Parking garage meeting transcript 8/27/26

1:00 I should now call the meeting to order. I apologize about my lateness.
1:06 And uh we do need a motion and a okay on the minutes from last meeting.
1:12 Motion to approve last week's meeting minutes as stated. Second. All right. All those in favor?
1:19 Any opposed? Motion passes.
1:23 All right. first uh discussion of designs with the CPH, right? And are they already online
1:30 or they're waiting until Well, all right. Well, why don't we just
1:41 tell them what's I'll go ahead and just give everybody a number. Sorry, I could not attend last week. I was out of town. Um
1:49 what's happened since last week is that the city has engaged pursuant to the budget given um the firm firm of CPH
1:58 which is based in Tampa who's one of our um existing vendors that we can hire for special projects. out of all the
2:07 architectural firms that uh are on our current list, uh they were the ones by with by far more park and garage
2:16 experience than everybody else. So, they were selected to assist us. Uh Zayn and I actually had a a team's meeting with
2:24 them earlier this week for about an hour, hour and a half where we uh sort of reviewed uh where we were, where
2:32 we're headed, what we're trying to achieve. Um uh uh went through everything that they're worried about in a very methodical fashion. Um, we're
2:41 going to have them give you an uh an Well, they're going to uh give you the opportunity. Well, actually, they're
2:50 going to they're not giving you an opportunity so much as they're going to be asking you some questions just about on the the uh both the sites and talking
2:59 about some of the different things that you've discussed and sort of uh come to a consensus on or not. But they're going to have the opportunity. We thought it
3:07 was important that they have the opportunity to talk directly with Even if they're not in the room, they make a noise over there.
3:14 No, you're getting a reverb back from this PC.
3:17 Oh, does this if I'm talking right now?
3:24 I think it was maybe somebody. I think it's the CPH people. Okay. So, they're lined up on there, right?
3:34 Oh, we'll see them as soon as they log in. So, they're not follow Oh, that's right. That's your That's a photo of you. Is he?
3:44 Yeah. Oh, that's crazy.
3:48 All right. So, so that's uh so they're going to have an opportunity to hear from you instead of just hearing from Zay and me about what we thought we
3:56 heard from you and the like. Um they uh they have proposed a way about uh going
4:03 about this. Um say, well, I should ask you, have you received any materials
4:10 outlining our the scope of how they're going to work with us. You haven't received it. All right. Then I'll just give you a quick overview. The idea is
4:19 that um they've essentially agreed to develop three concept plans for each
4:25 site. Okay. And so that's that's should be our our goal is to make sure that we
4:32 have three concept plans all of which may be legitimate if we're considering different considerations. This is an
4:39 example. Um, we could choose the one if uh money is not an issue. Then we could choose the one that where money is the only issue. Okay? And then we should
4:48 could choose something in between. The idea is that they they'll develop three concept plans for each one. Then um they
4:56 will uh uh they will secure feedback from y'all in order to spend extra time
5:03 going beyond a basic concept plan to one that's very uh illustrated and has even more details about it and where they can
5:11 do a more detailed analysis. So that's sort of where their heads are. If we need to
5:19 change that because if something comes up, we'll probably be able to work with them. But that's that's what they thought would be the most efficient way to go about it. Any questions about that?
5:29 All right.
5:30 If I chime in real quick, so last not
5:41 attorney, but at present moment
6:00 right preliminary.
6:06 And as a reminder, we're on a hyper fast speed with these design concepts. So
6:16 today will be a good opportunity if you've got, you know, the way I'm looking at it is if you've got any questions in the back of your head, um
6:23 your job isn't to be nice and polite to these folks. It's to raise those questions and make sure we have a thorough understanding of where they're
6:32 headed because they're looking, you know, more than anything they want guidance. Okay? They want guidance from y'all. They want that doesn't mean they just need to listen to one person. It's
6:41 it's not our job to to worry about their feelings. Our job is to ask them as much as we can and give them as much guidance so it makes their job a little easier.
6:50 Can I speak a few things into the record and maybe have the attorney look at a specific piece? So, I was able if
6:59 anybody wants a look, I'll do my best to call it out, but this is, you know, it's creative information. It's It's there, right?
7:08 I can take that. Yes. Yes. You want me to hand it to you? Uh, yes.
7:15 Um, I I did make two copies. I would have made a copy for everybody, but I wasn't sure if I could. But there were a
7:22 couple questions. Just so you guys know, I'm not an attorney. never masquerading as one. I did go to law school and so I
7:30 did get a chance to look over. So specifically the under the section of contract for sale and purchase.
7:42 There's a couple things that I would love the attorney to look at. Is this allowed? No, this is exactly what should be done.
7:52 So under there's two sections I looked at. We're really one section. It's section 13 under again that contract section.
8:01 Um under A1 it says buyer ceases. So basically
8:09 there's stipulation. This was the sale of the property to the city and there's triggers whereby
8:17 the seller could buy back or he could ask to buy back. Um in section one it
8:24 says buyer ceases to use the property for a parking lot slash facility
8:31 or the buyer otherwise fails to ad uh sorry adhere to the parking entitlements.
8:39 So the slash to me is very important because it's it's great. So um and then
8:48 the other section was in part C where it says as part of the consideration of the repurchase option,
8:56 the buyer expressly agrees that the buyer shall not enter into any sales agreement or long-term lease of the
9:05 property without a provision that such sales agreement or lease is subject to the repurchase option. Those two
9:14 sections I believe could get us into some trouble. So that is section 13.
9:21 That is section 131. Okay.
9:25 And and see and see.
9:27 Can you read one again where you're getting to that slash because it's a definition there.
9:32 What's what's capitalized is the question.
9:34 So uh you want to look at its So again I I'm not and I I trust the city attorney like much more eligible
9:43 pass the bar. I did not. But those two things were like these are triggers where at the very least it could end us back into lawsuit.
9:53 Specifically related to the commercial mix use. Yes. When when was the date of this contract?
10:00 2022 I believe. Yeah. It's good for the top.
10:03 Give me one second. It doesn't say on the top. It's good for 10 years.
10:06 That's what I was wanting to back into that part because I saw that you had that highlighted. So yeah. Yeah. Again, this is super boring reading and the reason I'm not an attorney.
10:16 This is what I do. It was 2021. Okay. So, it's good till 2031. Yeah.
10:21 Um, this is why I'm not an attorney because I I do not want to read these documents all but I buckled down because
10:29 I was like, I just want to make sure it's just Yeah, it's just parking lot or you could read it as parking facility. So, it's lot facility. So,
10:37 facility is still referencing back to parking. And I was really concerned about this section C where it said the city can't enter into any kind of cell
10:46 or lease and if they do it could trigger back the sale back too. Right.
10:52 It is important to note that and thank you very much for looking into that because I also read the agreement and that was uh somewhat my concl it's kind
11:01 of in a gray area. I do recall that this is not actual legally binding because it happened during a city council meeting, but I do recall that when Mr.
11:12 Springfellow was giving his presentation, I believe the mayor asked him if he would be willing to negotiate the settlement if the city move forward
11:20 and get and at the time he was requesting I think at least 300 parking spots or something like that.
11:28 So I think that given it's a green agree
11:35 attorney could reach out to Mr. Strange to see if this something that in his mind would be acceptable.
11:42 Right. And again we're just presenting the best three options. I just immediately get concerned about gray areas are where lawsuits happen.
11:51 Right.
11:52 All right. Are there any other questions for the attorney that'll been thinking about that should be one thing you saw
12:00 that I didn't see a specific number. So I would assume both issues with both those sections could be cured with just a simple agreement through Mr.
12:09 Stringfell to allow because Right. Right. Well, we'll leave that to the attorney, but is there any other issue? Yes, we will. uh uh is
12:17 but I just don't want to it shouldn't hamper necessarily the development company from saying presenting maybe a a
12:24 retail or a commercial uh component to it for the council to consider for either site because
12:31 it seems like you know Mr. Stringfell the owner of the property wants to wants to move this forward on that property so he may be willing to negotiate that that
12:40 those two clauses so I wouldn't let them I wouldn't say because it's in there we're worried about it we still shouldn't about the other two the other two parts.
12:48 Yeah, I I agree and thankfully that's for the council and the mayor to figure out with them.
12:54 But I I agree. I'd hate to see it. We get super excited. We have a good plan and then it immediately goes away
13:02 because Yeah. No, that's fair.
13:04 The question becomes, do you use one of the designs with the risk taking that you may ended up not being accepted or do you use two out of the three that includes?
13:14 Well, it seems like the the money only option if money is the only option section would probably be more towards a
13:22 straight up parking garage. Anything else will be more money and more development. So it one of these three um
13:30 concepts will be probably mixed use. One will probably be very little mixed use and the other one will be straight
13:36 parking garage. Well, um, my my big my biggest concern and and maybe you'll
13:43 agree with this is the sheer fact that Mr. Stringfell will built in so many
13:50 possible triggers for a repurchase means he has a very clear idea of what he wanted
13:59 and or didn't want or Yeah. Okay. Yes. Yes. He probably even more fair. So, I just think we need to at least note that. and get the city attorney to look at it.
14:09 And I'm on the same page because if he does not want the mixed use, we're going to shoot ourselves two out of the three choices. And we ended up with just the
14:16 one that is the most affordable but very basic.
14:20 Well, I think any any recommendation would be contingent on an agreement with the owner of the property to make these changes. If not, then that's up to the
14:29 city council and, you know, PNC to probably figure out what the ultimate makeup of that. We're just providing like, you know, blue sky type stuff.
14:36 That's right. It's going to be up to them to hammer out the details.
14:40 Yeah. I'm really happy it's up to them after reading that document.
14:43 It's a it's a one like, you know, it's good contract. Good contracts tend to be pretty one-sided. That's what I read just in that section.
14:52 I'm like, man, that's okay. Yes. I wouldn't do that deal.
14:54 Okay. So, you saw Okay, good. I'm actually feel good that you feel that way if you read them often because I read it. the city decided to sell that
15:02 property now and for any for development because they need the money then you know he would be out of a lot of parking spots for retail that he has the tenants
15:10 in. So, and that's the way that contract reads to me is it really it it
15:16 it really holds the city's you know or restrains the city from expanding beyond parking and that is the way that
15:24 well and I know I know the current council and the current mayor they've done a really good job of like keeping
15:31 us out of study but I know they inherited a bunch you know so um I don't think any of
15:42 I think it's good to be cognizant of these things, but I'm wondering if we're going too much into the weeds because this is going to be up for the city attorney. I know that there's a
15:50 concern of going over the cost obviously cost is a big factor or doing something that is not going to be accepted because
15:57 it is against the settlement. Uh at the same time, the assumption not the assumption but the initial assumption by
16:05 the uh city attorney is that we can do at least So, I would say let's go with that. Like, let's evaluate the science.
16:14 I I mean this with all due respect, and the city attorney probably won't take it this way.
16:21 That's a that's a really strong contract and I do not I do not believe there's as much wiggle room as he does. However, he
16:31 is the professional. So I just wanted that to be in there and for for him to kind of like look at that because I think the best situation is we present
16:39 the best who knows where it is but if it is seven they are already able to start doing some of the pre-talks to get the
16:48 amendments um because it because the contract reads he wants a parking garage somewhere you
16:55 know so that's that's a positive anyways um so are we are They're not on not till 3:30. Got 10 more minutes.
17:05 So then we can still discuss what we want in seven street design blue sky.
17:13 That's right. What what the what the contractors or the the consultants are going to want to know is what are your
17:20 highest priorities? And I know a lot of you submitted emails talking about priorities, but that that gives them a clear vision for what they need to be
17:29 able to do. because they can do three concepts on each. We can get, you know, we can we can have those fluctuate so they don't have to be precise. But just being clear is what you should
17:37 and I don't know that they're going to be that different from from Yeah. from what we've already kind of picked here to there. I think it's
17:44 is everybody on board for I think everybody wants as many parking spots as possible. That was the number one priority. Yes. Number of parking spaces.
17:53 My correction, not everybody, but that was how the consensus, right? I mean, we're looking for three separate designs. Obviously, design one maximize.
18:01 Is everybody okay with that being one of the things that we share with them and that we do want to maximize the number spot? Yeah.
18:10 Well, but they were going to be full size spots. Okay. No golf cart spots in there.
18:16 Well, okay. Alternative vehicle I think was on our list, but but some parking structures you go to and like I think the city parking is 10
18:24 by 20. Sometimes you go somewhere and they're 9 by 18, you know. So, so let's let's be sure we can open our doors.
18:34 Okay. So, I just wanted to clarify that we can have parking for alternatives. Yeah.
18:38 Oh, yeah. That's Can I bring something up as before
18:44 um for ADA when we talk about you know disabled parking
18:51 doesn't that usually go on first floor because of height? If it's first floor that's going to affect this retail proposal as well.
18:59 Either first floor or closest spots to the elevator.
19:03 Yeah. So they could be there is a height issue. No, if you go above first floor above ground.
19:09 Well, it depends. You mean as far as the height of the vehicle
19:21 like it's like seven 72 Yeah, but a lot of just normal sedans have a handicap parking sticker.
19:31 They they don't need the side entrance, but they need they need to be close to the elevator or the door. Well, still
19:38 per code on ADA, you still have to have it's like handicap parking, then you have to have that side load spot.
19:45 So, it's either every other kind of So, to your point, yes, there should be ADA on the first floor.
19:52 You could get away with a few extra on the upper floors close to an elevator if we go that route.
19:57 But yes, as well you would then take away from additional parking if you put some commercial on the first.
20:05 It's one of those things. It's there's not an official classification. There's not.
20:10 But but I was we we need spots for pregnant people, but that's not code.
20:15 I I know it's not code. It doesn't exist, but as a society, we need those.
20:23 Okay, so we've got maximum spots. We do want to look at the provision of alternative vehicles, etc.
20:29 So with maximum maximum spots then would also include maximum height then as well. Correct. I mean to me it does.
20:37 Okay. Yeah. I I uh had a a deep dive. I kind of went down a
20:46 rabbit hole of ladder trucks and sizes and what we might need. Yeah. But I it was all in the effect of Yes. maximum
20:55 height if possible too because if if you have higher ceilings
21:03 on each level that may decrease one level.
21:10 Just for my minutes. Uh we had consensus on ADA alternative vehicle parking and height because of parking spaces is a priority.
21:22 Can I clarify something?
21:23 We don't have an option about right. Yeah, we don't.
21:26 Okay. ADA is a thing. So once again, they're going to be looking for Have you had a discussion about these spec? Do
21:34 you already have a list or anything? So, you know, I think it mirrors what we had last, but if if the ground floor is
21:42 extra high and all your ADA is on the ground floor, then you could have lower clearance on floors 2, three, four, five.
21:52 That's a question.
21:53 Yeah. The only point is that depending on the number of parking spots, I believe there's a percentage that needs to be dedicated to the ADA. And when you
22:01 take that on the first floor because that's where it goes. This makes use space becomes you got to take away from that total
22:09 number of spaces pretty quick unless we figured out a way to wrap to where you're not impacting necessarily.
22:18 It depends upon I don't know what the number of ADA spot requirement is and that's not for us because I think you're right
22:26 baked into what they're going to be there was a conversation last week about extra ADA accessibility and that's what I was trying to because there was the
22:34 pregnant parking conversation for pregnant mothers and that's uh what I want to get clarification on.
22:42 So, where were just kind of where were we at with that?
22:48 Maximizing parking spots with the code on 88 required 88 parking and
22:54 if it if it interferes with on the ground floor with the retail or any commercial aspect of it, then so be it.
23:01 It's just we have to comply to code. So, that's not an option.
23:04 So, one minor tweak is I don't think that needs to be said because they're going to do it anyway. Yeah.
23:10 If we envision a rectangle, some people might put all the all the ADA in one corner
23:17 and I would advocate putting half of it on the east end towards the merchants and half of it on the west end. Okay.
23:28 Half on each street because the current parking lot the ADA is up in the corner closest to the buildings
23:37 but furthest from the entrance. So that some people are going to you park by the building but you have to walk all the way around the car entrance
23:45 to get around the gate. So it totally defeated the purpose of ADA. Right.
23:54 I don't know if that makes it clearer for you because I think at the end of the day at the end of the day they're going to say you need this many spots.
24:01 So we want we're going with code. Yes.
24:04 What the code is. Okay. I don't think we're asking for more. Code is distance. Okay.
24:12 So, so it's not a number.
24:14 Well, I'm reading standard lots. There's a required minimum ratio of one for every 25 spots or 2% for larger lots.
24:22 But there's also something about the slope. So I would leave for the professionals but there's something that so when there is a pro not a problem but
24:30 seventh street if my memory serves it dips at one section it's lower than the other so you're right about that
24:39 there is slope of spot spot so obviously once we get into the garage everything's going to be flat
24:46 and you wouldn't put if you do a helix type of garage you're not going to put a spot on the slope of the helix
24:55 So, but I think too with the distance, it's more of if I'm building a public shopping center, I can't be more than 200 feet away from that ADA ramp to the
25:04 front to the to that is accessible to get up onto the sidewalk.
25:07 And and something unique about this garage is what you're saying is that there are people that will park there to get to the businesses and people that'll
25:16 park there to get to the street to walk to other places. So I I think we go ADA
25:23 comp and let them figure out the best use of where they should thank you.
25:33 Um, I know there was a component we had about one of the other things we talked about
25:42 was was size or height of of seven. What's Yes, sir.
25:50 Yeah. Can I just interrupt real quick?
25:52 From the designer's point of view, they're going to want to know three things more than anything else. And I'll just throw them in there in case you've already reached consensus or what have
26:01 We're going to be looking for what is the footprint, okay? The specific footprint and that's impacted by some of the decisions that
26:08 you make as it relates to are we going to wrap it on this street or that street? Is there going to be some thing or something like that? So, they're
26:15 looking for the the physical then they're going to be talking about what you set up. They want how high are we?
26:21 And they can always just say, okay, this is what would happen if we added what you know. So what's sort of the minimum height that you're going to be looking at is what they need more than anything
26:29 else because they can dream up oh it's going to be eight stories what they just all you do is the it's just math right
26:36 so so the height the minimum height would be really important and then you've got the decision about the
26:44 W oh he's on it um and then the other issue is are the
26:52 decisions related to uh how the uh how the exterior of the building greets the
26:59 everything around it. So that is what is there a liner there? If so, what is it?
27:03 Is it a is a separation? Um you know that was one of the DPC plans for behind this was actually a disconnected
27:11 building. It serves like a liner but it wasn't attached to the actual structure itself. Then it could be done later a
27:18 separate thing whatever. But uh those are the those are going to be some of the parameters that are most import
27:25 And I think are are we I don't think we have unanimous about max height because I think you had some
27:33 questions about it. You had some questions about that too.
27:35 Yeah. But I mean I did as well. Yeah.
27:40 Well, minimum height is the most important. Yeah.
27:42 So what is the minimum? Because like to me when I picture it, I'm picturing it has to be at least four stories.
27:52 Like last meeting it was determined by consensus that the first priority will be maximum number of spots and I think
27:59 Mr. at 450. Like we voted on that, right? That that's for here or here for this parking spot. We never got we
28:07 didn't get to we never got to seventh in Gotcha.
28:09 Because Seventh Street we could So So it could be that we put in a minimum of this many spots,
28:18 but this location on seventh has a capability of being a much higher maximum.
28:25 Um can we interrupt just to see if they can hear us now? Commission. Waldo, can you hear us?
28:35 Chip, you can hear us, too. Yes, sir.
28:39 Yes, we're doing great. I just, you know, I want to make sure we have the technology up.
28:47 I'm sorry.
28:51 So, what does everybody else feel about maximum height? Well, I think if you if you
28:57 the garage on at city hall would be less utilized Monday through Thursday. We'd
29:04 still be filled down there first and then when that's full, it was full this morning for instance. Um then it would
29:12 be parking garage here. But any garage, I assume this one would be capped at no higher than city hall because that would
29:19 just that would look pretty weird to have a sixtory parking garage towering stories over city hall.
29:25 So for this one, we didn't put a height as much as a number of spots. We put a minimum number of spots. Yeah.
29:32 But as far as as far as seventh goes, um the rendering that's the you know the spec rendering we already have now. Um I
29:41 think that's five stories total or a net of four a net of four extra stories because we're losing the you're using utilizing one. So, I would think that
29:50 would be that said, I wouldn't want 10 stories there either. Could cast a shadow over half, you know, half downtown. But I I do shame.
30:00 Yeah, exactly. Could be a good thing. Maybe the best way to be to go around.
30:04 Yeah, but five because seventh is set down from uh streets above it, we could we could go higher without the perception
30:12 of it being such a large garage except on on Minol. So what would be your recommendation that we'll go around and get everybody's
30:19 I would say minimum at least 450 or more.
30:24 Yeah for the another 10 feet or so is not going to bother me one way or the other. I mean
30:32 like you say 10 stories might look a little silly but if and be underutilized for most of the time. You know, that's because like it
30:41 depends on what you measure because I I would still like to see shade cloth on the top. Yeah.
30:46 And that's going to add feet. But you're saying at least 450.
30:53 Yeah. At least we we need to build a little for the future.
30:56 Yeah. That's I'd say minimum three stories. Okay.
31:03 I think that's what the original question was. Stories.
31:05 Do we have an idea of what a typical holds is it 100 varies according to the site okay and we don't have an idea about
31:13 this site no they may so we'll put minimum three stories come up
31:20 let me also think in terms of stories uh I'm actually noble of you Mr. because I
31:27 think I don't mind a large structure even taller than city hall on this side just because I'm not going to see it if
31:34 I'm walking down for the most part even though there's a slope there's a large building to cover it so minimum
31:42 again we're talking about minimums right minimum three but realistically higher um on I do have a concern about
31:50 the hide more hide more cars I already expressed my views regarding at last meeting. I don't want to repeat it myself, but I would say yeah, I'm actually I switch maximum three stories.
32:01 Okay.
32:01 I cannot give you three.
32:04 How did you I feel minimum of 450. Minimum four to five stories. I don't want 10 stories like said, but it needs to be four or
32:13 five to maximize number of And you guys didn't set a story. So, no, you just said four minimum 450.
32:20 I'm just looking at the net gain from from what we were building. site that already has a parking lot in both locations. So when you say four stories,
32:29 you mean a net of three, whatever those and like you said, it's sight specific. Yeah. This site can go I think further back. This site can probably go higher.
32:37 Yeah.
32:38 So it's and it's so works out for you guys.
32:41 Yeah. To me I I have trouble parking now and when they develop the Hanks property and the Doya property and the new
32:49 project Patrick's doing, you know, where are those people going to go? How do you feel?
32:57 I'm torn on this one more because I I'm in agreement on the maximum height
33:06 of, you know, three three and a half stories because you're putting this garage right in the core of our historic district. Yeah.
33:14 Yeah. That is up to it. And you know, you think of the art wall coming through and those views of being able to look down to the lake.
33:23 So I just not to interrupt you, but the the views that we're talking about this seventh street blocking. What views are
33:31 we talking about? Because you walk you can walk along Min or Mantros and you don't see the lake at all. You can see the lake ironically from the parking lot
33:39 and you can see it through the trees and then when something gets built on the other side in the Hoya property that will completely block the lake from
33:48 ground level and two or three stories above that because that's going to go high too. There's no doubt about it.
33:52 Whatever is developed there will be high.
33:55 Devil's advocate. I think we're just as like current state right. We're not because we don't know what will be built exactly.
34:03 Sure. It's it's I challenge anyone to find a view on mantros of the lake. It says drum set.
34:09 Yeah. Unless there's a site somewhere where you set a plaque and say city manager's office.
34:13 Yeah. Exactly. So that's that's my point is that we're worried about protecting possibly a view that doesn't exist. And what and if anything again now I'm going to interrupt you as
34:22 everyone else on the table here was kind enough to allow you to speak and we're all giving our opinion. So can I finish giving my opinion?
34:30 Yes, please.
34:31 Okay. So again, I am torn because of height in the core of downtown. You have all these historic buildings that are one to two stories.
34:41 It just seems like it would be so intrusive to have this monstrous thing dead center there. And so that's why I
34:49 feel that three, three and a half stories, maximize the parking based on that height full lot use.
34:58 That's kind of where I'm at with with that site. So I just want to make clarify we've got your minimum three or
35:06 kind of almost a maximum of three stores.
35:08 Same with you your max three to three and a half stories. Yes.
35:13 Yeah. I would be unfortunately on the other side where I would say 450.
35:19 That's really what I want to hit. Um and in that case we would have four to three. The recommendation would be
35:25 maximum number of spots up to uh you were the only one who mentioned the top like no more than five students.
35:36 Yeah. You guys were more concerned about numbers.
35:38 Yeah. Well, I think code would probably prohibit anything more than five right now.
35:44 Isn't this a building that is going to be built by the city though have to adhere to that map? Can they do like a variance request?
35:52 Yeah, sure.
35:56 There seems to be a the current limitations. Okay.
36:01 So, and that is written uh that's written in the code.
36:06 Yeah. It's so many feet the code's about to be updated and everything but right now that's
36:12 I thought it more like oral tradition. But it's good to hear that it's actually
36:19 the the upcoming code is likely to be relating to uh to a number of stories as
36:27 opposed to which makes that it doesn't don't worry about feed is so
36:37 much more it's not here yet. We have it's not here yet. it's not adopted and it really you know need to be
36:45 so need to switch over. So maximum height it feels like we're very it's it's a very divided but it is slightly in favor of 450 not to go.
36:58 Um, I had a question about when you say footprint.
37:02 So, to me it seems like what we we can only do one footprint, right? So, can I get some background information on what you mean or maybe from them?
37:12 Since they're here, we can start having the dialogue with them and they can ask questions.
37:17 Yeah, please. So, why don't we just do not be afraid to interrupt and ask questions if we're getting way off course.
37:22 Right. So, what I'd like to be able to do is um do you do you want to start off Chip introducing yourselves?
37:46 John is the deputy project.
38:08 Okay. Uh would you like us to introduce everybody for you or how do you want to This is intended to give you guys the
38:17 information you need at this point to get get moving and get the feedback you need.
38:23 Fantastic.
38:30 I'll steer most of this a couple things here and there.
38:38 Yeah, I'm Rock Roco Justphano. Uh, I am the franchisee with two Chick-fil-As in Clermont.
38:47 Hi, my name is Juliana Green and I'm a small business owner currently owning four stores located downtown Clermont.
38:56 Uh, Evan Fraso, uh, just downtown resident.
39:01 Uh, Bill DS, I own Sunree Brewery on West Min Avenue.
39:06 Keith Mullins. I have a retail wine shop downtown. Jordan Gins, I own G in downtown.
39:13 And Sinclair with Strongtown Fairmont and I am a downtown resident as well.
39:21 All right, Waldo, your chance to cross exam.
39:26 I think we have already
39:38 trying to one side you want to use
39:56 when you have restaurant you
40:11 different type of Xbox and stuff like that.
40:25 Way more cheaper, you know, stuff like that. What do we hope to accomplish with that, you know?
40:43 We do have something
40:57 really important to us.
41:04 you know development of these concepts that's going to drive some of the design.
41:14 So,
41:25 you know, there's some things that some of those stuff are going to be a
41:35 little bit harder to accomplish, you know, on site number one because of the of the size of the of the of the
41:43 site. So if we could have those things like held down, it will be better for us to have that clear.
41:55 I I'm sorry to interrupt, but you said site number one and I don't think seventh and seventh.
42:02 Okay, thank you.
42:04 I think we all wonder um have they been forwarded our work on the city hall site? Yes.
42:13 So, so I think that was pretty well fleshed out. The only thing I believe Waldo had a question about was the type of retail.
42:23 And I think Evan, you mentioned the difference between retail and service.
42:31 Correct. Like service retail, which would be wine shop type service, retail, dry cleaner, not not restaurant full service type of retail.
42:42 nothing that needs a lot of inventory or warehouse space.
42:46 So, and that's for the city hall site either. Okay. Yeah. Mine was for both sites as well.
42:52 And I was thinking more like small like independent jewelry shop like just small businesses that don't require a lot of infrastructure.
43:01 Did Did somebody mention uh almost like an accountant?
43:06 Yeah. something that that would also be in that service type of retail small business type of so I think we don't want to get into the game of restaurants
43:15 and grease traps because I've gone down that rabbit hole recently in P County and um that is a very hard uh hill to
43:25 get over once you start getting into these very small as you probably know with the coffee shop
43:34 just as a reminder for you all to refresh your memories. Uh you all land on 800 square feet for this site for
43:42 each uh plus fit perfectly what what your vision smaller lower inventory
43:51 you weren't worried about deliveries. Yeah. I mean you have so many you know you got a lot of these other businesses you had
44:00 you know closer down towards um 50 where you have like there's an office building that somebody chopped up and they small offices where you've got therapists and
44:08 other type very small, you know, commercial type of service. Well, those tend to be pretty good in incubators for newer businesses,
44:17 which I think is part of what you were hoping for.
44:20 Hey, get somebody to start and then as they grow and they even along with those 800 be a lot of space.
44:28 Yeah. Does that um clear that piece up? Yes. Yes. Is 800 too much?
44:36 I was actually thinking that massively.
44:39 Oh, sorry. I meant like four or 500 because I think we again in priorities number of spaces every time we're
44:47 creating this 800 square foot space we taken away. I think maybe a little over what we need you know for that type of service.
44:56 I'm I'm thinking actually we can put 800 but they can be they can split again. So that's get that 800 plus. That's why I'm not thinking so
45:04 much on the size of the envelope if that makes sense because I can put more in there. I can have two tenants share that and and anybody who's a good landlord
45:11 is going to be able to say, "Okay, you don't need 800. Let's subdivide." Let me interrupt real quick. Generally
45:19 speaking in the industry, you're going to be looking at depths.
45:24 That's what we discussed last week was like a like a 30 to 40 foot depth. So, we were thinking like a 20 by 40 is how we got to 800.
45:32 20 to 30 would be about the tightest in depth, right?
45:36 That's why I said we were saying like 20 wide.
45:38 20 deep to 30 deep would be the the minimums.
45:42 That's why I said we said 20 wide, 40 deep. That's your 800 square feet. That's awful deep.
45:48 Yeah, that's way deep. Way too deep. So, no. I'm saying 20 deep is when you're
45:56 looking when you're planning out street or something and you're trying to say what's the what's the minimum liner.
46:02 Okay. I don't know anybody who's going less than 20 feet in depth.
46:07 Right. That's why I'm saying that's what we saying 40t deep.
46:10 And I'm saying that's that's too much. That that can be too much.
46:14 But that's that's just how we got to the 800 square ft was like the concept of 20 by 40. That's that's 20 deep is one parking spot on the perimeter.
46:24 40 deep is a parking spot in a mile. True. So I I wouldn't go deeper than 20 25. Can we go wider?
46:32 Yeah. I mean it's just how the depth of here. So you know if it's because we're going to split them, right? If it's if it's 100t deep and we
46:40 go 20 or 30 feet deep down there. We've got 3,000 square feet or 300. We just start from there. I'm not trust your math because I count.
46:49 But you're saying that you're saying that 20 foot is comp You've seen 20 foot that would be Yeah. If you get any shorter than that it becomes really
46:56 complex for anybody to make it work as an example. Oh, go ahead. Question.
47:02 Yeah. So perhaps for the whole Yeah.
47:12 First floor space.
47:15 No, no, they're talking about a actual specific operation of, you know, one unit of whatever it is.
47:23 We're not.
47:24 So that's that's why I was trying to get the conversation to what is the minimum depth. Yes.
47:29 Because that's going to impact how many parking spots you get. I would say Oh, that's correct.
47:34 So if you get 40 deep, all of a sudden you just eliminated another row of parking. And so that's why I was thinking based upon what they were saying before
47:43 that the minimum depth is where we should sort of focus on. And so 20 what's your experience Waldo and what the the minimum is?
47:52 I mean the you want to think about you know like the the column spread out the
48:00 uh you don't want to have you know column in the middle of the restaurant or you know some like really small
48:07 parking spot. We have 20 for the parking spot. We have 12s for driveway. We have another 20 for the other side of the of
48:16 the of the parking. So we have around what 60 more or less.
48:25 So, you know, if you uh we could actually count the the drop plane at the
48:33 whatever is rest for that um uh you know commercial space and then we could have
48:40 you know like just like those two faces kind of like uh looking at the at the main road having that commercial space
48:49 that will kind of like be the the the you know whatever is rest whatever is That's not the space that you know the
48:57 whoever the the owner of that of the commercial may have but you know like I think you know between 30 you know it's
49:04 kind of like maybe pushing too much because you know you may only have one side for parking spot. So if we're going
49:11 to have 450, you know, we're if we go bigger than that, if we go to 40, you know, we only have that's that dropway
49:19 space that you can you're not able to actually put a spot on one side. So that's going to reduce whole line of
49:26 parking spots. Kind of like decision that, you know, we want to make we either have more streets for the for the
49:34 commercial and have, you know, a little bit less of parking spots. And if that's okay with you, you know, that's okay.
49:41 But are we of the consensus you're kind of we would like to see some commercial along the seven street side? I think I'm assuming we're talking about
49:49 isn't necessarily something we're going to camp out on.
49:52 They will correct. They'll be able to tell us efficiency.
49:57 It's like somebody mentioned an accounting office, a hair salon. Yeah.
50:01 I'm thinking small business, not Yeah. But I feel like defer to their expertise.
50:07 That's right. Yeah, exactly. Defer to their expertise.
50:10 What they need from us is more direction is they have no clue if we're looking for two units or 10 units. So, you know,
50:18 they kind of I picture, you know, four or five units already would be very helpful to the current condition.
50:26 I'm not thinking.
50:28 Yeah. Because it looks like on Seventh Street you'd have maybe about 100 110 feet to work with. So if you did, you know, like you said, like a 20 by 20,
50:36 you get four to five units, which I think is perfect on a scaling because it's not like it's not like me as a developer. I'm
50:44 trying to maximize the space to throw as many as I can in there so I can make my performer look, you know, we need to
50:53 we're place building at this point in time, right? Yeah.
50:55 And I think most of us comfortable with them with those parameters coming up the best. Is it four? Is it five benefit?
51:03 Great. You know, we don't want one.
51:08 As long as they know it's not one or it's not 10. Yeah. Yeah. It's best. What's the next question?
51:15 Yeah. I think there's something else that you guys have know about parking day. Parking.
51:23 It's like a it's like an idea that you know someone is trying to experiment with how much space an actual
51:30 parking spot you know how how many things you could uh put on one parking spot. I think the idea is, you know, like what is the the main goal, you
51:39 know, like if we want to have a little bit of commercial but still have more the main
51:46 idea is having more parking spot, we could manage that idea then provide solutions for that. If the idea is to
51:54 have more commercial on the first floor, then you know that that transition, you know, because like that that will dictate a little bit more how much we
52:02 have available for for the floor and how many floors we have to put on to actually provide the 450 or the 350 or
52:10 the three floors. So kind of like the the idea of it is not going to the nitty-gritty of how much each space is
52:17 going to be, but like the the main idea of like what is the priority I think um and I don't want to speak out
52:24 of turn. I I think for us the tension is we we want to maximize a number of space
52:31 spaces and have whatever retail that allows with the maximizing space. Yeah, that's good.
52:39 Last week we voted on priorities and number of spaces was number one and then mixed use retail was number two. Right.
52:47 And then there was a third of can't there be a benefit to the city whether it be a library.
52:54 Yeah, I would also put that kind of excuse like something else.
53:01 Yeah. Things but yeah incorporating a civic element on the north side on the I think that's what we discussed.
53:10 Correct me if I'm wrong but Waldo I think what they're saying is they want to maximize the parking but they understand the importance of a liner not killing survivor.
53:24 All right. And again, that's and site number two.
53:30 Yes. And to Anna's point, too, where you're talking about some community space. I mean, that commercial space that you skin it with on seventh could
53:37 be that community type of space as well.
53:42 Sure. I mean, it would be flexible. I would assume. just would prefer to see that to a starting distance rather than
53:49 Right. But you're going to end up with two 25 2,2500 ft of commercial space there.
53:56 So that that lends itself to a lot of flexibility. Yeah.
54:00 And I think that's what we're trying to build maximum space be with beauty and some ability to be
54:09 flexible retail or I I think the retail there is more break up the the massing of a four to five store parking garage.
54:18 Well, and to be honest, I feel and I know some of you were concerned about when people walk there. And I guess
54:26 where I've always leaned is they will walk there if the businesses are attractive enough. In other words, if
54:34 there's a draw, they will. And I kind of like the idea of pulling some of this, you know, back toward city hall. Right.
54:44 I mean be great for coffee shop like you got a capture a captive audience here in city hall to sell coffee to all day.
54:52 I'll still be devil's advocate that is a really hard sell when we are here to solve the parking problem
54:58 to be concerned about retail and and to me that the liner retail.
55:04 It would be nice if it fits in but it's there's a long way between priority one and priority two three four.
55:15 Yeah, that is fair. But I also think that in a previous meeting we agreed to have a party like no liner. That's right.
55:23 And the goal is committed to give us the council options.
55:26 Yes, that is an option.
55:29 I think we should do just do minor variations or even architectural style architectural differences and make a parking garage.
55:38 That's not really having options in my opinion. Yeah. So, I would agree with that and I think but I also feel like even if it's just
55:46 purely a parking garage, I would love to see them try to build some kind of stylistic to where it doesn't look as ugly as some marketing objects.
55:56 Oh yes. Oh yes, that is totally possible. Like we we could have you know uh we have worked with and there's actually examples of even even
56:05 um how do they call those um electrical main stations and they have complete
56:13 Teslas you know they are lift stations that that are you know they're
56:20 you know we have two CRAs and we have a we fit too that you know they they they will look at all the corners and how it
56:27 looks from from all these perspective to actually make it look like it's part of the environment that you know is
56:34 something that is not a sore in the you know in the middle of of the road or anything like that. So that is totally
56:41 possible the it's just it's just kind of like you know the the program and then you know whatever we put on the facade
56:49 and what we what we could end up you know that's something else than that and that's what we're here to to help that look
56:57 you know to to be like what the city is and you know be part of the of the city too. Okay.
57:07 I I feel and please correct me if you feel like we haven't I think with the notes that we've sent them and these
57:14 clarifications were pretty good on site two.
57:19 Site two seems to be a much easier test than Yes.
57:26 So now moving back to SE the site number one which is Seventh Street. Um
57:35 I I do feel like the maximum number of spaces was still number one to all of us
57:44 even if it was a little bit narrower than the city hall site. Is is that fair to say?
57:52 Quite narrow.
57:53 There were other So it was it was a much closer vote.
57:56 So it was four to three where four of us said we want at least this many and we
58:04 would go maybe as high as five, but I think the the closest I don't think there's anything we have to worry about. It's up to the city council to
58:11 decide that. But the closest I think was drive driven by if you you don't want to if a parking garage is out of sight,
58:18 it's out of mind and they don't you're not worried about if it's behind city hall. It could be as ugly and and and weird as you want. If it's downtown then
58:27 I'm not even hung up on I haven't I've seen some concept drawings of quote unquote beautiful garages should not be
58:36 we at least in my opinion limited to because it's in people's sight then that limits everything else you can do and
58:44 but I think for you useful is number of number of spots yes and if you if you line it with if you line it with retail
58:52 and you lose a few spots up that's fine with me agreed we want is to go even higher and then that that throws it back to the people who don't want it high.
59:00 They want it, you know, no more than three stories or so. And so there's a there's a give and take here between beauty, but it's not I just don't want to get
59:08 too hung up on the, you know, beauty and function. I think funk should be
59:14 and as as far as beauty goes, if it's too beautiful, the visitors won't be able to find it.
59:23 No, when when we redid downtown, when we redid downtown, what 15 years ago, we put in all sorts of bike racks
59:32 and they were so pretty, the bicyclists didn't know they were bike racks. So, they chained their bicycles to the light
59:38 post and the bushes and the bike racks because they were not they were too artistic, they were
59:46 and they didn't say bicycle rack so they went unused. So the same thing when you're visiting Clermont,
59:53 you're looking for a parking structure and if you see this beautiful glass sculpture, you're just going to keep
1:00:00 going. So I think it has it has to be attractive, but it has to be recognizable as this is where you can park your car.
1:00:11 In my mind, yeah, signage signage is going to help a lot with that, too. you know, if you have the signage around, you know, where
1:00:18 the main roads are going and where the direction of the parking spots, you know, like you're that's that's not a big problem, I'll say.
1:00:27 Yeah, we haven't talked about this as a group yet, but to me critical is light, especially at night for safety. Yeah.
1:00:34 And two is um currently a mural should be considered when is not the main entrance
1:00:43 site. So, the site of the building having a beautiful mural um would make it attractive when we do the
1:00:50 presentation. Number three, not discarding what you suggested last meeting, which is to have like a a a
1:00:57 balcony where you know you have a view of parades and things where people can stand and be part of what's happening on
1:01:05 the street. It wouldn't take much of square footage to make a a what do you call you know all of a sudden it makes
1:01:13 their job a lot easier if we can present something that is beautiful especially because of the site where is that
1:01:21 but but what I definitely hear is for one of the concepts we want the functionality of the phone that's best
1:01:29 and then we want the ability to put skin around it that looks whatever interesting pretty
1:01:36 something about but the number one goal for one of them strict how many spots can you get there
1:01:45 is that fair well for that one even it would be the most cost affordable and basic garage
1:01:54 putting a mural to the side of it that's three grand four grand five grand whatever it is is not that much so I
1:02:00 think we don't let's not be naive to present to the basic design something that is beautiful.
1:02:09 So the first design would be functionality with an element with the nonr
1:02:16 and it's like if if you do smooth concrete you can paint murals. Yes.
1:02:20 If you do stone and fancy it's pretty but not so much you can't you can't paint.
1:02:28 Yes. I mean, if you go tell you go four stories, you know, on on site one facing Minnola, you could just huge Clermont
1:02:37 across the top of the garage. So when you're out on the lake, you know, you kind of can see it because it's going to be you'll be able to see it from the lake when you get that high.
1:02:44 Sell the steak, not sell the sizzle, not the steak. Make your job easier.
1:02:49 So what do you need? What do you want them to tell you? Well, we'll come at you.
1:02:54 Sping the the statics of it. There's something, you know, like because the beauty from the height of the beholder.
1:03:00 Like there is, you know, I I don't like to speak about, you know, what my style is or, you know, if I'm going to put like a something I I I I don't have that
1:03:09 big of an ego as an architect. So, the we we we try to to do something that is going to blend in that is going to, you
1:03:16 know, what the clients want and and what is more important to to the city. So, um that we we could talk about that later.
1:03:23 But um the other thing is like on site number two I think there is um at one point something about like more uh
1:03:32 program things for like library and uh things like that. Do we want to talk a little bit more about that? And then on the other thing is like on site number
1:03:41 one on seventh street. Um, is is that you guys want to have that
1:03:50 first floor of commercial space on the on those two faces of on the street level or that's only for the the city hall site.
1:04:04 Once again, I got you. So, we're going back to city hall which I think I I thought we were I thought we were good with done. Yeah. So, what on site number two.
1:04:14 We would love to see a one of them be a retail or something like a library, a park. Yeah.
1:04:22 But we're very open to whatever you guys feel would be the best use. That's on site, too. Okay.
1:04:30 That would be just on the west side of the building.
1:04:32 Yeah. And that would be on the west side of We're not doing anything on the north side of the So, I'm not good with That would be the south side. That's north. Dotto is south.
1:04:43 Dotto. I'm not talking about the I'm talking about the area that is touching the green part. Okay. That is north.
1:04:51 That is north. Okay. So, we're just leaving naked parking garage there. We're talking city hall. Yes.
1:04:57 So, you know, as you come in here on seventh, you would then make that left.
1:05:02 You would still have that handicap parking and EV parking that's currently there. Now, those wouldn't get touched. That would still be your
1:05:10 in to access the garage and you probably still access the garage or leave or access the garage on the as well.
1:05:19 Okay.
1:05:19 So, the beast would be on west side if you can make that very pretty that would be great.
1:05:26 The DPZ plan that was submitted to them. Yeah.
1:05:31 Had a separate building commercial. Well, no, actually it was residential.
1:05:36 Okay. It was residential overlooking park right here. So if we went out this door right here to the left, they put that there. They put a pavilion where
1:05:44 the band could play this way so that you could use the steps here as opposed we were going to put the stage here originally and then have people looking up at the stage.
1:05:56 I'm just saying.
1:06:01 Okay. So, so in my notes that you only have the city hall and flexible spaces as part of like the the the community um
1:06:12 of priority number two, you know, like for providing more more commercial on the first floor and then the other the other was on the on the side number one
1:06:20 by seven street. Uh will will we want to have the same thing for for that too having commercial spaces on on the first
1:06:29 floor? I I I don't want to misspeak. I know we have to come back to you two. My understanding of site one which is set
1:06:36 up is that we want one that is total parking without retail.
1:06:47 I think that was made in a way where we could put non-intrusive art on the building, right? Yes.
1:06:54 Yes. We still care about the skin and how to we include it into the but we wanted at least one concept that was
1:07:03 aimed at maximizing number of spaces right and then I think we'll be bogged down and and let's go back because I because
1:07:11 we didn't get to you guys your show right yeah I think with uh site one in
1:07:19 particular it' be really nice to have really wide angles for entry and departure because of how many pedestrians are walking past it uh to
1:07:28 give better sight lines for the cars entering exiting. I think that's a key feature that it should have. It shouldn't that wouldn't take up any
1:07:36 parking spots or reduce any amount of usage of the parking garage at award.
1:07:47 Yeah. When you're exiting the gonna have these wide angles to see people coming. Yeah. So that you're not creeping.
1:07:54 past the column and then you're then you're already halfway into the path which happens there's a garage park
1:08:05 right I'm sorry I'm not sure this Have you ever been to a parking garage and you see a spot and you realize there's a
1:08:13 F350 8 foot pickup truck taking two spots do we need to set aside a large vehicle
1:08:22 section Or do we need to prohibit large vehicles people and maximize passenger cars?
1:08:28 In my opinion, people in the park where there's an open spot. They're not going to care whether it or not. That's just me.
1:08:34 That's a bad question. I think a little bit beyond our scope because some ramps have compact, right?
1:08:42 Yeah.
1:08:43 You know how many times I see park?
1:08:48 I think we need to make sure they made a note of Jordan's request. It's a very valid if everybody's in agreement that it should be away.
1:08:55 Did did you hear that Wald Chip?
1:08:58 And you do have the advantage of the trail there.
1:09:00 Yeah. About the large truck and and that is very what what are the assump walts built
1:09:07 into the size of the parking spaces or the variety of sizes?
1:09:12 So we have uh uh 10 if I'm not mistaken 10 by 20. We have to provide 40 of those and then the other ones could be a
1:09:21 little smaller. I think it's 18 by 9. Uh there is yeah a height restriction for
1:09:30 those two. like the majority of the the the pre-fabricated
1:09:37 uh garage parking garages, they have a double T and then they they like to have those spaced out uh you know maybe like
1:09:46 20 30 in that does depend on the manufacturer, but you only you have like more or less like seven feet from from
1:09:54 finish floor to where you're actually going to hit something. And with the with um uh curves and and and slopes and
1:10:03 all that. There's like a big bar that that we will put on. So, you know, we try to go to like 68 and you know, if
1:10:11 you have a really big SUV or something like that or, you know, you're going to hit that bar first then,
1:10:18 you know, so so a lot of people will not go inside those parking spot because they know like their car will not be able to to pass the the height of it.
1:10:27 And you know, the on regards of the how long it's going to be um you know, I I
1:10:35 don't think you know How are you going to be able to verify what type of car is getting in?
1:10:43 The other thing is it's good to have the the EV parking spots on the first floor
1:10:50 because the actually a Tesla Model 3 is kind of like 4,000 pounds. So, it's almost two tons and you
1:10:59 know like those could be really really heavy. So uh so there's some restrictions you know like there a lot of details that we could go into but you
1:11:07 know like the like someone was saying you know like that that maybe beyond the scope like you know we trying to kind of like hit the you know the the minimum uh
1:11:15 the maximums and and stuff like that but there there are ways to kind of like you know try to manage you know in between
1:11:23 heights where you put the the the the EV chargers and stuff like that. So
1:11:33 having a hard time hearing. Is he talking about small spots? No, he's talking about height.
1:11:38 Height. So, height limits. So, basically, if you have a 18 and 18 foot,
1:11:46 it would also come at a point where a fulls size truck would not be able to fit because of the height. Is that
1:11:54 any standard vehicle would fit the only issues you get into is the guys with take my F150 in lift on it with massive
1:12:02 tires. They're not going Yeah, you're right. But and also like a fulls size truck. There are fulls size
1:12:09 trucks that are 21 front 21t.
1:12:14 Yeah. So it doesn't matter if you go 20 or 18. You're sticking out.
1:12:18 Well, it's I I have a short bed, but I have a full cap. So that's gives me my extra feet. And so yeah, I'm pushing about 21 ft with the bumper on the back.
1:12:28 But as far as the the lot width and length, we have a lot of families. And when you have kids these days, you you
1:12:36 have so much double wide strollers and everything that comes with them. And I know some places I go, you know,
1:12:44 everybody has to get out of the car before I pull in the parking spot. And I've been, you know, that's Would it help you all to know the code what what our parking sizes are?
1:12:56 Yeah.
1:12:56 Well, I think the other would be helpful is when they designed the garage if we would just know if you went with a 9 foot wide spot, how many can I get? And
1:13:05 if you went with a 10 foot wide spot, how many can I get? I think that% less.
1:13:11 Well, well, not necessarily. Not necessarily because the way it lays out, you may end up with if you try to go down to nine and then you end up with seven feet
1:13:19 left, then you're not gaining anything.
1:13:22 Again, I think knowing the codes and having them say stipulate It's this wide and this wide to get this many that
1:13:30 gives us the option to look at at least three options, you know.
1:13:34 Let's look at I have it pulled up if you all want to hear it.
1:13:38 Yes. I think that the the last question that I I will have is the you know the the the 450 parking spots is kind is the
1:13:47 the minimum that we want to hit or is is the maximum or is this like I think at the beginning of the conversation we were talking about like you know trying
1:13:55 to do a little bit of this a little bit of that trying to you know not go higher than than 55 ft for the for the site
1:14:03 number two on the on the city hall. Is it morely like a hard uh number or is it
1:14:10 something that it could be, you know, it's a little bit more fluid on on what we're able to, you know, accomplish?
1:14:19 That's a tough question because on the first meeting, yes, there was a vote to do 450 spots. Realistically though, that
1:14:27 is five stories and already more than $12 million. I know that we're not considering cost, but we are
1:14:35 the design should be viable. I think it should be it should be fluid because right now we're shooting in the dark. We
1:14:43 don't know the size the the the size of the site to know what would it take for the 450 to fit.
1:14:49 You can place a contingency. So like 10% fewer 10% more based on the sizing.
1:14:55 So uh if you want to go that route. I mean, I think we want to stay under the current code of 55.
1:15:03 Yes.
1:15:04 I would say you would make a lot easier without set up those ceilings. That's make a recommendation. Yes.
1:15:11 There's no I think you're not going to get hired at 55T behind city hall because it'll be higher than city hall unless they're unless they're okay with
1:15:19 that, which I am for too, but I don't think they will be.
1:15:22 Well, and I think right now we're we're on site one. I think they've got That's a site one. I think I I would be okay if
1:15:29 I sat on council to go higher than 55 foot. But then you said and and that's what and right now we don't want to give them
1:15:37 that structure that they're able to go higher than the current is it high is it nothing can be hired at
1:15:46 city hall or is it nothing can be higher than city hall or nothing be higher than city hall is?
1:15:51 There is nothing on the in the code that says that. It's just an opinion.
1:15:56 Oh, okay. Well, code mentions 55.
1:16:01 Okay. And that and that was based at the time when they adopted upon the city hall. For whatever it's worth, it
1:16:08 doesn't sp I thought it was four. Like it was definitely over four.
1:16:16 No, no. Site one is seventh street. S gave us that number.
1:16:20 Oh, you mean it? Just but the in that map they sent us last time based upon what you said today and I'm
1:16:28 curious if Waldo you're hearing the same thing. The minimum was a threestory garage which would have a fourth story
1:16:37 on top that you could park that's not that's open. Is that Did I hear that right?
1:16:44 That's the minimum. Are we talking about city hall?
1:16:48 We're talking about either one. Either one. That would be either one. They don't have to look at it. They don't have to look at something like we're essentially talking about four floors of
1:16:56 parking which was three covered and one uncovered.
1:16:59 The thing that the challenge is that the first priority was maximizing parking without I assume going over 55.
1:17:09 That was the first priority and the second priority was mixed use which is in conflict with the first one. On the first meeting there was a vote to make the minimum number of parking spots 450.
1:17:20 Realistically though like that number has to be fluid. So maybe the instruction should be
1:17:27 maximized number of parking spots while giving us while staying within concept like giving us three different options.
1:17:37 Naked parking garage and the rapidity was that it is that the general staying within the 55. Well, I'm staying
1:17:45 with 55. I'm just trying to 55 or 65 55 55 55.
1:17:51 But that's a I I'm getting I'm getting that's an aspiration.
1:17:56 No, that is a code. There is a code that says 55 code right now that you got to get a you have to go get a variance to get to go over.
1:18:03 That's what I've been told. I can't give you the here's my issue with it.
1:18:10 If it was just me, I was a board of and I was I want max five spots and you tell me what I can get if I get the 65
1:18:19 because in my opinion there will be other again we're looking into a crystal ball somebody is going to get a variance
1:18:29 for one of the other spots and so we're building a garage to a current code instead of saying can we push to code
1:18:39 and to me I think I I'd like to know Are you going to be the one setting the precedent?
1:18:46 Well, that's not a variance doesn't set a precedent.
1:18:50 We're just we're just saying that I was just trying to help the designer out to know what the minimum a variance is not it does not set a
1:18:58 precedent. That is just one variance for that particular site to begin with. So it doesn't matter if we go 65 realistically in the sense that you did
1:19:06 it. Why can't I go beyond 55 because I think the cost has just went up and I believe I believe
1:19:15 there have been variances for over 55 right for the hotel that was going to go downtown. I believe that was higher that's true.
1:19:23 Yeah. So, but the the point is is he needs to know the minimum. I did don't think I heard anybody say
1:19:31 three stories uncovered four. No one was against that. Am I correct?
1:19:39 Nobody was against but there was at least four that four.
1:19:45 That's right. I don't I don't have to worry about that.
1:19:47 Nobody was against He needs guard rails for what he's once you get to the fourth. Oh, we put another. Put another for the designer.
1:19:55 That's not a hard thing to The challenge was that on site one.
1:20:01 Thank you. On site one, the maximum it kind of flipped the maximum for me for
1:20:10 three three was three three and a half. So that was kind of whereas the rest feel much more
1:20:18 comfortable going higher. Yes. So unfortunately we can't give you like a minimum for that particular site or for
1:20:25 any site because again the priority on the board was maximized parking.
1:20:31 Yeah. And I think that there's at least there's four people that they're okay with.
1:20:36 Well, everybody was okay with 450, right? For the most part. Couldn't we just say it's up to Waldo to design a structure whether it's three stories,
1:20:44 four stories, or five stories that accommodates that basic request to maximize If he comes back with a fourtory story structure on on seventh
1:20:52 in Minola and you the four of us have voted to to go maybe higher would vote to go higher. Well, we hit the 450. We
1:21:01 don't need to go five. We don't need to go six. But if they can't do that and that's why I was asking about how many floors are there, how many parking spots
1:21:10 are there now? Because I don't think they're going to get 79.
1:21:13 All right. So 79 it's going to be at least four with a roof, right, to get to get up there. So, we're not going to have I don't think we should worry. Stay
1:21:22 under the 55 if possible, but the goal is 450, however many stories that needs to be. Obviously, we get up to more than five or six or seven.
1:21:32 Get there, but it's we get there with four to three vote because I don't think you guys were saying you were not
1:21:40 comfortable with a minimum of 450, right?
1:21:43 If I may, so each site can get three designs.
1:21:47 Yes. So, let's we'll stay on site one here. You take one design, maximize that thing to the hills with staying
1:21:55 underneath 450 or staying underneath our 55 stories. If we hit 480 spots, great.
1:22:03 We exceeded our what we needed to do.
1:22:08 Second one is that same concept again under 55 skin it with some
1:22:16 retail residential however that may work and we're less concerned about numbers.
1:22:21 Correct. We're just at height and some minimum skinning of the commercial and then concept three we get into that
1:22:29 three three and a half stories with some beautifification. Maybe it has a little bit of retail in there.
1:22:36 You know that that kind of one, two, three. I think that's what we need to figure out, right?
1:22:41 Yeah. I I think I think I'm I'm you know uh my from my notes I think you know the
1:22:48 trying to hit 450 we hit more than that is good. Uh try not to be higher than 55
1:22:55 and uh minimum and maximums is kind of like you more more fluid. But I think on those on those two things I think we we
1:23:02 should be able to you know to get something the same thing like you know the last person was saying to you know we we're going to provide those three um
1:23:10 concepts and then each one of those concepts are going to have the amount of parking spots the amount of retail and
1:23:18 commercial space and then we you guys could have a little bit more information on or want to say oh this is how how
1:23:24 it's going to look like on on 350 but because we have the the commercial space and we hit the floor of activity 5 and
1:23:34 this other one you know we were able to manage it and all that. So I think I think that's that's for me I'm good with the with with the
1:23:42 discussion already. So is there any question?
1:23:45 Is everybody in agreement with what I just comments please? I kind of wanted to flesh out more the design of site one before.
1:23:54 My question was more about the process we're going through now. Um what's the timeline on getting these concepts and
1:24:02 will we be able to iterate on them before? That's a good very good question.
1:24:11 The deadline is September. Uh Chip, could you help me here? is 20 22nd 22 September 22nd.
1:24:20 So yeah that launch for a full project but we will not get like a preliminary
1:24:27 design beforehand is the question right I I think we should be able to give you something beforehand I don't I don't
1:24:36 want to say you know if it's maybe September you know 15 or something or maybe something
1:24:45 earlier or something later you know we could we could give you we to give you as soon as we have, you know, like something I will talk to to
1:24:55 Chief and and Lenty, you know, I don't want to commit something that, you know, it's going to take a little bit more time, you know, trying to get regulations and trying to get all that
1:25:04 information on our side, but but for sure we could give you something beforehand.
1:25:10 17th to be able to discuss it before September 22nd. I think even before because they need to put it in.
1:25:17 We should have something next week to discuss whether it's just
1:25:24 it's probably not feasible with the timelines. I'm sorry. I'm having a hard time.
1:25:30 Well, the question the question that was raised, can you not show general direction or concepts next Thursday
1:25:37 without any art design which would be which is September 3rd. That was Well, yes. Next next week.
1:25:49 What what they're saying is uh just at the pure conceptual level, they want to understand where you're you know what you're doing before you get too far down
1:25:58 the line. That way we can make uh oh, if I could can I just share my screen really quick.
1:26:04 The deadline so tight with this. He was doing it while he was swinging.
1:26:11 I imagine he he would. Yes, I would say he prior to our meeting
1:26:18 even if it's the most cost effective version for us to give feedback before they get too far. Right. Right. Okay.
1:26:27 Chris, were you talking about trying to share our screen there?
1:26:31 Yeah, if if you don't mind. Um, this is I just wanted to just kind of show you guys the schedule that we had
1:26:38 anticipated for this this full project and let let you guys kind of understand where we're sitting at right now. Um, can everybody see this?
1:26:48 Yep. Yes.
1:26:50 Okay. So, we're we're in the week one of course and this is where we're actually getting, you know, having this this
1:26:58 dialogue here and then providing the the due diligence when we go on to the site.
1:27:03 Um, uh, Waldo and or myself will be out there just to try to get a a better understanding of
1:27:12 the views and everything personally. And then going into next week, you know, thinking that September 4th, I mean,
1:27:22 we're really in that initial development of those uh alternatives to, in my opinion, the earliest we could get
1:27:30 anything is on that 11th. You see the week three, September 7th through 11th.
1:27:36 Um, this is this is really an aggressive schedule to begin with. So I I really don't want to
1:27:44 press onto our team to give you something that one might not work in the end at all.
1:27:51 We want to make sure we're doing our due diligence that what we provide, even if it's conceptual,
1:27:57 has a high probability of being used in those sites.
1:28:02 So if we did it on the 11th, we would have the 11th to discuss sent back.
1:28:07 That's the day after. Yeah, that's the day after.
1:28:10 Is it possible? What they just raised would be the Is it Yeah, the ear If it's the earliest, is it possible to meet the
1:28:19 They're scheduled right now to meet on September 10th, which is two weeks from today.
1:28:25 Is it possible to give them something that they can provide you feedback on on that 10th date, not the 11th? Thank you for
1:28:34 We will definitely work on that and we'll make a note of that to to push for that and get get everything we can at that point. Yes.
1:28:43 Great. Thank you. That's wonderful.
1:28:45 If they can't, can we like put a motion to move this meeting to the 11th so we can discuss it?
1:28:54 Yeah, the 11th would be a Friday. That is fine for me if it's fine.
1:29:00 We just have to change to be fair.
1:29:05 What we can do what we can do is you know by the beginning of that week let's say
1:29:12 September 7th September 8th at the very latest early morning on the 8th we'll have an understanding of whether we can
1:29:19 get that to you by the 10th or if we can push that to the 11th.
1:29:24 Does that give you enough time to host it and change it? Yeah, if you could let me know by September 8th, no later than
1:29:32 noon, that would be super helpful. That'd be great. Just we have legal guidelines. Appreciate you.
1:29:40 So, right now, our goal will be to try to get you something on the 10th, but if not, by
1:29:48 before noon, first thing on the 8th, we'll have a we'll communicate to you whether that's a possibility or if we
1:29:56 need that full day on the 10th to actually finish up what we what we need to provide to you guys to understand and review.
1:30:03 Would it be easier if we just make a motion today to move that meeting to the 11th now?
1:30:13 question. Okay. All right. Thank you very much.
1:30:19 Which brings me to the next point is that do we have even enough to discuss without their involvement for next Thursday? So what will be our goal our
1:30:28 agenda for next Thursday? Continue brainstorming what's important to us.
1:30:32 But now they already working on something. You know it's up to them really. Do do you all
1:30:38 have a need for any feedback on any issues next Thursday at this time?
1:30:47 On my side, I think I'm good. Like I would, you know, the those questions were already uh taken care of. But and
1:30:56 chief, do you have anything?
1:31:00 Um offh hand, no. Uh we we I know we kind of preliminarily talked
1:31:08 about the the sites and the storm water and stuff like that, so I think we're pretty well squared away with what we understand there.
1:31:17 Um yeah, I I think we have a good a good direction, a good basis of champion what everybody's intentions are.
1:31:26 You brought you just mentioned storm water. Um, with this being conceptual designs, why would storm water be something that would affect your conceptual design process?
1:31:38 Do you I I mean, Chip, I think you could you could say that one.
1:31:42 Yeah. So, for the most part, um, overall, we don't really see a change in
1:31:50 what would be needed there. Um, but we would say that in site two, which is next to city hall, um, the potential of
1:32:00 additional space would require more storm water for that space. The more imperous area you put on a site, the
1:32:09 more storm water drainage you have to have.
1:32:11 We're putting a garage, we're putting a garage on a parking lot and right now we're working on conceptual and I think
1:32:18 we don't want the thought of storm water to slow your process down. is the footprint.
1:32:24 No, I I completely completely understand what that's what we're trying to get to.
1:32:29 It's just a matter of making sure our civil guy understands how big he wants to try to make this also, what space he has available. That's all.
1:32:40 Yeah. I think the if I understand the question you know like the depending on how much space available we have to you
1:32:49 know previous surface even though it was a parking lot already uh there were some trees there were some uh you know green
1:32:57 areas there that that water just drain through. Uh if we don't have that, then
1:33:04 we'll have to contemplate, you know, uh taking a little bit more of the parking spot area just to comply with that. Or
1:33:11 if we're able to do an underground, uh catch uh thing called it's not a catch basin. It's um
1:33:18 water container that that's actually already on site. That's actually already on site to begin with. We we have that city hall.
1:33:25 Understood.
1:33:26 That's good. That's good. The thing is like, you know, we get, you know, putting the the the the pilots and columns and all that, you
1:33:36 know, we may have to kind of like maybe remove that or maybe not. So, there's some things that, you know, we want to make sure that it's we're able to do it.
1:33:43 That's kind of like we, you know, she was saying to, you know, like we want to make sure that it's not half fake idea, you know, later on, oh, oops, sorry. We
1:33:52 cannot go higher than three because the weight is too much. And to be fair, um, all that comes down to is
1:34:01 any, uh, any rough order of magnitude estimate that needs to be provided that needs to be understood by the the whole
1:34:10 city, you know, understanding how much this is going to cost, taking that into account when we provide that information to them.
1:34:21 Would it be okay if I spoke about two not priorities my my bad but sure my
1:34:30 signed wishes so when you're saying site two clarify again site one I'm sorry okay I just I I thought I
1:34:39 thank you thank you uh but yeah for site one uh my main concern at that location would be safety because we have that
1:34:47 trail going along the east side of that uh parking garage so I think Jordan Bur made a really good point of having uh
1:34:55 entrance uh access points that have good visibility. I would like to make sure that we have really good lighting um
1:35:03 along the trail. If we could have a bike parking mini structure in that corner of seven,
1:35:13 that would be great with the goal of kind of enticing people, especially with those fast ebikes, to just park their car, their bikes in there because I don't want them going 50 miles an hour.
1:35:25 You can easily do 50 miles an hour even uphill and then a car comes out and then there's a kid on the on the street. So,
1:35:33 if we could do that, that would be great. Now, I'm sorry. Let me finish real quick. Yeah.
1:35:38 Uh, in terms of aesthetic, oh, I would also like to see golf cart parking. So, somewhere it's becoming a really popular
1:35:47 transportation and I think it's going to be big here. Uh, is it golf cart? Yes. Golfarts. Oh, golfart. Okay.
1:35:54 We passed a golf cart ordinance like last year. I think they're getting more and more popular. I see them and they are really neat. So, there is an ordinance already.
1:36:02 Yes. It it has a sunset call, I believe, for next year. So, in theory, they could not renew it. I don't because it's just for the
1:36:11 downtown area, northeast quadrant. Northeast. So, both sides of 50. Yes. Northwest.
1:36:20 Now, in terms of aesthetics. I'm going to be honest. I've never seen a parking garage that I like. So, my general my general um philosophy with parking
1:36:28 garage would be to just kind of hide this structure uh a little bit. So, if we could use art, I think everybody's in
1:36:36 favor of art, but it would also be nice to incorporate some uh nature into it like vines. We have those diagonal
1:36:43 parking spots and um Westminat maybe put like two more so that the
1:36:53 parking garage when you're going from the trail you don't see just the parking garage you see actually see trees and above it there's a structure uh so I
1:37:01 think that we need and I think that's it my final question
1:37:08 for the design team I understand that we haven't really spoken about cost here but if we're going to have like a custom
1:37:18 parking garage behind city hall something that is precast on vanilla that's going to have a big impact on the price and ideally would have something
1:37:26 that is more like apples to apples instead of apples to oranges so I don't know if it makes sense I know we have more space in the city hall
1:37:36 now Waldo question then based on her comment are you specking a pre-cast garage at both locations
1:37:44 no I mean right now it's mostly we haven't get to that point But that's
1:37:51 the the kind of like the the when you order something like that like that's
1:37:58 kind of like the the the the standard, you know, the there are other ways to do it. Uh you know, but like
1:38:07 kind of that's kind of like the the the the standard that we use uh for for doing parking garages. So we could we
1:38:16 could try to see something else. But I think on pricewise that's you know given that the majority of people are more used to those and
1:38:24 it's it tends to be a little bit more faster uh the installation. So at the beginning, you know, it takes a little
1:38:32 bit more of of that project management for for the contractor to do it, but it tends to go a little faster than just,
1:38:38 you know, cast in place or, you know, some some other, you know, metal pre-iner metal. So you know, there there
1:38:47 are other options, but right now we're just kind of like on the concept of it.
1:38:50 how many how many parking spots and the facade how is it going to look and the the the main program you know what we
1:38:58 want to accomplish but later on we could little you know go more in detail into those things too yeah I think the point
1:39:07 correct me is we want to keep it equitable across both sites so we don't want like cost to be the reason why they choose
1:39:15 one to the other exact way of building to be But I I assume they work.
1:39:22 So I like the concept on the bikes, but I don't have a expensive bicycle.
1:39:30 But people who have nice bicycles do not want to leave them down the street. Somebody bring one in my room.
1:39:38 They will come to the front of your store and tie it to your bushes before they'll leave it at a bike rack a half a block away. So the concept of a bike
1:39:48 lock I don't think will work with the people who have the really nice bicycle.
1:39:54 Okay. I have a really nice bicycle and you and I would because it's an ebike.
1:40:02 You're not supposed to leave an ebike in the sun to begin with and those things are going to put a little
1:40:10 too. So if I lose it, I don't think we should be making assumptions based on whether Yeah. I And I don't think that's our
1:40:19 job. Like I think Yeah, it it doesn't hurt to build in multiple practs
1:40:30 issue when you speaking down a list to the group of designers, then you're speaking for the group on things that we haven't spoken about.
1:40:37 That is true. I apologize for other things. Yeah. you know, golf cart.
1:40:42 Yeah, we did talk about price at the first meeting.
1:40:47 I think that that that's something could be taken out later, but I I get your point. Chip, do you have something to say before we leave?
1:40:55 Yeah. So, I just want to touch on, you know, you guys were talking about the the pre-cast
1:41:03 and wanting to compare apples to apples here, right? Um, in that theory, what
1:41:10 I'm hearing overall is potentially one design for each each location is pre-cast.
1:41:20 Another design is strictly parking garage, but a custom
1:41:27 piece for both locations. And then the final one would both incorporate some sort of retail or commercial spaces
1:41:36 which has to be a a more um custom design also. Is is that the right
1:41:45 the right path we're looking at right now? So you're saying just to so that you guys are always comparing that same one not just to
1:41:53 the design but per location then but if I'm hearing correctly the one with the retail component or commercial it's going to have to be custom. It
1:42:01 won't be pre-cast and therefore cost more and take longer if I'm if I'm understanding it correctly. Is that what you mean?
1:42:11 Well, I'm I'm speaking we're we're providing three concepts for each site and in the aspect of wanting to compare
1:42:19 apples to apples and choose not choosing one site over the other just because it was easier and cheaper because of that
1:42:27 pre-cast that site one that we were talking about just a minute ago.
1:42:34 What I want to verify is what what we should do is provide a concept for pre-cast in both locations.
1:42:42 Provide a custom just parking garage only for both
1:42:49 locations. And then that third one would be a custom that includes those uh commercial spaces.
1:42:59 I think what so what he's getting at is a pre-cast is only going to fit, you know, if this is my site,
1:43:06 a pre-cast is only going to fit like this.
1:43:09 If it's custom, I can maximize all of this and then some retail.
1:43:16 When you say this, it's like a certain orientation. Are you talking about just size? So, you know, if I got my
1:43:23 eight and a half by 11 sheet of paper as my site that I currently have, a pre-cast is not going to perfectly fit
1:43:31 in here. The pre-cast concept might might not totally maximize the site. It could.
1:43:38 No, no. When I talk when I talk about precast the the how precast work and they do have a
1:43:46 um they do each of the parts on a site a different site and they're going to cast it on that site but they're going to be
1:43:55 specifically for our project. So it's not something that you take out of the shelf and put it on. So it's something that you know if we have a corner here
1:44:03 they're going to do that. you know those components are going to be specifically for a specific place on the site.
1:44:09 So you're talking when I talk about you're talking cast in place then no casting place when you do cast in
1:44:16 place is on the site at the do that on the site.
1:44:21 No they would do it off but I specifically Yes. Okay.
1:44:26 So it would be able to maximize each site even as a pre-cast.
1:44:33 Yeah. pre-cast and casting place. There are two different type of how they're going to build it. One of them is going to put the the the liquid concrete on
1:44:42 the side and they're going to cast it on the site and then the pre-cast they're going to they're going to use the they're going to make those parts of the building.
1:44:50 They're going to put it on a on a big uh site outside of the city and they're going to cast it on that side. They're
1:44:58 going to make sure that the quality control is all good. And then they're going to chip all those parts like columns, floors, walls, everything.
1:45:06 They're going to chip it to size to the site. And then they're going to lift it up and they're going to put it on flakes. So that's the difference between
1:45:15 sight cast. They're going to go with the concrete liquid concrete for there and then pre-cast. They're going to do it elsewhere and then they're going to try all those parts to the site.
1:45:24 So just does that make sense?
1:45:25 Yeah. Just I I I understand the differences. Thank you. Um, but just so I'm clear for the first two options I think we're all good with, right? But
1:45:34 the third option you said to have to have the retail or the commercial component in there you mentioned about custom. Does that preclude pre-casting
1:45:43 if we're going to have retail things on on like a ground floor or whatever they come up with. You're just talking about pre-cast is only available to us as an
1:45:51 option on a straightup garage.
1:45:57 I think the what she was saying is on the on the facade like you could see the facade as a pre-cast and there's another
1:46:04 option like it could still be precast but you're going to see something else that you're going to you know we're going to be able to uh you know put some
1:46:12 whatever brick layout or something else but when he was saying you know it's not that it's going to be a different type of construction it's just kind of like
1:46:20 you should be seeing that precast as that you know some people when they think about a parking garage, they
1:46:27 think, "Oh, like those big long, you know, floors and you only see the floors in just like a raw concrete and
1:46:36 stuff like that." That is the cheapest that you could get a a parking garage, but you could actually do something else. Like if you do, you
1:46:45 could put like a metal metal vented panel, you could put, you could put something else on it. That was
1:46:52 the idea. It's not like the construction is going to be different. This is mostly like what are you going to see is going to be different.
1:46:59 Is everybody okay with those three?
1:47:02 We we just want to make sure that the highest cost is not the mixed use because that's going to throw that completely out of the picture from the
1:47:10 beginning, right? We want to make sure it's built in a way that is is not going to throw the numbers out.
1:47:18 Yeah. Yeah. I I think you know the the the what we're trying to accomplish here too is like I have you know what's the more
1:47:27 Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. What was that? Yeah. Go ahead.
1:47:34 Yeah. Yeah. The lights came turned off for a moment. So, we thought we were Oh, okay. Okay.
1:47:39 Yeah. So you know what we're trying where we going to uh on the on the cost
1:47:46 estimate we're going to verify you know what is the the the the most available product you know trying
1:47:54 to figure out you know what's the the best way to to bring it to side and all that so I I don't think at this time we should be worrying about that you know
1:48:03 we could cross that bridge whenever we see this but so with everybody have cable suggestions.
1:48:14 Is everything good? Yes, I believe so. Okay, sounds good. Any other question?
1:48:26 I do not believe we have any other questions. Okay, that's good. Thank you everyone. Thank you. Thanks, guys.
1:48:34 Thank you.
1:48:35 And did we So, are we not meeting next week because we're Thank you. You all can go. They can go. Thank you. Thanks.
1:48:43 Thank you so much for your help. Thank you guys. Thank you.
1:48:46 I think the benefits I see of us meeting next week is one, we didn't get attorney feedback. So, we would definitely would
1:48:54 expect to have attorney feedback by next Thursday, which would knock out.
1:49:00 Okay. Or just I think we got attorney feedback and the feedback is he is
1:49:08 Not sure still or or he's comfortable with the gray.
1:49:13 I would not say he's comfortable. He said he wanted to double check and then maybe we should meet just for that.
1:49:20 It's just a shorter meeting.
1:49:23 If uh CPH comes with any questions to Zay or Nathan, they could maybe present them to us. Yeah.
1:49:30 And and one thing about um I I love your idea about trees, etc.
1:49:36 For me, thing that is important just so we avoid what we've done in the past is that we partner with Main Street because
1:49:45 they have a native Y and and so I'd love to because oak trees I just removed all my oak trees because
1:49:53 we destroyed our uh all of our driveway you know so I I I'd love to involve that in what can be
1:50:01 beautiful and also can sustain without a lot of water I think they've done a lot of the work Cherry tree farms.
1:50:08 Yes. Yeah. T's a cheap.
1:50:11 There are also like smaller details that may need worked out that when they come back with the plans though, you know, like the golf cart parking which we did
1:50:19 not flesh out consensus on that. So there's certain consensuses that you all will need to come to. So be important to go over those.
1:50:26 Okay. That could be also one of those things like we were talking about. If if we do go to a 9 foot wide spot and you end up flushed out with this two or
1:50:34 three weird spots in different areas that are only six feet wide. Well,
1:50:43 like say it's laying out on paper you have left over.
1:50:50 I'm just afraid if we keep keep coming up with this new concepts, it's too late to give it to them. So today feels like
1:50:56 a a very one and only opportunity to give them what to go with until we see something on the tent.
1:51:03 And I didn't like what he he said where things can be added even after the fact.
1:51:08 So like particularly like a bike thing could be added to probably any of the sites. They don't necessarily have to
1:51:15 built in right the second because there should be enough.
1:51:20 Um all right. I think if there's nothing else, since there's so few of us, can we get rid of some of the tables so we can
1:51:28 be a little closer and hear each other better?
1:51:31 I think she wants us out, but we I'll talk with uh actually Yeah. I mean, there's there's only what,
1:51:38 eight or nine of us. If we could I think we're only missing top. No, there should be nine.
1:51:48 We started with 10 or 11.
1:51:49 We started with nine. We started with nine. It's only thought missing. Yeah.
1:51:55 It doesn't bother me to be that far from you.
1:52:00 I've been out I've been out looking at infrastructure all day. You don't want I I can get the tables uh moved in for next meeting. So there's fewer.
1:52:10 Yeah. Thank you very much. Thanks everybody.