer, we're looking at perfect world 3 weeks. Yeah.
1:43:19 Because we're going to put it out for two weeks so we get an accurate representation. And then by the time we go out, we recover the information. We
1:43:26 come back in, we crunch it, we put it into um a format that could be handed out to be able to understood. We're two and a half to three weeks. And that's if
1:43:34 we there's no issues with that hardware during that two week span while it's while it's recording the information.
1:43:43 Well, I guess I guess I guess what I'm really trying to figure out will all the streets in Climouth be covered? Yes.
1:43:49 Okay. So, we don't have to go out and do nothing and move anything. Okay. No, sir.
1:43:52 That that'll save us a whole lot of time. Of course, you know, I work with you all quite a bit on on the other boxes, the Yes, sir.
1:43:58 unidentified incognito boxes and all those stuff. So, that's my main concern.
1:44:02 So, um, long as we don't have to worry about going out and doing all that, that save a lot of man hours and everything else because I know how much money in
1:44:10 the manh hours is involved in going out and setting up the box and then trying to retrieve them and all. Um, and I think it'd be a great asset to us
1:44:19 because uh, now we can go back when I get all these complaints about uh, speeding through neighborhoods. we can easily go back and look at data now a
1:44:28 lot quicker than going going back and having to wait two or three weeks to try to set up a box and then retrieve it and all. So yes, sir. So I'm I can support it. Thank you.
1:44:37 Yes, sir. Any other?
1:44:44 Yes, sir.
1:44:45 Yeah, I there are just two things I want the council to consider when perhaps uh preparing a motion on this. Um, the
1:44:52 first is the what you have before you is a general proposal. Um, and then it links to the terms and conditions and
1:45:00 I've reviewed them and and by and large they're fine, but there is one thing missing that most of our contracts need to have. We do this on all with our
1:45:07 vendors through procurement is a public records provision. Um, so our vendors are subject to the public
1:45:15 records law to the extent that they have those records. We need to be able to have access to them. And there is a general term that we have that we use on
1:45:23 our contracts and that comes straight from the statute. So it's just something we have to have in there. Right now there's broadly speaks about
1:45:30 confidentiality. We we really don't and won't be able to follow confidentiality to the extent that the public records
1:45:38 law applies. That's number one. Um, number two, there is a provision that limits the liability on both sides to
1:45:45 the value of the contract, which in this case I think is fine. Uh, however, there's also an indemnification
1:45:52 provision. So, I would ask that we ensure clarity that their indemnification obligations um are not
1:46:00 limited by the liability cap if that makes sense.
1:46:04 So, can can you work with them to make sure all these things are in the contract please? you know. So, um what's the out provision?
1:46:13 What what's the out provision? Yeah, termination.
1:46:17 Uh well, the in the termination clause, it's essentially um for cause. I mean, if there if there's a breach of the
1:46:24 agreement, then 30 days notice, otherwise it's four years. Okay. Stand standard out.
1:46:33 No, no standard out.
1:46:35 So, it's a four-year contract with no standard out. Well, we got to out clause in there, right?
1:46:40 There is if there's a breach. Um, and honestly, the services provided are fairly simple and on a lot of our contracts, we do push back on that kind
1:46:48 of provision, but here it's essentially software. So, and it's covered. The cost is covered. So, we're not worried about that.
1:46:57 Okay. Uh, any other question?
1:47:00 I have a question, sir. Um, Mr. city attorney for if we are going to move this uh would moving it with the
1:47:09 following two statements suffice what you brought forward. One move approval with the conditions that
1:47:17 the public records provision terms gets included and two limits uh addresses the
1:47:24 limits of liability and the indemnification provisions that you brought forward. It would satisfy me. Okay.
1:47:31 Yeah. Good. Uh before I ask for a motion, Miss Strange, you said item number three was do you want to go ahead
1:47:38 and vote uh do a motion on this one and before we go to three? Uh yes, I do need to know the outcome of this one so I can determine my vote on three, but we still need our comments.
1:47:49 Okay, go ahead. U Mr. B, thank you. Um, my only comment would just be that I I I recognize the
1:47:57 concern, privacy concerns associated with um, conversations relative to to
1:48:03 technology and recording devices. Um, I think this one doesn't necessarily fall into that same category. Um, this this
1:48:12 is collecting the same data and the same information just in a different way that the the ropes across the road or the
1:48:20 little box on the speed limit sign or the big uh uh trailer that gets put out um at a location um in terms of what we get back from that is is the same data.
1:48:32 And so, uh, the provisions that I like about moving forward with this, if we can include the language that the city attorney brought forward, is that, um,
1:48:41 it would allow us as a resident comes forward at a council meeting to literally that night or the very next day, have the data that we need and if
1:48:49 need be, address that item at the next council meeting rather than waiting a month or two to get to that point to be able to do something. Um, I also
1:48:57 appreciate the fact that it could have public services, public works, um, uh, effects as well in terms of being able
1:49:05 to understand traffic and what to do for planning for our roadways. So, I think with those provisions, I'm comfortable moving forward at this time.
1:49:13 Thank you, Miss Myers.
1:49:16 I echo what um, Council Member Bain said. Um, I'm comfortable moving forward since it does not have identifying u
1:49:24 marks on it and it does help other agencies that are in um our city. Thank you, Mr. Peterson.
1:49:32 Uh, I think, you know, I'm still concerned about the future of this, especially when when you did say that
1:49:39 the chip then does give the vehicle, it gets scrubbed by you, but then what about that gobetween person that has that data? you know I mean right now
1:49:48 it's not available but you know you know software it's constantly changing and it's constantly mutating and uh just
1:49:56 like you had mentioned if you want to track somebody's friend in the future this is a possibility with your company it's not but it's not like you said it's
1:50:05 not now which is the thing that's concerning which means it could be so and that's all I'm concerned with right
1:50:12 now the you know as as a is it foolproof and And then the other thing is why would we even have need liability if it
1:50:20 is foolproof? You know who's going to sue over autonomous information? There's no real person to sue, right? It's not
1:50:29 like you track my car and you said I was going 50, but I was only going 20. You know what I'm saying? And that's what I'm concerned with at this point in time.
1:50:39 I appreciate our attorney looking out for us. Um, it raised some concerns that I have and I wouldn't mind even
1:50:46 tableabling this to give the attorney to look at it. I appreciate the value of this to the police department entirely. And um, so my comments are as follows.
1:50:56 One, we're working on a software audit and having a 4-year contract that we enter while we're working on a software
1:51:03 audit is something that concerns me. So, I would not Can you stop my clock? The chief wants to interrupt.
1:51:14 This will replace my two other softwares that do the same information.
1:51:21 Are we saving money?
1:51:24 Because item number three is a budget amendment.
1:51:28 The the the amounts that I pay would pay next year in the in you know software support for those other two obviously
1:51:37 would come off. I can't tell you off the top of my head what those two different programs would be. So that might go.
1:51:45 So it is it is going I'm it's not like I'm stacking. I'm going going to remove two and replace with this one. It's helpful to know.
1:51:54 Um okay, we can put my clock back on. Um
1:52:02 because we have contractual concerns and because in light of the information that was just shared, I may see if there's a
1:52:10 temperature to table this so that our attorney and our finance office and the police department have time to give us a complete picture on the contractual
1:52:18 issues because one of the things I would not want to do, every other contract the city enters into has a 30-day 90-day out and this one does not. And even though
1:52:27 we can't imagine why we wouldn't want that, when we do want it, we won't have it. And and that's, you know, important.
1:52:33 So I think maybe having time to negotiate those terms of the contract would be helpful to all of the parties.
1:52:39 Um I think to your point, Mr. Peterson, the way I'm receiving your concerns is that collection of data that already exists today, it seems like, well, it's
1:52:46 already out there, but we are paying for this data. And when you pay for a product, what it does is it encourages the continued development of that
1:52:55 product. So if we don't want the government tracking us with satellites then we should not be paying for the information that the satellites provide
1:53:03 us. So I think that that you know which leads me to Joel Salatin's comment never underestimate the collective power of
1:53:11 individual choice. This might be the motion the move that every other city and state in the nation is doing but
1:53:19 individually if we say you know we want to draw a line at this we think small is beautiful. We we don't want to give extra work to the police department, but
1:53:26 we do want our police department to have that personal relationship and be, you know, be local rather than relying on
1:53:33 technology to supervise our people. So, primarily because of the contractual concerns that I have given what has come
1:53:41 up tonight, um I I would I would ask that we consider tableabling this. Um but I continue to have reservations with
1:53:49 the big picture. Um, if we want to vote tonight, I'm going to vote no because of the contractual concerns. If we want to table it or we think we have a majority,
1:53:57 however the rest of you want to handle it. But given what I've heard tonight, I'm going to be voting no on this one.
1:54:04 Okay. Thank you.
1:54:07 Um, yes, I I have no I have no problem with it. I think it'll be a big asset to us.
1:54:14 Uh, you know, I I I can't can't help but sit here and wonder about we worried about being invaded, our privacy being invaded and everything
1:54:22 else. And yet and still, we we got to we carry something around. Every one of us carries something around with us more invasive than anything we ever seen.
1:54:29 Call these cell phones. Okay? And we have no control of who get the data and everything else. This has no way of tracking anyone. So, I have no problem.
1:54:38 We've been using somewhat this technology for years. Uh it's just been more of a manual type thing we've been doing with our boxes and everything. So
1:54:46 if it going to make the thing uh make it our jobs a little bit police department job a little bit easier and be able to give it us data a lot quicker, I'm I'm
1:54:54 still going to support it. Um long as the motion includes uh the statement that Mr. Bang mentioned as law well
1:55:02 conveying what this attorney was afraid of, I can support it. Okay.
1:55:13 Mr. Mayor, I do have a question to kind of get to Council Member Strange's uh comment about tableabling, and this is for the city attorney. Uh if we make the
1:55:22 motion with those two provisions, are there any other contractual concerns that would need to be addressed if we
1:55:31 make the approval contingent upon those two things being included in the final version?
1:55:37 Well, technically there's, you know, under the statutes there's one thing missing, which is the human trafficking part with, in other words, in all our contracts, we have to have vendors
1:55:45 certified they don't use human trafficking, but we're going to do that anyways regardless.
1:55:50 Um, I don't have any other concerns. I would only say that um in response to council member Strange, it is also
1:55:57 possible to move for a um non-cause termination provision as well as part of the motion, you know, for 90 days or
1:56:05 something reasonable if you wanted. I don't know if they'd accept it, but that's something that you could do.
1:56:11 Okay. But those the two items you brought up and potentially the the would you say non-cause provision
1:56:20 uh would if if those three things were talked about in the motion, you're not aware of any other contractual concerns
1:56:27 that that would necessarily require us to table it for the future. Yes. Correct. Okay. Okay.
1:56:35 There are no other questions or concerns. I entertain a motion. No motion.
1:56:46 I mean, based off of what the city attorney's mentioning, I think we might be able to address this without having to table it by by asking or by
1:56:55 essentially moving. So, I'll move to approve with the public records provision term inclusion uh the limits
1:57:03 of liability and indemnification um information inclusion and remind me again what the final term is
1:57:12 the the non-cause non-cause termination termination 90 of 90 days to be included in the final product for approval.
1:57:23 I second.
1:57:24 Okay. Have a motion in a second to approve item number seven with the stated provisions. Uh three provisions I think it was. Okay.
1:57:35 Any further discussion?
1:57:38 Hearing none. All in favor? Let it be known by saying I. I. All oppose. Nay.
1:57:42 And the chair vote I as well. I think I heard you say I. Miss Strange. I said I. Okay. Motion carries four to one. Thank you.
1:57:50 Thank you. Um Okay. Item three.
1:57:56 Uh yeah, I pulled item three because item seven was included in it. Um that was it.
1:58:01 Okay, I would vote for it at this point. Anybody uh Mr. Bain?
1:58:10 This miss uh this is a public hearing. Anybody in public want here? Anybody in the public
1:58:18 wish to address item number three on the send agenda consent agenda may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
1:58:26 Anybody in the chamber would to address this item.
1:58:30 Seeing no one, I close the chamber comment. Uh anyone online? No one online. So bring it back to Mr. Bain.
1:58:38 I have nothing. Miss. Mr. Peterson. Miss Strange. I move to approve item number three.
1:58:46 Second.
1:58:47 Okay, I like that. Easy. So, I don't get a comment. That's good.
1:58:52 You're certainly welcome to comment. I just figured I'd put it out there.
1:58:55 No, I didn't have no comment anyway. So, I'm just saying the procedures. Okay.
1:59:00 Did I have a second? I have a motion to second approve item number three as presented. Any further discussion? No, sir.
1:59:07 All in favor? Let it be known by saying I. I.
1:59:09 All oppose. Chair vote eyes. Motion carries 50. I pull item number 12. I'm a little concerned with this uh this item.
1:59:18 This is about selling piece of property uh city piece of property. Of course, as I've always say, um I look at this I
1:59:26 know some of it should be sold, but I still don't understand why we carve out this one little piece of property out of out of a whole stretch of property
1:59:35 running along along that quarter there uh to surplus it. Okay, that understand.
1:59:40 But the main thing I'm concerned with, Mr. while when I went back and looked through this package over and over and over again last night, I did not see an appraisal.
1:59:50 So, how can we be selling a piece of property without an appraisal?
1:59:56 The the city ultimately um there's no requirement that a city has to have an appraisal um before selling property.
2:00:06 Well, I I can remember the comment you made to me once before when it came up about selling property that we have to make sure uh when we sell a piece of
2:00:15 property, we don't sell at less than appraisal value.
2:00:18 As a best practice, you should try to maximize the value that you get.
2:00:23 So, if we if we don't have appra appraisal, how we know what value that is? You know, when this when I researched this issue, basically what
2:00:31 they say is under home rule, you have discretion over your procedures and what you'll accept for the sale of real
2:00:39 property. And the bidding process uh is acceptable as long as it's properly noticed. So, the issue with this property is really that it's in the I
2:00:48 think it's in the development area 163.380. So, you know, it has to go out in an ad.
2:00:54 It's not in development area. Oh, then then we don't even have to follow that procedure. Um, you're Well, I don't I don't know. Did we Did we put it out in the newspaper?
2:01:05 Yes. Yes.
2:01:06 Yeah. So, we did follow the procedure and an abundance of caution. Um, look, I mean, ultimately, it's your discretion
2:01:14 as to whether you think this is acceptable or not, if the price is acceptable, if the procedure was acceptable. But from a legal perspective, it's not it it's under your
2:01:24 discretion. Well, that's why I'm saying how how can I determine if the price is acceptable when I don't know the value of the property?
2:01:31 You know, some some people believe that um you establish the fair market value of a property by putting out for bid or
2:01:39 auction so to speak and you have one bid in front of you. I but from a look all I can really say is legally I don't have
2:01:47 an objection. So that that's saying basically if I decide I go I wanted you put the building across the street for example for sale I come in and give you a bid of $100,000 basic I'm the only bid
2:01:56 I get to build it even though it may be of bonus value within that if you vote to approve that it would be legal whether it's a good idea or not
2:02:05 whether it's proper stewardship is another question well that is that is what I'm I'm trying
2:02:12 to present ourselves ourselves up to people just walk around here just throwing out bids and uh for a piece of property what they think the property is
2:02:20 worth. Okay. Uh I I truly feel like we need to go back and get an appraisal on this. Um even the bidder maybe I don't
2:02:28 know who who need but to know what the fair market value of this is before we decide to sell this or take the first
2:02:35 thing come to me. Suppose he the bidder had just offered a dollar. You know, it it's in in in real estate. It's it's
2:02:44 like in um it's like corporations. When you have a corporation that's owned by like 10 people and one of 10 people wants to sell their ownership interest,
2:02:53 even though the company might make a lot of money, that onetenth ownership interest isn't onetenth of the company because you still have to deal with nine
2:03:01 other. And so it's it's called a close interest discount when you value it. And it's the same thing kind of with real estate. If I own
2:03:07 a quarter acre and I was going to sell 0.5 .05 of my quarter acre, uh it it
2:03:15 wouldn't be 1/5if of the value of my property because who's going to buy that little garden square on my yard. I'm not
2:03:22 trying to argue. I mean, it's just I think from an legal perspective, this is why it's not objectionable legally.
2:03:28 Whether it's a good idea or not is for you to decide.
2:03:31 Well, I just This is a tiny little piece of problem.
2:03:34 We're not talking about acres. We're talking about something 10 feet maybe by 100 feet and this this way the city has
2:03:43 to maintain this property now. So we're giving it to somebody that will maintain it as part of their property, right? And then the city has how does the city even
2:03:50 have access to this property? Do they have access?
2:03:54 No. the city we own the city pretty much have access and that's the other problem why I don't understand why we carve this out is because if I'm not mistaken we
2:04:02 got utilities that's a easement for the city and we still have to have access to that easement so why are we selling a piece of property that we need that we
2:04:10 have easement on and need access to it and we just carving out this one little piece of property and then we want to sell it without any appraised value. I
2:04:19 have never sold or bought anything in my life without knowing what the value of it is. And I cannot support this if I can't I don't know what the value of the
2:04:27 piece property. I don't care how small it is or how big it is. We I still feel like we need to go back and get an appraisal on public and figure out what it's what all about.
2:04:36 Uh any public comment first?
2:04:39 I'm Yes. Bet. Mr. Bain, you had anything? Okay.
2:04:45 This is a public hearing. Anybody in public wish to address this item may come to the microphone, state your name and address and have three minutes.
2:04:52 Vincent make Regency Hills. Uh I hate to say this, but I do agree with you, your honor. How do you sell something without
2:05:01 knowing what the value is? And that's all I want to say. He goes, we're sitting back there and we're listening to this and we're all shaking our heads.
2:05:08 How do you sell a piece of property because it's not in procedure, not knowing what it's worth? because if you ask me that's not a good answer. Thank you.
2:05:18 Thank you. This is a public hearing.
2:05:20 Anybody in public in the chamber with the address I may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
2:05:40 Good evening.
2:05:41 Good evening. Is this about that little strip in front of my place? Yes, sir.
2:05:49 Address and name, please.
2:05:50 1166 Short Street, 100 ft from your poopers. Okay.
2:06:00 That little strip and you're talking about land.
2:06:07 Not only did they uh try to take 13 ft of my property, but they took all the way down through
2:06:15 the trail and you didn't say a word about that. And you let Pendler put poopers 5 foot on the trail. But you
2:06:23 don't want me to have that piece of property to fix it up to recover from this. That's going to buy you a lot of
2:06:30 trouble. That's what I said. ask you to come down twice.
2:06:36 I ask the rest of you do this.
2:06:41 Let me tear out the rock and the concrete and fix it up, mow it, and take care of it. If you don't,
2:06:50 it's a bad idea. And you treated Pendler better than you treated me. Thank you.
2:06:57 Thank you. This is a public forum. Anyone in the council w chamber would like to address this item may come
2:07:05 to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes. Anyone else?
2:07:11 Anyone else? Seeing no one else a closed chamber public comment portion. Anyone online? No one online. I bring it back to council.
2:07:20 Yes, sir.
2:07:21 Thank you. Uh Mr. Mayor, can I have someone from city staff who can speak to this? I don't know if it's Mr. Van Wagner or um but I have some questions
2:07:29 on if they can put up the picture of the surplus property location.
2:07:39 Yeah.
2:07:45 So just for reference location wise sorry Kurt Hel development services director.
2:07:54 Uh before you is the red area here represents the parcel in question. So you have the trail just to the north of it. Uh this is Mr. Hes that just spoke.
2:08:03 This is his location here. Uh he now currently owns this parcel as well to the south of it. Right.
2:08:09 For if you're looking for more specifics, this is more of the specific actually the other the other one. Yep.
2:08:16 So what what what my question was going to be because I I want to make sure I keep this questions and and not make a statement on it is
2:08:24 just the triangle that's underneath this proposed surplus property the red strip.
2:08:30 Previously this council voted to to approve a surplus sale to Mr. Hess that included that triangle. Correct.
2:08:38 That is correct. And it's my understanding that this strip was an inadvertent
2:08:44 um mistake or car it was inadvertently left out of what was supposed to be
2:08:52 conveyed when we voted to convey the triangle that's underneath the red strip. Is that correct?
2:08:58 That's correct. Yeah. It sits between two fences.
2:09:02 The sit between the uh the lift station fence and Mr. Hess's current fence. Okay. So,
2:09:11 what we're doing here, I guess, for lack of a better phrase, is this a cleanup from what we previously did in terms of
2:09:19 adding this strip into what staff had had intended to include in the surplus sale.
2:09:29 That is correct. Yes.
2:09:30 Okay. All right. Thank you. That's the questions I have so far. Thank you, Miss Mars.
2:09:36 Um, Kurt, do you have a picture where you could like a better picture where you can actually see I think you had showed me at one time of what it
2:09:45 actually looks like instead of just the drawing for people to have a better um view of it. Not actual view other than the survey.
2:09:53 Yeah, other than the survey, like an actual picture. I thought we had an actual picture of it. I don't recall.
2:09:58 Did we have an actual like from the trail view? Yeah, on the trail view. Yeah. possibly.
2:10:06 Oh, you have a Okay. Is there a way we can is there a way they can get that?
2:10:11 Can we have that blown up? Yeah. See, that's really small. I want that for them to see.
2:10:15 Is there any way for them to see that on there? Yeah.
2:10:27 Because I would like everyone to see what this actually looks like because a little drawing doesn't help. I mean, an actual picture, I think, would give
2:10:34 better reference to this um and where it sits at in location. Um, I went out
2:10:40 there and saw it. It It's literally a strip, but you can't do anything with it. So, I think the value is based upon
2:10:49 the person who wants to purchase it. Um, because there's nothing you can do with that. But, I want the public to be able to see what it actually looks like
2:10:56 instead of just a drawing if that's possible, you know.
2:11:00 Yeah. We're going to try to pull it up real quick. Okay. Thank you.
2:11:12 So, I'll see if I can Well, I just want the public to see that to give a better reference. Um, if you want Bill to go.
2:11:19 All right, Mr. Peterson, we come back to Miss Meyers. Back to me. Yes.
2:11:25 I I think I think what uh Curtis said is this is just completion of what our initial per you know give you know give
2:11:34 to uh Mr. H. this isn't like an additional we're making an additional purchase but it was part of the initial agreement and that's what we're just
2:11:41 giving to him and I know like everything has value like uh one of our citizens had said but you know certain things like like our city attorney said you
2:11:50 know maybe it doesn't have any value if it's a kind of if you're selling somebody a sidewalk how much value does it has to the person that has the house right next to it because then he would
2:11:59 want to have that little piece but nobody else in the world would want to have that piece so and I think you know I think we've all looked at the property
2:12:07 and we point of point of order. Is this a is there questions?
2:12:11 This is our questioning piece, not our statement piece.
2:12:13 Okay. So, going back to Kurt, is is this is this an addition is this an additional sale or is this part of the original that we was left out?
2:12:23 Well, this is an additional sale, but it was left out of the original Okay.
2:12:27 concept that we're good passing along. That was my question. Thank you.
2:12:35 I have no questions but would like the opportunity to comment when the time comes.
2:12:39 Okay. Thank you. Uh Kirk, uh to the east and west of that of the of the red piece.
2:12:49 Who owns that? To the west, Mr. Hest. No, the east and west.
2:12:56 East. Well, okay. So, oh, you go to the trail, right? The west side over here. Yeah, that
2:13:03 Mr. Hess owns this section right up here.
2:13:06 Well, his property line where his property line, the black line that's going there along the black where the red is at. Isn't that the end of his property property line?
2:13:13 That's correct. His property line is right here. Well, I'm sorry. He he currently owns this as well.
2:13:19 He's he's on all that to the north to the south. Okay.
2:13:22 But the property actually goes from here goes to the north and then along the trail for Mr. Hess.
2:13:28 It is like if you took this if you took the north black line here and continued it on that that would be Mr. Hess's property.
2:13:37 It does not jog down and then go up. It actually is the on the north side.
2:13:44 It it literally sits between his property and the lift station.
2:13:52 Is that what you're looking for? Uh, council Myers, is this the one you were
2:13:59 referring to? Let me get that a little bit better. Can you zoom? Yeah. Can you zoom?
2:14:06 Yeah. What you see here, this represents the parcel right here between the the lift station in the background and Mr.
2:14:12 Hes property would be towards you as you view that picture.
2:14:18 And Kurt, uh, with the bidding, was there only one person that bid on this piece of property? That's correct. There's one bid, right?
2:14:26 Okay.
2:14:27 Um, thank you. I'll The next part I have is comments, so I'll just wait.
2:14:33 Okay. Again, that's still city property, right? Today, it is city property.
2:14:40 And we do Well, and we do have easements going through there. We will we would maintain an easement.
2:14:48 Yes, we will maintain the easement.
2:14:51 I'm sorry. We would Yes, we make sure we keep we have an easement. Yes, there is a water line that runs through that area.
2:14:58 Water line run. And that's why I guess I'm still confused why when we know we got easement and utilities running through there, why we we would excess it
2:15:05 and try to try to sell it. Uh which can uh create some problem for us in the future. Uh the piece to the to the east
2:15:13 of that that strip to the east along the black line there the red line. You got the red box.
2:15:20 Let's go east right in right in this area here right to there. Who who's on that? That's the city. That's still the city. Yes.
2:15:27 So why aren't we selling that? That's part of the lift station. Huh?
2:15:31 That that piece is actually part of the lift station itself.
2:15:37 There'll be there will be a fence around that. Yeah, we fencing that all in. Okay. Right.
2:15:44 And then Okay. I still disagree with it. Uh I'm I'm done.
2:15:54 Go ahead, Mr. Bang.
2:15:55 Thank you, Mayor. Um, with regard to this parcel, I I I actually hadn't thought about the appraisal
2:16:04 requirement, and I I think it's actually a pretty good idea to include a uh to have a something on the books for the
2:16:11 city to say to require an appraisal. Um, but I I don't I don't think we we should
2:16:18 apply that retroactively to a situation that really this is not a new surplus item. this is a this was intended to be
2:16:27 included and so I don't view this or I guess I view this differently than a brand new surplus item coming before us
2:16:36 that we maybe have never talked about before. Um I think um in my agenda review with uh with staff I
2:16:45 asked is this finally going to conclude the this transaction if you will because I feel like we have at multiple times
2:16:54 had to bring this forward and then bring forward some cleanup items of it. And it sounds like this might be the last item that to clean up all of the um
2:17:03 conversation that we've had relative to this strip of of space. And I have been out there. I have visited. I have seen
2:17:10 it. I supported the original surplus sale. I'll support this surplus sale because it really honestly was to to be
2:17:18 included in that. But I would encourage us as a council and for staff to consider um and for us to consider uh
2:17:26 instructing staff to bring forward a resolution that would require appraisals for any future surplus sales. um to so
2:17:35 we know what the value is and we know what kind of situation we're we're doing so that we can not only justify the sale
2:17:43 but also maybe justify the price of the sale. But I don't think it's it's a it's um it's something that we should do to put this on Mr. Hess at this point in
2:17:52 time in this transaction and I uh encourage uh approval of this item before us so that we can close this
2:17:58 chapter. Miss Mars, I was going to say something similar about can we make a motion to um approve this. That's where I'm at.
2:18:08 Mr. Peterson, I mean, I'm in concurrence. I think we've we've given Mr. Hess a lot of uh there's a Jewish word, sorus, about this all this time.
2:18:18 You know, you know that word. I mean, because I mean, he's he's been very faithful in, you know, dealing with not only us but the surroundings about him.
2:18:27 And I think since this was part of the original agreement that we kind of uh messed up on, I don't know why we're
2:18:35 even saying anything. But as Mr. Bander said, maybe for future use when we're ever going to surplus a piece of property, maybe we should come up with
2:18:44 an assessed value from someone to get so we you don't have to just throw in a number out in the blue. As a matter of fact, I think this number probably we
2:18:52 shouldn't even charge anything because why are we even charging $500? just let just give it to them. I don't think the
2:18:59 city's gonna make or break anything over a $500 sale. Other than that, up to you.
2:19:07 Well, I'm I'm happy to take the money.
2:19:10 So, I think that that I love it.
2:19:15 I am. I guess in that way I should be serving on government, right? I'm just kidding. It's the wrong Sorry, too soon.
2:19:21 Um, so I fully support having appraisals for the future. I don't want for purposes of staff's notes, I don't want it to be a minimum or to require us to
2:19:31 accept that because I think there are other conditions. But I do think that one of the boxes we should check is getting an appraisal on any property. Um
2:19:40 I I might be more creative than others, but I'm not of the opinion that nothing could be done with this property. I think that something could be done with
2:19:48 this property. What I like, because I didn't love this to start with, um I like that staff went through the process of getting with the consultants and
2:19:56 finding out what they could see as part of our comprehensive plan, our downtown master plan, and the consultant said, "Nah, it's really it doesn't really have
2:20:03 value to the city. They don't see something that would fit in alignment with the master vision. So, I'm okay with that. I don't need to be right on
2:20:12 that issue." Um, I think that where there may be tension on this is that the
2:20:18 real issue comes around the some some heated emotions around the Lumberyard project and that perhaps we are
2:20:26 projecting some of that onto Mr. Hess and that's not just for us to do that.
2:20:31 We we really do need to look at this as this particular property, this particular transaction. And our duty is to the people, our duty is to the
2:20:39 businesses of Clermont, but our duty is also to the land. And when you have a piece of property that creates a um
2:20:47 almost like a flag lot where you have this like weird spike of land that's owned by one entity, in this case, the city, that is weird. It's not
2:20:57 appropriate for property to do that. We had laws against that in Florida. And so I'm perfectly happy to entertain an easement for the same reason I'm happy to take the money. I mean, if if Mr.
2:21:06 Hess is willing to pay and he's willing to maintain the land and we still have an easement and public right to it, that sounds great to me. Um, so I think
2:21:14 whatever the the the saga that might be behind this, I agree with Mr. Bain. It's time to put it to an end. Um, this did go through the public bid process.
2:21:23 anybody else who wanted it or had a creative idea had their chance to participate in this process whether it was at the last hearing or in the bid
2:21:30 and they chose not to. So, I'm happy to put this to rest. I'm not the last one so I won't make the motion although I'll
2:21:37 have a question on that later. Um, so I'm I'm done, Mr. Mayor. Okay. Thank you.
2:21:45 Question. Uh, well, Mr. I hear everybody keep saying this was a part of the original land deal. So if that's the
2:21:52 case, my one of the question I I have is the fact that why didn't we uh why do we bring it back as a surplus land sale and
2:22:00 instead of just going bring it back as a correction in the last deal? Okay, this was not a part to me the original
2:22:08 portion of land that we sold him didn't include this portion. Okay, this is a whole new portion. All right.
2:22:15 And I'm sorry, but I I remember sitting on this dis a few months ago and we talked about uh selling a piece of property and somebody came in and made an offer for the piece of property. And
2:22:24 our legal advice was the fact that we need to get appraised value at least. We cannot sell city property without having for less than what the appraised value.
2:22:35 So, how can we sit here and sell this property again without having appraised value?
2:22:41 I've even we even had one um resident come in here and actually went out and got a second appraisal on a piece of property and off made an offer to us
2:22:49 after that. Of course, we didn't sell the piece of property, but still because of that comment, they went and got a second appraisal on a piece of property
2:22:57 on this same count. Mr. Bain, he wasn't here. I don't think he was sitting on the council, but the rest of of us was.
2:23:02 Okay. At that time, so now we switching gears in the middle of the road. See?
2:23:08 All right. Uh and I I just I I've been involved with this long before even before the L
2:23:16 started and it had always been city own that that was never far as I'm concerned that was never piece part part of the
2:23:24 original contract to give land to which I oppose that as well. Okay. Uh and I'm still going to oppose this. I didn't I
2:23:32 agree with surplus in this uh because I I still think we going to find ourselves in in in down the road in a little bit of problem by selling this piece of
2:23:40 property when we have an easement there and we got utility running through there something happened goes back to what Mr.
2:23:47 uh what I was saying earlier liability and responsibility who's going to be there are we going to put something in the clause uh that say hey we can't be
2:23:56 held liable for any damage done to the property if we have to go in and do something with the uh utility we have there and that's all I have to say I
2:24:03 will not support it period entertain a motion like make a motion to
2:24:11 accept item number 12 the surplus post property sale on Carol Street.
2:24:18 I second. C can I ask that the motion include the conditions that are in the staff report?
2:24:25 Uh namely that certain development cannot occur on the property and also that the city retain an easement.
2:24:32 Okay. I'll make that amendment. I want to accept that with the with the additional uh amendment that we can have uh
2:24:41 easements rights on the property and they can't you can't develop any properties on that property.
2:24:50 I still second that. I have a motion and second to uh for approval of item number 12, sale of a surplus uh property at
2:24:57 Carol Street uh with the addict stipulation as presented in the package. Any further discussion?
2:25:08 None. All in favor by saying I. I.
2:25:11 All oppose. Chair vote. Nay. Motion carries 4 to one.
2:25:18 All right. unfinished business. The ordinance number two.
2:25:24 Excuse me, mayor. I think we're Are we doing Hartwood Marsh and Hancock before? Yes. Is that where we put the Hartwood Marsh?
2:25:31 Yes, we did. I'm sorry. Yes.
2:25:32 No, that's okay. I I I I would have only I only remember because I made the note.
2:25:36 Um, can we can we maybe take a a 5 minute or 10 minute recess before we start into the additional items?
2:25:43 9 519. You want to start back at 5:30? Is that good? What?
2:25:47 5:30. 10 minutes. 5:30. That's Yeah. 5:30. Okay. Thank you.
2:26:34 Heat. Heat.
2:26:57 Hey. Hey. Hey.
2:27:22 Heat. Heat. N.
2:28:14 Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
2:29:15 Heat. Hey, Heat.
2:29:44 Heat. Heat.
2:30:52 Heat. Heat.
2:31:34 a
2:33:17 Heat. Heat.
2:33:34 Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat.
2:34:06 Heat. Heat.
2:35:43 Did you take their seats? No, I didn't. It doesn't.
2:36:37 All right, if I can get everyone to take the seats.
2:36:51 That includes you too, too.
2:36:57 Uh, I think at this point we probably be uh going over Hardwood Marsh Road. Uh, Mr.
2:37:04 Van Wagner, I'm going to turn it over to you, please, sir.
2:37:07 Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I'm going to turn it over to our chief Azelle. He just had some conversations that I think will be very important information to find out.
2:37:20 Uh, good evening, Mayor Council. Uh, David Eel, fire chief. Um, this was brought to my attention yesterday around 5:00 by Mr. Neimik. Uh, I had no
2:37:28 knowledge that there was any planned closures of the uh, the secondary access into I believe the one is a Hartwood uh, landings in Regency Hills. So, I asked
2:37:37 my fire marshall to start looking into it. U, he's been making some inquiries about throughout the day. Uh, plan planning and public services didn't know
2:37:45 anything about it. So, it was kind of unknown to the city. Uh what I have found out in like the last 90 minutes, um I had a chance to speak with uh Lane
2:37:53 Register over at LAR. Um when I first talked with him, he had no knowledge of it. He made a call uh got back with me after a few minutes and uh turns out
2:38:02 that one of his subcontractors has been working with Lake County. And that's where the planning was being done for the closure. And they I guess they put
2:38:10 signs out today that starting on September 7th, they were going to be doing a three-month closure of both of those entrances into those uh those the community. Three months.
2:38:19 So, I explained to Lane that that is our secondary means of access into both of those communities. Um I've I've shared
2:38:26 with him that we had a situation a couple weeks ago. We had a water mane break along Hartwood Marsh that uh fouled the entrance going into Regency
2:38:34 Hills and we were reliant on that secondary access off of Hancock Road and that it was a you know utmost importance
2:38:41 that we maintained some sort of stabilized access for uh for emergency vehicles to be able to get in through
2:38:48 those entrances. So Lane has put a stop to the project until we can sit down with the city's team and his team and
2:38:56 come up with a plan that everyone's going to be in agreement with. So, as of right now, it's not happening. Um, and we'll start having conversations and we
2:39:03 will map out how we were going to maintain a secondary means of access into both these communities during the construction.
2:39:10 So, so chief, what what was the purpose of closing that at that point?
2:39:14 I would assume that it's uh tied in with the final construction of uh you know extending Hancock down to Wellness Way.
2:39:20 But I thought I thought post Hancock extension down the Wellness Way was already complete pass up until that secondary entry from uh Regency.
2:39:29 I think this is the last piece there is just south of the church property uh which is involving you know where those those those entrances into those
2:39:36 communities. The one going into Regency Hills is gated. The one on the other side of the road is not.
2:39:41 But that is that is the only other way that we can get into both of those communities if there's a problem with the with the primary entrance off Harwood Marsh.
2:39:48 Yeah. But we don't know what type of work they and going to take 3 months what type of work they were going to be doing there.
2:39:52 Not a clue, mayor. They they had no conversation with anyone at the city.
2:39:56 So even in the future when they get ready to do that work well, we have to come up with some other means in within the next well few months anyway when
2:40:04 they get ready to do that work because it sound like they're going to have to close it eventually anyway. Well, that's the bigger problem. Okay.
2:40:09 You know, they need to they need to get me to a yes.
2:40:12 Okay. Well, get me to a yes. I don't know what they're doing because like I say, I thought that road was complete all the way up past just past the uh
2:40:19 secondary entrance to Regency Hill, you know. So, can we use cardinal directions? So, they
2:40:26 wanted to close south of the western entrance to Regency Hills. Is that what I understand?
2:40:33 I'm not even completely sure what the entire closure was going to be, just that it was going to impact both of those secondary entrances into those communities.
2:40:41 Okay. But I don't I still don't know. Well, yeah.
2:40:44 Mike, the reason why I'm asking is because I have an idea for how we can help at Imagine Charter, which is item number two. I'm out of turn. I'm not sure how we should handle this.
2:40:54 Um, because we own the property south of the Baptist Church and potentially that
2:41:02 could be a staging area for families that are going to imagine charter. Just a concept, an idea. And my question is,
2:41:10 if Hancock was to be closed, would we no longer have access to that property or does that property remain available? Because there's two issues,
2:41:18 closing Hancock and accessing Imagine Charter.
2:41:22 And without knowing the scope of what the closure that they were planning, I I can't give you an answer on that. Okay.
2:41:28 I get I guess I I'm just really trying to figure out exactly where where they were going to close Hancock at and everything. So,
2:41:36 well, can we find out where the sign was? Because there would have been a there was a sign post.
2:41:39 Well, I think the sign was posted on on up uh to the north hardwood Marsh Road.
2:41:46 And that's what I'm asking. If it was posted to the north, please answer all your questions. Photographs.
2:41:54 Come here. if you you have a photograph of exactly where he was going to close.
2:42:04 And and the reason why and thank you council for your support I asked to do this today is because if it's closing on September 7th, we're not meeting until after that happens.
2:42:12 Okay. This is Hancock. This is Hartwood Marsh.
2:42:17 This is where they're closing it. Right here. Okay.
2:42:21 At the intersection. this uh we met with Chrisuh Chris uh what's his the guy from LAR all right he met with
2:42:28 my HOA the contractor the subcontractor blurted out well we're going to close
2:42:35 Hancock road that made that's what opened our eyes okay can you put this norths south east west for me
2:42:42 this is south this is west east and north the church is right here that's what I want to
2:42:49 bring up you closed that road the church has no way to get in and out. The only way they have in and out is a one lane.
2:42:56 One lane on Hartwood Marsh. And those poor parishioners, they have to come out. And guess what they're going to do?
2:43:03 They're going to go east and they're going to go in everybody's community to make a U-turn. This is nothing but a headache. And this is what
2:43:10 subcontractors do. Remember what happened at Wilderness Sway when they broke those lines? Okay, this is the picture once again that was put up on
2:43:20 Monday, early Monday. That is right by Hartwood Landing. Right on the outside of Heartwood Landing. Uh oh.
2:43:28 All right. The new community. Just as you get past their entrance, it's right there. Mhm.
2:43:33 Okay. And this is pretty much what Cong uh Councilwoman Strange asked, which was
2:43:40 where's the gates? This is our egress gate. That's the egress gate. This road is already it's only a matter of
2:43:47 I don't know 100 feet and they just have to pave that.
2:43:51 This is another road that's going through. So this is why they want to close it.
2:43:56 Either way, they're going to be closing two eress gates, right? One at a time. I'm I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
2:44:01 Well, now that you show me they closing up at the intersection, that's why I don't understand why what what are they doing? Because I thought the road would put that p last picture back up.
2:44:10 No, the other one.
2:44:11 Oh, this one. saying I right there past where the construction area right past Regency Hill entrance is there. I thought the bro Hancock was complete
2:44:18 there. So why what's the need to close at the intersection?
2:44:22 Because they doing the hybrid like we mentioned four years ago, they're doing two lanes going south uh westbound and two lanes going eastbound.
2:44:33 So So like I asked two years ago when they started this project, why didn't they put four lanes in to begin with?
2:44:39 They're doing four lanes now. They're taking your advice and they're doing the four lanes. Okay. To save money.
2:44:45 So that's what's going on. Okay. That's Now I understand why they I don't What road are we looking at in that picture?
2:44:51 This is This is Hancock. This is our egress from Regency Hills.
2:44:57 This is Hartwood Landing. So technically I'm going to show you because I'll come I'll email you better pictures.
2:45:03 Secret way right there. Yes. Can you turn it so it's north south?
2:45:11 Keep turning. Keep turning. There you go. North south.
2:45:14 Okay. I don't think so. South face south is over here. Hancock is north.
2:45:18 Okay. Can you flip it another 180 degrees? Okay. That was 90. Go. Keep going.
2:45:24 I feel like I'm on my phone doing that like phone edit thing. Oh, you had it. Go back. Keep going. Keep going.
2:45:31 What you want at the north?
2:45:33 Keep going. Okay. So, is that North Hancock there at the top of the screen? Yes, it is.
2:45:38 Okay, got it. There's two roads going in there. All right. Kingston to the east.
2:45:42 This is one road and there's they're just about finished with this road. You see all this construction? That's two lanes. So, there's going to be two lanes on this side, two lanes on this side.
2:45:52 That's why it's going to take three months. Three months without an egress.
2:45:56 That ain't happening. Three months without the First Baptist Church be able to get in and out. you're going to fill this room up with people complaining about that.
2:46:05 And this is because the second vendor subcontractor, okay, said he wants to do it.
2:46:13 Well, like I said, now that's not our problem because that's a county problem.
2:46:17 No. Well, Hancock, well, it's still somewhat our problem, but of course, put the picture back up there again, please, for me. The last one, like you
2:46:26 say, with that new construction there, the new road and I thought Mhm. when they did this road and I questioned that why didn't do the four
2:46:34 lanes to begin with and get away from this headache later. Um they was telling me I thought they told us that the way this they designed everything they'll be
2:46:43 able to add the other lane without having to shut the road down. Same thing with Wellness Way.
2:46:48 Correct. Just like they did road all that supposed been designed with four lane capabilities and when they do get ready
2:46:55 to do them the way they designed them and put them in they not supposed to be able to shut them down. So now why are they coming back shutting them down? So I don't know. Mr. Mr. Ben, I guess we
2:47:04 need to we need to get with county and try to figure out what's going on with this.
2:47:08 Well, we have an agreement as of today not to move forward without staff being in agreement. That's what lanes told us according to chief.
2:47:17 Correct.
2:47:19 So we will do that top priority. And I was I would still when you're talking with the county, I would still try to convince them to do the full lane all of
2:47:27 it full lane right now rather than waiting another year down the road because it's it's going to only be a few months before they have to full lane it. Okay.
2:47:35 And and Mr. Mayor, yeah.
2:47:38 Um can I ask a question with with regard to uh the entrances and egresses? I understand Hancock Road is a county
2:47:44 road. However, those secondary egresses ingresses to Regency Hills and
2:47:52 Hartwood Landing are si are private private within the city. Correct.
2:47:59 Do we have jurisdictional ability as in the fire department being able to say what happens on a county road when it
2:48:08 affects entrance or exit to communities that are in the city of Clermont? And if we can't answer that question legally
2:48:15 right now, can we get that answer, please?
2:48:19 The answer is yes, but it depends on what kind of jurisdiction. So,
2:48:26 for example, I could envision a scenario where if the county closed and deprived us of access to these roads, then I
2:48:34 could seek perhaps an emergency temporary injunction if we needed to maintain the status quo for the city to ac get accommodated.
2:48:44 I I asked that question because I want to make sure we have all means available to us and we know what those means are should we need to implement one of them.
2:48:53 But it sounds like for the time being nothing's happening until we get come back to the table. Yeah. Functionally we have it right now. Okay. Thank you.
2:49:01 And as M as Mr. Van Wagon say they've agreed not to do anything until they can sit down and work it all out. But tell you and and I'm sorry uh and Mr.
2:49:13 Vanwagen maybe emphasize with the county when they doing things like that they need to let because like I said I never heard anything about it. You telling me you didn't hear anything about it. Uh
2:49:20 they come in and make all these things and we left our out hanging. So we need better communication with the Lar was equally surprised. Huh?
2:49:28 I said Lar Lonar was equally surprised as well. Oh, and Lenar is building the road.
2:49:32 Wasn't they part of the rope and they didn't know nothing about it? They did not. Okay. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate everybody.
2:49:41 Okay. Wow.
2:49:47 Okay. Okay, with that done, we'll we'll move in uh item number 13.
2:49:58 Uh before I go before I go to 13, I know we had voted to move item number 17 down
2:50:04 to um after 21, but I saw Miss Forth come in. Um I don't have no problem. If it's okay with council, can we go ahead
2:50:12 and and go ahead and take her so she can get out if if it's okay with council? I move to I think so.
2:50:18 I move to move item number 17 to after item number 12 or before 13. Okay. A second.
2:50:25 Okay. So, we'll go ahead and look at item number 17. Miss Forth citizen request please.
2:50:35 Frank.
2:50:38 Yes. But I at the very end of the meeting tonight.
2:50:43 Well, we we were going to address the council at the end of the meeting. You want to stay there at the end? Yes, sir. Okay. Well, we'll leave you at the end.
2:50:51 Yes.
2:50:52 Okay. Well, I saw you here in here. We were just going to try to uh move it up, move you up so we can get you out of here, ma'am. But that's okay. We'll go
2:50:59 ahead. Item number 13, Ordinance number 2026-029.
2:51:04 An ordinance of the city council of the city of Clermont, Lake County, Florida, amending chapter 101, article 2,
2:51:10 division 3, section 101104, granting of variances to establish procedures for the review and approval
2:51:18 of administrative adjustments to allow minor adjustments or modifications from certain dimensional or development
2:51:26 standards of the land development code providing for conflict severability, codification, administrative correction of scrivener's publication and effective date.
2:51:37 Yes, sir.
2:51:38 Good evening, mayor, city council members, and guests. John Cruz, Development Services. This is agenda item number 13. At the direction of the
2:51:47 city manager's office, staff is proposing an amendment to the land development co code in order to establish procedures for administrative adjustments within the city limits.
2:51:57 Section 101-104 of the land development code currently governs the granting of variances includes provisions for administrative
2:52:04 variances. However, these apply only to minor deviations associated with already approved elements. The code also
2:52:12 provides limited minor variance in specific situations. Despite these existing tools, the code does not offer a broader mechanism for minor
2:52:21 dimensional or development standard modifications that do not warrant a full variance review.
2:52:27 The proposed amendment repeals and amends section 101-104B to establish a new administrative adjustment process authorizing staff,
2:52:36 particularly the development services director, to review and approve minor deviations from certain development standards through a clear, consistent,
2:52:44 and streamlined procedure. By establishing administrative adjustments, citizens will have a more efficient path
2:52:50 for resolving small sightspecific issues without requiring a full public hearing before the city council. In addition,
2:52:58 this improves customer service through a time and money savings while ensuring all modifications remain consistent with the intent of the land development code.
2:53:07 This type of procedure is used in other municipalities such as semino county, city of mland, Miami day county and occurring in many more jurisdictions.
2:53:18 The ordinance establishes criteria submitt submittal requirements and parameters for allowable administrative
2:53:25 adjustments ensuring the flexibility provided remains predictable, fair and consistent. Adjustments would be limited
2:53:33 in scale and may only be approved where they do not create adverse impacts, do not substantially alter the character of
2:53:40 development, and are in harmony with the intent of city regulations.
2:53:45 Six review standards are incorporated into the process in which all six must be satisfied with the substantial evidence. Failure to meet any one of
2:53:54 these standards will result in a decision of denial. The applicant could then proceed with the standard variance pro process before city council.
2:54:05 Uh on the screen is just some examples how the proposed administrative adjustment framewood were operate. For
2:54:13 example, the rear yard setback if the standards 25 ft uh administrative adjustment could be um uh requested up
2:54:22 to 25% which would then be um roughly 6.25 25 ft. So the adjusted rear yard
2:54:28 set back would be 18.75 ft. And again it it shows the sideyard setback and then also uh the maximum
2:54:38 retaining wall height. Um and that percentage is a little higher. The reason why is uh at 35% uh
2:54:45 administrative adjustment could increase allowable height by 2.1 ft which gets you to roughly over 8 feet. And that
2:54:53 seems like a pretty um familiar request before council. These examples demonstrate practable practical
2:55:01 flexibility for applicants while maintaining reasonable limits and ensuring the modifications remain consistent with the development pattern
2:55:08 safety standards of the city. The proposed amendment is consistent with the city's ongoing effort to strengthen and modernize the land development code
2:55:16 by providing a clear and efficient method for addressing minor dimensional challenges without requiring formal variance proceding.
2:55:25 This administrative adjustment process enhances flexibility for applicants while preserving staff oversight and maintaining adherence to established planning principles.
2:55:36 An agrieved or adversely affected party to the decision made by staff may appeal the decision. City council in writing within 30 days of the decision.
2:55:47 The planning and zoning commission recommended approval 5 to zero as presented. Staff recommends approval of ordinance 2026-029.
2:55:56 That concludes staff's presentation. Thank you, sir.
2:56:02 This this is a public hearing. Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
2:56:17 Who asked for this? No. No. Who asked for this before the time starts? Who was it that asked for this?
2:56:27 Council. The council asked for this to be done.
2:56:30 Y'all had it at a workshop. He's going, "No.
2:56:34 Yeah, council asked for it. We had several items coming before us that seemed like they could have been addressed at the staff level. So, we had
2:56:41 conversations publicly on at least two occasions.
2:56:43 Is that who asked for this to change this where these minor things you don't have to go before the council and it can be done, right? And that was done in a workshop.
2:56:51 It was done in a public hearing up here. Mhm.
2:56:54 Okay. So, I lived this 20 years ago. Tim may remember this. And this was the good old boys, the developers. And that's all
2:57:02 real nice and good if it's some of y'all that are decent and nice and honest. If you're not, that's exactly what the
2:57:09 state of Florida didn't want and wanted its citizens to have it to go before the council. Now you got to go for an appeal.
2:57:18 Now you got to put the neighbor through that. They don't like it about a setback.
2:57:23 It is so anti rights of the public that it isn't funny. This is what they do. I mean, you may have been I don't know who started
2:57:32 it, whose idea it was, may have been well intended, but that can go very bad wrong. And I mean very bad wrong. And we
2:57:41 stopped it 20 years ago. I know I was on a panel when we had the dream team up here. So, it's something you better
2:57:48 think about because you don't need to take people's rights away to be Yeah. It I know some of you don't like to be down here. You don't like to be here two and three hours or whatever.
2:57:59 I've been here for 25 years and it didn't bother me. So, everybody needs to get over it, I guess. But this can be problems. And I was just looking and I
2:58:07 stepped back there. Something stuck out to me, too. This 6 foot can go to 8 and 10 foot. You don't do that
2:58:15 automatically. A lot of places and law enforcement doesn't do that because if there's two guys running, one can ho I know Tim's going because we've had they
2:58:23 can hoist them up over the thing. That's why we have a sixoot limit on people's fences and things like that. So, see, all of this is just so subjective. It's
2:58:31 really, really bad. But I know you remember this, Tim. This the good old boys and and the developers love this.
2:58:37 Just absolutely love it. You think they're minor, but what you guys think is subjective. What's minor? You're a lawyer, so you know, subjective is never
2:58:46 good in the law world. That's whoever sees it. So, I hope you turn it down. I know you looks like everything's just going through, but the people have a
2:58:54 right. Y'all really need to think hard about this. This is not good. That's why we stopped it. And you know, I heard that that what' you say may lend this
2:59:01 and that. We're back to that. I'll be talking later tonight. I don't care. Who cares who the other people are? We're different. We've always prided oursel to be different and protect the citizens.
2:59:13 So anyway, it's a very deadly dangerous thing. Thank you. Anyone else?
2:59:33 I'm Chris Weiss, 2128 Grafton AB, Clermont, Florida in Kings Ridge. A year ago, we came in front of the
2:59:40 council and thank you very much. We had a parking lot that has over 250 parking stalls in and in that area the trees
2:59:49 were in a area which was about nine part foot apart oak trees they were dying. We brought in came in front of you and asked for a variance. We paid our $750.
3:00:01 We came in and presented and thank you very much for approving it. We did not have the money to do all of our parking
3:00:08 lots last year. So, I've been working down here to try to get the permit done.
3:00:13 And I think this one of the things that may may let us do the other parking lots without having to spend another $750 to
3:00:22 come back in front of you. We have 13 trees left to do. I'm sorry, 20 trees left to do. 13 at the North Ball and
3:00:31 about seven down on the east wing down there.
3:00:35 The area for the trees in the parking lot is nine foot across.
3:00:41 The drip edge goes out to about 20 feet out underneath the asphalt. They can't get the nutrients they have. The water
3:00:49 doesn't come in the drip edge because it's underneath the asphalt. It was an air air back in the way back when the
3:00:56 city was created. And Perry, not this city, but other cities as well.
3:01:02 They put canopy trees into the the u parking lot down the centers and all the islands in it when it should have been
3:01:10 understory trees because the trees drip edge for understory trees go out about 10 ft. So it's right at the edge of that
3:01:18 that 9 ft islands we have that was a root proved back in 1997 I believe it was. So, I've been working coming down
3:01:26 here checking see if they the variance has been approved for the last probably three or four months and they thought they were good to do some changes to it.
3:01:36 So, when people like myself that been come in here, paid the $750, come back and say, "Can we have a variance for the
3:01:43 other parking lots so we can finish it?" We did not have the money last year to do all of them. This year, we have the additional money to do it. are coming
3:01:50 back now and been waiting and and uh hoping that this might help us get that with coming without having to pay
3:01:58 another 750 back to y'all for another variance. That's what I'm hoping to get out this. So, thank you very much.
3:02:06 Thank you, sir. Anyone else? This is a public forum.
3:02:11 Anyone in the chamber which addresses it may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes. Anyone else?
3:02:20 Seeing no one else in the chamber, I close the chamber. Public comment, bring it back. Anybody online? Nobody online.
3:02:27 So, I close public comment and bring it back to council. Would say you, Mr. Ba.
3:02:30 Thank you, mayor. Um, I believe the only question I have and I'll have some comments and something for the my
3:02:39 colleagues to entertain. Um, is we have the chart of the allowable adjustments
3:02:47 Can anything other than what's in this chart be included in this process?
3:02:55 The way the ordinance is written, that's one of the six uh review criteria. And if you look on page uh 308
3:03:04 uh under uh letter D1, it says the proposed administrative adjustment is permitted by that table.
3:03:11 Uhhuh. So if it's not in the table then to answer your question then it would not be considered as an uh administrative adjustment.
3:03:19 So we're only talking about lot width, front yard setback, rear setback height, etc., etc. Correct.
3:03:26 Okay. because I I was a little kind of confused by what the previous speaker was talking about in terms of sounding like trees
3:03:35 and it doesn't sound like number of trees would be included in this administrative adjustment and and that is something that of course
3:03:42 if council wants to add that that's something that could be added right uh when we reviewed this at the staff level we looked at some of these other
3:03:50 jurisdictions we looked at some of the previous variances that were granted right again that's how we came up with the 35% % for that one particular item because
3:03:59 we didn't want to do 25% and not get to the point where the the variances would still be presented before you, right?
3:04:08 But that is something that could be added uh in terms of if it was a certain percentage.
3:04:13 Yeah. But as of right now, this is what staff is recommending for the administrative process for for now.
3:04:19 For now. And that's something that didn't cross our minds in terms of the landscaping to be honest with you. In terms All right. I just want to make sure. All right. Thank you. That's the only question. I'll have comments later.
3:04:27 Council member Mars, I don't have any questions at this moment.
3:04:32 Mr. Peterson, I think the the question that was brought up is that if we if we change,
3:04:39 let's say, a setback from 25 to to 18, then why don't we just make it 18? I
3:04:46 mean, why do we have the rules for if they can? So, what you're just trying to say is you don't have to bring it to council anymore. You can take care of it
3:04:52 yourself. So you have like a 25% uh leeway that you can do like in the event let's say that they would they put
3:05:00 this property and they said okay we're going to do uh an 18 or a 5 foot separation between houses
3:05:08 planning and zone you could approve it then is that correct? It it really um it depends on if it's within that
3:05:16 percentage on the setback and if it's not in that percentage then they come before you for authorization.
3:05:24 So in terms of the example that was giving in there if it's 7 and 1/2 ft um they can ask for administrative
3:05:31 adjustment and it would uh bring it to five point roughly a little over five and a
3:05:38 half feet. So what basically you're changing the so you're changing the setback rules then
3:05:45 well there there's more thinking well you're you're thinking correctly but there are in this ordinance there
3:05:52 are six criteria that they would have to meet it's not just they ask staff and staff says yeah that sounds good they have six specific criteria they have to meet and part of
3:06:00 the application process they have to work with the immediately adjacent properties that this affects and get letters of no opposition from them so if
3:06:09 they don't meet those six criteria and they don't get support from the neighbors, then it's highly likely it's not going to be approved by staff. But
3:06:16 either way, whether we approve it or deny it, there's an appeal process that any adverse person, whether it's the
3:06:24 applicant itself or the neighbors that feel that it it wasn't it wasn't fair to them, they can appeal to council. But
3:06:30 the six criteria are are things like they have to have a good reason. They can't just say, "Well, because I want it." It's got to be because, you know, we there's this shed that we
3:06:39 have to put here and it can only fit here or else we have to take down these great trees and so it can only fit here.
3:06:45 Things like that would be the reasons that staff would say, "Okay, this makes sense in this situation." But it's not it's not a one-sizefits-all.
3:06:53 But basically, you're taking it away from council to staff on Nick, right? Because in the past, you know, I remember I remember somebody had
3:07:01 wanted to put up a a shed in the back because he had a a 40ft boat and he couldn't fit it in and staff denied it.
3:07:09 He came to us and then, you know, if we have guidelines, then what's the purpose of guidelines? If we're not if we just say whatever it is, you know, if it's a
3:07:17 good reason, you know, then we could just do it, right? A 200 square foot sign. But if the store is big enough, then we'll we'll allow a bigger one. But
3:07:25 that that came to council at least then we had to approve it. But now they're just is it just one person on staff that can approve it?
3:07:31 It's the it's the development services director that that approves it. And again, it has to meet those six criteria. So and and that's within this threshold.
3:07:40 If it's outside the threshold, they can still come to council for traditional variance. Okay.
3:07:48 You good, Mr. Peterson?
3:07:50 Yeah, Miss Strange.
3:07:53 Yes. Uh, my question is directed to our attorney. Please advise me if these
3:08:00 proposed changes are going to trigger an issue. Number one, if we were to strike through the retaining wall height and
3:08:08 not make that something that staff can do, does that cause a problem with us passing this tonight? No.
3:08:14 If we add regulation of trees, does that cause a problem for tonight?
3:08:20 If we add trees to the list, I'm sorry.
3:08:23 I mean, so in the answers to these questions depends on whether or not it's considered material. Um, this is the final, isn't it? Yeah.
3:08:33 So, um, what I'm thinking about and normally what the law requires is that bless you. If it's the nature of a change that it changes the character.
3:08:44 So, I I don't think it does if you add that, but that's closer. How about signs?
3:08:51 Signage if you add it. Yeah.
3:08:53 Yes, I do think that would be material because that's substantially regulated by a whole other chapter. Okay. Bless you.
3:09:01 Um my next question is on the issue of approval. Um if the property is in an
3:09:09 HOA, is it a material change to require that the HOA recommend support? In other words, we require a support letter from the HOA.
3:09:18 Um, one of the issues that came before us several times was people were building
3:09:24 access um, walkways to their properties that had five foot setbacks and we approved them every time the neighbor
3:09:33 said that they supported it and they were unique. They would have met all the six criteria, but under this that would not be allowed because it only allows
3:09:42 25% on a sideyard setback. So my question is if we were to add on the sideyard
3:09:49 setback that for purposes of ingress and egress that staff could go up to 100% on one of the sides.
3:09:58 I don't think that's um a material.
3:10:02 Okay. And then is there an issue? So, I didn't see it in here for us to apply this authority only to single parcels
3:10:11 that do not exceed 1/2 acre that you would limit the applicability of this to a subset of properties. No, I
3:10:20 don't think that's material. And then um or for example the homeowners association if there was an owner con uh
3:10:29 after a turnover an HOA post turnover if the HOA applied for an exception HOA wants to do something in their
3:10:36 clubhouse. I mean I don't see us fighting that if the HOA is coming in and asking I I don't think it's material and I'll just explain why because now we're getting into a lot of different things.
3:10:46 So it's like how many immaterial things then make it material. But the thing is is it's still all within the scope. So if you limit the scope, if that's what
3:10:55 you're doing, yeah, you know, if the universe of possibilities from here is smaller than what came to you tonight, I think that's probably okay.
3:11:02 And then is it acceptable? I did not notice it in here.
3:11:09 Uh, okay. So, where it says the city manager or the city manager's designate, would it be appropriate or prohibitive
3:11:16 for us to say um that it must be signed off by the city manager?
3:11:21 I recommend against it. Legally, you can do it. Why do you recommend against it?
3:11:25 Because we have all kinds of situations where the city manager might not be available or might want to delegate the general operations. In other words, we
3:11:32 have a lot of codes. We have a lot of ordinances in our city code that allow the city manager's designate to handle
3:11:39 things. You passed one recently about residential recovery centers where the city manager's designate and that's because sometimes also we want one
3:11:47 department to handle it and then maybe we decide another department would better be able to handle it later. So that gives them the flexibility to do
3:11:54 that. So the reason why I'm asking these questions is because my concern is for the example that Miss Forth brought up that um you know developer comes in and
3:12:03 they're doing a whole new association if if someone on staff can say well we're going to ver you know modify this by 25%
3:12:10 that could apply across an entire parcel you know 250 homes and I don't I think that would be abusing the intent of this
3:12:17 which is to help my understanding is the intent of this is to help property owners enjoy their property maybe small business owners to not have to go
3:12:24 through are a cumbersome process over little things. So that's number one. But number two is so help me come to a good
3:12:32 conclusion here. The city manager reports to this council.
3:12:36 If we say okay the city manager designates someone else then no disrespect to anybody in the das or in
3:12:44 the room but it allows for fingerpointing versus the city manager is responsible you know for your city operation and on behalf of the department heads. You know, when
3:12:52 Captain Kirks stood trial in Star Trek 6, he said he's responsible for the actions of the crew under his command.
3:12:58 And I mean, I think that's inherent to your city structure.
3:13:03 I mean, that's fair, but in real life there's I don't disagree with you.
3:13:11 That's the history of the future if anyone cares. But yeah.
3:13:16 Um, okay. that uh let me make sure those were the questions I have a reserve
3:13:24 comment question okay
3:13:31 um I'mma just basically I can't I can't super I'mma just say the wall we're
3:13:39 going to 8 foot walls um I have a hard time just giving the basic easy
3:13:46 agreement turning that over and off for anyone to do because like I said, as you know, I
3:13:53 I'm I'm not a big fans of walls and and fences, okay? Especially when they start getting over the over over six feet
3:14:01 because as Miss Forest said because uh some history in law enforcement when when they out there chasing the bad guy,
3:14:09 you know, you can they can go over they can go over the wall real easy, but our officers have trouble trying to get over these big walls and everything, especially with all equipment and having
3:14:17 been out there a lot of times with my brother on K9 that was K9 officer. Uh trying to lift a dog up 100 pound dog and throw him over a wall is pretty
3:14:26 tough. So, I'm a little skeptical about about this um the wall. While I see benefits in it,
3:14:33 point of order, sir. We're in the question period of under the wall. If we go there, you're saying
3:14:41 from 6 feet and it can go all the way from 8 to 10 ft.
3:14:45 Why? Why is under the wall? Why is it we doing from 25 to 67%.
3:14:51 If you look at the asterisks under the table, that's for um inward-facing walls that address significant topography
3:15:00 changes, which mean 50 foot of fall within the site and are features that help minimize tree removal on the site.
3:15:08 And again, that's that's was uh staff's internal discussion. If they're inward facing, you wouldn't see it from the
3:15:15 public right away. If you had a a property that had quite a bit of fall, um that would assist with the
3:15:23 development with the rise and run uh with the six foot walls or 8ft walls. If you have, you know, an eight and a
3:15:30 seven, that's a 15 foot difference with two walls. But if you went back to the six, you would need three walls. So that
3:15:38 does expand the horizontal distance and you know, in terms of when you build walls.
3:15:46 So that's why staff was looking at and that's where the 50 foot topography change came in. But we're open to any
3:15:53 idea or removal. We just wanted to get this for you before you to get direction on the wall. How would that
3:16:01 with this measurement? How would that interact with ordinance that says you uh can only do 10 ft grade or 10% grade?
3:16:11 So if they were to come in and want to put a wall in there, will that create less less need for grading?
3:16:19 Um, it does soften the grade because they can take up more grade by the wall height instead of running horizontally because
3:16:28 when you build these walls, you have to leave separation between the walls. So, if you can get your grade change in two walls instead of three, it gives you
3:16:37 more room to compress some of that horizontal changes. Okay.
3:16:42 Mr. Mayor, if I can add to that, this this portion of it came about because a couple months, I guess a couple meetings
3:16:50 ago maybe, uh there was a a wall variance in front of you and I think it was they were asking for 15 feet and council denied the 15 but would accept
3:16:59 it at 10 foot. This was um in the industrial park area where the Hook Street extension was going to go. Well,
3:17:05 we heard from the county that that they cannot do that Hook Street extension.
3:17:10 They cannot pave it unless that wall is there at that height because they can't make it work without having that retaining wall there at that situation.
3:17:18 So that's why we added this one caveat about the 67% in certain circumstances because in this case it they're they're
3:17:26 going to actually be having to come back to you for another variance because either that or we're going to have to decide whether we don't want the Hook Street extension moving forward. So in
3:17:35 in certain cases we see it something that is is you know these aren't the these are the one-offs. These
3:17:43 aren't the every day someone's going to get a a 67% increase on their wall height. Well, that's that's a wide variance there from 25 to 67 and
3:17:52 everything else set at 25. Okay, that's a big big caveat and especially on walls. Uh,
3:18:00 so that's why, like I say, I'm not a real fan of these tall walls and everything else, but I'm also not a big fan of grading our heels down either.
3:18:10 So, if it can help, that's fine, but I just think that's that's too much of a variance there on the walls. Um, and I just reserve everything else.
3:18:19 That's the only real question I had about it. Okay. So, um, yes, sir.
3:18:25 Thank you, mayor. Um, I do appreciate the fact that there is an appeal process for any agrieved party. Um, whether it's
3:18:33 the applicant or a neighbor. Um, I think that we have to have that if we're going to implement this. One of the suggestions I was going to make if we
3:18:41 are going to implement this is to consider it like we did with the um golf cart original golf cart ordinance where
3:18:48 we put in a one-year one-year uh ordinance and we um and and in this case I was going to also suggest if we do
3:18:57 this to have it sunset in a year and also require quarterly reports to the council during that year to find out is
3:19:05 this working, is it not working, how many times is it occurring, what kinds of variations are are being done that are not coming before us. And if we like what we see, we potentially continue it.
3:19:17 If we don't like what we see, we put a stop to it right there and we bring it back to where we have it. Now, it does sound like there are some concerns
3:19:24 relative to what's included in the chart. Um, I have some of those I share
3:19:30 some of those concerns. I I think that rather than Frankensteining the
3:19:38 ordinance, and I and I mean that honestly with no disrespect by anybody because I I just I I think Council Frankenstein was brilliant.
3:19:46 Yeah. I think I think Council Member Strange has some some some areas where she might want to see some modifications. I too might want to make
3:19:53 some modifications to this um based off tonight's conversation. Um perhaps we're not quite ready to approve
3:20:02 anything yet. Um and that's where I'll leave that uh as a as a statement for now just to just to make sure that we
3:20:10 can all get on board whether we want this or not. Um the other thing too is there are some communities that have like a border review uh or a board of adjustments that that handle these things that are citizenled.
3:20:22 Um that's that's like a uh you know code enforcement does code. Well, this this board hears these types of variances.
3:20:28 There's criteria for that and it's engaging the citizens uh and it removes it from staff and it puts it in the hands of the citizens to make decisions
3:20:36 for the citizens. That's something we could implement if we wanted to create this board. Um I'm not saying we have to do that right now, but it might also
3:20:44 alleviate some of the concerns we have relative to this coming out of the public domain and going into a staff domain. Thank you.
3:20:54 Miss Mars.
3:20:57 Um, Bryan, you given me a lot to think about. Um, you made some good points about having a committee.
3:21:05 H, I'm thinking maybe we should table it.
3:21:12 Mr. Peterson, I'm in agreement with that. I mean I think it would be something if we do implement this we would have to be then
3:21:20 seeing we would have to get reports about what's letting go through on let's say a monthly basis so we know what kind of things are happening and then if we
3:21:29 feel like it's wow this is going way beyond what we envision it then we can stop it. So, I don't know if we have a sunset or can we can we stop it on a
3:21:37 monthly or quarterly basis if we find it uh it's not it's not pleasant to the council when we find out that they
3:21:44 they're subverting our authority in in these type of things. So, at least we could you know we could try it out and see how it works and then then we could
3:21:53 eliminate it if if it work if it's working fine. If it's something that we would do the same thing then then it would be okay. And then secondly, as far
3:22:00 as like the tree ordinance, if we already gave a variance to use singles single trunk uh crate myrtles, does that
3:22:09 cover then the whole parking lots? Is it carry over to addition in a in a in a development?
3:22:17 So this way I'm just trying to say does he have to spend 750 to do two of the parking lot?
3:22:23 In that particular case, it was very specific area that was presented to the council. It was that part of the parking
3:22:30 lot. I believe now they'd like to go to a different area of the parking lot that was not addressed as part of the variance. Yes, that's the issue with the But would this be something? It's not in the the table here. Yes.
3:22:40 But if it was a previous variance given and it was and was approved would be then we say then that would be like
3:22:49 canled by staff. Yeah. You could get it done with without Mr. Peterson that isn't a part of what we what we're looking at here. So, and I
3:22:58 will I want to address that a little bit later myself. So, okay.
3:23:01 Yeah. But anything else?
3:23:05 Miss Strange, Council Member Strange, I'm all for tableabling this. Um, I will say I I would not support any
3:23:14 retaining wall height variances or administrative support. Um, I was against that. It might have had council support overall, but I definitely think
3:23:23 that um I was against it. I don't want to see any I don't want to see three retaining walls quite frankly. Um but I don't think the citizens want to see our
3:23:30 hills knocked down and flattened. I think that's really important. So I'm going to stay firm on that issue. But I do think that tableabling it to give
3:23:38 staff a chance to take another stab at this is good. I think Mr. Bain, you bring up a really interesting point about uh a board and I actually wonder
3:23:47 if I'm not going to ask a question because we're it sounds like we might be tableabling it, but I think that perhaps
3:23:54 this could be something that if staff think it's appropriate could go to planning and zoning and get the blessing of planning and zoning because they deal
3:24:01 with planning and zoning and we rely heavily on them or or code enforcement maybe, but I think planning and zoning is more in the creative realm. So, just
3:24:10 something to expedite the process, get it moving quickly. Um, I don't like hearing that things go on and on, including myself. Um, but really the
3:24:18 process for for purposes of the individuals and the businesses. Um, I would like to see it ultimately limited
3:24:24 to single family homes or properties less than a half an acre. And I think that will avoid avoid the abuse, but still serve the purpose of the intent.
3:24:34 Um, but beyond that, um, I'll wait, but I'm for tableabling. It sounds like we're going that way. If we don't want to table it, I do have some Frankensteining that I'd like to do.
3:24:48 You're done.
3:24:50 Okay. Thank you. Let me say uh first of all, I'm totally against this the whole thing
3:24:59 and in one main area is the uh is the wall. All right. I think that 25 to 67
3:25:07 is a little too much for me to deal with right now. Plus, the other other issue that really bothers me about this is the side setback. And I don't think anybody
3:25:15 in this in this chamber or anything that's been here a while know that I have a problem with going below five uh
3:25:21 7 and 1/2t side setbacks. Okay. Uh I in residential communities and everything else. I mean, I like to look at them on
3:25:29 a case-by case basis, and that's what varianes offer us the opportunity to do.
3:25:33 Look for at them on a case-by case basis. Um, when you start trying to say, okay, we can just automatically start doing this less than 7 and 1/2t sat back. I have a I I have some concern.
3:25:45 And as Miss Ford said earlier, yes, I was around here when this county came up some years ago and we tried to do and we put left it in the hands of the council to make these determinations and
3:25:53 everything else. And one of the main reasons was the fact that we didn't want to have to put pressure on the staff.
3:25:58 When the staff sit here and make the determination, everything and then the neighbors and everybody else may Yeah, you can say they got an appeal process, but hey, did they was they able to come
3:26:06 in here before the council uh uh voice their opinion before their council without before all approved because once
3:26:14 it get approved, yeah, appeal is there, but how many things going to usually change after approve? So, I'm still for it come. still somewhat looking at it
3:26:23 for it to come to the council and give the neighbors and then everybody else a chance to come in and voice their their opinions and all. So, uh just like they
3:26:30 as you stated earlier, Miss Miss Strange, other one that came in, the neighbors and everybody came in and stood up for it. So, I like that process, you know. So, so I can't really
3:26:40 support it that well right now, especially those two area, the walls and the side setback. But entertain a motion. move to table item number 13,
3:26:49 ordinance number 2026-29 to give staff an opportunity to uh make edits and bring it back to us.
3:26:55 A second. Can can I can I suggest that we table it to October 13th meeting state certain? So moved.
3:27:03 Thank you. That'll give us time to work with one of you. Good. Do I have a second? Oh yeah, I have a sec. Yes. Yes. Yes.
3:27:11 I have a motion and a second to table item number 13 to 13 October. Yes, sir.
3:27:18 So, you want to get through budget? 13 October.
3:27:23 Um, next we have to have done by Friday. Yeah. I'm sorry. Any further discussion? Yes, sir.
3:27:29 Yeah. I I was going to ask the city attorney whether we needed to just table with a date or just postpone it and and
3:27:36 essentially shove it until staff's ready to come back. But I'm I'm fine with a with a date as long as the date works or we can go longer too. I don't want to
3:27:44 rush this. I would rather have a a product before us.
3:27:49 Uh it depends on how staff wants to proceed given the feedback it's gotten.
3:27:53 It's been advertised. So I if we if we table to a date certain we don't have to readvertise it. I think October 13th gives us plenty of time. That works for me.
3:28:01 You got that give a little over a month month and a half to work on it and bring it back anyway. Okay.
3:28:07 You know, uh, Council Member Strange, I think I have a motion in a second to go ahead and table this at 13 October 26. Any further discussion?
3:28:15 No.
3:28:17 Not everybody in all in favor let it be known by saying I. I. All oppose and chair vote I as well.
3:28:24 Motion carries 50. Item number 14 is for final consideration of ordinance number 2026-03
3:28:34 0. An ordinance of the city council of the city of Clermont, Lake County, Florida, imposing a 180day moratorum on
3:28:41 the submission, processing, approval, or issuance of any new development orders or permits for any retail use that
3:28:48 supports vaping retail shops, providing for conflict, severability, the administrative correction of scrivener's
3:28:56 error, publication, and an effective date.
3:29:00 Yes, sir. At the uh July 28th, 2026 regularly scheduled meeting, council directed staff to prepare an ordinance
3:29:08 establishing a six-month moratorum on any new smoke or vape shop vape shops.
3:29:13 The six-month mortorium will allow staff time to research best practices and come back to council with a proposed amendment to the land development code
3:29:22 updating how the city regulates such uses. With that, Steph does recommend approval of ordinance 2026-030
3:29:30 establishing a six-month moratorum on new smoke uh or vape shops. Well, thank you. Short. Short and sweet. Yes, short and sweet.
3:29:38 Does anyone This is a public hearing.
3:29:40 Anybody anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
3:29:46 Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone, state your name and address and have three minutes.
3:29:52 Seeing no one in chamber, I close chamber of public comments. No one online, I closed public comment. Bring it back to council. What say you, Mr. Bain?
3:30:00 No questions. No questions. What say you, Mrs. Mars? No questions.
3:30:04 Mr. Peterson, what what would be the start date? That would be today would be the start date. And what's is anybody in
3:30:12 the process of opening a shop now that's that's gone through planning and zoning or somewhere? Not currently. No.
3:30:19 Okay. So there it's not going to say okay you you know we put this ordinance in and I just put all this money in to open up a store. So there's nobody in in
3:30:26 the uh batter's box right now with that no other question.
3:30:30 It would be effective immediately to answer your question but it also I just want to point this out like any moratorum it does place an obligation on
3:30:38 the city to actually follow through and look at it like it can't just stop things there's a follow through a
3:30:46 study research we have to actually look into this. they have to bring something back to us.
3:30:52 I not necessarily. Um it could be that it just expires, but the city has an obligation because, you know, I think
3:31:00 there's language in here. The the reason um let's see that we're, you know,
3:31:08 conceivably doing this. See, section three, the city council of the city of Clermont recognizes that city staff intend to study and prepare amendments
3:31:17 to the LDC that would result in the regulation of the number and locations of retail use. These regulations, if adopted, so it's we're section two, the
3:31:26 purpose of this ordinance to preserve the status quo and enable sufficient time to review, study, hold public hearings. So, I just want you all to be
3:31:34 mindful of that. Okay. But with that lang I'm just saying with that language after they review study and all that and
3:31:41 they need to come back with us telling the results. I think so.
3:31:45 Okay. All right. I think that's what I think maybe was after someone.
3:31:50 Uh Miss Strange I don't know if this is a question or a
3:31:56 direction. Uh, but I'm wondering if we can put a workshop on the calendar tonight so that we can not get caught in
3:32:04 a oops, we didn't do our six-month review, something like four months from now where we could schedule a date to address the moratoriums. We have three on the agenda tonight.
3:32:14 And to give the public a chance, four months would be Christmas, so that sounds like a great time to do it.
3:32:20 Well, thank you for looking out. Maybe we say four and a half months, you know, January. Well, this is this is something
3:32:28 Mr. This is something that the staff ordinance that the staff going to be working on to bring back to us. So, I don't think we we need to really look at a workshop just yet until they they give us something to look at first. Okay.
3:32:39 It's not Well, we do need to have public input and I think at least creating an opportunity before staff brings us.
3:32:46 Okay. I'm simply saying I'm not sure that I agree with that statement because I I am interested in what the public has to say regardless of what not that I'm
3:32:55 minimizing stuff. I just think it's two different groups with two different opinions. So um I just don't want to get caught where we we missed it. So I know
3:33:04 workshops fill up quickly. So that was my only real question.
3:33:08 Okay. Um staff is basically is written here for staff to go out and do the study and everything and bring it back to us. Of course, at that point, uh,
3:33:17 when they come back, if we need a workshop, uh, we can open it up to the public anyway at that time and get feedback from them and go from there.
3:33:25 There's also the opportunity, if we had to extend it another six months, six months, right? We have a total of 18 months to do this. Right.
3:33:34 We're just starting with six. If you'll know if we need more time, we'll let you know. Okay. All right.
3:33:40 Okay. I just So then my question to the attorney is, and here's where I'm coming. I'm trying to look out for the city on this one is it does say under
3:33:49 purpose that we will hold public hearings and with SB80 if we do anything to change our code that makes it harder
3:33:56 for a business to adopt you to to open a business like this then it could be arguably I don't want an opinion on it
3:34:04 tonight actually it there's an argument to be made that it could be struck down and so what I want to make sure we do is that we follow the process and also hear
3:34:12 from the public because if the reason we're not hearing from people is because they're excited about the moratorum and they're like great you're doing what I want so I don't have to say anything. We
3:34:20 need them to come to a public meeting and say that so that we can rely on that for purposes of a future potential challenge. So that's where I'm coming
3:34:28 from. I don't even know if it's worth arguing about, but I don't want it to get lost in the process is where I'm saying. So I guess maybe it's more for Mr. City Manager to Okay, make a note. I'm done.
3:34:38 All right. Well, I um I'm gonna ask the same question I
3:34:46 asked in staff review. Why didn't we do 12 months instead of six months?
3:34:50 This was me, mayor, and and the reason why is sometimes other cities do do 12 months. I have concerns with the
3:34:58 constitutionality of a moratorum that goes 12 months. I think it's more reasonable that it goes 6 months and you have the option to extend based upon a
3:35:06 reason. Um there are some cities that have extended year-long moratoria into like infinity that's just not legal
3:35:15 because that is a permanent you know now that said if you chose to I would defend it you know if you chose to 12 months honestly I'm not telling you it's
3:35:23 illegal I'm just saying I have concerns about it I think it's easier and more legal to renew something that's 6 months at a time but that's the reason
3:35:32 I just I just didn't want to put staff under that kind of pressure under this here and especially as Miss uh Strange says
3:35:40 about the uh SB 180. Okay. Give us time to work through it. And I just 6 months I think going to be a little little tight trying to get this all done. Okay.
3:35:50 Especially with SB18 ain't lingering over our head out there. And so that's why I've always I just say in 12 months and I'm with you. I don't like
3:35:57 moratoriums to begin with. And I know they somewhat illegal and going past 12 month 6 months is usually a problem. 12 month but you legally you can go to 18
3:36:06 months but that's that my only question really so uh Mr. thing.
3:36:10 Thank you, mayor. Um, I I too asked the question about 12 month um and I think it's just because
3:36:19 we hear a lot about moratoriums and they come in the 12-month form. Um, and I would worry at at this point based off
3:36:26 this conversation, I not notwithstanding our city attorney's uh abilities and skills, but I would hate to have called
3:36:35 into the courtroom and him to have to defend uh staff saying that we can get this done in 6 months and then we turn
3:36:43 around and do it put the moratorum in 12. Uh, so I think we might have put potentially painted ourselves into the six-month at this point and and then
3:36:51 need to justify if need be that the work can't be done in six months, we need to go another six months. So I think we are where we are on the six-month thing, but
3:36:58 I would have supported 12. Um, I I uh I think to to Council Member Strange's
3:37:06 point about workshop, I think we could probably avoid potentially some of the situations we find ourselves in on
3:37:14 second readings particularly of ordinances. if we did workshop them or I'll say this one again, a committee of
3:37:22 the whole where we could talk about different resolutions and ordinances as a body without any action and it
3:37:30 wouldn't necessarily be a workshop per se because we're not actually workshopping it. They're presenting something to us and we're we're just giving the feedback before it comes to
3:37:38 us to vote. Um, I think it's worth having that conversation because it then potentially alleviates some of the
3:37:46 discuss, not discussion, but some of the um Frankensteining uh that we have to do up here because we're we're we're just
3:37:52 now trying to put all our thoughts into what we want to see based off of what we've digested, what staff's proposed.
3:37:59 So I I I would support workshop committee of the whole, whatever we want to call it. But I think when we talk about bigger items like this of
3:38:06 ordinances, it it might be worth having conversations before they get even at an intro level at a council meeting. But I will support this item tonight. Thank
3:38:15 you, Miss Mars. I support this item, too.
3:38:22 And Mr. Peterson. I mean, I'm I understand the workshop process, but I think what we really need to do is come up with an
3:38:29 ordinance. How you know, you can't sell tell somebody that they can't have a business. And there's people that want smoke shops. That's their business. They
3:38:37 know that business. But we have to find an ordinance where where you going to place that business. I know with SP 180, we can't infringe on some property
3:38:44 owners rights. But on the other side, if we make an ordinance that these have to be in an industrial park, these have to be, you know, away out of the public
3:38:53 site. If people want to go to a smoke shop, they'll find a smoke shop. If they want to go to a dispensary, they'll find where to go. It doesn't have to be on a
3:39:01 main road in front of a Publix or in front of a daycare or in front of a high school. And I understand a lot of complaints about this in the past that
3:39:09 they, you know, we have a 500 foot ordinance that might not be sufficient and maybe staff can come up with a more stringent way to do that where you can locate these type of businesses.
3:39:18 Eventually, we're going to have to say, okay, you can open up a smoke shop. You know, we can't we can't put the moratorium on forever because that's an
3:39:26 infringement on on somebody's right to do business. And just because we find his business distasteful or some people
3:39:33 find it distasteful, it is somebody's business. So we I think that's what staff really needs to do. Come back to us within six months. Look at other
3:39:40 municipalities how they came up with solutions to this because we're not the first people that are that are trying to figure out a solution to this type of
3:39:48 problem. Other other municipalities in Florida and other parts of the country have come up with the same thing. So I think we can glean on them and find out
3:39:57 a reasonable answer to come up with with a solution to the problem. Done. Oh, Miss Straight.
3:40:07 Um, yeah, I too would have supported a 12-month um if it had come up. I think that in addition to the conversation tonight, the fact that this is a final
3:40:15 reading um lens, I I do not believe in council's welcome to correct me if I'm wrong, but I do think that going from 6 months to 12 months would have been
3:40:23 material. I would have argued it was material. Um u so my real comment is
3:40:30 going to relate to on on each of these ordinances tonight. We really kind of did things the old way with these ordinances where we kind of rushed
3:40:39 through the intro. And I think a lot of these conversations should be had during the first reading so that the second and final reading is actually the one that
3:40:48 doesn't have as much conversation because now we have a tabled item and we have another item that we maybe could have done better if we had had this
3:40:56 conversation and treated the first reading like it's the most important reading. So, I'd like us to consider that in the future. Other than that, I'm going to support this one tonight.
3:41:08 Okay. As I said, my only concern with this is uh instead of 6 months, 12 months, because I think with SB80
3:41:17 hanging out there, uh we going to have a little bit of trouble trying to trying to convince people that u I don't care where we put it, what we try to do and
3:41:25 everything, SB is pretty pretty tough to get around. Um, so I think trying to get it done in six months going to be a little tough. So we may have to come
3:41:33 back here in six months. If we do six months and do another six months and I rather just go ahead and do the 12 months now and get it out of the way and hopefully we can get it done in 12
3:41:41 months. Um, I know uh when I was here for the adult material uh sat out there and listen go
3:41:51 through the debate for the adult material uh sales and everything here in the city some years ago. how tough it was. But then we didn't have SB180 and
3:42:00 it was still a little tough. Not SB180 is out there. As Mr. Peterson said, we can't stop anybody from opening up a business. And where we going to put
3:42:08 them? I think that's going SBA SB80 going to have something to say about where we locate them. If if we put them in industrial park like we did with the
3:42:16 uh what was the the adult we put them in industrial complexes on the place they can be, which we only have three in the city of Clemma and they're very small.
3:42:24 So we at the time uh we haven't had no problem with it but and that's the only thing but I support I I want to support
3:42:32 the moratorum even if it's 6 months I still support it because I think we need to look at it. Okay.
3:42:39 Okay. I'd like to make a motion then to accept ordinance number 2026-30 with the possibility of another extension.
3:42:49 A second. I have a motion and a second for approval of item number 14, ordinance number 2026-030
3:42:58 for 6 months. Uh I think the motion said with the possibility of 6 months extension.
3:43:05 Okay. Any further discussion hearing?
3:43:08 None. Council member Strange I. Council member Bain I. Council member Myers I.
3:43:14 Council member Peterson I. And the chair vote I as well. Motion carries 5.
3:43:20 Okay. Item number 15, ordinance number 2026-031, an ordinance of the city council of the
3:43:28 city of Clermont, Lake County, Florida, establishing a temporary moratorum on certain medical cannabis activities,
3:43:35 including cultivation, processing, manufacturing, dispensing, distribution, and sale of medicinal marijuana, low THC cannabis, and related products.
3:43:46 Establishing a temporary moratorum on the acceptance, processing, approval, opening, relocation or expansion of
3:43:54 medical marijuana treatment center, dispensing facilities within the city, providing for penalties. Providing for conflict, severability, administrative
3:44:02 correction of scrier's error, publication and effective date. Yes, sir.
3:44:08 Mayor, this one's going to sound almost identical, so bear with me. Yes. At the July 28th, 2026 regularly scheduled meeting, council directed staff to
3:44:17 prepare an ordinance establishing a six-month moratorum on any new marijuana dispensaries.
3:44:23 The six-month moratorium will allow staff time to research the best practices and come back to council with a proposed amendment to the land development code. Staff does recommend
3:44:32 approval of ordinance 2026-031 establishing a six-month moratorium on new medical marijuana dispensaries.
3:44:41 Thank you. That's it. This is a public forum.
3:44:43 Anyone in the uh chamber wish to address this item may come to microphone to state your name and address and have three minutes. Yes, sir.
3:44:55 Bob Farrell 421 Brambleway, Minneapolis, Florida.
3:45:00 I spent the last 50 years of my life working with children, teenagers, and young adults,
3:45:08 either through training, coaching, um, leadership, Boy Scouts and Girl
3:45:14 Scouts, and different sports. Reason I did this is because we were trying to keep drugs from finding the kids and the
3:45:23 kids finding drugs. I lost a brother to drugs at the age of 17.
3:45:30 If you okay this then you're letting the people of Clermont know that you're
3:45:37 thinking about letting a drugstore open up here in Clermont and eventually
3:45:43 it trickles down to the children. I know that they got all kinds of things but kids always find a way to get it.
3:45:52 There's no better salesman than somebody that can get it and and sell to the kids.
3:45:58 I'm asking you to take this thing and throw it out the window. Don't even think considering it. If somebody asks you something and you say, "Well, maybe
3:46:05 I'm not sure." You're you're giving them an okay to continue to force it on you. But if you
3:46:13 tell them no right off the bat, maybe they'll go away and and Clermont and the people of Clermont won't have to deal with drugs.
3:46:23 So, I appreciate what you again take my my thoughts in consideration, but I tell you the last person to find out is the parents.
3:46:33 And if you guys have children or or had children or have grandchildren, don't think that uh they're immune to it. Nobody's immune to it. Thank you.
3:46:44 Thank you. Yes, sir. Vincent Neck, Regency Hills.
3:46:55 Uh, I'm only up here because Allison said I want to hear from the public. So, I'm in support of this. Maybe the gentleman was a little confused back
3:47:03 there, but if you don't vote on it, they still go through. This is just put a moratorum on it. So, I want to be clear to that gentleman that he knows what he
3:47:11 was saying. Okay. So, I'm in support of putting a moratorum for 6 months. Actually actually I think
3:47:19 after seeing the vote you should go to 12 months on this but that's up to the council to decide. Thank you.
3:47:27 Thank you. Anyone else? This is a public forum. Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone state your name and address and have three minutes.
3:47:35 Anyone else in the chamber? Seeing no one else in the chamber. Anyone online?
3:47:40 No one online. So we close public comment. Bring it back to Mr. Bain. What say Bain? Mr. Bain. No questions. Mr.
3:47:47 What say you, Miss Myers? No questions. What say you, Mr. Peterson?
3:47:52 I think this is the same as the previous one. I think this is a little bit stronger. This is medical marijuana, and we we have to make a tough decision. Do
3:48:01 we want to have additional dispensaries in Clermont? Is that something that, you know, the public will tolerate if we
3:48:09 pass that? There's probably a percentage of the public that's utilizing these things. Just like we say, you know, back in the prohibition, let's eliminate
3:48:17 alcohol. I mean, it was it was a tough decision, but they had a larger population. This population that uses these substances is getting larger and
3:48:26 larger. And what can we do as a council? That's the real question. What can we do? Can we We
3:48:33 have businesses already in town. Can you go knock on the door and say, "We're closing you up." We can't do that, can we? So the moratorum is all we can have
3:48:41 right now. But maybe we could do the moratorum not six months but maybe two years.
3:48:49 Nope. That's the question. Um it hasn't to the
3:48:57 best of my knowledge been legally tested. Um but it wouldn't be my recommendation. I think you can get away with 12 for sure. 12. 12. Okay.
3:49:05 12 is a little tough but but they've been done. You're done. Yes, Mr. Train.
3:49:12 Yes. Um, the extension. Does this one have the extension?
3:49:20 Oh, this one is six months. So, the last one didn't have a six-month extension.
3:49:26 The last one, what's what was written in is that it can be extended by resolution. I actually didn't limit it, right? The number of extensions
3:49:35 um in the U, but this one has a limit.
3:49:39 Uh and again I mean that is something that can always be changed
3:49:47 can is it acceptable in a final reading for us to use the same extension language as we did for the last actually no I don't have a limit in here
3:49:55 um section three temporary moratorum at the last sentence the duration of this ordinance may be extended by resolution for periods of six months per
3:50:02 resolution am I looking at the same thing section three. Yeah. 15 section three.
3:50:11 Last sentence for periods of six months. Yeah. Six months.
3:50:20 Okay. But we could extend it for six months and then come back again for six months. So the point is just that we have to keep addressing the six months.
3:50:28 Okay.
3:50:29 But the other one didn't have the six months. It did. It did. Yes. I read it the wrong way though. Okay.
3:50:35 Well, I'm okay with six months and continuing to address it. I think that when we're talking about especially Oh, that's comments. I'll come back to that.
3:50:43 I'm done with questions.
3:50:44 Okay, Mr. Mr. Well, on this one, my question was we do 12 months.
3:50:50 Um, somewhere within that 12 months, staff bring us back something, we're not happy with it, say at 11 months, can we do another 12 months?
3:51:02 I well we when they bring us stuff in 10 11 months they we've showed progress of trying to work with it. We just haven't been able to come up with anything.
3:51:12 I think you can. I mean I I'll say this that back when the state passed the enabling legislation to allow medical
3:51:21 marijuana dispensary centers was it five six years ago?
3:51:25 Um maybe longer. A lot of cities and counties passed moratoria like this and a lot of them kept them going for up to like three years.
3:51:34 Yeah.
3:51:35 I just I remember I don't think that's legal. Um but up to two, you know, an
3:51:41 extension maybe. Um I here's what I would say. It's much more likely to be legal if we have a record to justify it.
3:51:51 if if based on the technical reasons. So for example, a moratorum to develop a comprehensive plan could and generally
3:52:00 can be sustained for 12 months um because it might be more technical. It requires more input if that makes sense.
3:52:06 But if it's something which I consider more simple then it'd be harder to justify that. So the answer is probably yes based on the technical difficulty.
3:52:15 Okay. Okay.
3:52:18 That's the only question I have. Yes, sir.
3:52:21 Thank you, mayor. U I'm going to I would support a six-month moratorum with the ability, as it's written, to extend if
3:52:27 need be. Um I I I caution us to judge this one differently than than the others
3:52:35 for fear of that. It could be considered that we're not looking at it from a viewpoint neutral standpoint. um that that we're imparting a a judgment saying
3:52:44 this is going to take longer because we don't like it versus this is going to take longer because it will take longer.
3:52:51 Um and again I I point back to staff saying they're telling us they can get this back to us in 6 months. That's what
3:52:57 they're proposing. Um and and barring anything new relevant here. As much as I
3:53:05 would have supported the 12-month upfront, I think we are where we are with the six-month and we see where we are with the with an actual um new
3:53:13 ordinance that could get presented in front of us. And if it does take another 6 months, then we deal with that at that point in time to address it. So, I
3:53:22 recommend approval. Thank you, Miss Mars.
3:53:26 Um, I agree six months is where we're at and I agree with approving this as quickly as we possibly can.
3:53:34 Mr. Peterson, yeah, I'm in favor of uh the six months with the additional six months if if staff can't come back with a reasonable explanation so we can continue it.
3:53:46 Obviously, we're going to get probably get lobbyed by the dispensary industry, you know, hitting us that, you know,
3:53:54 we're preventing people from uh doing their business. And I don't know, I guess that's more legal. Uh what are we
3:54:02 allowed to do? Can we can we make it more difficult as far as like making locations where they can operate? Is that an infringement on their business?
3:54:13 And if it is, can we get around it? That's it.
3:54:20 Yeah, I think that's the purpose of the six months uh is for staff to do all sorts of research, legal um land development code. I mean, we're almost done with our comprehensive plan. So, u
3:54:29 I think that that's good and I like that we have the ability to come back in six months and renew it. I think it's good for accountability. Um
3:54:37 again, I'd like to see public engagement. I'm not asking you to stand up every time, Vinnie. Um but at the workshops, I am. So, um, yeah, I'm good to go.
3:54:49 Okay. I I still support 12 months and especially when I sit here, we just, uh, gave them six months obligation on the smoke shop. So, now we going to throw
3:54:57 another one on to get done in six months. We we doing a lot and we got another one on the agenda that that may look at another six months. So, in six
3:55:04 months, you trying to get them to create three different orders and everything.
3:55:08 Very, very tough. So, somewhere uh, I got a feeling we going to be coming back extending some. So, why don't we just go ahead and do the 12 and take some of the
3:55:16 workload off of them now and some of the stress off them now and and with this one 12 months uh is where I stand with
3:55:25 this one. Okay. I I mean I support the moratorum. I just think we need to do 12 12 months and not have to uh stress our staff out with trying to create all this
3:55:33 stuff at one time. Okay. That's where I stand. Thank you. I entertain a motion.
3:55:40 Move to approve item number 15, ordinance number 2026-031. I second.
3:55:46 I have a motion and a second for approval of ordinance number 2026-031
3:55:53 for the 6 months, right? Um, any further discussion? None. All in favor? I'm sorry. Council member Strange.
3:56:01 Hi. Council member Bain. I. Council member Myers. I. Came member Peterson.
3:56:07 Hi. and chair vote eyes as well. Motion carries 50.
3:56:12 Yes. Item number 16, ordinance number 2026-032, an ordinance of the city council of the city of Clermont, Lake County, Florida,
3:56:21 imposing a temporary moratorum on the acceptance, review, or approval of applications for development permits,
3:56:28 development orders, reszoning, or site plans related to data centers, data processing facilities, data mining, or cryptocurrency mining operations.
3:56:37 referenced herein, collectively as data center facilities within city limits at the city of Clermont, adopting findings, providing for study and
3:56:46 development of appropriate land use regulations, addressing such data center uses, providing for conflict, severability, administrative correction
3:56:55 of scrivener's error, publication and effective date.
3:57:01 And one more time, the last at the uh July 28th, 2026 regularly scheduled meeting, council directed staff to
3:57:09 prepare an ordinance establishing a six-month mortorium on any new data centers. The six-month mortorium will allow staff time to research best
3:57:17 practices and come back to council with a proposed amendment to the land development code. Staff does recommend approval of ordinance 2026-032
3:57:26 establishing a six-month mortorium on new data centers. All right. This is a public forum.
3:57:32 Anyone in the chamber wish to address the item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes. Anyone in the chamber wish to address it may come to the
3:57:40 microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
3:57:44 Seeing no one I close public comment in the chamber. Anyone online, sir? Not at this time.
3:57:48 Not at this time. Okay. Thank you. Well, I'll close public comment. Yes, sir. Mr.
3:57:52 Bain, no questions. Miss Myers? No questions.
3:57:56 Mr. Peterson has there any applications for data centers ever in Clermont ever? We've never had one though.
3:58:04 So they take up a lot.
3:58:06 So what is the So what is the purpose of putting a moratorium on something that nobody's ever going to put an application for? Who say they won't? Said they won't. They could.
3:58:14 I mean it's prevention.
3:58:16 Are we just spinning the wheels here for things?
3:58:19 It's prevention because we have antimatter plants not allowed, right, Captain Kirk? Oh, the lithium crystal plants.
3:58:29 He did it.
3:58:30 I mean, I don't know if you're actually an asking the question or not, but um are you? Yes.
3:58:37 Oh. Um well, look, I mean, a lot of cities and counties are doing this right now just in the expectation that it's coming and and honestly, it's better
3:58:44 that you do it ahead of time if you are concerned about it because we don't want to have be prejuditial to any applicant, right? So
3:58:53 that's kind of the the idea I think and antimatter is highly regulated by but I mean the thing is data centers are
3:59:03 you know I think the the concept is data centers are using a lot of electricity water from the system uh there's
3:59:11 somebody that that builds them overseas and they kind of self-contained over there but I mean you know I'm I'm all for a six-mon moratorum but I we'd have
3:59:19 to come up with then put the staff as what are the criter then and that's basically like the you know this the last two measures they're
3:59:27 going to have to come up with something but everybody is you know I mean it's it's all over the news.
3:59:33 Well we've already gotten feedback from is Dan is is that what you want to talk about?
3:59:37 Yeah. Yeah. We yeah we have already gotten feedback from some people in the industry that have asked us to look at specific languages. But it as Christian
3:59:45 said, it is the big topic on the news now.
3:59:49 We're not going to reduce data need, right, in the future. We're not we're just not we're not going to get less data dependent. So these things are coming to
3:59:58 all of Central Florida. They're coming all over the place. So we just want to jump ahead of it. All right. Prepare.
4:00:03 All right. With that, you know, I'm in favor of six month miss.
4:00:10 I have no no questions but a reserve comment.
4:00:13 Uh, Mr. Bain, no questions. Okay. Um, so I I support
4:00:20 this. In fact, I I actually will make a motion to make this a 12-month uh as opposed to a six-month. And here's my
4:00:27 rationale for that. Um, SB 180, I believe, expires in October of 2027. Um, and so in order for us to
4:00:36 coincide with what Lake County is doing, I believe Lake County just approved their ban uh, sorry, moratorium for one year today at their county board of
4:00:45 county commission meeting. Um, our neighboring community in Minnola uh, is also addressing this at a one-year
4:00:52 level. I think uh partnering together to create some synergy and some information sharing as a community because
4:01:00 realistically um if you do any research in this new emerging for our area uh and
4:01:07 and the emphasis on this um it affects not just people within boundaries. uh
4:01:14 these these centers and their effects do not stop at the boundary at which the city stops and then moves to a different
4:01:22 city or the county. And so I'd like to see some synergy and some and some uh creative thinking with rel relative to
4:01:29 working and partnering with the city of Minnola and Lake County to address these concerns. And I think um the city
4:01:36 attorney in uh Minnola uh kind of summed it up really well and he said this is this is what he would typically call a
4:01:43 legal timeout that is saying that we don't have anything in our code that addresses data centers specifically or large load customers like this. So it's
4:01:51 a pause on any approvals while we investigate and put together the appropriate ordinance for it. Uh I view this differently than what we had with
4:01:59 the other ones. We have current ordinances in place for smoke shops and and medical marijuana. We just are looking at do those actually work for
4:02:07 us. This is something that we don't currently have out there that that if we got before us, we might be trying to go into uh without really any plans in
4:02:15 ahead of us. And if we don't think that this is something that could affect us, I would only point to uh the John Young Parkway um project where we're talking
4:02:24 about a 76,280 square ft two-story structure adjacent to an existing facility that is uh being
4:02:31 proposed and and and looked at. So this is happening. We do have Wellness Way in the City of Clermont. That's probably
4:02:39 where something like this might be proposed. We already have water concerns in the area. I think that we would be uh
4:02:46 well within our rights and well within our thought process to look at this from a 12-month perspective to address the long-term solutions of partnering with
4:02:55 our neighboring communities and also addressing the concerns that we already exist and finally also make sure that we have enough time to address something
4:03:02 that's brand new to our community. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Um I like the idea of 12 months on this.
4:03:11 I agree with you, Bryan. Um, we do need to partner with our neighboring cities and we do need to be ahead of this before this actually comes in our lap.
4:03:21 So, I am in agreeance and supporting to make this 12 months instead of 6 months.
4:03:27 Mr. Petus, I'm in for six months with a with a renewal of 12 months, whatever you whatever our city attorney thinks would
4:03:36 uh would be best. I I think 12 is legal.
4:03:39 Okay. So then did you want to change it to 12th end? I'll make a motion. Oh, we're not there now.
4:03:45 No, we're not. Sorry, sorry. I'm so sorry. It's okay, Miss Peterson. I got it. Miss Strange.
4:03:53 Um, I think you make extremely valid points specifically that the county just passed the moratorium today. Um, your references to Wellness Way are not
4:04:02 things that I had heard before this final hearing. I think they're valid arguments, very good arguments. I like the idea of a regional approach. Um what
4:04:10 does feel different about this to me is that moratoriums I mean data centers are a new thing. Um
4:04:18 I don't feel first of all we've never seen one. We don't it's not in our code. There's not a special provision for it.
4:04:25 This is more complicated than tweaking our existing code or addressing something that's been in the legislature for several years. And on the issue of
4:04:33 supply and demand, I don't want to be the only place that allows them. Yeah.
4:04:37 Because then we're pretty much guaranteed to be where the applications come while we all kind of figure things out. What I would encourage us to
4:04:45 consider, unless our attorney tells me to stop, is if October 1st of 2027
4:04:52 is when SB180 expires, if we do a 12-month moratorium, we're only going until August of 2027.
4:05:01 Perhaps we could consider putting a period of time of October 1st, 2027
4:05:08 or 14 months instead of 12. I realize I'm pushing the boundaries a little bit, but I think that the points that were
4:05:14 made about SP 180 it being a new thing, the county saying 12 months, the water issues in Wellness Way, we're still
4:05:23 sorting that out in our comp plan. If our attorney feels like we could I don't want to say get away with, but if he
4:05:30 feels like he could justify saying October 1st, 2027 unless continued prior to that date, I would rather us say October 1.
4:05:39 I agree with you. I I'm open to it.
4:05:46 You can defend. You feel like you could I'm not going to stop you. No. Okay. Okay.
4:05:53 It's the mayor's turn. I'm done. I entertain a motion.
4:05:58 Mr. Mayor, I'd like to approve uh make a motion to approve ordinance number 2026-032
4:06:04 final with the uh change to October 1st, 2027 as the ending date of the moratorum.
4:06:12 Second.
4:06:14 Have a motion and a second for approval of item number where we at? Uh 16, ordinance number 2026-031
4:06:23 with the change of uh ending date being 1 October 2027.
4:06:28 I have a question. Yeah. Further discussion, please. Any further discussion? Yes.
4:06:32 Yeah. So the original language I think I need our attorney. I want to make sure we get this right.
4:06:37 If we say October 1st, 2027, does the looking for the extension, the renewal, can we still renew it?
4:06:47 Yeah. I mean, I think what if based on the motion as is the way that we would redline it, so to speak, would be to put
4:06:56 an expiration of October 1, 2027, and allow uh extensions of six months.
4:07:03 You're killing me. You didn't make these all the same, so I don't know what paragraph. They're little. They're called handcrafted ordinances.
4:07:09 What paragraph am I looking at? Section seven, duration.
4:07:16 The duration may be extended by resolution for an additional period of 6 months. Right. So, we'd say October 1st, 2027. And then keep that last sentence. Sure.
4:07:24 Are we good with that?
4:07:25 I just needed clarity. I think you're fine. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Great.
4:07:30 Okay. You amend the motion and you amend the second. Okay. He didn't amend the motion.
4:07:35 He didn't amend it. It's he all he's amending is section 7 paragraph 1 or excuse me section 7 sentence one instead
4:07:43 of saying 6 months it will say October 1st 2027 still allows the six month extension. Yeah.
4:07:50 Okay. If there are no further discussion council member Strange I.
4:07:57 Council member Bain I.
4:07:58 Council member Myers I.
4:08:00 Council member Peterson I. And chair vote I as well. Motion carries 50. Item number 17 is off Sky.
4:08:08 Yes. 17 go to the end of the agenda.
4:08:10 Item number 18, resolution number 2026-026R.
4:08:15 A resolution of the city council of the city of Clermont, Lake County, Florida, granting a conditional use permit to allow for a veterinary clinic to operate
4:08:23 within the M1 industrial zoning district uses providing for conflict severability, administrative correction of scrivener's error, publication, and an effective date.
4:08:35 Good evening, mayor, city council members and guests. Nick and Development Services. This is agenda item 18.
4:08:42 The applicant elite veterinary specialist is requesting a conditional use permit to allow a veterinary clinic to operate within the M1 Industrial
4:08:50 Zoning District. The subject property is located at 235 Hatteris Avenue, Sweet 100 within an approximately.7 acre
4:08:58 parcel. The subject's site is located within an established industrial office area. It is surrounded by compatible uses typical of M1 zoning.
4:09:08 Elite Veterinary Specialists is proposing a specialty veterinary clinic that will provide advanced medical and surgical care beyond general veterinary
4:09:16 services with a specific focus on opthalmology. The clinic will operate entirely within the building and will be limited to small animals only, consisting of canine and feline species.
4:09:27 No large animals such as horses, cows, swine, or other livestock will be permitted. The clinic will offer
4:09:34 appointments and surgical procedures, but will not provide boarding of animals. The clinic's hours of operation will be six days a week, Monday through
4:09:43 Friday from 8:30 to 5:30 p.m. and Saturday from 8:30 to 2:00 p.m. Should the clinic wish to provide a designated
4:09:50 outdoor area for animal relief or exercise, the area must be must include a way station managed by the clinic with
4:09:57 animals monitored, leashed, and not left unattended.
4:10:01 Based on the clinic's specialization, operating parameters, and proposed conditions, staff finds a vet veterary clinic to be appropriate for the
4:10:09 location and consistent with the intent of the district. When evaluating a request for a CUP, the land development code section 101-212
4:10:19 requires specific development standards that are required to be met. Staff has reviewed the application as submitted in accordance with the development
4:10:26 standards criteria and fi and finds the proposed use can meet the general criteria for granting a cup. The proposed use will not be detrimental to
4:10:35 the health, safety, and welfare of the surrounding community. The planning and zoning commission recommended approval 50 and staff recommends approval of the
4:10:43 conditional use permit with the conditions contained in resolution number 2026- 026R.
4:10:51 That concludes SAS presentation. Thank you. Is the applicant present?
4:11:05 Good evening. Good evening.
4:11:07 Thank you for that break earlier. I've been mourning um Dolly Parton all afternoon. So uh um my name is Angie Langley with Langley Consulting Group in
4:11:16 Clermont, Florida representing the applicant. Um they did a great job with the presentation. So I'm going to keep
4:11:23 my comments brief. Uh the applicant is here today as well as the owner of the property. So um as mentioned, Elite Vet
4:11:31 specialists are leaders in the very specialized field of opthalmology and they only serve K9 and feline
4:11:38 patients for appointments and consultations um and surgical procedures only. So there's no boarding, no overnights, no grooming or anything like
4:11:48 that. We would like to thank the planning and zoning commission for their unanimous support of this and Kurt Henchel and staff for their support and
4:11:55 recommendation for approval. Also, they've been great to work with um and helpful with our application process. So we are here and happy to answer any questions you may have.
4:12:06 And if we have any question, we will call you back up later. Thank you. Uh this is a public forum. Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item? May
4:12:14 come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
4:12:17 Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
4:12:23 Seeing no one, I close down the chamber portion of public comments. Anyone online? No one online. I close down public comment. Where say you, Mr. B?
4:12:32 No questions, Mr. Mayor. Miss Myers. No questions. Mr. Peterson.
4:12:37 So this uh this center is just for opthalmology. Is that what you're saying?
4:12:40 Yes. So it seems like such a unique practice that I mean it's it's is it is that the only opthalmology veterary
4:12:48 clinic in the area? I mean um well I know that they currently are here operating um in another facility.
4:12:56 So they've had this market for a while but he can I'm not sure I I never checked their competition.
4:13:03 No I mean it's such a great thing. I mean, you know, you know, you people love their animals and, you know, it's it's a great thing to be able to to preserve sight for an animal.
4:13:14 Yes.
4:13:14 Yes. So, u my name is Gerald Swinger Vargas and I want to operate the practices. Um we have many locations in South Florida and uh here we have a location in
4:13:23 Castleberry um which we have been u operating for almost two years. Um there's other competitions around the
4:13:30 area and um we are currently operating out of kinetic veterinary specialists as well but we have our grown practice
4:13:37 releasing space from them and we we're looking to expand our own operation in our own building. Thank you. Yeah. All we do is opthalmology.
4:13:46 Right. That's it. Council member Strange.
4:13:53 Yep. I have a couple questions. I'm curious why this application needed to come to council. What is it about this
4:14:00 that is it's in a commercial district ordinance?
4:14:05 Yeah. So, in the M1 industrial zoning, it's a conditional use permit for vet at any veterary clinic.
4:14:14 Okay. Has to have a cup. Yep.
4:14:17 It's in our ordinance and ordinance that any veterary clinic has to have a CUP. So, it has to come before the council. Stay there.
4:14:24 Yes, ma'am.
4:14:26 Is a pet pig considered swine for purposes of prohibited customers?
4:14:34 I'm not I'm not an expert in uh in swine. Um but if the I'm not sure what the uh the operator do
4:14:42 you guys What was the question?
4:14:44 I feel like this is going to be the chicken ordinance. We do, but we do it.
4:14:49 It would be the blind pie. You only cast a dog.
4:14:52 They They do, but they only do it at the barns. So, the only animals that are coming into the facility are K9 and feline species.
4:15:00 Oh, you're okay with that restriction?
4:15:02 Yeah, but we don't Yes, we're okay with that restriction.
4:15:04 Okay. I just didn't want No, I went to school at Sc University. We had the blind pig pub and so that is
4:15:11 funny that you said that um for me. No one else got it. It's not a funny joke.
4:15:15 Um, it seems to me, and I don't want to make a thing that doesn't need to be made, but there's a number seven says, if the
4:15:24 parking is deemed inadequate, then the applicant agrees that it has the right to amend or revoke the conditional use permit. And normally I'm the one asking
4:15:33 about the human friendly nature of a project. In this case, I'm asking about the animal friendly nature of a project.
4:15:40 And it seems to me that there's an awful lot of parking on this site. And if the applicant wanted to create an outdoor
4:15:48 space for animals to relieve themselves, that might be more humane than having them go on a parking lot. Is that
4:15:56 something that we're really concerned about? Is the parking here or could they make that modification if they wanted to so long as parking remains adequate?
4:16:04 It we believe the parking is adequate on on the site. That's usually standard language that we add in all the conditional use permits. Um, as far as
4:16:12 the area, um, I know in the planning and zoning they mentioned that the rear of the property would be one of the
4:16:18 locations for animal relief. Uh, but if they did decide to uh to put it in a different location, they would go
4:16:26 through the the site review and and we as long as parking wasn't affected, uh,
4:16:34 then it could be accommodated. I mean, does the code have I believe the answer is yes, a certain number of parking spaces that they must have
4:16:42 for that building. Yeah, there's a number based off of uh the uses. Yeah.
4:16:47 Um as long as that they don't go below that number, then then we're good. But there's an adequate number of uh parking spaces.
4:16:56 Okay. So, I just want to make sure we don't worry too much about parking spaces. If the animals need a space, personal.
4:17:02 I have a dog and he goes where he wants to go. So, um, you need to train him. I I like hounds and they are stubborn.
4:17:11 So, if anyone wants to help, I will take it. Um, otherwise, those are the only questions that I have.
4:17:18 Uh, I really have no questions. I uh Okay with Mr. Bain.
4:17:24 Uh, I will support this. It's a specialty service. Uh, and it's an investment in our community. I see what you're doing there and I appreciate it.
4:17:33 Thank you. Oh, that was a joke. It was. That was funny. I see what you did.
4:17:41 You're on it tonight, Mars. I support this item as well.
4:17:48 I think this is a it's a it's a nice unique product that that you're the first one in Clermont to offer this.
4:17:55 So, I think it's real asset to our community that we're doing something like that. It's strange.
4:18:02 Um, yeah, I support it. I just would be a little more comfortable if the parking was a number instead of the picture so that you have flexibility in the future.
4:18:10 I don't know if that's something council supports or if our attorney could write into the ordinance because there's a picture here, but it doesn't say how many parking spaces they need.
4:18:19 And and it's also a shared space. So, there is an office there as well, a medical office. So they wouldn't be taking the entire entirety of the building.
4:18:27 I see. Then I'll let it go.
4:18:29 Yeah. Uh with the parking, uh it's another medical office there. And I think when this came in years ago, they had more for the two it was two offices
4:18:36 there and they had more than uh required space parking at that time. So um just to clarify with that, so the
4:18:44 owner is here of that property, that piece is divided into three separate offices. And the previous tenant to this
4:18:51 specific space was a medical use which had many more appointments than what this opthalmology and the parking has never ever been an issue. And there's
4:18:59 plenty of green space there for relief areas for dogs. There's more than one option for space for that. So parking is covered and pooping is covered as well.
4:19:09 That's important.
4:19:10 It's the second time tonight I say and and it's it's still one medical office still there, right? Okay.
4:19:17 All right. Uh entertain a motion.
4:19:20 I'd like to make a motion to let everybody go. Right. Yeah. Make a motion for ordinance number 2026-25.
4:19:29 No, that's dark sky. I went ahead of myself. Sorry about that. One more time. 2026-026R.
4:19:36 Exactly. Let me Oh, yeah.
4:19:42 2026- 026 R is in Romeo.
4:19:48 A second. Okay, I have a motion and a second for approval. Item number 18, resolution number 2026-026R.
4:19:56 Any further discussion?
4:19:58 Hear none. All in favor, let it be known by saying I. I. All oppose and the chair vote I as well.
4:20:03 Good luck, sir. Thank you and welcome to the community. Welcome to Clermont. Yes. Welcome to Clermont.
4:20:08 Item number 19, ordinance number 2026-025. Introduction.
4:20:14 An ordinance of the city council of the city of Clermont, Lake County, Florida.
4:20:18 Amending the code of ordinances by repealing section 2412 lighting of property and section 11512 lighting
4:20:26 facilities in their entirety. Creating a new chapter of the code of ordinances titled outdoor lighting and dark sky standards providing for purpose and
4:20:35 intent applicability definitions outdoor lighting standards including measurement methodology prohibited lighting hours of operation and adaptive controls.
4:20:45 Photometric plan submitt specific use applications exemptions phased implementation and retrofit variances
4:20:53 enforcement and penalties and in conflict with other provisions. Amending section 101352 site plan submittal requirements to
4:21:01 harmonize existing photometric plan requirements with the new dark sky standards. Amending section 1179
4:21:10 sign illumination to add color temperature and shielding requirements for illuminated signs. Amending section 11723
4:21:19 changeable copy and electronic message boards to add a color temperature cap for electronic message board signs.
4:21:26 Amending section 119 311 electric power lines and street lights to require subdivision street lights to comply with
4:21:33 the new chapter providing findings of consistency with the comprehensive plan providing for conflict severability codification the administrative
4:21:42 correction of scrivener's error publication and an effective date. All right.
4:21:51 Unless anybody has any are we I was going to ask the council are we gonna open up to the public please.
4:21:59 Okay. This is a public hearing. Anyone in the public wish to address this item?
4:22:03 Just a point of order. I I thought we agreed though a process. So I want to make sure that we're I thought the process we agreed to is we weren't going
4:22:11 to unless there was going to be substantial changes made by the council.
4:22:15 I have questions. So I don't know if they require changes or not.
4:22:18 I'm okay either way. Hey, I just want to make sure we adopt a process that we actually could the public knows we're going to put forward and that we all know what
4:22:27 we're going to put forward. So, I agree with you, Bryan.
4:22:31 Well, that's that's the reason I've always said far as I'm concerned, we need it when the introduction, we just read the introduction, we vote on it, and move it forward because every c
4:22:39 every councilman, the introduction come up, but we have to sit here and debate whether we going to have public opinion or not public opinion. I mean, this is going to happen all the time. Okay?
4:22:48 Well, I have questions and it's a first reading and we agreed if a council member had questions that we would move forward and I have questions and we saw the consequence of that earlier tonight.
4:22:58 So, yes, I have questions and I've asked to move forward and open it up to the public.
4:23:02 So, I got to say, okay, this is this is a public forum. Anyone in the public wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and
4:23:09 address and have three minutes. Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to mon state your name and address and have three minutes.
4:23:20 Yes, sir. Good evening, mayor, council members.
4:23:29 Mike Kramer, 208 Nautica Mile Drive. I'm really excited tonight to express my support for this ordinance and the
4:23:37 adoption of stronger outdoor lighting and dark skies standards for Clermont.
4:23:41 I think most of you know that the Clermont Yacht Club, which I uh live in, has already adopted that. We changed out 38 light poles this uh last year and the results were amazing.
4:23:53 Clermont's known as a gem in the hills and part of that what makes that our community special is its lakes, the neighborhoods, the natural beauty and
4:24:01 the quality of life. And as our city continues to grow, I believe we have a responsibility to make sure that this growth does not unnecessarily diminish
4:24:10 those qualities. This ordinance strikes a reasonable balance.
4:24:15 It does not eliminate outdoor lighting or compromise the need for safety and security. Instead, it establishes sensible, measurable standards so that
4:24:24 we put light where it's needed when it's needed without unnecessarily spilling onto neighboring properties or into the
4:24:31 night sky. I especially support the use of warmer lighting, better shielding, limits on light trespass, and reducing
4:24:39 unnecessary lighting after business hours. These are practical steps that can protect our residents and preserve the character of Clermont as we
4:24:47 continue to grow. So, I respectfully encourage the council to support ordinance 2026-025.
4:24:54 I believe this a positive and forward-looking step for Clermont and the quality of life both current and for
4:25:03 our future residents. So, thank you for your time. Thank you, sir.
4:25:08 This is the public phone. Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
4:25:15 Anyone else in the chamber?
4:25:18 Anyone else? Seeing no one else in the chamber, we closed public comment in the chamber. Anyone online, sir? No one online. We close public comment and bring it back to Mr.
4:25:28 Bain. What? Say Mr. Bain? Nothing at this time. Thank you. Council member Myers. Um, no question.
4:25:36 Council member Peterson.
4:25:37 I think it's a a great idea that we we start adopting the uh Dark Sky International Protocol. I mean, we I'm
4:25:45 getting there's there's this big push right now for under eave lighting in your homes and these can cause, you
4:25:52 know, we have to get some ordinances in place now. I know they were passing something over in Kings Ridge for this.
4:25:58 And I told them, you really got to you got to look at these things because that lighting could could make it look like an amusement park if it gets too. So, we
4:26:06 really got to we need to stay on top of this just like we need to stay on top of data centers and get an initiative done.
4:26:13 Thank you. Thank you, Council Member Strange.
4:26:17 Yes. Thank you. Um, who is the right person? Should I direct my question to the city manager or is there someone else who put this together?
4:26:26 This came ultimately from the city attorney's office.
4:26:29 Thank you. Um, can we get a chart like we had for the for the We had one tonight that had a chart. The
4:26:38 administrative I I know. Yeah. Yeah. That's horrible for the records.
4:26:42 Can we get a chart like we had for the administrative variance variance ordinance ordinance? Thank you.
4:26:48 So that's the first one. Um there's going to be a question that comes up later about installing flashing lights
4:26:55 for purposes of citizens crossing streets in the dark. And section 129-5
4:27:02 prohibited lighting specifically refers to blinking lights and flashing lights.
4:27:08 And I just want to know if that would be a problem for a pedestrian crossing if we decided to do that moving forward.
4:27:17 Well, u we have an exemption section for certain government lights. So I I will
4:27:23 say this is very I think complex um in terms of all the things that's changing all the
4:27:30 So I welcome any feedback, comments, thoughts. It's possible that something slipped through the net. Um, we've tried
4:27:37 to spend some time to get this consistent. Yeah. But I I definitely will look at that.
4:27:42 Um, and then there was so sports lighting installed in accordance with
4:27:48 industry standards is something that's prohibited.
4:27:54 Is that meant to say it's prohibited to install sports lights in accordance with industry standards?
4:28:05 Wait, unless it's in exceptions. Hold on.
4:28:08 It says except It says that it's prohibited to It's Yeah. So, it says it's prohibited
4:28:16 to do upward oriented lighting except as expressly permitted for sports lighting installed in accordance with industry
4:28:23 standards or as expressly permitted under section 129-9. And yes, it does kind of kick the can as to what that industry standard is.
4:28:32 Can we explore that a little bit?
4:28:34 Because I do think there's sports lighting that meets some sort of dark sky, but then there's some that don't. So, I just don't want it to end up being a substantial issue down the road if we can explore that.
4:28:46 Um, so there's several references in here about subdivisions.
4:28:51 Um, there's sign illumination, there's, um, so I'm not going to look at the
4:28:58 exceptions. um all new outdoor lighting for example and I'm wondering the city
4:29:05 has the ability to implement these dark sky requirements which I appreciate as lights are repaired or replaced. So in
4:29:15 other words at the end of their useful life but by 2036. So I just want everybody to know this is a 10-year plan and I'm fine with that.
4:29:23 But does this, the way it reads, compel private property owners, whether they're residential or commercial, to
4:29:32 immediately install dark sky compliant lights? No. Okay.
4:29:39 So, if I have a light in my yard that lights up a little tree, I'm not going to like I think this is
4:29:47 where having the chart would help because I have no idea what all these numbers mean and I don't want to vote on something
4:29:55 that I don't understand. So, a chart maybe user friendly pictures would be helpful like examples. Section 129-10
4:30:03 subb says existing nonconforming outdoor lighting shall be brought into compliance at the earlier of the time
4:30:11 the fixture is replaced, removed or modified or September 1, 2036.
4:30:16 So that's residential and commercial and city. Everybody's got the same except for those that are exempted. Yes.
4:30:23 Okay. Got it. And if I read this correctly, the state of Florida and Lake County are exempt from this.
4:30:31 Yes. Can we make them comply? Compel Lake County to do our bidding? Yeah.
4:30:37 Um uh perhaps in certain situations.
4:30:44 So So can we write those situations into this ordinance? I will give it some thought.
4:30:49 I appreciate that. Thanks. But not the state. We can't do anything about the state. No.
4:30:55 What uh what about point me to it? Um if the state owns land that's not roadways, are
4:31:04 they exempt or can we compel them if they own land within the city that's like a what we might call a commercial property or civic space?
4:31:11 It would not be an ideal challenge for us. No. Okay. But are they specifically exempt?
4:31:19 Yeah, they might as well be. Yeah. Okay. Uh, let me see.
4:31:24 Be like the federal government. We we can't tell Uncle Sam what to do.
4:31:29 Well, I don't know if I agree with that, but we we can have that conversation another day, another time. Um, okay. So, I think the biggest things that jump out
4:31:37 at me then are having some sort of chart, addressing the blinking and flashing lights, and that'll be more clear, I think, at the next item, and then looking into the sports fields.
4:31:52 And how many subdivisions would you say in Clermont have their own street lighting?
4:32:00 I don't know the answer to that.
4:32:04 We might want to notify the HOAs of this to get their feedback is a suggestion.
4:32:12 2036 is when for me it's kind of a good faith thing like this is going to be expensive which is going to be my final question. Um, I
4:32:20 think it's going to be expensive and even though every HOA has notice of these meetings and what's going on in it, I think at least sending them a
4:32:28 notice to say, "Hey, so you know, we're looking to adopt an ordinance that requires you to change all your lights over the next 10 years." I think knowing their feedback would be helpful. It
4:32:36 might be that they're all excited about it, like Mr. Kramer. Or they might say, "Oh, heck no." And then we've got a chamber full of people who are furious because they didn't know about it. And
4:32:45 so I just want to kind of give people a heads up. And then my final question is has any and I'm supportive of this. I
4:32:52 think Bill you brought it up. So just know I love the idea. Um but have we looked into the cost of this and what it might cost us over time?
4:33:01 I believe I saw a zero from the audience. So I'm interested in what he has to say.
4:33:05 I think staff is aware that that's an issue. I don't know if there's been a study done. study. Yeah,
4:33:12 there is a study or there's no study but all the fixtures have to all the parking lot fixtures lighting
4:33:19 sorry just very very high level most all of our fixtures might have LED lights in them but the fixture itself is not
4:33:28 compliant so just for example parking all the lighting in the parking lot would have to be changed the head unit along the trail there's a bunch of
4:33:36 lighting those would have to be changed right no studies been done but we can just see it's It's going to be expensive unless you exempt the city.
4:33:45 Well, I don't want to do that. But I wouldn't mind tying it to grant like making it aspirational and I don't know
4:33:52 the best way to do it, but that's why I'm bringing it up now. So, I'm not doing this at the final reading and and having us feel like we've published it and gone through. So, I would like to
4:34:00 have some idea of what the cost difference is in replacing, you know, our existing lamps with whatever this means because if it's 10 times the cost,
4:34:08 I think we need to know that. If it's two times the cost, we need to know that. If it's 25% increase, then maybe we don't care. But if if I'm voting to
4:34:17 do this and I'm kind of committing the future 10 years down the road, I look like the bad guy when, you know, and I
4:34:24 don't want to be that person. So, those are my questions.
4:34:27 Council member Strange, would you yield for a second?
4:34:29 Absolutely. I'm done. I think I actually asked a similar question in in my agenda review and um I asked for
4:34:36 staff to go to Groveland in any other city that's already adopted to find out have they started to replace anything, what those costs, what the
4:34:45 process looked like, what did it entail, how long did it take, etc. to just get a gauge, yeah, of what's happening out there because
4:34:53 Groveland did implement a dark sky ordinance and I'm sure that there are other cities if we looked in in Florida that has done that that we might be able
4:35:00 to get some data from. Might not be a full comprehensive report, but we could at least get some data from them. And what what were you told?
4:35:08 I think they agreed that we would do that. Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Oh, you done? Well, so my my then question would be if we need more
4:35:16 time for the attorney, if this wasn't on the next agenda, but it was on the following one, are we okay for compliance purposes in case staff needs more time to answer my question?
4:35:26 Are are we okay for compliance purposes if we because this is a first reading. So if it takes more time to get that information,
4:35:33 that's okay. Okay, Mr. Mayorweather.
4:35:37 Um U council member Strange, go ahead.
4:35:40 Yeah. to to answer your question specifically, we'll have the cost information for you at the next meeting.
4:35:46 I've already reached out. So, we have approximately several thousand Duke Energy lights that
4:35:53 we lease from them. They'll have to be changed out. They're throughout all the older portion of the community neighborhoods. Um, all of our trail lights will be doing that work in house.
4:36:03 We have those costs. I we just don't have those right now, but we're working on it and that's totally fine. And and so I think my final question would be for
4:36:11 council as we go through comments given that this is new and it's potentially I mean it feels big. I don't necessarily want to workshop it but I wouldn't mind
4:36:19 if count if staff made their presentation maybe at the next meeting.
4:36:23 That gives the public another chance to see what's going on and we give us time to come back to the meeting after that before we vote on this. So I'm going to put that out for you all to think about
4:36:32 as you're as you're responding. And I'm done with my questions. Thank you for them. I appreciate it.
4:36:37 Mr. Mayor Mr. Mr. Mayorweather, before you go, I know we just went through the process of changing out all our street lights to LEDs. Yes, sir, we did.
4:36:45 Do we do we remember how much that that cost? And I know this process going to be a lot lot worse. I know we That was actually a net savings for the
4:36:53 city. Duke did not charge us to change things out to LED. So, that did lower our overall operational cost year-over-year.
4:37:03 uh changing them to a dark skies kind of environment. I don't think
4:37:10 there's going to be a big cost per light, but I I don't know what that cost is. There will be something.
4:37:17 But wasn't some of them they changed that when they did the LEDs went to LED, they put some dark skies in there as well.
4:37:23 Well, there there were several citizens that reached out as soon as we implemented LEDs that had concerns about
4:37:31 light spillage. So, there are a handful, okay, of lights citywide that have baffles that were more restricted on
4:37:39 purpose to to deal with specific properties, but they weren't switched to dark skies. Okay.
4:37:46 So, it's it's available. Duke's aware of it. I've discussed it many times with the Duke street lighting representative.
4:37:53 We just weren't there yet. So, now we are.
4:37:57 Yeah. Well, I know I discussed with him what, three years ago at the conference three years. just trying to get them before we switched out the LEDs, trying
4:38:04 to get them do that. And we talked about dark skies back then.
4:38:07 And and in fairness, it took them multiple years to get the entire city shifted to LEDs. Um I would anticipate
4:38:15 this would be something we would implement over numerous budgets. If we have a 10-year window, okay, you know, I'm not going to wait till
4:38:23 year nine and go, got to get it done. So yeah. Well, if there's some out there we can go ahead and start getting getting done, I would like to see that. But Mr.
4:38:32 uh Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Mr. W. Um I think it said we talked about other subdivisions like uh Kings Red uh Summit
4:38:42 Greens and everything. Can we actually do an ordinance and force them to go go to dark sky? Make them do the dark skies when they kind of like do their own lighting?
4:38:51 Okay. Well, because right now I think the only subdivision that's required to use dog sky. The only area is is Wellness Way. Is it Kurt? Wellness way
4:39:00 has that was other thing that we look at that ordinance and compare what they doing down there with what our ordinance?
4:39:09 I didn't compare it with Wellness Way. I did compare it with Groveland um but I didn't look at wellness way standards actually.
4:39:15 Well, I didn't think I I wasn't sure, but I I I would like to make sure we what they doing in Wellness Way is somewhat similar to what we what we
4:39:24 trying to do here with I'm already have we already have a problem with Wellness Way having their own set of ordinance and guidelines down there compared to
4:39:31 what here. So, we can do something similar to keep everything similar. Can we go back and look at that? And that's the only questions I have, sir. Uh Mr.
4:39:39 Bain, I'll use my comment time, I guess, for a question then. Um, should we You didn't You didn't have a question.
4:39:49 Didn't we start with me? Yeah.
4:39:54 Yeah, I know. That's Well, now I have a question though based off this. So, I'll use my statement time for the question.
4:39:59 Um, sorry, I got confused there. Um c should can we can we
4:40:08 do we approve the intro knowing that this final is going to look very different and potentially not be in two
4:40:17 weeks or are we better served tableabling the intro
4:40:24 and going forward that way? I I I guess I I am concerned about that because I just want to make sure we do this the right way procedurally because it sounds
4:40:31 like we're not going to uh have this before us in two weeks for a final.
4:40:38 It it's already advertised for for next meeting, but we can table it at that one if we still need more time.
4:40:44 It'll be on the agenda, but you just table it September 8th.
4:40:48 So, we need to approve the intro in order for it to be on there.
4:40:51 No. Yeah. you you you have complete authority to table as you wish or postpone as you wish. Even it's advertisement. I mean, we can put
4:41:00 something else out if we have to. Um, it doesn't have to be on your It's like we take things off the agenda at meetings sometimes, you know? So, that's not an impediment to your actions.
4:41:09 Well, that's what I figured. I mean, I I get that that just because it's been advertised, we don't have to have it on the agenda. That's correct.
4:41:17 Um, it's just been noticed. We can't we can't put it on the agenda if it hasn't been but we can't we don't have to have it on there. So
4:41:26 your preference for us for our action then council member it depends because I've heard a lot of different comments. It's true and I don't know what the final
4:41:34 shape is going to be. Um it's a big ordinance but I'm not sure what the final shape is. Like I could envision
4:41:41 being able to pass it at the second. I know that sounds crazy, but I I could envision it because a lot of the discussion I've heard is still on topic
4:41:50 with the things being implemented, if that makes sense.
4:41:54 Okay. Then if that if that's the case, I'd be okay approving the intro tonight and giving staff the two weeks um to
4:42:02 bring it back at the next meeting for a final. and if we need to, we table or
4:42:09 address it at that point. Thank you, M. Myers.
4:42:13 Um, I'm ready to Well, y'all probably aren't ready to make a motion on this. I am.
4:42:19 Mr. Pet Mr. Peterson, I I mean, I I think we keep on talking about cost, but we also got to think
4:42:27 about what what we're talking about with with the D, you know, dark sky. It's something that we have to preserve, you
4:42:34 know. I mean it's it's you know it's something that we it's very important for not for our citizens sometimes you
4:42:42 don't want to do something because of money but this isn't really going to be costing money because we're going to be constantly have to change things anyway
4:42:50 and as far as going you know like if we go into subdivisions we can mandate them when they change their lights just like when you know anything else that these
4:42:58 are the these are the lights that are accepted street lights for for the city of Clermont and they have to have certain amount of baffles, certain
4:43:06 amount of lumens, certain amount of spread out etc. And I think it's important that we either accept it or we you know we we can we can always find
4:43:14 something wrong with anything. But you know I think this is the overall picture I think is good and if we have to tweak it later like a city attorney can tweak
4:43:24 whatever we need to have tweaked out you know as far as you know how many lumens but there is a standard already and it's you know we we even have proof now in
4:43:31 Groveland has it so we can utilize them as our template to you know how to set it up. So, with that, I'd like to make a motion.
4:43:41 No, Miss Strange.
4:43:43 Um, yeah, I'm happy moving forward. I think that at least the public has knowledge of what the concerns might be and what they are and our attorney has
4:43:51 knowledge of that. Um, when it comes back, I would like to see some sort of user-friendly chart. I'd like to see the comparison to Wellness Way. I'd like to
4:43:58 see the standard um, you comparison with Groveland and any other examples that we can find. And I'm okay if that takes more time. I like it. Um, also a cost
4:44:06 estimate. It sounds like there might be grants or something because I saw a zero on the cost. So, I just want to get those questions answered before we go into the final, but I'm happy to move forward tonight.
4:44:15 Okay. As I said, Mr. W, if we can go back and look at what uh the ordinance we have for Wellness Way, cuz they already under dark sky ordinance down
4:44:23 there and make sure we kind of like in line with them. Uh, yes, I know Groveland been under dark sky now for about four years. Uh we can look at we
4:44:31 can kind of like look at them, but I want to make sure we stay consistent here and come out with what we already got going and if we need to tweak that
4:44:38 and everything. Uh uh I'm hoping that maybe what call it cost like when we switched over to LEDs as Mr. Mayor Weber
4:44:46 say we actually save it didn't cost us as much money. So if we can um get with Duke Energy, I seen you have a good
4:44:54 report with Duke Energy. You just did the contract with new contract with them. Maybe see what what they can do for us. uh for starting this get them switched over. I would appreciate it,
4:45:02 but I can support it. Okay. I entertain a motion.
4:45:07 I'd like to make a motion to uh ordinance number 2026. A second.
4:45:14 Have a motion and a second for intro of ordinance number 2026-025.
4:45:22 Any further discussions? Hearing none. All in favor? There be no by saying I. I. All oppose and chair voter as well.
4:45:31 Motion carries 501. Item number 20, uh, council member request. I think this is you, miss.
4:45:39 This one is mine. Um, I have had the pleasure of working with city staff and Miss Valerie Shuitt. I know she wasn't
4:45:47 here. I don't know if she's still here on um the the informal committee of trails and parks. Um and just seeing
4:45:55 what the community is interested in and East Avenue, I think, was a really exciting kind of first chance to see what a a pedestrian friendly bike path
4:46:04 could be that would lead into not one but two schools in this case. Um and since east has been done, and in
4:46:11 fairness to Mr. Mayworm and his team. I have not had any conversation with him, so he's caught off guard to the extent that except to the extent that Mr. Van
4:46:19 Wagner's talked to him, but East Avenue was resurfaced, which is wonderful. Um, but it's a big black top right now,
4:46:26 which does not lend itself to feeling safe riding a bike or walking, especially if you're thinking about your
4:46:34 elementary or middle school child going to one of those two schools. So, what I'd like to do is hear from staff. Um,
4:46:42 there was questions as I understood it about the time it might take to get engineering of a new concept. And so,
4:46:49 what I provided in the packet is something that we've already paid to have engineered as a city. This was done years ago. And it's not the complete
4:46:58 street. It's not the big expensive solution. It's literally paint. Um, I'm saying paint. I'm oversimplifying that.
4:47:07 But the idea is that it's the equivalent of whatever the road equivalent of paint is. And to be able to create a solution
4:47:14 to get teachers parking, which is important, to get the kids a safe bike path to school, and also maybe to slow some people down by narrowing that road
4:47:23 on East Avenue. And it's not necessarily the end- all beall, but what I'd love to see happen is whatever staff needs from
4:47:30 us, if whether it's funding, what whatever direction they might need, that we can get East Avenue as a great
4:47:37 example of what of of a thing we could do to make a bike friendly, walker friendly path for children to get to
4:47:46 school safely and families to get to school safely. So that's the reason for this. So actually, if Mr. Mayworm is
4:47:54 here and he can speak more intelligently to this, that would be amazing and I would welcome it.
4:47:59 Uh Jim Mayworm, assistant director of public services. Um thank you for bringing these forward because I had this scheduled for the September 8th
4:48:07 meeting. If you remember originally when we talked about resurfacing East Avenue, we had made a commitment to explore the
4:48:16 opportunity to build bike lanes. So I was bringing that initiative forward to bring that to conclusion. Uh so we we
4:48:24 have a concept design from an engineering firm that puts a bike lane
4:48:31 on both sides of the street and that cost is approximately $65,000 on a change order from our paving contractor.
4:48:41 I did bring that concept and proposal to the greenways group because I'd like their input on that.
4:48:48 um they really preferred the option that was in your packet that council member
4:48:56 Strange has forwarded to. Now that concept came from the 2019 complete
4:49:03 street study. This was offered as an interim solution until the entire road
4:49:12 could be reconstructed, rebuilt, and the concept number three um that was
4:49:19 approved by city council back in 2019 could be implemented. So, both of these
4:49:26 concepts that we have right now were always considered to be temporary to get us going in the right direction. and
4:49:35 with the vision that we were going to do something better down the road. Um, you have
4:49:43 I I have the the other engineered one. Yes, do have copies of that.
4:50:08 Thank you, sir. Thank you, young man.
4:50:27 It looks like only one lane. There we go.
4:50:39 Now, this this concept that you have in front of you that I'm showing on the screen, we did this with the idea that
4:50:46 it was going to be inexpensive, quick, and not as impactful to some of
4:50:53 the neighbors. Uh, one thing that we're looking at is there are residences up and down East Avenue and the people park
4:51:02 their cars in front of their homes. Um, this particular plan wouldn't be super disruptive to that. Um, so we just sort
4:51:10 of took that into consideration. Um, there are limitations with this plan.
4:51:15 Again, it was intended to be only quick and fairly inexpensive with an eye towards something bigger and better down the road.
4:51:28 Any questions about this by chance?
4:51:30 This this plan I'm looking seeing right kind of small, but we have a bike lane on both sides.
4:51:36 That's correct. So, bike lane on the east side of the street could be heading northbound. on the west side of the
4:51:43 street could be heading southbound and it does cross 50 and continue down to Minihaha. Okay. In this particular plan.
4:51:51 And how wide is the bike lane? Only four feet wide.
4:51:55 That's how we're capable of putting one on each side of the street.
4:52:02 Now, the the two-way concept that is in your packet that's that's shown here,
4:52:10 that's an 8 foot, maybe 10 foot wide bike lane, but you have both directions on the same side of the street. That
4:52:18 would require a little bit more engineering because we're offsetting the driving lanes to the west in lie of what
4:52:28 we're doing what this other plan shows where the driving lanes basically stay where there are towards the middle of the road and we're just taking four feet
4:52:36 on either side. So, we tried to simplify this concept here. this particular plan,
4:52:43 um, the one that's in your packet, gives us a much greater opportunity to protect
4:52:50 and to provide maybe a safer, better environment for people cycling than the one on either side of the street.
4:53:00 Thank you, I mean, I would love to get the public's take on it at this point.
4:53:12 Hello.
4:53:13 This is a public forum. Anyone in the chamber wish to uh speak to this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
4:53:20 Valerie Shu at 931 West Montra Street.
4:53:22 Um I think we're right now calling ourselves the Clermont Greenways action team. It's been shifting. We're trying
4:53:30 on new things. Um but advocates for walkability and multimodal transport and uh yeah, East Avenue has been there's been conversations. I've talked with Jim. Um, our group has talked about it.
4:53:41 Um, and I do prefer, and overall I think the group would agree, we prefer the concept that's in the packet just for a
4:53:50 few reasons. There's always a tension when you're talking about, and you know, Jim acknowledged this as well, when you're talking about stop gap versus
4:53:58 what's the long-term play and like where do we go with it. Um, but a stop gap solution still has to be useful and safe
4:54:07 or else it's it's not really going to do anything. Um, and so the thing about an unbuffered two 4 foot bike lanes, that's
4:54:16 like what we have on the side of 50 some places on the side of 27. You don't really see people in those. Those those aren't safe. It puts you right next to
4:54:23 oncoming traffic. I would have real concerns about that on a road where we're talking about safe routes to school especially. So for me,
4:54:32 the stop gap, it has to serve something and it has to be something people use.
4:54:35 And I just don't think I think we could give ourselves a pat on the back for it and say we put a bike lane there, but it's not actually going to be super
4:54:42 functional. Um, so I would prefer to not do that or I think the next be best option that we have is the is the
4:54:51 concept work you all did when you were doing the complete streets. And what's interesting about what's in your packet is um it probably is going to work
4:55:00 really well. Like it's not something I don't think it's something that's going to need to be redone or replay. I mean I love a full complete street, don't get
4:55:07 me wrong. We just have a lot of this work to do around Clermont as a whole.
4:55:12 So, and then when you can expand the network, when you can go beyond one street or one route, it it amplifies and
4:55:20 multiplies the impact of the, you know, that one route that you did. So, I think that's where I'm stuck in the tension.
4:55:28 So, this solution is great because um yes, the bike lane is all on one side.
4:55:32 That's not a bad thing, especially if we have safe crossings when it comes to get to the schools. The kids can cross.
4:55:37 There's always crossing guards in the morning. Um it's a wider space so you can have traffic going both ways in the bike lane. There is a buffer which is
4:55:46 super important and then in addition to that there is on street parking which provides an additional buffer to the bike way. So this is a space where
4:55:55 people are just natur I mean precedent shows the data shows there's case studies to show um these things uh get used when they're in the right places
4:56:03 and there's people around them that need to use them. So that's why we support the concept in the packet. It does require more like Jim said. I think um
4:56:11 that's the to me that's the minimum of what makes it really usable though. And I I think it could last for a long time.
4:56:17 Like if it's working, what's the rush to go in and build out this full complete street? I'm just going to wrap this up if you guys don't mind. Um in another
4:56:26 minute or so. Um making sure I'm representing some of the thoughts.
4:56:33 Um yeah, I think that's the gist. I think East is easier to retrofit than most
4:56:41 streets because of the width of the pave that's already there. So, the concept you have in the packet, I think most of it can happen on the street that's
4:56:50 already paved. Um, in my mind and in some of the conversations that we had about this, we were looking at for like a first start, maybe it goes from the
4:56:59 cemetery right there around Bishop Field to like Grand Avenue, for example. We don't necessarily want to take kids right up to 50 right now. Um that's not
4:57:08 a safe crossing at the moment. But it's an interesting idea to think that, you know, maybe we could run the easier concept then on the other side of South.
4:57:15 I don't know. Um there's a lot of nuances to that. So our group would be happy to continue to speak into this,
4:57:22 but I think um you all could really get behind the concept that's already in the packet. There's been work and design work in that. And what I can say from a
4:57:29 big picture planning perspective is that any version of the um master plan um
4:57:38 greenways trail map all has east avenue in it. Um so it's there um and it's something I think we could invest in appropriately.
4:57:48 Thank you. It's anemic Regency Hills. Good evening.
4:57:56 Uh, quick question. It might be for staff. I'd like to know the width of the road.
4:58:02 Okay. And then when we get the width of the road, let's minus the four feet of the bike lane. Is that a safety concern?
4:58:09 That's my only question I have for staff. Thank you.
4:58:11 Safety for the children or safety for the cars.
4:58:16 Safety for the I didn't hear. I walked away. I'm sorry. I'm tired.
4:58:20 You said is it a safety concern? Did you mean for the children or for the cars? I'm I'm always for the children. For the children. Okay.
4:58:25 All right. because I mean you know they're replaceable. Children aren't.
4:58:32 Yes, sir.
4:58:36 Hello. I'm France living. I'm currently 11904 Elbert Street which is right outside of the city limit but also with
4:58:45 property at 110 West Oyola Street where my daughter lives and which is right on the corner East Avenue and Oyola. So, I
4:58:54 fully support um Miss Strange, Council Member Strange's proposal. I also support the urgency to get to get it
4:59:03 done for safety reasons. Um I lived at the house or my wife lived there. I was still working up north, but uh came down
4:59:12 few several times, but in two and a half years, we witnessed not being out all the time outside on the street, but
4:59:19 three accidents. um two of them hit and runs on bicycles, one pedestrian uh two
4:59:26 in daylight, one at night uh for one the hit and run at night. I called police or 911 uh to come and assist the person who
4:59:35 was hit. And uh so just seeing that I think it's very important that our children um adults, bikers, pedestrians
4:59:44 can move safely and I certainly support um rapid change to slow down traffic on East Avenue. Thank you much.
4:59:53 Thank you. Thank you. This is a public forum.
4:59:57 Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
5:00:02 This is a public forum. Anyone in the chamber wish to address this item may come to the microphone, state your name and address and have three minutes.
5:00:10 Seeing no one else in chamber or anyone online, sir? All right. First caller, go ahead.
5:00:20 Hi Clair, 575 West Minola Avenue. Um, first of all, I would like to thank Councilwoman Strange for bringing uh
5:00:28 this up with city council. I really appreciate this. And similarly, I would like to thank Valerie Schuitt for being relentless in her leadership uh to get
5:00:38 us to the point where we are in such a short period of time because she has been a leader in this. I fully support
5:00:45 um the plans that have been brought forward. I have only been in Clermont for about a year and a half and I was
5:00:54 surprised at how wide East Avenue was considering that there are two schools along that road and the width of the
5:01:01 lane is actually directed with the speed that the people driving it. So I thought at the time well thank god that this road is full of potholes because it's
5:01:10 actually slowing the cars down. Uh now as you know this has been resurfaced and I see more instances of speeding. So to
5:01:18 me this particular proposal is not only about having a safe space for children to be able to bike to school. It is also
5:01:26 about narrowing the lanes to get them not too narrow but rather right size so that cars can flow. They can move at a
5:01:36 safe speed that is more appropriate for a school. And again I fully support this. Um we can obviously talk about the details about the particular design.
5:01:46 manage this engineer. I'm just very happy that we're finally talking about fixing East Avenue. Thank you.
5:01:52 Thank you. Next caller.
5:02:03 Yes. Hello. This is Jenny May and I live at 4062 Greystone Drive. Um, I just wanted to
5:02:11 say, you know, as a proud resident stakeholder in Clermont, I'm here tonight because I support Councilwoman Strange's request and the plan as shown
5:02:19 in the agenda for a dedicated bike and pedestrian friendly pathway on East Avenue. As our city continues to grow, we need to make sure our Bible
5:02:27 neighborhoods corridors don't get left behind. I saw this firsthand and I want to thank Valerie for inviting myself and
5:02:34 others um on these bike audits. It really really truly gets us uh to see
5:02:42 what it how it is to actually bike and walk on these on these streets. Um but I do appreciate the committee um let me
5:02:51 tell you navigating that stretch safely on a actually it was on a Saturday morning um it was a pretty daunting
5:02:59 judge. Um, most importantly, we need our children to be safe when they want to ride their bikes or walk to school. That
5:03:06 starts with practical safety upgrades, including a large high visibility crosswalk, I believe, that she stated,
5:03:13 between uh the two schools, uh, Cole and I believe it's Cypress Ridge, um, to protect our our our children. Um, I
5:03:22 think the city could possibly apply for a grant, um, through the FDOT safety routes uh, to school program. I think
5:03:29 that could be a possibility on on funding. Um, but I believe that, you know, the investing in a safe multi-use
5:03:36 pathway with colored pave markings uh that is shown in the agenda um would do more than just you know concrete. That
5:03:43 project can be fantastic first step um and probably a model that will multiply to other neighborhoods across our city.
5:03:50 Um I believe let's you know let's keep Clermont moving forward safely, walkable, bikable and connected to everyone. So, um, Councilwoman Stra, thank you so much for this. Good night.
5:04:03 Thank you. Anyone else want since no one else is on on virtual, we will close down public comment and bring back council. We'll say you, Mr. Bain.
5:04:14 Thank you, mayor. Um, questions for staff.
5:04:20 How long what Let me ask this. What would it take for us to do
5:04:28 the big plan version? The one the two one lane one way, one lane the other
5:04:34 all the way from I think Lakeshore to Grand.
5:04:38 Right. So that particular concept uh we're prepared and ready to go as soon as the change order would be approved.
5:04:47 And that's I think you said 65,000.
5:04:50 That's correct. 65,835 to be specific.
5:04:54 And would you assuming you brought that ne at the next meeting and it's approved when would work actually take place?
5:05:05 Probably a few weeks from now.
5:05:06 So it would actually be done then by when could as early as I'm going to give myself some space November 1st.
5:05:15 Okay. So by the end of this calendar year absolutely.
5:05:19 Okay. So, what's in our packet is a different version, right?
5:05:23 Which is uh more in line with a complete street proposal. Absolutely.
5:05:29 Um it appears as though there are some
5:05:37 changes that would be made to East Avenue that would be more than just adding a bike lane. And what I mean by
5:05:44 that is it would be shifting where the lanes of travel would be, right?
5:05:50 Would that require changes in where cars are allowed to park on East Avenue? Yes. Okay.
5:05:58 Yes, it would. So, this particular concept would require additional engineering because we'd have to change the dimensioning and the location of the
5:06:07 travel lanes. Uh, parking would generally be, if I'm looking at this, if I'm saying this is the east side of the street, parking would be on the east
5:06:15 side of the street. We would definitely like to contact all of the residents up and down East Avenue, explain what's
5:06:24 going to happen, what we're proposing, get some feedback from them. Um, important to note that this study, there
5:06:34 was a lot of public outreach that was done as a part of this. And I have over the years had people living on East
5:06:43 Avenue reach out to me and say, "Hey, where are you at with that complete streets project?" And I said, "Well, it's gotten really expensive. We're
5:06:51 trying to find the money to build it." So there there could be a lot of enthusiasm to to do this plan too. I I
5:06:58 don't know that yet, but that's part of the discovery that we'd have to do.
5:07:03 There's also been conversations about taking this, if we're doing the engineering, taking this and extending
5:07:10 it down to the South Lake Trail. It's a natural potential connection point that would have to be laid out and
5:07:17 engineered. uh my director and myself feel there is a pathway to make that happen but we would need to formally put
5:07:25 that together. Um then I think there was a mention about some additional crosswalks that that there was some interest or
5:07:33 so if there's if there's a desire for that that also would require some engineering because the slopes on the west side of East Avenue
5:07:42 at the schools are challenging. So, if we're going to reorient the crosswalks, which is which is fine, we just need to
5:07:51 get that access point engineered to meet ADA standards. Okay. Which currently it doesn't meet. Yeah.
5:07:58 And there is some sloping uh topography things there. Um, I think I asked this in in in the agenda review that if we
5:08:08 wanted to move forward with what's in the packet, um, I think what's in the
5:08:15 report from Council Member Strange is no later than January 27. I think the questions I asked for you in in review
5:08:22 is that you indicated I I asked kind of how long design might take and you mentioned like 6 to 8 months.
5:08:30 Correct.
5:08:31 And there would also need to be a bid process given the scope of work. Is that correct?
5:08:36 Yes. Assuming the I mean assuming the complexity of construction is there and the cost is going to exceed 50,000 which
5:08:43 is extremely likely um then yes we would have to go out to bid um and have that vetted properly through approved by the
5:08:52 city council and everything else like that. So engineering could be six maybe eight months. Um if we get started right
5:09:00 away and I would push to have that time frame shortened as much as we possibly could understanding the urgency of it
5:09:07 all. Um, and then as soon as engineering was done, concepts are brought back to the council and to our groups, you know,
5:09:15 look at that, choose what we're looking at, get it nailed down tight, and then develop the final plans, and then go out to bid.
5:09:24 And I think I asked in terms of again a guesstimate, best guess uh estimate of when this then could be completed, and
5:09:31 you indicated prior to the start of next school year. Assuming the construction is complex, the desirable thing for the
5:09:38 contractor would be to wait until school is out. Um, then you could go ahead and rip up in front of the schools and make
5:09:47 connections and do some of the heavier bits of construction. There may be a way to get some of the pavement marked and
5:09:55 down prior to that occurring, but until we have the plans and until we have the the dimensions all put together, I I can't really say.
5:10:03 Okay. But understanding the urgency, you know, we'd like to push it as much as we could.
5:10:08 Sure. My final question, I think, is for the city attorney then. um if we wanted to support what's in being proposed
5:10:17 through council member Strange's request here and and and get behind the complete street program since we don't have some
5:10:25 of the data and information cost timing what it actually would look like outreach to the community. Can we
5:10:33 approve tonight moving forward with the concept of that program?
5:10:40 Obviously then requiring the various pieces to come back to us when they come back to us for actual approval, but but
5:10:47 to give direction and and and support for the concept behind this complete street model versus um the one way each way, if you will.
5:10:57 Absolutely.
5:10:58 Okay. Thank you very much. Those are all my questions, Miss Myers.
5:11:04 Um, so the one that Allison has in our packet that she wanted
5:11:11 you in the agenda review like Bryan had said, you said it would take 6 to8 months for engineering because you said it's hard to get engineers. Correct.
5:11:19 Correct.
5:11:20 And that um it would be easier to implement when school is not in so they could get correct.
5:11:25 The actual Yes. The actual construction would be easier if students weren't around to do that. Okay. Um, my question for Miss Strange, would that be an issue for
5:11:33 you if you had to wait um until the summer for this to be completed?
5:11:44 I don't know how else to say this except to just say it as it's on my heart, right? which is
5:11:53 the reason why I expedited this and put it on the schedule was because I was sent a photograph of a crossing sign
5:12:02 that we had put in the middle of the street that had been hit by a car.
5:12:06 Oh, and I am going to have a very hard time sitting on this dis if a child is hit
5:12:15 during the time it takes us to get this right. I I feel an obligation
5:12:22 to the people and this is not something that I take lightly or that I that that I think is something that's been um
5:12:32 that's a surprise, right?
5:12:34 Um I'm going to have to wait until it can get done. But it is something that
5:12:41 weighs on my soul that if a child is hit or anybody, an adult is hit, doesn't matter who it is. Yeah.
5:12:48 Um but if someone gets hit, the way that that crossing sign was hit, we had knowledge that it was an issue. There's two schools there. It's a foreseeable a
5:12:56 foreseeable injury. Um we went ahead and paved a road to Miss Sinclair's point, making it no longer a pothole. And so
5:13:04 now it's like it looks like the Daytona 500 when you're out there. And I just have a really hard time with that. So
5:13:12 I'm gonna have questions when my time comes, but I am handcuffed to some extent, right?
5:13:18 I don't I would not want to put in a stop gap that doesn't make every parent up here feel safe if their
5:13:26 seven-year-old is riding her bike to school, right?
5:13:29 That is not what I'm looking for. I'm not looking for virtue signaling. I'm looking for authentically making a safe way for kids to get to school.
5:13:37 I figured I just wanted to make sure just wanted to make sure you know with time and all. Yeah. I mean, of course, if we could get it done tomorrow, that
5:13:45 would be great. I just wanted to know where your head was at in regards of that. Okay, I'm good. Thank you, Mr. Spe.
5:13:54 So, the way I understand is the road is already paved. So, now all we're waiting for is paint. And that's going to take that long to do paint.
5:14:03 Oh.
5:14:04 Oh, okay. No, it don't take that long to do the engineering to change the dimensions on the road. So the So the road is going to get widened.
5:14:13 No, the big proposal that you have, right?
5:14:16 Okay. That does not change the center line, the yellow striped down the center of the line, that does not change. All
5:14:23 we're doing with that is taking a strip of white paint 4 feet off the curb line on both sides and striping it down both
5:14:32 sides of East Avenue, south of 50 and north of 50. What's in the packet is going to require additional engineering
5:14:40 because that is changing, right, the lanes of the road and everything else like that. And the biggest part of
5:14:47 the time that it's going to take to create this is But if we would do if we would do this concept it could be done
5:14:56 right away couple of months right is that acceptable done and think you say in November I don't think 4 foot lanes are safe for
5:15:04 sevenyear-olds to ride next to 35 mph cars I just I don't think that that's safe so by having it both lanes on one side
5:15:13 what what what's the buffer between that and the traffic so if you look at the 2019 proposal
5:15:20 which I'll have questions about Um, you'll notice that you've got the two cars or the two lanes and then those
5:15:27 little T's are actually parallel parking. Okay?
5:15:30 So, you actually end up with whole vehicles separating the bike lane from the traffic, right?
5:15:36 And then there's also a buffer painted stripe between the bike lane and the parallel parking. And some communities,
5:15:44 and I'm not asking it here tonight, but some communities will take those buffers and they'll put things like concrete
5:15:52 planters or they'll put art or they'll put sticks that are vertical in the road to kind of designate that this is for
5:15:59 bicycles. And and I feel like that's a good thing for the community. I'm not I think that's probably a creative art project quite frankly, but that's the
5:16:06 difference is in one case you have a child or or an adult or someone in a wheelchair or you know riding next to cars going at a
5:16:14 No, I understand. But is this concept the same width as the road exists now? Yeah.
5:16:18 So is that we have to widen it or anything?
5:16:21 But does the does the car pass have to be narrow? Is there a a minimum? Yes, the car pass in in both cases would
5:16:30 generally be narrowed. So, which is a good thing because that's going to slow traffic down. So, right now the the
5:16:37 driving lane is 15 feet wide because there's nothing that's constraining you and all you see in front of you is well, there's
5:16:45 parking, but it's a distance away. So, with the two-lane bike lane here, that would be about 8 ft wide with another
5:16:53 two-foot buffer and then another 8 foot wide parking lane for cars to park. So you've got quite a bit of space. So
5:17:02 that's going to narrow the travel lanes down to generally about 10 feet, which is going to be kind of narrow for this.
5:17:09 But the whole objective is traffic calming and to slow people down.
5:17:13 And and remember when we had the gentleman from the ABA here, is that is the standard to have a bike lane in two
5:17:21 directions next to each other or is the standard to have the bike lane match the traffic pattern of the cars?
5:17:29 That's outside my scope.
5:17:30 Honestly, I've seen it both ways. I was just in Sanford over the weekend and they did a terrific job on State Route
5:17:36 46, okay, of building brand new protected bike lanes on the existing road surface and they had uh exactly as
5:17:45 it's shown in your packet that there was a eastbound, northbound, or whatever on the same lane with the concrete medians
5:17:53 that council member Strange was mentioning, too. So, okay. No, I I'm in favor of that.
5:18:01 Just would like it today, right? Understood. I mean, like you said, we want to save.
5:18:09 I mean, that sign was hit, but there was no child injured yet. And that's the big word is yet. Right. Right.
5:18:18 Okay. Does it gonna would you be taking away park if you have a house there?
5:18:23 Will you be taking away that person's right to park his car in front of his house?
5:18:29 Potentially, yes. In in this particular concept that's in your packet, the parking on the west side of the street
5:18:36 would generally go away. Most of the residences are on the east side of the street, but that wouldn't prohibit them from parking on the east side of the
5:18:45 street and just walking across the street to their home. Now, does that if you own a home, does that is there a legal requirement? If you take away
5:18:53 somebody's parking in front of their home, can you take that away? Is that only you know, like you if you have a house and you've been parking,
5:19:01 there's no right to it if it's city a city road for example. I'm sorry.
5:19:10 Yeah. No. Um, but that's ultimately it's one of those things that the city has control like you know this comes up in the context of our discussion sometimes
5:19:18 with Miss Forth. Can the city put up signs on it? It can and that deprivives people of parking sometimes but yes it is within the city's discretion. There's no compensation or anything.
5:19:28 That's it. No further questions. Thank you sir.
5:19:33 Yeah. Um Mr. Mr. Mayor, just for history, can you tell us how this 2019 plan came to be? If it was a study, did
5:19:42 we pay for it? How many concepts were there?
5:19:44 The Metropolitan Planning Organization actually paid for it. At one time, the Complete Streets project was attempting
5:19:52 to be run through the MO. Uh the MO over the years now has had funding constrictions. So they're no longer
5:20:00 entertaining complete streets projects like this because they've got more regional capacity projects that they're working on. So back in I I believe it
5:20:09 all started in 2017. Um there was a desire and this was part of the city's original first master plan for city
5:20:18 improvements. They identified this as a corridor that led you to waterfront park to a future boat ramp and to everything
5:20:26 else with two schools, you know, a park cemetery. It was clearly a highly traveled route that deserved some
5:20:35 attention. Safety was a big issue. Uh the concept that was approved was really
5:20:41 an elaborate concept with uh bike trail down the middle landscape center medians island. They they chicained which means
5:20:50 they changed direction on the road weaved you back and forth. There were proposals for roundabouts at Grand
5:20:57 Avenue and Oyola Street and things like that. So it was really quite elaborate.
5:21:02 Um, what you have in your packet was offered as a quicker solution to get to
5:21:11 ultimately where everybody wanted to be, which was the big picture concept, the big plan with all the elaborate features
5:21:19 that that entailed. And then, you know, it's it's interesting. I look at the the construction cost estimates from 2019
5:21:28 were $2 million to to build the super plan. Uh now we're anywhere between
5:21:35 potentially 15 and $20 million. So big big big big cost difference. Um so in in
5:21:43 a lot of ways this two-way pathway makes some sense.
5:21:48 Were any of those drawings in 2019 engineered? No, they were simply concept plans.
5:21:55 So, they did cost estimates based on concept plans. Yes.
5:21:59 Okay. Um, and we did approve a series of traffic engineers recently, correct?
5:22:05 Oh, yeah. We have plenty of potential engineers. Okay. So, we have no shortage of that.
5:22:11 And is engineering required for widening of sidewalks?
5:22:15 depends on what your um what you're going to be up against. Um you know,
5:22:24 potentially if we're talking about the area at uh Grand Highway and coming across, um there are some utility
5:22:33 conflicts and there are some trees that could potentially be in the way of widening that sidewalk. So,
5:22:41 it looks like most both sides of the street have sidewalks. Is that right? Or am I They have pedestrian sidewalks. It actually gets wider closer to Grand
5:22:50 Highway. Like the It's almost like the intent was to redirect people onto that
5:22:57 sidewalk to be used as an auxiliary multi-purpose walkway. And if you look
5:23:03 at the um the original phase or concept three, the original that original plan
5:23:11 had the bike lanes exiting the roadway in front of the school, traversing in front of the school on the sidewalk all
5:23:19 the way down to Grand Highway and then that's where it dead ended. It was right at Grant Highway. There was never any thought at that time to take it to connect to the South Lake Trail.
5:23:31 So yeah, I think connecting to the trail would be great as far as the grand scheme of things um to create a system of people being able to move about for
5:23:39 sure. U my immediate concern is the children going to school and I'm wondering if there might be some solution involving expanding the
5:23:47 sidewalks because they're currently 3 feet or four um but but to have a two-way sidewalk you need to be closer to 8.
5:23:55 I prefer something like an 8 to 10. Now there's plenty of rightway space for that. there's plenty of space to expand the sidewalk into that zone.
5:24:04 Um, we'd want to make sure that we meet all the ADA standards and crossings and everything else like that. So,
5:24:12 is that a quicker process than dealing with the complete street engineering?
5:24:16 Oh, absolutely. I mean, you're you're talking about and and but that's the six-month process that I'm talking about. sidewalks
5:24:24 is sidewalks, crosswalk that we talked about, and then getting the dimensioning on the paving. So, if we eliminate the
5:24:32 crosswalk, then we could push things along faster and we could look at other solutions for the sidewalk connections. So,
5:24:42 okay, those are all my questions. Okay, thank you.
5:24:52 Uh, Miss Strange, you said something about four feet lane. Back lanes. All these bike lanes would be four feet, right?
5:24:59 I'm sorry. The the size of the bike lanes, right? So, you'd have four feet on one side of the road, four feet on the other side of the road. But when you combine
5:25:07 them on the east side of the road, that now becomes eight. And then there's there would be an additional two foot of buffer on top of that where you wouldn't
5:25:15 have that with the two 4 foot bike lanes. But if I if I got four four feet lane on both sides and we we would still be able to park the cars on both sides of the street.
5:25:25 Uh yes, that means that you will put move the parking out buffer buffer between the cars and the
5:25:34 parking right, which give you a little bit more buffer. Okay.
5:25:37 But either way, we're going to end up with 4 foot bike lanes. Whether we do that concept or this concept, they both be four feet.
5:25:45 But I heard Miss Strange say she she's not safe with kids having to ride on a 4 foot bike lane.
5:25:51 So that mean and one of them there's eight feet 8t 8 feet with cars parked in between the bike lane and the cars that are moving
5:25:59 in traffic and the other you have the bikes riding alongside the cars moving in traffic and
5:26:06 so the the dimensions are the same and it's it is where you put the paint. Now we have the same situation on Hancock
5:26:13 Road by the way. Um so you know it's all about having engineers who understand
5:26:20 bicycling and pedestrian friendly traveling rather than building for cars.
5:26:27 So that's when I talk about human friendly that it's getting an engineer who understands that. Um here here's one of my concerns.
5:26:39 If we do the door back both on one side of the street, we losing parking on one side of the street. Residents and I got a feeling some of the residents not
5:26:47 going to be happy. Not only that, but if we put the single lanes on one side of the street, we can keep the
5:26:55 parking on the same side and doing a lot of bike competitions around here. East Avenue become a a parking lot basically over there on both sides of the street
5:27:03 like uh uh what's that? Terrible 100, which is one of the worst events we have here in Climouth, uh, for parking and everything. You got cars everywhere over there. Uh, and that that concerns me.
5:27:15 Even if we did the So, if we did the one side concept,
5:27:22 we'll probably run into a problem when when you have some of these events because people going to probably end up parking in the bike lanes. Okay?
5:27:30 You know, so that that's one of the things I'm looking at envisioning. And of course me coming down there all the time being I live right up from over
5:27:37 East Avenue and I see these uh that's always been one of my concerns to make sure that people can still be able
5:27:44 to park there. We can put the bike lane there. Definitely need the bike lanes, but I think it' be better if we for me it would be better if we have one on
5:27:52 each side of the road. Uh and I'm not having cars riding into oncoming traffic or bike cyclists riding into oncoming
5:28:00 traffic. That always bothers me riding in the onsite oncoming traffic. Even though some people say they rather ride in oncoming traffic so they can see club
5:28:08 is coming at them rather than not being able to see what's behind them. But I I just have a problem with that. But understood
5:28:16 that's that's where I'm at and we can go ahead and get this done if we did on both sides. You say that can probably be done by by November.
5:28:24 Okay. What's the width of the road?
5:28:27 The right ofway width north of 50 is 100 ft. Now the the existing road, how wide is it?
5:28:32 The pavement width is it varies, but it's generally around 70 75 ft wide.
5:28:39 South of 50, it's a little narrower. Um so north of 50, if we have two 10-ft lanes, that leaves 25 ft on each side.
5:28:50 That could be split between parking or between for if you have two lanes, that's only 20 ft. And so if you have 75
5:28:57 feet, that's 55 feet divided by two, right?
5:29:00 My son's better at math than I am, but I think that's 27 and a half feet. So I don't understand why the engineer gave us a 4ft bike lane unless he's just
5:29:09 trying to make 15t 20 foot driving lanes, which isn't the math isn't mathing for me, I guess, is where I'm
5:29:17 coming from, right? I think the idea was you'd still have car parking, which would take up potentially an extra eight feet on either side. So that's 16 ft and then
5:29:25 you'd still have your driving lanes. So well like I say for me one of the uh parking is still going to be an issue. I
5:29:33 think think we I would like to see the parking on both sides especially when you got homes on both sides that actually use parking on the street
5:29:40 sometime. Okay. Um that's why I'm more apt to go to u this this one and all. Um
5:29:52 she talked about the sidewalks. Um, I've always wanted I've always I actually went over there and looked at
5:29:59 doing the sidewalks because most of the kids do ride their bikes up and down the sidewalk and not on the street right now. Uh, most of them you but I think we
5:30:06 have some problem with engine with with sidewalks there because we have some area where the parking fee get kind of kind of rough there. Uh, between what's
5:30:14 that Oyola and and Dodto Street, you get right up against uh a little drop off there. So there. Yeah, probably.
5:30:23 I haven't ridden my bike there, so I couldn't tell you.
5:30:26 Well, like I say, it's it's part of my neighborhood and you know, I walk down there sometime and you know, and you have to walk. It would be great if we had sidewalks on both side of the street
5:30:34 cuz when I come down, I have to walk across the street and get to the west side of the street and in order to be on
5:30:42 a sidewalk. Okay. Because we don't have one on the east side, you know. Okay.
5:30:46 Um, but that's that's the only question I have with about the bike lanes. They all going to be 4 feet. So, I was just
5:30:55 concerned cuz uh she's not happy with the uh say the 4T lane. So, could we could we widen the bike lanes a little bit more and give them a little bit
5:31:03 that I mean we could potentially look at that too. Yeah. Widening the bike lanes as well.
5:31:08 Again, we'd have to go back to some dimensioning and and take a look, but there's we could possibly do that. And of course then the other question I have
5:31:16 we had go to the concept that's in the packet but we only got it on one side of like how do we just how do we decide which side of the road
5:31:24 gets it get the bike that was determined in 2019.
5:31:30 Okay that's that's what that concept was at the time. Okay.
5:31:36 So I mean could we put it on the west side of the road? Possibly. Again, the
5:31:42 the concept when I'm when I'm thinking about it in my mind, it veered off of the road. As soon as you got past Pit
5:31:51 Street heading north, it brought you onto the sidewalk in front of the school and then just widened the sidewalk down.
5:31:58 So, it completely took you off the roadway in front of the schools and then that continued all the way down to Pit Street.
5:32:06 Yeah.
5:32:07 Well, it was down on Pit Street where the sign got hit. right on Pit Street in Drew. Yes. At that intersection where the sign got run over. I still look at
5:32:14 the picture. Don't know how what the driver was doing to run into that run into that sign there in the middle of the road, you know. But, uh, those are
5:32:23 all the questions I have. And Mr. Bain, thank you, Mayor. Um,
5:32:31 what what I know I don't want is a 4 foot bike lane on one side and a
5:32:39 4ft bike lane on the other and just a wide open street. Okay.
5:32:44 Um, I like what's in the packet. I like the concept of the complete street model,
5:32:52 whether that is both lanes on one side and then a
5:32:58 barrier and parking buffer or having one lane on each side, but enhanced width of
5:33:06 those lanes and enhanced buffers on both sides.
5:33:12 I'm okay either way. I'm I'm not an engineer and I I I don't I can't say what's going to work better with the
5:33:19 roadway and the topography, but I think what I'm what I would encourage us to potentially do is make the recommendation that we want a more
5:33:28 complete street model and get the engineering done and get the concept of
5:33:35 that, get the cost of that and get it to us as soon as possible so that it can be implemented as soon as possible. Thank you. Miss Miss Myers.
5:33:44 Um I agree with Bryan. Let's get it done. Let's get the cost so we know how much it's going to cost.
5:33:50 And um hopefully you can get an engineer to do this faster than what you anticipated, but I know you'll try.
5:33:58 Okay, Mr. Peterson.
5:34:00 Uh just a quick What is the width of that again? The width of the road as it exists right now.
5:34:05 It varies between 70 75 ft. In some places it's 80 70.
5:34:11 So it's it's kind of the standard width of a of of a car lane is is 15 feet 10 feet. No 10 minimum is 10 ft.
5:34:20 So with this new higher road, what is that width going to be then?
5:34:23 The the w the width on East Avenue if we implement if you follow this plan here in the packet they'll be 10 feet wide.
5:34:32 So 10 feet. Yes.
5:34:34 Okay. Now, will emergency vehicles be able to get through there?
5:34:41 You know, because they're wider than 10 feet, right?
5:34:44 No, they're not. Okay. Not necessarily. No.
5:34:49 So, I mean, you know, that I mean, I think this concept is great. I mean, especially with with the buffer of the parking and the little two feet
5:34:56 buffer that could be then even separated, like you said, with some kind of facade. I think it's a great idea. I
5:35:03 think I'm totally for this. Like everybody else is saying, we don't want to wait to to have somebody get hurt and
5:35:12 then say, "Oh, I wish we could have done this. We wish we could have voted on this sooner." So, like you said, I would think we I'd
5:35:19 like to get this voted on tonight and get get it started, you know, and and let let the horses come out of the gate.
5:35:27 In terms of timing, remember, I'm painting the worst case scenario package. I don't want to promise something that sure
5:35:35 firms can't deliver on and you know so trying to be realistic. Thank you.
5:35:42 I appreciate everybody's comments and it sounds like we're all on the same page for the most part at least. Um I would
5:35:51 like for purposes of supporting staff because I think if Mr. Mayworm goes to the engineers. My understanding of the way
5:36:00 our not procurement process but the fact that we already have engineers on our roster. If we give him a deadline to
5:36:08 bring us back something, it creates a criteria that he can move on to the next engineering firm if they say they can't
5:36:15 meet the deadline. Otherwise, as I understand the procurement process, and correct me if I'm wrong, or the statute is he has to go with the most qualified
5:36:24 firm of all the ones we have versus taking a concept that we already have and taking it to an engineer and saying, "I need to get this done." Because we're talking about a budgeted item.
5:36:34 I realize this is going to put you away under the gun with what I'm about to say, and it's to give you the power to negotiate.
5:36:41 Thanks. is I would love to ask the engineering firms just like we're doing with the parking garage to come back to
5:36:49 us in five weeks so that if they say no, he can move on to the next one. If he goes through the whole roster and none of them can do it in five weeks, well,
5:36:57 we'll be back here in two weeks and he can tell us that that's not going to work or we can sort it out. But if we put that deadline now, it's not his choice and his decision and his
5:37:04 management. It's us giving him a deadline that he can then leverage to get a firm that can get it done in that amount of time since we already have a concept.
5:37:14 So, that would be what I would propose. Voting on to get him to get going.
5:37:17 I I would correct me if I'm wrong, but we'd be directing staff to come up with um engineered drawings for a complete
5:37:27 street that doesn't require widening the road.
5:37:30 option, you know, concept one from the 2019 plan. Yes. And bring it back to us in five weeks.
5:37:38 So, we have it before we adopt the final budget in case there's a budget item associated with it.
5:37:44 Let's I'm not sure if that works for everybody. I'm not making a motion yet, but Okay.
5:37:52 Dan, are you feeling like you need to say something? Okay. I wasn't sure. Okay. All right. I'm done.
5:37:59 Okay, I entertain a motion.
5:38:02 Uh, I'm going to move to direct staff to bring us a complete streets concept plan that has been engineered
5:38:11 consistent with concept number one from the 2019 complete street plan and include pricing so that we have that within five weeks.
5:38:20 Second. Have a motion and second.
5:38:26 Uh for item number 20 to for staff to bring an engineering concept in five weeks. Five weeks. Five weeks.
5:38:34 Five weeks. No. Any further discussion?
5:38:38 Hearing none. All in favor? Let it be known by saying I. I.
5:38:41 All oppose. Chair vote I as well. Motion carries 5. All right. Thank you. Thank you.
5:38:48 Thank you, sir. Item number 21, council member requests.
5:39:00 This Bryan, thank you, mayor. Um, I know we've talked about this multiple times, so I'm I'm not going to beat the dead horse
5:39:07 here, but uh at various times we've talked about where we do our public notices and how we do our public
5:39:14 notices. And uh when we talked about this during the budget workshops, we talked about the need for um uh the
5:39:24 timing of that and how it is in our charter where we have to have our timing um uh set where we could not do we could
5:39:34 not meet the publication deadlines of the Clermont Sun and also meet our 14-day
5:39:41 prior to adoption being published in a newspaper.
5:39:46 uh because of when the Clermont Sun was being distributed and when we had our meetings.
5:39:52 Since that time, the Clermont Sun has uh altered when they go to publication.
5:39:59 And we now could work with them to meet our 14-day prior to adoption.
5:40:12 I'm sorry. Is is there something that I'm miss?
5:40:22 Miss Forth, I I'm sorry. We're I'm We're trying to get business taken care of here.
5:40:29 I was getting ready to I'm sorry. I've got an emergency.
5:40:31 I'm I know. I'm just I'm just I didn't know what was going on. Do we need a break or No, she's she's pulling her uh request, I think. Okay. Okay.
5:40:39 I'm fine. Go. I'm good. Go. Okay. I didn't know you could hear. Oh, sorry.
5:40:46 Um, I'm sorry. So, the Clermont Sun has changed their
5:40:55 publication date in order for us to uh work with them to publish our public
5:41:02 records, our notices uh to meet that 14-day prior to adoption timeline. Um
5:41:09 and so that kind of eliminated for for most of the notices that we need to do
5:41:15 the issue related to timing. Um the other piece of that that I know we've talked about before is um transparency and information that gets disseminated.
5:41:26 Um, and I I I gathered some information w with the assistance of of of staff and
5:41:33 folks to get find out what is the actual circulation number of the daily commercial and what is the circulation numbers of the Clermont Sun. And right
5:41:42 now in 34711 the daily commercial in um in print form is 39 39 number
5:41:50 39 people people 39 I'm sorry 39 in 34711 only that's how many people receive
5:41:59 that's how many people received the daily commercial we just paid $800 for that circulation and
5:42:07 the digital subscriptions cannot be parsed out by um by zip code. So the
5:42:14 digital subscriptions total is 127. So if we took 6 12% because that's what uh
5:42:21 the Clermont 34711 makes up of the print form, that means about nine
5:42:28 subscribers digitally. So roughly 48 subscriptions in print or digital is
5:42:35 going to the daily commercial. and that is where we currently are spending roughly $50,000 in public notice. Um,
5:42:45 so the Clermont Sun has over 10,000 in 34711 in print
5:42:55 and its digital subscription is nearly 15,000 at 14696.
5:43:03 So the propensity of us being able to reach a greater mass of people with our public notices
5:43:11 even if we break even and I know that there was some concern about well what would the cost actually be and I I
5:43:19 suspect based off the data that that we we've been given that that we would actually save money but let's say for
5:43:26 argument sake we would not. Let's say we would break even.
5:43:31 we would reach from 48 to potentially 24,894
5:43:41 and B, that money stays locally because the Clermont Sun is o owned locally and the funding that we pay to the daily
5:43:50 commercial I believe goes back to Cincinnati.
5:43:53 So, um I I'm asking for a final opportunity for us to actually give
5:43:59 direction to staff to print everything we can within the Clermont
5:44:07 Sun and have that be our primary source of public notices, but also giving the
5:44:14 caveat that if we cannot meet the requirement, if there's something that comes up that cannot be met,
5:44:23 in the Clermont Sun that we still have the option to go to the Orlando Sentinel. We still have the option to go
5:44:29 to the Daily um commercial. And I understand that one example might be the trim notices. The trim notices have to
5:44:38 be printed no less than two days before I'm sorry, no less than two days, no more than 5 days before the meeting.
5:44:47 Well, we have our meetings on Thursdays because we can't have our budget hearings on the same day as another
5:44:54 governing body has their budget hearings. So, that would be one we know probably would not work for the Clermont Sun. So, that would have to go
5:45:02 to either the Daily Commercial or the Orlando Sentinel. I'm okay with that because that's those one-offs that it doesn't work. But I think by and large
5:45:11 we should be utilizing a local locallyowned and far greater
5:45:18 uh circulation publication for our public notices. And I hope that we can move in that direction and give staff
5:45:26 I've proposed November 1st. I'd be willing to go to December 1st if that's what was needed, but I think we could give them the time to put this in place and implement it. Thank you.
5:45:35 Thank you. This is a public forum.
5:45:36 Anyone in the public wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
5:45:43 Anyone in the public wish to address this item may come to the microphone and state your name and address and have three minutes.
5:45:50 Seeing no one in chamber, anyone online, sir, we got one in queue. One in queue. Are they ready?
5:45:58 Online. Go ahead, please.
5:46:02 All right, guys. I was ready to to um sign off. This is Jenny May 4062 Braceton Drive, but I had to sit in and
5:46:10 I'm listening to Councilman Bryan. I just want to thank you so much. Um I have questioned that uh many times when
5:46:18 I said at the planning and zoning commission we would love to have a full room of people speaking and commenting
5:46:27 and I always felt that the daily I guess the daily I forgot what it was called but the you know I I didn't think the the reach there was um was appropriate
5:46:36 especially with the cost. So, I want to thank you for bringing this up. Uh, Clermont Sun, anything local would be perfect. Uh, Gross Spotters, Orlando
5:46:45 Sentinel, but I think keeping it local is great. And I just want to thank you for bringing this up. This was an item or a subject that's always been on my
5:46:53 mind. Um, and thank you again. Have a good night, guys. Thank you. Anyone else, sir?
5:47:02 Then no one else. I close public comment. Bring it back to council. Would say you, Mr. Rain.
5:47:09 I have no questions for myself.
5:47:13 I don't know. I don't know whether you had other questions. I see see the uh son is sitting out there. Uh Miss Meyers.
5:47:22 Um that's a big difference from a potential 24,000 from you said 48 with the other publication, right? Is that
5:47:30 the numbers right? Um Bryan, do you know how much the difference in cost would be? Well, so at the p at the budget
5:47:37 workshop, I I did share with you all a a uh based on actual May 2025 invoice, right?
5:47:45 Public notice rate comparison daily commercial to Clermont Sun for just that May of 2025. And it cost us uh
5:47:52 $6,970 in May for the commercial.
5:47:57 And uh the Clermont Sun estimate was $4,99.
5:48:02 So an estimated savings of 2,000 which is roughly 30%. So if you looked at our 2025 numbers of 43105
5:48:11 and went at 30% it could be a savings of up to $13,000.
5:48:15 But I I I don't want to make that I guess assumption to say that we're going to save that full amount. I'm even willing, I guess, in this proposal to
5:48:24 say if it's a break even, the numbers and the stay local are the areas for me to push that forward.
5:48:32 Um, thank you for getting the data on that. I like the idea of reaching more people because that's what we want. We
5:48:39 want to reach more people and then the cherry on top is it's if we save some money as well and keeping it local as you said. Thank you for that,
5:48:48 Mr. Peterson. I I totally like the idea of using a local paper for our publications. The only thing I don't
5:48:56 think I don't think the council should select and mandate a specific vendor. I don't think that's from the das. I mean
5:49:03 it's it's our responsibility to do public policy and approve contracts. But I don't think we should substitute ourselves for the city's procurement
5:49:12 department. So maybe to pass it to to to that department to make the selection because I don't think we should vote on a vendor from the dis. I don't think
5:49:21 that's our function. But I do believe that we should maybe switch but maybe we can give directions to that area. Do you have a question?
5:49:30 I'm not trying to be rude. Do you have a question? Miss Miss Strange.
5:49:36 Okay. I have a question. Um, is there a procurement issue with us selecting who city staff uses for this function?
5:49:46 There's no procurement issue like us directing staff on what vendor to use.
5:49:53 You can give direction to staff on anything you please. I mean there's just there's a difference between direction
5:49:59 and mandate if that makes sense. That's what I'm trying to kind of like how you know if you directed the city manager to terminate
5:50:08 someone, it's still the city manager's authority.
5:50:11 Um, and if the city manager doesn't comply, then you but your action is related to the city manager. Now, the
5:50:19 caveat to that is uh it does say in your city charter that the city manager has to follow resolutions and ordinances. So
5:50:26 if the city chose to create a resolution or pass a resolution to that effect, then that binds staff for example. Does that make sense?
5:50:36 Without a resolution, it's non-binding.
5:50:38 My question is, are we bypassing the procurement process? No. Why not?
5:50:44 Well, I mean, it's a matter of where you provide the notice. It's not subject to procurement. Why not?
5:50:53 Well, it's it's a case-byase advertisement. It's not a contract. It's not a $50,000 contract, per se, or something like that because each one is $800.
5:51:01 Yeah. Every instance, it can be different. Huh.
5:51:05 Well, it's like going out and buying Coke from the store. If you you might buy a lot of Coke from, you know, Walmart, right?
5:51:12 You do it every week. The city might spend $50,000 on it, but it's not a contract. It's not subject to procurement. I have something to learn there. Okay.
5:51:20 Got it. Um, probably the rest of my questions are irrelevant then. Um,
5:51:29 what I'd like to do is achieve the result that Mr. Bain is asking without overstepping our bounds. But it sounds like we're not overstepping our bounds.
5:51:39 Do I understand you correctly? Like what if there are two, for example, I see this in tourism a lot. So if we have if
5:51:48 we're establishing criteria, we might say, well, we want to go with the local newspaper that reaches the most Clermont citizens while not exceeding
5:51:57 the previous year's budget by 10%. That would be criteria.
5:52:02 It so happens the Clermont Sun would meet that criteria. But what if there was another newspaper that came to town that said, "Well, we can beat that criteria." And then to Mr. Bain's point,
5:52:11 I love the idea of it's local. You guys know that. But I'm My understanding was we can't give preference to local
5:52:19 businesses, but I would make that a criteria if I was allowed to make that a criteria. So, I want to achieve what he's trying to achieve. I just want to
5:52:27 make sure we're doing it consistently with our other procurement practices.
5:52:31 Okay. I mean, I think I I think I understand what you're saying. I mean, and first first of all, you have incorporated local preferences into your procurement procedures.
5:52:40 They're for Lake County, though. Yeah.
5:52:42 They're not city of Clermont. Well, well, but regardless, you have made a finding. Um, now that said, that's not really the issue here because I it's not
5:52:51 a contract. It's not something that is, in other words, we're not bound to necessarily go with one or the other and
5:53:00 spend $80,000 or anything like that. So, um I I have also heard non-local preference reasons. So if if the only
5:53:08 reason that we chose to do something was uh this is Clermont, you know, this person lives in Clermont and this person lives
5:53:16 in, you know, the land, whatever, then and that's why we're doing it. I I might have some concerns, but uh that's not
5:53:24 the case here because several reasons have been articulated.
5:53:30 Is there a policy that we could put in place to give boundaries to staff like a a policy resolution to say whenever
5:53:39 possible? For example, we use Amazon a lot. Well, that's not a local business, but maybe there was a local business.
5:53:48 So, you're asking for a specific thing.
5:53:50 I get that. I'm looking at it from like the big picture for us to say, "Okay, staff, whenever you can, we want you to use local businesses as long as it's
5:53:58 within collectively in the budget." Yeah. I I mean certainly that can be adopted through a resolution as a policy.
5:54:06 Oh, I like that. I am fine with it based on the in Oh, sorry. Comments. Okay, I'll wait.
5:54:16 Please forgive me. I just had a very close family friend die, so I'm a little bit out of sorts. Just so you know.
5:54:22 Okay. Go ahead. You're done. I'm done. Okay. All right. Well, I have no no question.
5:54:32 They uh ba basically I have no question.
5:54:34 And other than the fact that Mr. W, you pretty much answered my question. It's not a contract, right?
5:54:41 And I think if I'm not mistaken, I think we've set off on this dis before and made made this decision before to keep
5:54:49 and made the decision before and took a vote before not to move this. Okay. So we it's not the first time that's come before us where we've taken action on
5:54:58 this if I'm not mistaken. So I have no problem with it. I I I like it. I think it's something that been long overdue.
5:55:04 So Mr. Bain, what what do you say? Um, my only comments would be I I hope we will support it. It is not a contract.
5:55:13 Um, it is, as it's stated in my proposal to direct city manager to work with staff. I want to make sure we're clear
5:55:20 on that. Council member Strange, I I don't want us to overstep that and and say we're directing somebody to do this other than the person that we work with
5:55:28 and and supervise. So, um, and I I I do think that, um, increasing, if we focus
5:55:36 on the increasing transparency and keeping, um, our tax dollars local and allowing for publication placements in other places when they don't meet the
5:55:45 requirements, but having a preference and having a priority place allows us to publicize these things in a consistent
5:55:53 way like we currently are in the daily commercial, except we move forward with the Clermont Sun and not to mention
5:56:00 Groveland, Montver, and Minnola also do this. So, all of our local areas and all of our kind of South Lake area would
5:56:08 have a centralized location where they could go and get information about their governments and what what's going on in those governments. So, I would hope that
5:56:15 we would support that and and um move forward. Thank you, M. Myers. No comment.
5:56:23 Mr. Pete, I think I'm 100% where we I don't think we should vote on it here, but my feeling is we should direct our
5:56:30 city manager then to steer whoever ne necessary to get this done because I don't think we should do a vote on a
5:56:38 vendor here. I think we should do direction for as a council to get this done. Does that make sense? I think we do vote on vendors every day.
5:56:47 I think that's what the item says. Yes, sense. That's accurate.
5:56:51 No. Is it accurate that we should not vote on a vendor? We vote on vendors every day.
5:56:58 Well, you're directing the manner of notice. I mean, so no, I I don't have a problem with you giving direction, but do you vote on that?
5:57:07 You can if you wish. I mean, it's like you express direction and preferences on a lot of things.
5:57:14 Even things that don't have the force of law. Um, you issue proclamations. I mean, there's a lot of stuff that you do like that.
5:57:21 Okay. Thank you.
5:57:23 Um, so when we talked about this last that this isn't patting myself on the back, it the point is that I think it's
5:57:30 really cool that a local business who wanted our business was willing to change their policies and procedures.
5:57:37 I'm not saying they did it for us, but I do think that there would have been an awareness of the potential for the
5:57:43 business when making policy decisions as a small business. And that's the benefit of working with small businesses is that
5:57:52 they listen and they're part of your community and they want your business and they react and they treat you special and that's why we should all support small businesses. So it's my
5:58:00 platform for the night. Um I'm actually not terribly concerned about us breaking even um we're in a very strong financial
5:58:09 position. The maximum budget line item we're talking about overall is 50,000.
5:58:13 So, I mean, even if it exceeded a little bit because we're talk, and I say a little bit, what's a little bit? Well, 20%. I mean, that's what I'd start to
5:58:22 raise my eyebrows. Why? Because we're reaching 24,000 people instead of 147.
5:58:28 So, that when you break it down by person, we're actually getting a really high return on our investment. So, I wouldn't necessarily want to break it
5:58:36 down by now, I don't want to pay $20 per 24,000 people every time we publish. So, I don't want that to be swung the other way, but you know, to me, it's a
5:58:44 balance. So, I am in support of the request, but I encourage us to consider directing the city manager whenever
5:58:52 possible to use local businesses who reach, you know, who are in line with our budget so long as they meet whatever
5:59:01 the criteria is. And so, if the council is willing to consider that as a broad brush, I support that. If we just want to look at this one item, I'm okay with that as well.
5:59:13 Okay.
5:59:15 All right. Uh, as I say, I'm in support and basically going along with the same thing Miss Strange just say. I am I commend
5:59:24 the Clermont Sun for sticking with and listen to what we said and uh what was said in our workshop about if they
5:59:31 change the uh distribution date, we'll be listen willing to listen to that. And I think they went out right away and
5:59:37 changed that. Okay. Um, and I figured that was in opposition to in relationship to what they had heard in
5:59:45 our workshop. So, I thank you for that and all. And again, being a local business and we I think we've said on this county on this day many times that
5:59:54 we want to support local businesses. Uh, as Mr. W said earlier, even in our procurement process, we put in there.
6:00:01 We've already given preference to local businesses and local uh businesses and everything. Um cost savings. I'm not worried worry about cost saving because
6:00:09 we way I see it. We're gonna be saving a lot of money. Uh as M I I wrote down here ROI, return on investment. Okay. Uh
6:00:19 and I look at it the fact that we going to be spending basically the same amount of money, but we would reaching four, five times the amount of people, our return is greater, a lot greater. So
6:00:28 we're saving a whole lot of money in the long run, far as I'm concerned. Uh, so I I totally support this and have no problem voting and saying, "Hey, go
6:00:36 ahead and do it." But at the same time, as as Mr. Bain stated in the presentation, uh, when there's situations and time that we the sun
6:00:45 can't meet our needs, we still have the opportunity to go ahead and use a daily commercial, you know. So, it's all I have to say. I entertain a motion. With
6:00:53 that, I'll make that motion to move forward with directing the city manager to place public notices in the Clermont
6:01:00 Sun and uh whenever possible, keep in mind uh increased transparency, information,
6:01:06 uh taxpayer dollars, and keeping these uh taxpayer dollars spent locally. Second.
6:01:15 All right. I have a motion in a second to go ahead and for approval of um what's this? Item number 21. Yes. Yes. Public notices, notification.
6:01:23 Any further discussion?
6:01:26 Hearing none. All in favor, let it be known by saying I. I. All oppose.
6:01:29 And the chair vote I as well. Motion carries. Follow.
6:01:33 Good. Last uh next item is item number 17, citizen request.
6:01:41 Yes, ma'am. mayor and in the interest of time and I've got a heart and I would like to
6:01:49 pull this till the next council but when the gavl goes down I would like to
6:01:55 address the council here publicly about what's going on
6:02:02 if I could or I can do it on the record it doesn't matter I'm pulling it you don't have to stay for it put it on the
6:02:08 next one okay which is fine with me. Um, and if you want to, that way anybody wants to go home, they can. And if you
6:02:17 want to stay to hear what I want to address to y'all of a message from me and Chuck. Okay. Hold on just a second, Miss Boy.
6:02:24 Put some rumors to to bed. I'm sorry. Let's see. Whichever Whatever you want to do.
6:02:28 You're pulling You're pulling your request. Yes. And put it on the next meeting. Yes.
6:02:34 Mr. Well, do I need a motion for that or Okay, I need a motion. Let's take care of that. Yes. Okay. Okay. Can I get a motion to go ahead and remove it and put it in on the next agenda?
6:02:44 What's the date for that? September 8th.
6:02:46 I'll move to table this item to September 8th. Second. It's fine.
6:02:53 8th September.
6:02:56 Okay. Uh I have a motion and uh second to table item number 17 to September 8th. Any further discussion? Hear none.
6:03:05 All in favor? Let it be known by saying I. I.
6:03:08 All oppose. and chair I as well. Uh before I go into next, Miss Miss Forth
6:03:14 has asked to address the U council independently. Uh I have no problem with it. The only thing left on the agenda is reports. So I have no problem with it.
6:03:24 If you want to give her a time limit, that's up to you all and give that to you. Let you make that decision. Uh if you don't want to hear it, let me know.
6:03:34 Okay. Anybody that wants to leave can leave. If not, I would like to address.
6:03:39 Are are can I ask for clarification? Are you asking are you asking to address us after we adjourn or either or? It doesn't matter because
6:03:48 Bryan, we got to quit being in the weeds and getting so technical. Y'all been here for 5 hours and it could have been three.
6:03:53 Well, I understand that we could have done 30 back years ago in half this time. I know, but Miss Forth, if you're asking us to meet as a
6:04:01 council, no, I'm asking asked you publicly on an issue I want to tell you of what's going on, which you can do in
6:04:09 a council. We've done it many, many times. You're getting too technical. You can either let the gavl go down and I can speak to y'all here. It may be
6:04:17 recorded or not. It doesn't matter either way. Here's the problem.
6:04:20 You have the choice to leave if you want. Here's the problem I have with that.
6:04:23 Once the gavl goes down, it's no longer a public. It's not difficult, Mr. Walk. Um, what's the ruling on that?
6:04:29 If the GAVA goes spec What are you asking specifically?
6:04:33 Well, she asking to address the council after the Gava goes down. Of course, that long at that point, the meeting ajourn is no longer a public meeting, right?
6:04:41 Yeah. I I mean, I I don't have a problem with that any more than any other person can get up and start speaking as you leave if you want to. I mean, you could
6:04:49 choose to sit here or not. I think I just wanted to do it here so I could do them. It would have to be after reports. It would have to be after and we can't comment because then it's a
6:04:57 That's correct. You would not be able to It's not city business and it's just to address them all at the same time they're here.
6:05:02 That's what I'm asking the clarification for.
6:05:04 We've done this many many many times before.
6:05:06 Miss, if you don't mind, let us get through a report and I will I will fine. Yeah. Do what you need to do. It's okay.
6:05:13 Thank you. Uh reports. Uh Mr. Van Wagner.
6:05:21 Thank you, Mr. Mayor.
6:05:24 Real quick, September 7th is going to be Labor Day and city offices are going to be closed.
6:05:30 September, excuse me, September 7th.
6:05:34 September 8th, we're going to have a workshop at 2:00 p.m. that day. That's a bud. It's a budget meeting only before
6:05:42 our council meeting. And then the last thing I want to bring up to you is we
6:05:49 put a offer on a vacant piece of land and I have put that in your packets and
6:05:57 I would like to seek authorization to go forward with getting an appraisal and moving forward with that property.
6:06:06 Okay. Uh M do we need to take a vote on did everybody get a copy of that proposal?
6:06:14 Yes. I mean, so you would you would have to vote on it.
6:06:19 Um, it's expressly contingent upon council approval, right?
6:06:25 Um, so you if if you are inclined to accept it, I'd rather see it on the next agenda
6:06:34 so that there's public notice and opportunity. The contract will be signed just subject to our approval. Right.
6:06:40 It's it's it's signed. It's just yeah waiting for it's contingent. Nothing happens without your approval. Is there a deadline?
6:06:48 Yes.
6:06:49 That's what I'm curious. There's deadline that what what is it at 30 uh closings?
6:06:57 October 1st is okay. Closing. But how good is how long is the offer? Is it 30-day or October? What' you say?
6:07:06 October 1st which is a little over what about 45 days.
6:07:10 Right. And I mean the city can terminate um you know within it's contingent on our approval.
6:07:17 Okay.
6:07:20 And I don't know if you all had a chance to look at it um look at the uh offer.
6:07:27 Well, he needs to get I think what would be helpful would be if he got an appraisal and this goes on the agenda the next meeting,
6:07:36 right? and then we can see the appraisal and then we can approve it the next meeting.
6:07:41 I'm not sure I can get that that quick because I'm turning in everything on Friday this week for the next packet, but I'll certainly try.
6:07:49 Well, the purchase is subject to the appra it appraising as well. Yeah, it's in the contract, isn't it?
6:07:55 Yes, subject to appraisal.
6:08:04 there there is somebody also that expressed an interest in this property. So that's part of the speed.
6:08:14 It's kind of you know and I'm be honest when Mr. Van Wagner called me and asked me about it. Um just knowing what I know
6:08:21 about property values around here right now and what it was going and what they was asking. Uh, I don't think we going to have any problem coming in well under
6:08:29 what actually it's going to appraise for. Even though I think it's what 42 acres of land for a little about
6:08:36 $600,000, I think this I think it's an exciting opportunity for the city.
6:08:41 For the city. Yes. But u, but I I'm one, as I said earlier, we do need the appraisal, but this contract is subject to appraisal, but I don't think we're
6:08:49 going to have anything any problem. It's probably uh appraising a lot higher than what the offer is and everything. So yeah, I
6:08:57 Okay, but this could come out. This is a parks and wreck impact fee opportunity. I The most
6:09:04 recent numbers I've seen were 11,700,000 and parks and recreation um impact fees.
6:09:11 So this isn't a general fund item. I'm for it, but I'm concerned about perception
6:09:18 and and so even if we had a special meeting before the next meeting, I still think we need to give the public notice that we're doing it.
6:09:28 That's my take and I can be talked out of it, but that's my take.
6:09:30 Why don't we why don't we go ahead and give approval? Uh if that's okay with, Mr. Water, go ahead and get the appraisal done.
6:09:38 Um, I think in in the in the write up, uh, if it doesn't come out with the appraisal, we still have a right to back
6:09:46 out even with the appraisal, right? But go ahead and Well, you could choose to conceivably at your next meeting terminate the contract. Terminate. Terminate. Yes.
6:09:54 Because we have that'll be within our 30-day due diligence period without penalty.
6:09:58 But we won't be able to get appraisal done in 30 days probably, right? I'm not sure. I doubt it.
6:10:04 Alas. So, just to be clear for public record, we can terminate within 30 days. Yes.
6:10:10 Without penalty, no loss of escrow or anything. Correct.
6:10:14 So, we can put this on the agenda on September 8th and ratify it.
6:10:18 You could ratify it. You can terminate it. You can do whatever you want with it.
6:10:22 So, we're not We need to give direction to staff right now. Which direction to go in with appraisal or proceed with this? Uh, right. Now, I'm assuming right?
6:10:34 Uh let me let me before we get let me stop this and this is a this is a public meeting you know anyone in the public want to speak to this may come up and speak but uh basically what we are
6:10:42 talking about is is uh we had an offer for 42 acre somebody offered us to sell a piece of property 42 acres um which is
6:10:52 at a great price uh less less than $600,000 $600,000 basically it's about 10 acres high and dry it's on
6:11:00 a lake it's adjacent to Lake Felter And it would give us the entire north half of Lake Felter real estate that
6:11:08 backs up to the high the elementary school there and the existing park that we have.
6:11:18 Exactly. Let's just do it.
6:11:20 I mean that's you can blame the gentleman to my right who stood up at that
6:11:27 process. I got say to me that it's a nobrainer. To me, it's no. We go ahead and move it down the road. However, you
6:11:35 know, we do have the right to cancel this all out later. And yes, we do need an appraisal, but knowing what the offer is and where we
6:11:42 are, I think we're not making a mistake here. So, uh, it's up to you all. I I don't, if I may. Yeah.
6:11:49 Um, I don't think it's a mis I don't think it has anything to do with a mistake, though. it. I just because we're all in agreement in a $600,000
6:11:57 expenditure doesn't mean it's the right thing to do without public publicly noticing it and putting it on the agenda and talking about it. I I think we have
6:12:05 to just think about that just because we all think it's a good idea doesn't mean that every resident out there thinks it's a good idea. And it is it's it's
6:12:14 not general fund money. I get that. But I I was gonna ask the question where was it going to come from? I assumed it was park park and wrench
6:12:22 but a staff report would tell us that right and so you know the reality is is that I'm
6:12:29 okay if the direction given tonight is order an appraisal but I I don't know that I'm comfortable
6:12:38 saying I authorize us actually going under contract and approving the purchase without actually having it
6:12:47 noticed on a meeting and with a staff report and a map so people know what we're talking about.
6:12:53 Whether or not we think it's a great deal, right, Mr. B? I'm concerned about that.
6:12:57 I think well, my intention anyway to look at it tonight is go ahead and give staff direction to go ahead and pursue the the appraisal uh look at pursuing
6:13:06 the contract. However, yes, it do it still need to come back to council at the earliest convenience, but I just don't think we're going to get appraisal
6:13:14 done within the next two weeks. So, as soon as we can get it back to council for for a public hearing on it, uh, due diligence, but uh, right now, uh, we
6:13:23 kind of under the gun, so we need to make some kind of motion to go ahead and give staff some kind of direction to get the motion started.
6:13:29 So, let's at least take the public comment. Huh?
6:13:33 Yes, sir. You took the words out of my mouth. Is there a time limit? Yeah.
6:13:38 Vincent, Regency Hills, you took the words out of my mouth. Okay. All right.
6:13:41 Is there a time limit? How long does the appraisal take? And then by the time we get to the next meeting, are we going to lose this opportunity?
6:13:48 That's all I was concerned about. You're talking about six me and my partner over there could invest into that and we'll offer them $700,000 and it still sounds like a good thing.
6:13:58 Okay. I mean, think about it that you spot on, your honor. You're right.
6:14:02 There's a time limit and we might lose it.
6:14:04 Yep. So So what say council? Well, anyone else from the public? If not, anyone online? No. uh close public comment and bring it back to kids staff.
6:14:15 We're supposed to be doing reports, but yeah, but well, we supposed to be doing report gave us in his report. So,
6:14:23 uh all right, let's put order around this.
6:14:25 Let's do the comments if we can and that way we can have a final chance to comment. Okay. Uh Mr.
6:14:34 Are we approving the contract or are we giving you direction to order an appraisal and the contract will actually come before us for ratification at a later date?
6:14:44 What's your request?
6:14:47 Well, I can order a contract right now through continued services. So, I don't need approval to do that. I do have a
6:14:55 contract that I have signed that has to have city council approval. So that was
6:15:02 the direction I was given from talking to the five of you individually to go ahead and pursue this property. And like
6:15:09 I said, there was somebody interested and that's why the speed of this had to go faster than normal because I too
6:15:16 would prefer a process. But the BIS like we we talked about business doesn't wait for government unfortunately. So, I
6:15:25 would like to have an approval, but if you guys aren't comfortable with that, we're still under contract and I can try
6:15:33 my best. I'm at the vendor's mercy on an appraisal if I can get it done by next week or not. So, that's my only concern,
6:15:40 Mr. Bain, but I too would prefer to slow it down, but I don't know how to do that in this particular case.
6:15:47 Can we vote on it now or is it it has to be as an agenda item in order for us to vote on it?
6:15:52 We can vote on it. What is No, it technically doesn't have to be an agenda item. Um, it could come in reports. It could be something you all take up.
6:16:00 So, we can make we can make a motion to approve this right now. Yes. And to go in contract if you So, I'd like to make a motion
6:16:08 that we approve this the purchase of this property uh today and then we could we could wait. I
6:16:17 mean, obviously we could say we want to get an appraisal, but the appraisals we feel like this is is a good bargain.
6:16:24 Well, unless you know it's swamp land or something and it's all it's all good.
6:16:30 Some of it some of it is is um swamp land. However, that can be turned in reserve and dedicated to uh uh
6:16:39 preservation and everything. So, but uh most of it by one of the question I had when I first heard about it is 50% of it usable land and it was pretty much yes.
6:16:50 But anyway% the motion that's your motion and I'll second now. Okay. Motion. Do we need to put a
6:16:58 stipulation in there that we have can to cancel out the contract by one October?
6:17:03 Well, you can if you want. That would be a kind of but what we have in here is if you look at section right we don't have it
6:17:11 it's 30 days 30 days from the time that it's fully executed and I I don't even see their signature on there. So um it's 30 days from when
6:17:20 it's fully executed. So at the very least it's 30 days from I think the 20th. Where's the signature on here?
6:17:29 20th. At the very least, if there's a signed copy from uh from them, but if they haven't signed it or they're waiting for us to approve it,
6:17:37 then it would be 30 days running from when we approve.
6:17:40 From the day they sign and when they sign.
6:17:42 Okay. All right. So, we don't need to put put that stipulation in there. Correct. Okay. We got a motion. Second.
6:17:49 Have a motion and a second to go ahead and have the uh city manager execute the soal so contract as as presented. Any further discussion?
6:17:58 Yes, please. Um, I want to make sure.
6:18:02 So, we have 30 days and buyers paying all closing costs. Are
6:18:10 there any broker's fees in here? I didn't notice any.
6:18:19 Yeah, I I believe that they were wanting to do this without going through any brokers. Is that legal? It's certainly legal.
6:18:26 Okay. Well, I mean, we're a city. I don't know what our I don't we don't buy a lot of real estate, at least not while I've been here. Um,
6:18:34 so for purposes of the public, I have had a conversation with Mr. Van Wagner about this. I've had a conversation with
6:18:42 the one of the owners about this. I've looked at the land both in person. Now, I didn't tour the land. I've literally looked at it from a distance. Um,
6:18:50 obviously looked at it online. Um, my understanding is it's something like 8 to 10 acres of usable space. which still
6:18:59 at $600,000 considering it's all on the lake, considering it's adjacent to an existing park, considering it backs up
6:19:06 to a school. I mean, land is not land is unique, so every piece of property is different. And I think this one has a
6:19:13 lot of potential use for the city. If we didn't, Mr. Bain, have an opportunity to come back within 30 days and cancel for
6:19:20 any reason, I would not be inclined to vote for this tonight. What I would be asking is that we put this on the agenda for September 8th for ratification.
6:19:30 So that what we're doing is creating the opportunity for the city to acquire this land but not fully committing to it until we ratify it on September 8th.
6:19:39 That is what I would like to do. Meaning we sign it and we rely on the 30-day cancellation due diligence period. we
6:19:48 don't have to put in in my opinion we don't have to put in the contract and I need you to advise us on that that we are going to ratify it on September 8th it's just as a practical matter I would
6:19:56 like to see it on the agenda on September 8th so that we have an opportunity to either move forward or terminate but I would like to move
6:20:04 forward so that we don't lose this opportunity for the citizens of Clermont so we go moving forward tonight
6:20:12 I'm speaking my opinion there's our opinion there's that there's other motion in a second. There was other discussion. Anyone else?
6:20:21 You're done.
6:20:22 I mean, I guess I'd like to know if we're all okay with that process because put putting it on the agenda on September 8th is really important to me that we're doing that, not that we're
6:20:30 just moving forward and we never see it again. So, I guess I would my request would then be, Mr. Peterson, would you amend your motion to say we approve the
6:20:39 contract and want to see it on the agenda on September 8th for ratification or termination? approving the contract tonight and then ratifying it on
6:20:47 September 8th. Is that Well, I I just let me I I hate to jump in, but I think the motion probably that
6:20:54 best exemplifies what you're trying to do would be a motion to approve and to have it on the agenda at the next meeting. Okay.
6:21:02 For whatever decision you want. To say for ratification implies it's not fully approved today. Okay. But it would be okay.
6:21:09 In order to trigger trigger the contract, right?
6:21:14 Okay. So, basically, I'm going to make a motion then to approve the contract tonight and put it on the but put it on the September 8th agenda.
6:21:24 Yeah. For for public notice day. Notice I second that. Okay.
6:21:28 All right. I have a motion and a second for approval of uh land purchase prop uh given by Mr. Van Wagner. Any further
6:21:38 discussion? And hearing none, all in favor, let it be known by saying I. I.
6:21:45 All oppose. Chair vote. I as well. Thank you, sir. Anything else, Mr. Van Wagner? That's plenty. Thank you.
6:21:54 That's plenty. You're right. Uh, can I ask a question? Do we have any update on 911?
6:22:04 Um, Chief is I don't see anybody here, Mr. Mayor. I'll have to get back with you.
6:22:09 All right. Cuz uh I I I haven't heard anything on 911 this this year. I'll get staff to reach out to you.
6:22:16 Well, uh thank you. And of course I know you talk about the seventh and 8th, but that week also is 911 as well.
6:22:21 20 year 25th year anniversary. So yes.
6:22:24 So uh Mr. Wah, no report. Mayor, Miss Myers.
6:22:33 Good evening everyone. I would like to remind everyone about our meet the candidates that um what will happen
6:22:40 there is that they will be asked five questions. Then the public will be able to ask questions as well and then um
6:22:48 once the candidate forum is finished then um the citizens will be able to connect with the candidates. It will be
6:22:56 on Monday September 14th at the Clermont City Center located at 620 West Montro Street. that's across the street. It will be from 6:00 to 8:00.
6:23:06 Everyone is invited. Um and there will be light refreshments will be served.
6:23:12 And again, this is an opportunity for candidates um to meet the citizens and for citizens to ask questions of the
6:23:20 candidates that want to sit up here. And um while I'm at it, mayor, will we will we see you there on Probably not.
6:23:27 Okay.
6:23:29 Not sure yet, but right now my schedule not allowing me to. I've been looking at that's why I haven't responded yet, but
6:23:36 Okay. Well, we're still going forth and um if you can come, we would love to have you there. Um but the citizens, we
6:23:43 want you to come out. It's for everyone to come and ask questions and see what the people who want to represent this city have to say. Thank you.
6:23:52 Thank you. Uh Council Member Peterson.
6:23:57 Well, we we just came back from the Florida League of Cities convention and it was a a great time there. We were doing a lot of networking with other
6:24:05 council members from from the state. It was a way for you know you it was a good way like just like the meeting with meet the candidate. It was meet the other
6:24:13 councilman and you you learn from them you know that you learn how they did business there and different things that everybody's looking for. you know, some
6:24:21 people looking for EMS, some people looking for garages, but you know, it was it was a good time.
6:24:28 The other thing I I you know, that caught my attention was we talked about designer drugs. Is that something that
6:24:34 we as a city can ban can I don't, you know, I don't even
6:24:41 know. I mean, it's not just a drug. It's now they're they're coming out with with designer drugs that they're selling in
6:24:48 gas stations and things like that. How do we I mean it I think our function is to protect the citizens you know and the
6:24:56 citizens are the youth right that are getting you know hurt and injured by these drugs you know just like we're talking about bicycle paths and people
6:25:05 getting hit by cars but people are getting killed by drugs here and we need to I don't know if we need to form a
6:25:12 board I mean I don't think I'm qualified to say this is a design like this or not but I know there is people out that that
6:25:21 are. So, I would maybe see if we can get some kind of direction from the city manager as to how we go about this or
6:25:29 what we how we can at least start the process going. I support that.
6:25:33 You know, and other than that, that's it.
6:25:38 Thank you, M. uh Council Member Strange. For purposes of uh transparency for the
6:25:46 council and also the public, I have been working with the city manager and our finance director in an effort to split our what might be normally classified in
6:25:55 general fund into three different categories. One being capital, which is pretty straightforward and easy. A couple years ago, our finance director
6:26:03 suggested we keep our 25% um reserve plus 10% for capital. And then what is that? That's our general
6:26:10 fund. 25% of our general fund which means kind of operations for business people which are operating fund but because we have this surplus which has
6:26:19 led to a really I think fun conversation says the it's not fun for most people but it's fun for me is hopefully every
6:26:26 year our staff does a great job and we have leftover money well what happens to that leftover money and that goes into the surplus
6:26:35 but surplus is actually kind of funky because depending on your general fund operations the surplus changes is 25% changes every year. So, I've been
6:26:43 talking to Mr. Boore about creating another bucket of money that we might call our dream fund or our special projects fund where we can take all the
6:26:52 interest that we're earning off of our enterprise funds. That was his idea. And then also the surplus each year, which in this case we have about 24 million in
6:26:59 surplus, and we can put that into the special funds. Why do I like that?
6:27:04 Because if we have capital funds and we have special funds in our general fund, what happens is it two things. One, it
6:27:11 looks like our day-to-day operations are much higher than they really are because we have about 20 million 30% of our budget that's going to special projects.
6:27:20 And then the result is we have to keep more in our reserve to cover special projects instead of incorporating that into the project which you would
6:27:27 normally do in project management. So Mr. Bore is working on that. He's not changing anything on the finance side.
6:27:33 he's going to do printed reports. We're going to use Excel spreadsheets to kind of show that. And I think we're going to see that fairly soon. So, I'm excited about that and I think it's going to
6:27:40 make it really easy for us to make decisions when we can see kind of those different buckets of the general fund. Um, lumberyard swailes came up tonight.
6:27:50 Um, they make me angry. I'm going to be honest. It is what it is. But I don't believe that those swailes are for city property. I am told that those swailes
6:27:58 are for the roads that we added. And I would like to get a report from staff that speaks to that exact issue. Are
6:28:05 those swailes for the benefit of the lumberyard or are they for the benefit of the city for the additional roadways that came because we specifically sat
6:28:13 here on this council and said we are not providing swailes for a commercial project. So I would like a report on that. Mr. Vwagner 60 days. Is that enough time do you think?
6:28:25 60 days. Okay great. Um, Hancock, I'll talk about it another time. It does. It's important, but I'm running
6:28:33 out of time. Um, um, oh, I want to remind the public the RFI for the parking solutions downtown is
6:28:42 still open. Please get that in. And I think that's it. Two seconds.
6:28:48 I know I had more.
6:28:50 Thank you, Mr. B.
6:28:54 Maybe we can start yielding each other our leftover time.
6:28:58 Um, Council Member Peterson, you brought up about the designer drugs. I know the resident who spoke this evening, uh, I've met with her a couple of times.
6:29:08 She's also met with, uh, staff at the Clermont Police Department, and I think that, um, uh, there's some willingness
6:29:16 by our staff, and I don't want to speak for them. So, obviously the city manager needs to will need to get with the chief on whether or not um this is true, but I
6:29:25 guess there was some expressed interest in trying to spearhead a small group to get some things working in that way. I was also contacted by a local attorney
6:29:33 who had represented a family who had lost a loved one and and had a connection to that. And uh so I've given that information to the resident as
6:29:42 well. So maybe we can have some synergy from from those conversations to bring something for us for some sort of action or or concrete discussion.
6:29:51 Um, as uh the city manager mentioned, Labor Day is coming up. So, I wanted to um just thank everyone who works for the
6:30:00 city of Clermont and does everything they do to make our community a great place to live, uh a great place to do business, a great place to be proud of.
6:30:12 Um, and I appreciate everything that you do for that. And finally, um, we talked earlier tonight about an appraisal requirement for surplus sales. And I
6:30:21 would like to gauge, uh, temperature of the rest of the, uh, council to give direction to the city manager to bring back a resolution or ordinance, whatever
6:30:30 it needs to be, to require an appraisal, uh, for any surplus sales. I'm uh just straight up that require the actual
6:30:38 appraisal so that we have the figure before we decide on a on a on um selling a surplus.
6:30:45 I support that. I just don't want us to be tied to that number. Yep. But I fully support it. Just bring it.
6:30:52 Anyone? Okay. I think I think we have consensus. Thank you. Yeah. Mr. maths.
6:31:00 Just real quick, I want to give you an update on the software audit that we've been talking about for a little while and even came up today. So, our IT team
6:31:08 did do a ton of work in last year's budget cycle with the Microsoft 365 conversion that did save us some money, but with that being said, there's still
6:31:15 some lowhanging fruit that we're pulling from in in the current audit that will save us a little bit of money. some of the things that we have duplicated in in
6:31:23 different departments or things that we don't really use anymore that we've been paying for. Uh in this upcoming fiscal year, there's going to be two things that we expect to take place. We're
6:31:32 going to be with the IT department consolidating our physical access like our alarms such as ADP and things like that. They're being brought inhouse
6:31:40 which is going to save us about 60% from last year. and the security cameras that that we have on our wastewater and well
6:31:47 systems, those we were using outside monitoring systems. We're bringing those inhouse, too. That'll save some money.
6:31:53 But what we anticipate is most of the future savings will come from the consolidation of software. We're looking at consolidating a lot of software for
6:32:01 our 311 center. So, we're only using a a few different softwares that all the departments can use. This doesn't count
6:32:09 for like police and fire because they have very specialized softwares, but this will make us more nimble and we are still exploring the different ways to
6:32:17 combine those. So, we'll have more information on what that savings might be probably as we talk with all the department heads and get all of these softwares in place. So, thank you.
6:32:28 That's all I had.
6:32:29 Thank you. And now for my report, uh Valerie's request. I think you just addressed that with the swells down there. So, I'm not going to go into that. had
6:32:37 as Mr. Van Mr. Peterson say we just returned from the FLC Florida League of Cities conference myself Mr. Peterson
6:32:45 Mr. Bain was there and I just want to iterate the two main topics that everybody was concentrating on down
6:32:53 there this year was property tax and data centers. Okay. Um when those workshops came up you couldn't hardly
6:33:01 find a seat in in the place. I mean they were just humongous participation there.
6:33:06 Um I'm sorry the candidate form I have other schedule uh things right now. I'm looking to try to change that but then again at the same time I do candidate
6:33:14 form almost every day as far as I'm concerned uh with the people out here.
6:33:18 And one of the reason why I do my mayor's lunchon which is coming up on the next Tuesday on the 1st is for the
6:33:26 residents to be able to sit down and talk with me and meet with me and everything. So and that's the whole purpose behind that. Um, because I always want to hear hear from the
6:33:34 residents and all. Um, but I'm sorry, but the 14th I already have other things on my calendar. I'm looking to change that, but other than that, I'm fine. Uh,
6:33:42 Mr. W, our new nuisant nuisant law, where are we with that?
6:33:49 We're we have completed the first draft.
6:33:51 Okay. And we will be presenting it, I think, uh, maybe the next meeting.
6:33:57 Okay. Okay. cuz we we need to we need to go ahead and get that get that done and all. Um and of course I've asked to talk
6:34:05 to you after the meeting about uh something else in relation to that.
6:34:10 Other than that that's that's all I have. I think all the other questions everything been answered like I say uh I had Valerie on here but that's been
6:34:17 taken care of. Anybody else have anything that need to come before the council?
6:34:24 And nothing meeting adjourned.