Parking garage meeting transcript 9/10/26

0:09 Okay. All right. Well, I motion we we have this committee to order. Anybody second it? Second. Second. Third.
0:17 Third. Okay. All right. We're in session.
0:21 Why don't we start with Zay Ortel? uh reminding everybody especially since the there's two people here tonight that had
0:29 not been able to join us in previous meetings about the sunshine laws and how they work.
0:35 Yeah. So, uh a general overview of sunshine laws and we'll do sunshine and public record. So, sunshine you cannot
0:42 discuss anything related to Bishop Field with anyone else on the committee outside of Bishop Field or outside of
0:50 these committee meetings. So, uh, let's say you're at a neighborhood gathering and someone asks you, hey, what's going
0:58 on with that? And then they go tell someone else at the meeting what who is on their committee what you said about
1:05 Bishop Field. Uh, that is also a Sunshine violation. So, essentially, no communications about Bishop Field amongst members outside of these
1:14 chambers or an official meeting. Uh, additionally, everything you put in writing, uh, is subject to public
1:21 record. So, anything you don't want your mom reading, um, make sure you you're careful with what
1:29 you put in writing. Uh, do we have any questions about what that means?
1:35 Did Did you just describe it as using someone as a conduit?
1:40 Yeah, you can't. So, you can't talk to each other and you can't use someone as a conduit.
1:44 Yeah. So, that's a big uh no no. And that's how a lot of people try to get around it. Yeah.
1:49 Is uh hey, go tell go tell Paul about what I plan on doing on this.
1:55 A deliberate um it's going to depend on what it is.
2:03 Yeah.
2:04 So, uh things happen. Um, but air on the side of caution like if you know there's a really tight relationship between
2:13 some like you all live in the neighborhood. Uh, you all speak to the same people, right?
2:19 So, um, just use caution when having those conversations uh because this all
2:27 committee is all subject to the sunshine. You got it.
2:34 Okay. Next thing, why don't we just introduce ourselves since we've got two folks haven't been here before. You want to start?
2:42 Sure.
2:43 Okay. So, I'm P Vasquez. So, I play baseball at real life. So, we use the team. We're probably like the only primary high school team that uses the
2:50 field and um I'm, you know, I guess I got to drove the short straw, so I became the chairman. But, uh honestly, I
2:59 love the neighborhood. Uh and I think we can improve in the baseball field. So, you know, and we love the history behind it. So that's one thing we want to try to preserve from that.
3:08 Right. I'm Nathan Norris. I'm the director of economic development city of Claremont and the honorary city liaison along with Z.
3:21 [clears throat]
3:24 I'm David Santiago. I'm owner and uh coach of Double Play. Uh I have many teams and kids that play on that field for several years.
3:35 I work with David at the facility. I've coached here in Claremont, Roman Mola,
3:41 mascot for at least 10 to 12 years. Um, and just here to help.
3:49 I'm Brian Foreman. I'm the park and recreation director.
3:52 I'm Jacob Simpson, resident of Dotto Street. Have a background in building construction and engineering.
4:01 Um, I'm Brendan [clears throat] Curl, resident of Second Street. Uh, I teach high school, uh, here in Lake County. I
4:08 coach cross country, swimming, and track as well as triathlon here in Claremont.
4:14 Um, been coaching for almost 30 years now. So, um, not specifically baseball,
4:21 but, uh, do have an interest in seeing that the the project is done in a
4:29 beautiful manner that uh retains the historical value of it as well as makes it a place
4:37 of community use and retains the community aspect of it for the neighborhood.
4:47 William Repine 36year resident at Dotto um my
4:54 background is electrical engineering and project test engineering. Great.
5:02 And I am Zayn Ertel. I'm the development liaison for the city. So, I'm kind of the uh I do a little bit of everything.
5:13 Awesome.
5:17 So, what's next on the agenda? We're doing the meeting uh minutes from last time or we review just you just approve the meeting. Just approve. Okay.
5:24 Just going to need a motion and second and approve.
5:26 Okay. So, uh, I motion that we approve the meeting minutes from the last meeting.
5:31 Could we could we ask some questions about Sure. the minutes? Yeah.
5:34 So, in, um, the grand entrance, welcome to Bishop Field. Could someone describe what more about that?
5:44 Thank you. Oh, sorry. Thank you. Um, so basically one of the things, u, and what's the name of that one street
5:51 that's come in parallel? Is it Third Street? East. He's half.
5:56 They want to make a nice entrance just like a like a nice arch.
6:02 We also mentioned that where there is a parking uh lot right now in Rightfield.
6:07 I know you know that. So we could keep that there and then make a secondary gate that way that would be like the main the extra gate that comes in from
6:15 that way. That way the main parking is where the parking lot is right now. So that that's basically what they're saying. And they they said that that east is a main corridor. This is kind of like the beginning to downtown.
6:26 Uh, and I guess there's improvements being made with the street. So, they want just to kind of make it prominent with the signage and it would be like
6:33 we envision like rod iron. I mean, there was a mockup that was done by an architect, right? So, that was floating around, you know, rod iron. It says Claremont, you know.
6:42 Is it over East Avenue or?
6:44 Yeah. So, this is the baseball diamond, right? And then there's Dodto. This is home plate, right?
6:50 We the gate right here. So in the down the first baseline and then a similar like gate that complements it in right field.
6:58 Yeah. Okay.
6:59 Yeah. On along the fence along the fence line. Okay. So cool.
7:03 I was kind of wondering about the the idea of it being an entrance to Claremont. If you go down east street,
7:11 there is really only one road that will without great confr, you know, without going through a maze of streets. There's
7:19 Oyola. You go down east street, you want to get downtown, it's Oyola or pretty much nothing. Everything else ends at Waterfront Park or the lake.
7:30 Yeah.
7:30 Oyola, it seems more like 50 to 8 Street. That's really the and only entrance to downtown.
7:38 Yeah.
7:39 You know, to consider East Street, the entrance to downtown is a little far.
7:46 Yeah. And and I think like even the notes I think when people talk about the downtown and
7:54 stuff oftentimes, just so you know, in the discussions I have, you're talking about the historic town of Claremont, which essentially went from east all the way to 12.
8:04 So when you come to 12th, you're Oh, I'm in the downtown. You're really not in the downtown. You're just in the old old
8:11 section of town. East really reflects the edge of it. East is when it trans uh transferred to five acre rods and stuff
8:19 like that. It was essentially country and so from f from east to 12 is the [snorts] that's what people are
8:26 concerned about. Plus east is the m because of that east is the major cross from 50 as well.
8:35 And you know, if you think about like making it like having that historic yet modern, you know, with with like, you
8:43 know, rod iron, nice signage. Um, and if they're going to are they going to be graveling No, I mean, um, paving that
8:50 street or or putting circles in there because they that street needs to slow down. Like that's my biggest concern is East Avenue. Yeah, East Avenue.
8:57 To my understanding, they're going to be putting bike lanes there. They're going to be putting u street parking on the sides and they're going to be narrowing
9:06 those lanes to to slow down the slow down the hope. Yeah, that's perfect.
9:10 I believe they're going to be adding some crosswalks and things like that.
9:12 That That's perfect. Yeah, cuz I was even mentioning maybe they just upgraded the surface.
9:17 The surface of the surface isn't changing. Okay.
9:19 Where where they paint stripes and parking that'll change.
9:23 But if they need to, could could they put some like speed bumps like I have kids chasing balls all day. That that's what freaks me out sometimes when I'm like, "Hey, go get a ball." And I'm
9:32 like, and it's we're at six o'clock when it's rush hour and right, you know, and there's cars parked along that side of the street. Yeah.
9:39 Which we talk about that uh netting. We would net as much as we can along the balcons, which would uh enable more parking on the street.
9:48 And then we mentioned um down the third baseline if we would add maybe angled parking or something there where we could add even a little bit more parking
9:56 there widen room. Is that right? Yeah, in a little bit and make those.
10:00 And remember, we're talking about priorities and design elements.
10:03 Oh, yeah. That would I know we had a question about the minutes. So, I got you.
10:08 So, any any other questions about Yeah, that answers my question for that.
10:11 And then I guess so we can officially talk about the the gravel area. Yeah. A description of that.
10:16 Yeah. And um so you were there. We were discussing that was it was you mentioned that there was a little bit of flooding sometimes coming if it rains. In fact, just this last
10:25 stream, what two days ago, I guess it was, it was coming up over the curb into my front yard, into my driveway.
10:34 And as it goes down to where like I think there is or used to be some sort of filtering mechanism on abandoned Second Street.
10:45 Uhhuh.
10:45 Um, it just goes up and over. And that curb has got to be almost tw 10 in high
10:52 and it's got the cement back of my F-150 hits it if I drive down it. I know I shouldn't be there. Uh anyway, the the water comes up over that curb.
11:02 Yeah.
11:03 And cuts a furrow on Second Street. It's over. We're getting that corner collects all the water from 50 down Second.
11:14 Anything that comes off the ballpark. Anything that came was it blocks them.
11:18 What's that little street? Bloxom broom. Broom. room 52nd East Street Dodto.
11:29 It all ends up down at the corner. And so that's where the idea came from.
11:34 We were like, well, we all were in agreement. We we believed that leaving it not putting a parking lot there like like I know there was a design that on
11:42 during the council meeting, we were all like a why waste the money there? The field needs money. The stadium needs money. There's a parking lot perfectly
11:49 good if we put a in the right field. If we just put the gate there, more people will park there. And then the street parking, which if they're already
11:57 working on East Street and then if we put netting then potentially long broom, we could put more parking. But the idea was, hey, it's already rough because
12:05 people do park there and it's under shade, so you're not going to really grow grass. Just gravel, which will help with the water. And then maybe ideally,
12:13 I'm not a designer or construction, but a French I did have a house in Kentucky that had a backed up to a nursery and the water we had to put a French drain
12:20 because of the runoff kept coming. So So yeah, on [clears throat] the minutes, are there any questions about the accuracy of the minutes?
12:29 Not the content, but the accuracy.
12:30 And because we could we could we could deliberate after this.
12:33 So what we're looking for is a motion to approve the minutes.
12:37 Okay. To what does what does that mean? That means that the minutes are they captured what we talked about that that date. So
12:44 So you're just approving that that the minutes are accurate.
12:47 Yeah, they're accurate.
12:49 They're accurate. All right. A motion that that we approve the minutes. Second and a third. You guys already Okay.
12:57 So now neighborhood and Okay. So yeah, now we can discuss this further. So, so what what's the concern?
13:08 Because I hear the concern about that area with the gravel and a drain.
13:12 Honestly, it was just an idea. If if we were hearing that there was an issue, we you know, if we could address it while we're doing this rehab, you know,
13:20 what would be the concern? Just you don't want it to look like parking lot. We get we get that, right?
13:25 Um but you know, like closer to the field, closer to the field there's already it's all dusty. It's like a dust bowl.
13:34 You're talking about behind left field.
13:35 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's what Just throw I was like throw a little gravel and then where it dips if if there keeps you like that will help with water, right?
13:42 Because you're going to you know if you put a parking lot if they don't grade it, right? You're going to get more water there.
13:48 Any I think any impervious surface is going to increase the runoff and all that runoff goes straight out down into Crystal Lake which is a
13:55 springfed lake and it's the original water source for the city of Claremont.
14:00 Um the water quality on in that lake has it's deteriorated a lot just in the last seven years um that I've been there.
14:11 I don't know for a fact my neighbor on the other side who lived there for 35 years um said that it changed
14:18 drastically when they redid something on 50
14:25 whatever that is is but I I think that any additional impervious surfaces would drastically
14:33 then then we just dep prioritize. I mean that could be something where you just don't touch it and if it becomes an issue we can address it later.
14:40 I think if we really want to you know work on um you know if we add some
14:48 additional parking on Broom um if there is good street parking on east um that
14:55 area that we're talking about there that's all sandy uh that's because people just go and pull over the curb or just park there.
15:03 They park there because if there's no other parking I think if you put some gravel there that's going to continue to encourage parking there. I got you.
15:11 Um and in discussion with the neighbors there they leave a lot of trash. I mean I I not even discussion with the neighbors
15:18 but I see it and it's just disgusting trash bags, food plates, just everything. So, if we
15:26 want to beautify the whole park, if we can, um I don't know, maybe a slight
15:33 repair on the the curve there. I don't know if that's something that the city would consider as they're working on the streets there.
15:41 Um to discourage people from parking there.
15:45 Um that might I think we will have plenty of parking if um we put street parking and brightfield if we put a gate. I mean it
15:53 nobody it never sells out but I don't know maybe in the Sunday league you're gonna I mean you're gonna have to block it off
16:00 because people are going to park they're going to find shady spot it's a nice shady spot they're going to park there only on the weekends the men's league is
16:09 when they park in left field because there's no parking but if we improve the field the way we're thinking about you're going to
16:17 have people that's true you're going to have people and if we improve field and we look into later on what I mentioned the college league.
16:27 Yeah.
16:29 And the food trucks that we'll mention and the other stuff.
16:34 So the parking is if we're going to expand the right field parking that should alleviate that.
16:39 But to to discourage people from parking in that area, you're going to have to block it off. Well, one thing that uh was discussed and council member Strange
16:48 and Councilman Bane also mentioned to my recollection, they did not want to expand any park. They wanted to leave
16:54 what was green and green. So, I would also agree with that statement and that
17:01 sentiment of not expanding any parking there.
17:05 Yeah, they I not not into the grass. Yeah, that there's um
17:12 it so in right field there's a uh what do you call it? Like a railroad tie that blocks off what was the parking lot.
17:19 There's still like gravel on the other side of it. Like we were kind of joking that you could like literally move it and create more parking.
17:27 Why was that originally put there? Why it it um we're not sure. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.
17:33 It's been there for over 25 years. It's It was put in shortly. It just appeared. Yeah.
17:40 One day five years after I moved here. Yeah. It just suddenly those phone poles. Yeah.
17:46 Those phone poles wrapped around just suddenly arrived. Yeah.
17:50 Don't know where they came from. We'll put them in.
17:52 So, but they've been there for about 20 plus years.
17:55 But that's what we're discussing. We're not like the that architectural plan that was floated during the council. We don't want that. We don't want that. We don't want that.
18:02 We don't want It's too much.
18:03 It's too much. and it's beautiful out there and you're going to have to like kill trees and no, you know, um we we were just saying there's a parking lot
18:10 there. There's the extra gravel and just expand it. That should give you enough if we put the street parking in. And then everybody was like, "Hey, just
18:19 leave Fields as is." The gravel piece honestly was just an idea when we heard about the water. Hey, you can just gravel it. Maybe that'll help with the water.
18:28 How much are you considering expanding that? Uh, it was it was it it's there's a footprint there. We were just like, "Hey, just
18:35 push it over and keep the footprint that was in there." It's about 30 30 feet.
18:39 Yeah, there was already a footprint of gravel there.
18:41 So, how many parking spots would that maybe like four or five? Yeah, four, five, four, five, six.
18:47 That parking lot goes down east, right?
18:51 It's plenty. If we put the gate there, that's going to that's really what people just don't want to walk all the way around from from there. So if we put
18:58 an entrance, a gate entrance there, that's gonna encourage people to Yeah. They'll be encouraged to, oh, I got an entrance right here. I could go
19:06 ahead and park there instead of the entrance way over by home plate.
19:10 So they'll have that feel of, oh, I'm I'm in the field. I'm, you know, I could get in there.
19:14 And that's where we were discussing if we were able to do like a playground, do it in that area. Um, you know, kind of as they come in, you know, something
19:22 inviting for families. Um, picnic tables.
19:25 Oh, picnic tables. That kind. more inviting the park over there and then if they wanted to do food trucks that parking lot like maybe as
19:33 they design or they stripe it again maybe they could stripe a couple like bigger parking you know an idea that we have
19:40 what other neighborhood impacts besides the parking situation well I know that one of the residents there is a a single older lady and she's
19:50 very concerned about traffic behind her house looking directly into her bedroom and her legendaries.
19:59 Oh, in the parking lot already.
20:01 Not in the parking lot, but the green space behind the green space behind the right field area.
20:06 So, Oh, but we don't want to expand that way center.
20:09 Yeah, that we don't want to like So, it won't expand west.
20:12 Yeah, we're not. No, it's it's literally I think like the the zip the telephone pole we were saying the footprints there. I think it would start at like
20:20 the middle of that first house that's already got, you know, a privacy fence there.
20:25 So, yeah, we there's no need to go into center field. Um, she did she did mention that or one of the ladies mentioned that she didn't
20:34 want people back there partying and loud music and all that. And we understand that. We get it.
20:40 Yeah. And you keep that zip tie. You're not going to encourage people parking there.
20:44 You were just talking about Yeah. Hi, This is the lady we were just speaking
20:50 of and she was concerned that the idea of parking behind her house, food trucks behind her house,
20:57 that's a total non-starter because this is somebody's backyard.
21:02 This is that whole area. We see that as a buffer to let um you know like the
21:09 people playing the games are having a good time. You know, they're screaming and yelling and that's great. They're having fun. There's nothing wrong with
21:18 that, okay?
21:19 But there's nothing wrong with us wanting to have that buffer there to give us a little space
21:27 so that it's not right in our house. You know, it's background noise back, you
21:34 know, away. But when you pave all that and and bring in people there and food truck, it's literally 24 steps from my bedroom window.
21:43 I got I I So, we kind of decided I think we're we're all in agreement. We don't want to expand like a pavement through all center fields.
21:53 Like we don't I I don't think we need to expand that. Like I I saw that during the council meeting and I saw the the entrance to I think it
22:01 was your house you were mentioning like that was like there's no need for that.
22:06 There's no need for that. I think the right field the the current um footprint of it if we could keep that and put a
22:14 gate. The food truck was something that was brought by the city but honestly and I think we did mention this if we were
22:22 to bring like for economic development like a a college team in the summer would be great. They would want
22:30 you know a concession stand behind home plate kind of thing which there was an original footprint of a concession stand. U because they would want to sell
22:38 their own food. They would want, you know, now is that if there's original footprint there I mean I mean yeah me growing up playing little league and farm league and stuff like that.
22:47 Yeah. That's where it was there. Yeah. And I didn't know that. I mean I I'm a transplant. So um I didn't know that but they they showed it
22:54 to us. I think John brought it up so we could try to recreate that. I think that's a great idea.
23:00 Yeah. You know every few any every complex you go to has their own little Yeah. because then they can bring their, you know, go to Costco, go to St.
23:07 and you don't have to worry about the food truck. Yeah.
23:09 I mean, if there's a special occasion, you know, that the city wants to do something and bring the food trucks for one day or a weekend, they could just park that, then then we
23:18 could figure out, but the issue is with the parking, of course, that other side of the street.
23:23 Yeah, you can't park. If that if we could figure something out, broom broom. Yeah. Whatever. That would take
23:31 that would help a lot. I so let's start let's start kind of transferring into what our priorities are. I think that if
23:39 we are all in agreement that we don't want to expand the essentially we're not expanding the footprint of the parking in the outfield. We all like want to mix
23:47 that idea. We don't want to advocate for that rendering that you saw.
23:50 We don't want to advocate. We're all in agreement with that. I think that as we start going through priorities for the field, which was the goal for today, I
23:58 do think that um a the plane surface is a big thing. B the street parking and I think you guys are all in agreement. You
24:07 like the idea of the street parking like you because I I know in Kentucky the we lived in a small suburb. They redid a
24:16 beautiful downtown a lot like like Claremont. Angle parking is what they did. you know, they brought some angle parking. It slowed everybody down, so
24:24 that street slowed down because you, you know, you're going to have to back up.
24:27 Uh, and he fit more cars in there. So, I think that that would be a great idea.
24:31 Um, the street's wide enough for it. East is Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go down east.
24:36 Yeah. I think I think that that would be great. And then, but then as a result, we need to prioritize the netting because nobody's going to want to park
24:43 there, including myself, you know. Uh, I am guilty of parking in left field because I don't want my cars already got hit. I got it done, too. I already got dent.
24:51 You know, it's a little Tesla and oh my gosh, it took me a year to get it fixed.
24:55 I think there's something else like they um I'm sorry I don't remember your name.
25:00 The the idea of maybe possible college teams coming in or um this is a has been and
25:09 always probably will be a smaller park compared to the one that's at the
25:15 southwestern end I guess near off of 12th Street. There's that giant comp. I can't remember. Uh Keeler Park.
25:23 Yeah, that is a massive complex.
25:26 Massive complex with parking. Massive field. Then there's that massive new field with at least I think two diamonds
25:34 at the southeast edge of Claremont. At the south edge, southern edge of Claremont. And it's
25:42 brand new. So this this and so there are big nice this would be this would be um
25:51 think of a summer program for college baseball players. So it's not like a minor league team.
25:57 It's not like you're not I mean there's some teams that are doing this really well. Leburg is doing one and that's a good test case. They're called the Lightning.
26:05 Leburg St. Pete St. Pete uh West Orange at their high school they play it. Um yeah. Yeah. But but think these kids come.
26:13 It's only for the summer.
26:14 Yeah. It's only for the summer. It's for like a month and a half, two months.
26:18 And the community actually like sponsor them. They like like think Bull Durham.
26:22 You remember the show, you know, like like that was a minor league team. This is more like the Cape Cod League is is another famous college league. I played
26:28 college baseball. I played for for a team like this and I was hosted like so the community like we stay with the community like they do volunteer work
26:38 and then at night they play games like during the day they'll even in the summer they'll do camps to fundra a lot of these kids are from here too they're and a lot of them are they're
26:46 homegrown here especially the Leburg kids so and then they play each other right so they'll go to Leburg they'll go to St. compete. They'll go to uh West Orange has one.
26:56 So, it's a very small like kind of like a boutique type team.
27:01 It'll be no different than the main This is a weekend boutique. Yeah. Field.
27:07 Exactly. So, you're not going to You might get maybe 100 100 200 if it's sold out, right? Like Yeah. It's going to be like a high school game basically.
27:16 It's been operating Well, it was operating before I got here 36 years ago. it's been operating for, you know, and the idea of
27:24 making it better is just wonderful. I liked it the way it was when I got here.
27:28 I liked the way it was after the hurricanes, and I'm sure whatever we do now will be wonderful. I I think we're in agreement. I And this program would just give an extra bit of life.
27:38 It is.
27:38 Yeah. And which is I think is great.
27:40 Yeah. It would be like, you know, even when we were playing a lot of our night games, you know, on a big night, like a senior night, we'd have like a hundred
27:48 parents, 100, you know, it fills up and it feels up. It feels good. you know, it does.
27:52 And so I think that that's kind of what we we we could do with this summer team.
27:57 Um, how many games a week would they play? It depends on the league.
28:01 Two, three, two, but it could be away games, home games.
28:05 You could pick one, you could pick two, you could, but understand Bishop Field right now is the biggest baseball field in Claremont in Lake County.
28:13 It's being used like three times a day. It's bigger than Park Pals. Yeah, it is.
28:17 Um, dimension wise, dimension wise. Uh, let me see. Park Pals is the only baseball field around here. What's another field? It is.
28:25 The other one is a softball field. Yeah, we're not talking about complex.
28:30 Yeah, the biggest complex right now is Davenport.
28:33 They just built the one inland for the Little League, but again, that's Little League. That's Lake County.
28:38 Yeah. Bishop Field dimension wise, is the biggest baseball field. It would be if we do this right I already got
28:46 if we do this right I think that it would be a great community space and if we were to attract this is there's no
28:54 guarantee we can attract the college team although there there is a need to expand that league interest uh there's interest they want it you know
29:01 um I think it could be a really cool community thing if if if you guys are ever to look into the Leburg Lightning
29:09 it is something that they Leburg embraces and it's a really cool thing they They they have a bigger stadium.
29:15 They've been around longer and they do a lot of promotions and whatnot. And they have a horrible feel.
29:20 I know. I played there. Yeah. And uh the dugouts the dugouts I the only reason people go there is because they love the game and the seating the it's like a stadium.
29:31 The fans and stuff but for the ball players and it's the worst place to play but they still go. Wow. It's very historic.
29:40 Players. Yeah. Enjoy it. What draws people into that?
29:44 You got the way it works is you got every ball player as a kid wants to play high school ball. Most of them I
29:53 say every but they want to play high school from high school. They want to go to college and from college they want to go to the pros.
29:58 So this league is for college guys that still want to play are looking to get recruited.
30:07 former major leaguers that get released, they might be able to play in these leagues to get looked at. Another thing I was going to say, a lot of people
30:15 don't know it. There's a lot of professional baseball players in Clema.
30:20 A lot a lot. People do not know that.
30:21 But would they pick would they pick Bishop Park over some of the modern complexes?
30:27 100% because you cannot just go and play. If we if these plans are done in the field the
30:35 comp and Bishop is fixed and everything then we get hey we got a comp we want to make a league. We we want to make a team.
30:45 We want to we want to make a team and we want to put it in the league. They cannot say no.
30:50 And you get guys you know you get college ball players, former MLB players, minor leaguers that are still trying to get recruited.
30:59 Are the dimensions of the field perfect for we wouldn't have to expand the field for college? No.
31:07 No. No. And actually we we would change there was discussion of bringing back which I think would add to moving home playback.
31:14 Moving home play back 10 bigger that would make the dimensions perfect major league dimensions be 325 down the line. So so that that and plus the
31:23 closer you are to the back stop the less balls that are going into East Street.
31:26 Would you watch raised the fence back there? Is that something would do or is that I don't think there's a need.
31:33 I mean, are you guys getting baseballs in your in your yard?
31:36 You worried about then we can we can look down.
31:39 I have a baseball in my yard every week when I cut my grass.
31:44 It's already caused me over $250 worth of repairs to my lawnmower.
31:48 Well, then let's get some netting. We can get some netting and and raise it. Yeah.
31:51 And the men's league is not a metal aluminum bat. So my So there's so there's another option is and then you're you're talking about
32:00 coming out of left field like the ball's coming up the fence. So wait, I'm I'm trying to get a picture. Put a fence in.
32:05 So right.
32:06 Yeah, you only put a fence up left field.
32:09 I was going to I wasn't even going to say that. I was going to put a a second fence past past the home run. It's like a catchall.
32:17 Yeah. So the balls don't roll down the hill into your not going airborne. If balls are going in your yard, it's because one, they're
32:27 not hitting it. They're not reaching from home plate to your house. No, it's either they're um they're hitting from the outfield,
32:35 they're throwing ball, the literally the little guys are warming up and the ball's rolling down. There's no way. Yeah.
32:41 Not even Well, with the slope of everything, all they got to do is clear the fence.
32:44 I got If you put a secondary fence, that might that might alleviate the parking issue too over there.
32:53 because then they can't if there's a fence back there. Hey, we can't park the gate. So, close the gate.
32:58 If you Yeah. Right now, if this is the actual fence and you put a like he said, another fence back here, can't park.
33:04 And that's the other thing. This field's going to be And then you got really nice and and you're going to it's going to have to be secured, you know, because you don't you're not going to
33:12 want like if one of the ideas is turf, um which we're look we want organic turf, something that's not going to
33:19 cause cancer, obviously. Um but they you know when you say organic turf are we talking about organic grass or are we talking
33:27 about artificial artificial artificial organic infill? Infill. Yeah.
33:31 Instead of there's an issue with the turf it's going to send you cancer and things like that because they use certain turfs use recycled tires.
33:40 Recycled tires and they Yeah.
33:42 So at at Lake Felter Park where um installing artificial turf this fall on the multi-purpose field. There'll be organic info rather than a ground up time.
33:54 I motion we scratch that and just put that on Bishop right away and we could just dep prioritize and prior.
34:00 Um but so so I think that we're going to have to make sure we lock it down and make sure that you know or because with turf like with artificial turf you cannot use metal cleat. It'll tear it up.
34:11 And so um and even with regular rubber cleat like we're still going to have to factor in and budget for redoing home
34:18 plate the picture mount the whole players prefer there's no other choice. Oh, the
34:25 ter knows. Think of it right now. If you if you do whole grass, you're talking about home sprinkler system.
34:34 The the issue with the issue with the grass is here's here's the reality. The the budget's the budget and [snorts] in
34:42 order to m we're not going to be able to maintain it. We could tear the whole field out, start over, put a new sod, put new irrigation in, it'll look
34:50 beautiful in three years. It won't look very different than it is now.
34:53 Three years. that probably probably less than that, but I'm saying within three years it will look pretty much the same as it does now.
34:59 Yep. And then you need So that's why make some you need like right now the parks to fix a field every weekend during the week game stuff like that.
35:08 Turf you don't do nothing.
35:10 You said it for you have to maintain it but that's down the road.
35:13 Yeah. You do need to the pitcher mound's an issue around home plates an issue where it has to be but it's fixed
35:21 like a recarpet. Think of it like a carpet being restitched. Is this all funded 100% by city dollars or are there donations that Well, we can take No, it's not 100% funded by city dollars.
35:31 No, there's no there's no current funding. There is a grant application for $500,000 that's in. It's being evaluated. Um there's no formal funding currently.
35:42 You said we have an international sprinkler manufacturer in Claremont Senator 950.
35:51 But then you're adding more water to go every day from our lake which is you need water from Crystal Lake. It's already low right now.
36:01 That's what it's called. And they have to answer you.
36:05 I if everything was ideal, we would want grass.
36:09 Yeah. Well, I'm just saying if money's option is and and to regrass that would probably be like 150 grand more or you think more.
36:17 Yeah. I mean, without the sprinkler, but I'm saying like, you know, so let's say it's a quarter a million, right? But then the maintaining piece and that's
36:24 where like my biggest thing that I'm advocating safety like it right now it's a safety issue. The plane surface is a safety issue.
36:32 Yeah. Like uh John John um he's a scout.
36:35 His son just signed to to uh Jacksonville I believe or University of North Florida and he was saying that he didn't want to take ground balls. My son we were taking ground balls this summer.
36:45 He took two to the face. Right. So uh like it's they practice there every week. I mean it and it's because there's no one there to
36:53 maintain most and on the weekends like I said the high school plays how many times a week? Uh four days a week, five days a week.
37:00 Do they fix the field before the like you guys are talking?
37:04 There's Pal, there's Hancock, there's Park and there's Bishop Field like the same crew maintaining all of it. So there's not somebody that can just sit there and manicure B.
37:14 We we don't so if we request it request field they will fix and then when we're done when we're done
37:21 playing they take the field and right now there's this last spring let's just say let's last spring there was three teams using the field in
37:29 one night every night so like so it would be let's just say this was and I'm just gonna paint the picture
37:36 we would have the field 3:30 it would be done by the team by the by the city great it was done great we mess it We
37:44 don't have because of liability and whatnot the ability to fix the field like red drag it right is what they call it afterwards to prepare for the next team.
37:54 They don't have it. So then by the time they got it because they had the late shift it it was torn up. So to give you an idea the mound
38:02 you there's a hole and you can see the bock like the white piece and and people complain the city fixes it but then by the end of the night it's
38:10 gone. That's the thing. And I get that all the time. Well, and it's not their fault. It's just we can't fix it ourselves.
38:17 So, that the field is set at the start of the day, but unless you guys unless
38:25 unless you guys are going to come in and pay for somebody that's gonna that's going to maintain the fields between every game and repack the mounds, it's not going to get done.
38:35 So, we can do it, but you guys got to pay for it. So, that that is what it is.
38:39 [clears throat]
38:40 another option if we like so Leburg Leburg the city of Leburg has done a um they have they have delegated some of
38:49 that to the high school high school's kind of taking ownership of it they clean it up so u and actually we play two different high schools that play there Leburg High
38:57 is actually the one in charge so when we play uh first academy Leburg they'll be a representative from Leburg High that kind of helps like drag the field
39:06 and kind of take ownership of it no turf course none of the none of In fact, all the high schools maintain their field. They're all It's a right of passage.
39:14 Yeah. After the game, the ball players have to fix the field, rake the field, whatever. Here's the thing when you're saying it. Yeah.
39:20 Once you start playing and it rains, you're done.
39:24 Today, it's done. I had to cancel practice.
39:25 That's it. You're done. Because it rains just a little bit. Why? Because it's not maintained a certain.
39:30 But if it's But if it's artificial turf, once it stops rain, we're good.
39:34 As long as long as there's no lightning, go out and play. And they even they even sell baseballs that are not leather that we use that that that even if it's wet we could play for practice.
39:42 You use leather balls.
39:44 No, got that money. Yeah.
39:46 So my point was just if if the desire was to go real turf and finances was an issue both for the install and maintenance.
39:56 There may be opportunities with the local manufacturers that's proud to be in Claremont. I don't know what the promotion budgets look like, their philanthrop philanthropic
40:04 um legs of their company do. I don't know. But there's potential there, right? And I know you guys said that South Lake and the schools don't have a
40:12 turf management course or anything like that, but maybe I don't know, maybe uh Lake Tech does or one of the other smaller colleges around
40:21 that that they need hours or something for. I know that's extra work. Have to dig in, find details, but that's just an idea to put out there. But I get I get
40:29 all the points that you made. I just listen and and I'll tell you guys artificial turf's going to be at least a million dollars more than if we redid the field.
40:38 Yeah.
40:39 What's the ROI on that? Like how you know how I remember in the meeting they were saying that if it was grass they would have to replace it every so often.
40:48 And when it's the actual artificial turf they do it mean it's longer but they still have to replace that. Right.
40:56 depends on the wear and tear of how much 10 years. Yeah. At least most the mound, but the reason that happens is because
41:05 you got, like you said, you got somebody who sneak it with metal cleats. That's a no no. Same thing at home at home plate.
41:12 No metal cleat. That's why you can said if this is done, yeah, you're going to have someone there. It's going to be at the keeping an eye, making sure that hey, no
41:21 metal clean. You know, there's always signs every everywhere you go that there's turf, there's signs. They got no metal cleans and no uh no seeds.
41:29 No seats. Why? Because nobody goes around with a vacuum cleaner to clean, you know, but people still And the turf has, you know, like the
41:37 pebbles that he was talking about that that tire.
41:40 Yeah, the tires. Uh these this is new turf. Like when we started playing it was like carpet. Like it was horrible.
41:46 It was like this is poorest and so you know so it's it's better for the teams it's better for the field and
41:54 better long run it's going to be more economical for the city yeah because right now there's just no way um to maintain it and and they I
42:02 guess it's liability that we can't take ownership to do it is and and it will bring other opportunities like you guys are talking about with the college teams and
42:10 and other other type of stuff so it brings additional opportunities to the quality of field I Yeah, we have um major league ball players that come to
42:19 the facility and they wanted to go to Bishop. They wanted a pitch. They wanted, you know, because it's bigger and once they saw that mound, they're like, they can't do it.
42:28 Who is maintaining all of the other ballparks? It's the same. It's the same crew.
42:32 It's the same. No, it's a it's a it's a the city contracts [snorts] a crew that maintains all the athletic
42:39 fields, but is the same crew that does Bishop Field, that does West Park, that does PAL, that does Felter, that does Hancock. So
42:48 So Bishop is Bishop is Yes, they're maintained at the same level. Bishop is one field. They obviously have 15 other
42:56 fields that they have to go to. They have to mow the soccer fields and line fields and all that. So again, they're not they're going and they're going to
43:05 set that field in the morning and they're going to drag it and they're going to pack the mound and they're going to line it if there's a game and then they're going to go and they're going to take care of the next field and and that's how it's going to go all day.
43:16 And again, unless unless a using group, if there's multiple games and multiple groups, unless a group wants to pay for
43:23 the guys to stay and drag and pack the mounds between games, then yeah, like we said, by the by the third game, yeah,
43:32 the mountains, the mounds trash. Home batteries are trash.
43:37 And like I said, once it rains, that's it. And and not knocking the This is Florida. It rains
43:43 [clears throat]
43:45 the people that maintain the field. They do the basic. They'll just if there's a hole in most of the time if in the
43:52 pitching mount a hole de develops. All they do is put sand on and pack it. That's it.
43:57 And same thing with the lines. They line.
43:59 So this is what they've been doing for the last 40 50 years.
44:03 Well, no. Yeah. Because turf there was 40 years ago there was no turf.
44:06 This is what's been happening for the last 40 years. They were supposed to be clay.
44:10 I don't see what the problem and we can put a boat on it. So [snorts] forever the team that uses it would be
44:19 responsible to maintain it the moment the game is over because of liability. Anybody a lawyer in here? I mean
44:28 you know society we live in we can't do that. We can't like they cannot empower us to fix the field when we're done. Then the next team that
44:37 takes over right after us fix it after they're done. So essentially there's no way to maintain it in between games and
44:44 it wears and tears. It has to be done immediately.
44:47 You know if South Lake High School it's their field and they're the only ones playing on it and the coach says after the game
44:54 rape the field the field that's their field.
44:58 Okay. But what I'm asking is Tampa we we I mean I grew up is this an issue that came up this year or is this the same issue that's been going on for 40 years? It's been go it's
45:07 been going on since whatever the ruling changed maybe like five years ago, six years ago that that the teams can't maintain it themselves.
45:14 You know, I think in the committee meeting that we had a month and a half ago, the little league was complaining about it too. I mean, it's it's a liability issue and I get that. I mean, I I get that
45:22 you essentially took the rake away from me. I can't maintain I can't raing, you know, to maintain the field for [clears throat] us.
45:29 You Okay, so here's an idea. You know, the seventh inning stretch. How many everybody heard of the seventh inning stretch? like take me out to the ballpark, right? Do you know why they do that?
45:38 Is because they take that time to have the field crew come in and drag the field to kind of reset it to finish the game.
45:44 So that that's that the principle of that's for professional teams. That's the problem.
45:48 Exactly. And that's the whole point of Brian why we're advocating field is a professional field.
45:53 I know. But it takes the same maintenance. It it does.
45:56 When I have a kid on there and he's trying to pitch and then he twistes his ankle because the mound wasn't maintained. You just said your kid fielding.
46:03 Yeah. Hey, you got to face. I I got kids to the face.
46:06 I don't even want kids on that mound until I get it prepped. Until I schedule to get it prepped because I don't want them to get hurt.
46:12 Didn't you say something in the meeting about the type of clay? Uhlay Jeff me or you mentioned it. Yeah.
46:19 That that the it's it's clay. It's supposed to be clay, but they'll put clay on top and
46:26 then they'll put sand on it in sand because the mound is supposed to be treated a certain way. You just can't
46:34 put clay and pack it. It's supposed to have bricks.
46:38 Yeah. There's there's actual actually companies out there that they specialize in pitching mounts and they tear up the whole mound.
46:45 They put the they put the the bricks.
46:48 Yeah. So, it's supposed to have bricks and then after after a while you put clay on. You have to put clay set.
46:55 It's like putting it's like putting pavers in your house.
46:57 But honestly, it's the maintenance the deferred maintenance of not being able to maintain it every single in between each game. Not every day because they
47:06 the city's great. It's but they're not there 247, right? So, that's if I go rent out uh Lake Mella Fields,
47:14 it's controlled by Lake County. Um the Mac they're there. So yeah, the MAC so they're there. So if I have an issue with the field, they'll maintain it.
47:24 They're they're right there up in their office and they come out. Okay, I'll take care of that.
47:28 They won't even wait. And if they see anything that's not supposed to be, they shut it down. They'll go in the field
47:35 and they'll shut it down. They have a different model. I mean they have their office built into they have people walking around a little bit different things
47:43 but they do have six fields five fields they do the dimensions of those fields different than yeah that field's a lot smaller
47:50 it's the infield is the only difference is the fence is close yeah it's close is
47:58 we talk about drainage how does this how does this uh I mean it would have it would have to be redone it's it drains they have grass or turf?
48:08 Turf they put drainage under artificial there would probably have to go through St. John's and there would probably need to be a retention
48:16 pond probably in center field past the fence because they will have to address that.
48:23 Yes, it would be addressed.
48:27 Does the city have a planning engineering department?
48:30 Um, I think that's contract. It goes down to our lake.
48:38 Oh no, they put French come underneath the so that's not that's above my pay to Brian.
48:47 So again to there's part of the bas there's the basic contract that they set the fields once if the
48:56 groups want to pay the hourly rate to have the staff come back to be at the field and and maintain it between games they can.
49:06 So, if I have a game, I would probably get it prepped. But if it's just practice, I'm not going to pay for it to get prepped.
49:14 So, because it's it cost it increases my team's cost.
49:18 Next people, the next people would pay to have Yeah. So, like he would have it at 3:30, then the team in between that 5:30 would have it, and then I show up at 7:30 and
49:27 the field is And that's that's the usage right now because there's such a need. It's just going to cost them.
49:32 Well, and not only that, there's also a time I mean the timing issue. Yeah.
49:36 If it's How can this be an issue if it's been go How have we cured it for the last 30 40 years?
49:44 Well, I think that we haven't because we we I would say how long is the policy maybe been going on for like five, six
49:52 years. So, um the the fact that we're not allowed to maintain it in between
49:59 like a normal team like before it was the this there was Claremont High used to use it, right? So, they would maintain the field, right? Like their
50:08 own high school would maintain it. Um that that's just the I mean it's it's like immediately has to be addressed after every game, sometimes in the
50:15 middle of the game. So, it's just not feasible. That's why I think we're we're advocating for turf because The other
50:22 thing is that there's not that many big ballparks, so there is a big demand and baseball's really popular in this area.
50:29 So, uh, and then there's economic opportunities like the college team. The other thing is in the spring there's high schools from all over that come
50:38 down here and actually there's I don't know if you guys are aware of it, but they're I get the emails as a coach.
50:44 They they're already planning for next spring break and they come and they stay and so if we get you you All you have to
50:52 do is connect with those and we can discuss this later. They'll they'll start booking the field. Yes. At a premium, you know, and they'll play and they'll
51:00 play during the day, so it's not going to affect the local teams like we play in the afternoons and at night because it's their spring break which is different. So, um like there's opportunities for that. Right.
51:10 Right now in Davenport, they they have a juke league. That's right. In the spring. It's a Yeah, it's a junior college.
51:18 It's freezing up north. So, guess what?
51:20 Let's go to Florida all over for two or three weeks. Yeah.
51:24 At Davenport, it is packed during the day.
51:27 One game after another game after snowbirds ball, they want to come down here. Yeah.
51:34 And you know, but they can't do that at Bishop. They're not going to do that because again the fields park pals too small.
51:42 So that's why they do it in Davenport.
51:44 and Davenport right now they they're all turf and Auburnale they put their community I mean every weekend there's a there's a
51:52 baseball tournament there we're going to be there this weekend so um so the my whole point is if we turf it the use will be done it will
52:00 help alleviate the parks team which is going to be needed elsewhere right I mean it's going to make a bigger impact um but B it's going to be safe that's
52:09 the key it's going to be safe because right now it's not safe I think this is a drainage pond for a ball field of that size. Do we have those figures? Because there's not
52:17 a lot more space to work with and everything is slanted.
52:22 The slanted the Now, I'm not I'm not an engineer, but the slanted would help it.
52:27 And because it's natural drainage, but they would they would drain it into that pond. It's really a matter just how how deep and how wide they could go.
52:38 Mike's house and our house. We had videoed the last couple days of the rain and it is torrential and their driveways
52:45 are are getting washed out. So adding additional drainage, Chris and Mike's driveways are going to be gone.
52:52 I would sus I would suspect, but no, without guaranteeing anything on video, I would suspect that a retention pond
53:01 could help that part of the that would catch everything that's actually coming from the That's ending up.
53:09 Is it a field? Is there a drainage now in the field under the field?
53:15 To be to be honest though, most all of that drainage comes down imperous surfaces. It doesn't really pour off of
53:24 the the sand because I mean it's Florida sugar sand out there. So, it sucks the water like a sponge.
53:34 and and but and the and I'm not an expert in turf construction, but it's like layers of sand underneath it like and there's drainage and it and it acts a lot like I said it acts like real
53:43 grass. That's why it has these pebbles that that would be like ideal if it helped the water drainage situation instead of having
53:51 it's not going to it gets designed it gets it's not going to add it will get designed to drainage is part of the design.
53:59 Yeah, I have just a few questions as I've been absorbing all of this and Nathan maybe you can um
54:07 shed some light to help me understand some things. Um I'm just I'm looking at the email that has the our what we're
54:15 tasked with as a committee. Um one of the things on here was uh number four increase Major League Baseball grant
54:23 opportunities. Um am am I understanding right that if if we're able to
54:31 bring it to bring the field to a level that would interest in college teams.
54:36 Does that play into that or No, that was referencing restoring the field to it historic significance. So it
54:44 says uh be designed in a way that preserves the historic value of Claremont, support the use by Claremont residents, maintain the field as a
54:52 baseball field without adding extensive parking or other uses to the site, and increase major league baseball grant opportunities, and consider the
55:01 infrastructure needs associated with the site's gateway location. Um I obviously city is going to be working
55:11 the budget and and all of that. I'm just curious how our recommendations will play to, you know, do we have a
55:20 comparison of what the the long range 20-year uh financial
55:28 commitment would be for both of these and what additional uh what do you mean by both of these?
55:36 Either turf or grass. Um because if you get grass obviously there's a lot more maintenance in that to to keep that
55:44 going resolding fertilizer time can't play on the field.
55:48 Yeah. You're talking about on a field to maintain to maintain a field bishop field of that size at a stature we would
55:58 want if we were going to do it right like you're talking about4 to $50,000 a year of maintenance on the
56:06 field which isn't happening right now. I can tell you that this contract's nowhere near that amount [clears throat] to support that for one year. But to do
56:14 that field to that level, you're talking 40 $50,000 a year versus 1.5 million for
56:22 artificial turf for 10 years, 10 to 12 years. And then but then you're also talking about the other factors of
56:28 quality of play um not having any shutdown times being able to play right after it rains being able to have games from 8 in the morning till 9 at night.
56:40 What are the additional costs associated with the retention pond that would be
56:47 that would be I should and I and I want to take the retention pond back a little bit. I want to because I can't guarantee that. I'm not an engineer at that level
56:55 to know, but there is a drainage plan that goes with the artificial turf. I'm thinking of the Felter Park um
57:02 artificial turf that's going in now and they're draining into the existing retention pond and that's where the retention pond came to my mind. I can't tell you that there will definitely be a
57:11 retention pond. I can tell you there will be a drainage plan, but it'll be part of the install. So when I say ballpark figure of 1.5 million, it it's
57:20 all in because if if it if that plan ends up going into the Crystal Lake, that definitely goes to St. John's.
57:29 Yeah. And I don't know. I don't Does that require additional approvals?
57:33 St. I'm sure St. John should be I'm sure St. John would be part of the approval process when you go through through the permitting to put in an artificial turf
57:42 field like that. It usually goes through St. John's. Brian, let me ask you in relation to the artificial turf and
57:49 versus grass conversation, do you know what we spend on water for grass over there every year?
57:57 I I I don't know. Okay. Public public service handles the irrigation. Okay.
58:03 So, I mean, obviously turf would be preferable. I'm just curious. And what I think the ROI is there. It's I I was a
58:12 turf skeptic for years, but just seeing, you know, um so I if we could, you know, because there there was there used to be
58:20 injuries with the old turf. I mean, it was horrible.
58:22 Uh I mean, it was horrible. Uh so I actually decided to go to a different college that had natural turf because of
58:29 that, you know, because the old turf was like there was an injury. So it's a lot more
58:37 natural. Um, but I do think that the ROI is there like where the maintenance cost plus the other thing you're not is is um
58:45 is the fact that you're going to have to reg grass or re turf it every four or five years, you know, resaw it um and
58:54 then water and whatnot. So, so I think that's what we I would want to advocate for. Um, what's it going to cost the city in
59:01 another 10 years? Like what what's whatever the market I don't know what inflation's going to be, you know, is it get in place. You're right. Well, million or is it less than that?
59:12 It it wouldn't be because if you're replacing the turf, the infrastructure is already there. So, you're just repl
59:19 maintenance if any if any home plate maybe home plate and that's like every two or three years. It's a strip. Yeah, it's a strip.
59:27 And yeah, to beat a dead horse, I have been here for 36 years.
59:32 They have not, to my acknowledge, receded, much less resided that field since I've lived here.
59:40 They see and it looks almost as nice as my yard, which gets tender loving care. Well, the front yard does.
59:46 Backyard, I'll let go by itself. The backyard looks, which I leave just alone, no fertilizer, no sprinklers.
59:53 Looks just as good as that park does.
59:55 And to my knowledge, and I used to walk my dog there twice a day, it's never been seated. It's never been sold.
1:00:05 It's uh in 36 years.
1:00:06 I know. But we're discussing to the infield is the biggest priority. In fact, we were discussing this before as far as just like before this project
1:00:15 kicks off, can we, you know, hopefully they resold a little bit, but they resaw periodically. They're resing all the time.
1:00:21 Yes. I mean, they they've they've maintained it. Yeah, they're maintaining it. Well, it's never been cut.
1:00:28 I've never seen it torn up. I've never seen anything lifted up.
1:00:32 Let's do some homework tonight. When you drive by the field, what's that?
1:00:35 Let's do some homework tonight. When you drive by the field, I want you to kind of eye on the the pitcher mount.
1:00:41 There's a white block. You're going to see the white block like this.
1:00:45 That's not supposed to be exposed. It's supposed to be flat and you put your foot over it. Right now, it's here. And literally like I've seen kids like we
1:00:54 had a kid that that broke his ankle because of that because you can rip it out if you can rip it out.
1:00:58 You can take it out, you know. So it's supposed to be buried under it. It's exposed.
1:01:01 The turf is just the infield, not the outfield.
1:01:04 All of it. It's all of it. There is the there is all the way to the fence.
1:01:08 All the way to the fence. There is a a study an option to just do the infield, but then you get kids that will want to wear the metal and then you got to
1:01:16 police that. And if we're going to do it, let's just do it right. Let's break, you know, because if you play in the outfield, you prefer to use Yeah, cuz turfs are like almost like
1:01:24 running shoes basically, like Yeah. So, um, so yeah, I think we're going to do it. Let's do it right. Let's turf it.
1:01:32 Um, but back to the priorities, the other idea, and I think, and this I would love to take of of the neighborhood. Um, we were all kind of in
1:01:41 in agreement that the shell, keep the shell and just re, you know, redo renovate the inside of it, right?
1:01:49 Instead of like we had seen some renders where they were just going to knock it all down and try to redo the stadium. I like the idea of the historic if we can.
1:01:57 There's two locker rooms there which would help. Uh, like we have teams that come from like two hours away to play us in our high school. It's nice that they can have a visiting locker room which is
1:02:05 in there is a footprint there that's all underneath underneath it's in the footprint so it's just redoing the grandstand and the the idea that was thrown out there is in the
1:02:13 minutes um was um we would put chair backs in the front okay and then the the upper part would just be stadium it's a
1:02:21 lot like like the one in Leburg's like that and um and then the concession stand right but as far as like
1:02:28 priorities because that we do need to start getting along with this meeting as far as like the priorities is the surface has to be the number one thing that that that has I mean it's an injury
1:02:37 thing and and it's a wear and tear. We have so many teams playing on it right now.
1:02:41 We're operating on it. We do prefer turf, but we're not we're not going to be like Yeah. So, if we can if we I would say if we list the surface first,
1:02:51 then the the the the biggest concern I think kicked off this was um the grand stand. I mean, there's they literally like blocked it off. I don't know if you guys seen it.
1:03:03 dangerous.
1:03:03 It's dangerous. Yeah. And so you you can have a nice ball field, but if you don't got a grand standard locker and bathrooms that are clean, that's true.
1:03:12 So surface first, grandstand second, and then and then the the pearls, I guess the the So your dugouts and your your bolts and stuff, would you do that next?
1:03:22 Yes, that's part of that's part of the grand stand.
1:03:25 I think that's part of Or you could actually put that fieldwise also. Yeah.
1:03:29 Okay. So that's included. Yeah, I think you would put that in the fieldwise because you could do that and that's the other the use case,
1:03:37 right? Like so timing wise, right? If we get this green lit and funded like the hope would be maybe to start at the end of the high school season next spring
1:03:46 because in the summer it's kind of like where it's dead unless we attract a college team.
1:03:50 So let's say we spend that summer to upgrade the field first and then you know you could still play while you're doing the stadium, right? You just
1:03:58 blocked it off. Don't let anybody, you know, don't let anybody sit there. They can sit in right field, right? Like, you know, in the meantime, right? They get
1:04:05 their long chairs over there. So, um question, Nathan, I don't know if uh
1:04:13 Oh, James May. Um would the additional parking on Broom,
1:04:20 would that end up falling under project, one of our priorities, or could that be kind of handed off to his department? I
1:04:28 don't I don't think that I don't think I don't think we want to talk about parking and and I mean other than other
1:04:36 than what's in right field and when we talk about in right field east street and broom and all that that touches a different project that's different I think we just want to stay
1:04:45 that question that's not one of our priorities but the biggest thing is that we can address on the field is the netting because we do the netting more people will park on the street on on east
1:04:54 street that already has parking designated so so what would be our third priority then Would it would it be the locker rooms and concessions or
1:05:02 Yeah, the concession stand that would be built.
1:05:04 Excuse me. Yeah, Nathan. The reason I said that is because I'm thinking that that's two different two completely different funding sources
1:05:12 that I would think that any parking on Broom or East Street or anything that's that's part of a streets plan versus
1:05:19 versus whatever this is as part of a park. Well, just so you know, since you weren't able to be there, the the deal
1:05:26 was on the on Broom. Right now, you have a bunch of signs say no parking anywhere.
1:05:32 Okay. Yet, it's a natural place for one people wanting to park on one side of the street. I'm always scared to tell me.
1:05:40 Right. Right. And so, um, so the idea is to take advantage of that so that there wasn't a need to find parking elsewhere was to put it on the street.
1:05:49 I think that's a great idea. slows the cars down going in the street for whatever and that's just and that's just an adjustment of whether we allow parking there or not. That's not the sign.
1:06:00 It's not substantial in ter the the priorities really had to do with it's going to cost a heck of a lot to do
1:06:08 right and so that's that and then we have the other components of of the baseball operation. Okay. What goes
1:06:16 beyond that are things like when you're talking playground. Yeah. Over in right field.
1:06:25 Um to put a um some sort of additional structure or something that sort of uh you immediately your eyes are drawn to
1:06:33 it as you come up off 50 on east. You say, "Oh, this is right now." You know, you don't really know exactly what it is.
1:06:41 You could even add what we spoke about bleachers behind first base down the line. Yeah. behind third base down the line.
1:06:49 Yeah.
1:06:50 Regular netting netting. Exactly. So, you know, everybody, you don't have to have everybody.
1:06:57 And that's a great point. We that that could be a third party like just temporary bleachers that could be, you know, if they ever needed to get rid of them
1:07:04 while they're doing the uh maybe we bring that in while they redo that and then keep them there. And um is there a scoreboard there?
1:07:12 Well, we put that in there. That's a priority. Yeah.
1:07:15 Real quick, if you want to bring anybody And I I don't remember any scoreboard. So you guys do it like old school sign.
1:07:22 Oh, you don't you don't even want to know. We we bought one off Amazon that I bring in and out. We have a mom that does gauge.
1:07:29 So it's a scoreboard under grand stands or surface or that's part of the field.
1:07:33 That would be part of the field. That would be that would be Yeah.
1:07:36 And hey, I just want to make sure I have the correct uh priorities because So number one is turf. Correct.
1:07:44 The surface. Yes.
1:07:45 Turf surface. And then a a fast follow after that would be the dugouts and the scoreboard. So basically the the the
1:07:53 well the grandstand if we have to knock it into three phases. The grandstand would I because I would do the I would do the the dugouts with the fields.
1:08:04 Let's not we're not talking about the order that the construction takes place. Okay. Talking about what needs to happen. I got the surface has to be first.
1:08:12 Surfaces first.
1:08:13 Surfaces first. The ground. Do we agree on turf as if to be brutally honest with everybody
1:08:20 um part of this project the grandstand was the project wasn't even going to be the field was going to be like yeah we
1:08:28 might get to that but the grandstand is the thing that needs to be because it was falling apart. Yeah. So I would do the field surface because it is a priority in Miami.
1:08:37 And do we all agree as a group turf?
1:08:42 I think I mean I I'm going to I think that's what we lead with. What do you guys think? It'll make a difference. I prefer it.
1:08:50 Yes. Because it would allow you would separate Claremont from all these places. Correct. That's true. I would be able to have practice.
1:08:57 Okay. That's would my question is would the the grand stands be low hanging fruit though? Would that be something?
1:09:04 And I I don't know building stuff and you guys know baseball field stuff. So as far as a
1:09:11 timeline goes to to get these things done. Would we be able to do these things concurrently? Is the grains because I mean if you build it they will come, right?
1:09:20 I mean if we have the funding they can do it all. Depends on the construction.
1:09:24 It's going to depend on who we're working with. But one way to look at it is that the design process and the funding process is not a linear track.
1:09:33 It is a circular thing where we have to come up with what is our ideal ideal.
1:09:40 Once again, we've been hearing from the users.
1:09:42 What do they care about? They care about that field being, you know, usable by the folks that they're coaching up. Um, and so we just got to come up with the
1:09:51 ideal and then sort of and what we're supposed to be doing. is prioritizing what those things are. Even though it
1:09:59 may have started off, let's say with a need to we've got to fix the the seating, you know, we got to do that.
1:10:07 It ends up being, okay, well, actually, we need to fix some things along the way. One of which was the idea of pulling the field, you know, closer in to the grand stand.
1:10:19 Um and and so that we could have a the dimensions the major league dimensions major league dimensions 325 which I think stinks because then you
1:10:27 know if you're a young kid you didn't hit the home run got but I'm not a I'm not a voter but the
1:10:35 point the point is is that we've got to go around and sort of try our best okay what is our ideal scenario then we get the additional information that you're
1:10:44 looking for. Oh my gosh we can't find a funding source for the what are we going to do now? And maybe that we come back and say, well, we got to fix the grand stand in the near term.
1:10:54 I was just trying to get an idea of the scope of what priorities, what what are we actually looking at? So, surface then grandstands
1:11:02 Brian and Zay you were labeling all the ones. Is that right? You I have a list, but you could go.
1:11:10 Well, so those were so we I have surface um grandstand and then priority three was netting. Yeah, that was most recently discussed.
1:11:19 Expensive. Wait, the netting could be expensive.
1:11:21 And so what what I want clarification on is for the surface and turf. Yes.
1:11:26 Um is if we were to pull it back, would that all be part of the same kind of thing to make it a major league stadium?
1:11:32 So that would all be as and the pulling it back is not going to add cost. I mean, you're just reallocating the space that's there already. So
1:11:40 I figured as much. I just wanted to make sure. So we have three priorities right now. Turf is number one or the surface.
1:11:48 Uh priority two is the grand stand and does that include the historic facade?
1:11:53 I and that's something we need to discuss. I think we keep the facade.
1:11:59 I mean your construction isn't the shell.
1:12:01 Basically keep the shell and do a facade. Keep the cinder block.
1:12:05 Okay. I see what we're saying. Instead of like leveling it and rebuilding the whole structure, keep the structure, right? Change the facade. Yeah.
1:12:12 Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then there's room underneath the bleachers, right? For there's two lockers would have to Yeah, the bleachers are all going to have to be knocked out.
1:12:20 So, basically what would have to happen is it's going to get hollowed out and you'll have your U-shaped cinder block wall that's left.
1:12:26 So, and you just change up the side to pretty it up on the outside, but then rebuild this the structure underneath it.
1:12:31 Is that going to add more cost than if we leveled it and redid the whole Probably not.
1:12:36 I don't think it's not a facility that's up and running somewhere that's 30 years old. It's just a shell.
1:12:44 I don't think there's a reason to level. It's fine.
1:12:47 I I just saw because that that during that council meeting they brought like plans to level the whole thing and we're like keep the historic piece of it. You know,
1:12:55 is the concession stand going to be involved in that project or is that could be a separate building?
1:13:00 So, there's a footing where if you're looking at the shell on the left side, there's literally like a foundation where there was a small concession stand there.
1:13:09 So we discussed that were the woman's the ladies room.
1:13:14 No, no, no. It was actually on the other side on the men's side.
1:13:16 Yeah. Yeah. John John on the broom street.
1:13:20 On the broom street side. But then there was discussion about a separate bathroom on the lady's side like a separate you know so we we could figure that out. I mean there had to plan it.
1:13:29 There was even talk about bathrooms inside the locker room.
1:13:33 There is bathrooms in there. I mean, there's a bathroom for the for there's the two single ones, right? And then there is still another bathroom for the locker room.
1:13:42 So, there's room in there. I mean, I think there's space under the bleachers, too. Void that locker room.
1:13:48 Yeah, there there's locker rooms in there.
1:13:49 Right now, that's where they keep all the the maintenance. They keep this nice. It's been a while since I've been in that grand stand, but I think there
1:13:56 is space between that wall that is and the bottom of the seats where you could you there might be opportunity for more
1:14:04 space to be right now.
1:14:09 Oh, I listen I love the history of it. I think if we could put a facade that that tweaks it up, use some rod iron. Keep like the look.
1:14:18 You put a plug.
1:14:18 Um Yeah. You put a plug.
1:14:21 Yeah. Yeah. I I think that I think we're all in agreement that we want to keep the historic aspect of it. So Brian, are you what are your categories of what needs to be
1:14:30 surface, the grandstand, dugouts, netting, scoreboard, restroom, and concession, and then keeping the historic field dark, broad iron.
1:14:42 We have I think we didn't talk about the lights. you do.
1:14:44 I was just going to that was going to be part of another project, but that project got cut
1:14:51 real quick. So, just uh so we're able to um address the netting. So, I want to get into details on that a little bit.
1:14:59 Sure.
1:15:00 Where are the priorities for netting specifically?
1:15:03 I I would put the netting with the grandstand like right a fast well right after the grand stand. The grand stand has to be done.
1:15:09 Let me rephrase my question. Where for the netting is priority? So the the netting would be So the the grandstand would the back stop has to be renetted.
1:15:18 Right now it's there's literally a piece of rod iron that's about to fall a there's a there's a it's just floating there. I'm waiting for it to fall and impale somebody.
1:15:28 Right. There's a pole where it's rotted out.
1:15:31 So um that would all be the back stop would be renetted.
1:15:35 So that's the priority number one of the netting is the back stop. Okay. Now the extended netting where it can get costly as you're going down the file line.
1:15:45 That's what I'm asking. Yeah, that's a that's would be after the grand stand.
1:15:49 So would that be part of priority three or would that be I would say part of priority three after the grand stand because the grand stand is falling apart too. Fix that.
1:15:58 You guys wanted to extend the bugouts. You guys wanted to double bug out.
1:16:02 Yeah, I guess considered part of the sur. Would you include field layout with the surface?
1:16:11 I mean, yeah.
1:16:12 Yeah. I mean, if you're going to redo it, you got to redo the dugouts while you're doing the surface because if not, you're going to have a hole that you're gonna, you know, or you're going to pay for
1:16:19 I guess the I guess to me it's like the field and the dugouts are separate as far as you can do the field and not do the dugouts.
1:16:29 Yeah.
1:16:29 But if you're going to do the dugouts, you're going to do it the same times.
1:16:33 Exactly. So, that's Exactly. because you're if not you're going to either you're in a turf area that you don't need a turf because you're going to put a dugout there.
1:16:39 I don't think the dugouts are I don't think the dugouts are going to be an expense that's going to make or break the project. That would be Yeah. A few years ago you guys roofed
1:16:47 it. They didn't even have a roof on one of the dugouts. So yeah. So that that should be when you're done and this is all like
1:16:54 beautiful and new. um are you going to have a sign with like rules and regulations or are you going to who's going to teams coming in and whether
1:17:03 they're following the rules to maybe So I I think that's one thing we discussed. We discussed gating. So
1:17:10 gating the actual surface gating and that's something we need to discuss because probably a fourth priority would be like the playground
1:17:18 and that area and so do you leave it open as a park? I I say you don't. You just only have it open when when people are renting the field.
1:17:27 One of the concerns is access, right?
1:17:31 You still want residents to have access to the field.
1:17:35 So, in order to do that, you're going to have to monitor it because if you lock it up, you're just going to you're just going to upset everybody and it's not going to be.
1:17:44 The other thing is is and and want to be realistic about this is is fences keep the honest people out.
1:17:50 They do. If you're going to put barb wire on the fences, which I don't think we want to do, um that that kids are kids are going to climb the fence and go on the field regardless of We can't stop.
1:17:59 No, we can't stop.
1:18:00 Park pals. If you're on the field when you're not supposed to get Yeah. But that doesn't mean that they don't go. I mean, listen, we we
1:18:09 Hancock Park Hancock Park, the soccer fields. Yeah.
1:18:13 They get lock they get locked for a couple months over. filter filter lock that multi for them they just jump the
1:18:21 fence it's so we'll just I think I think I I agree and we do want I mean there's it's a community people come and use the batting cages
1:18:29 I think we're we're just going to have to monitor the biggest thing is the cleats that's the biggest thing because that will tear up the field so we put signage everywhere
1:18:36 maybe some cameras you know do you see park services driving once in a while but they got to ask just they got to pull a permit do it more because it's brand new facility Okay.
1:18:47 Question question on the clarification on the taxes. So, we're looking at the surfaces number one to include field layout. Two
1:18:56 grand stands to include the locker rooms and concessions or at least in set up for that for that. Yeah.
1:19:05 If they could fit it in the footprint.
1:19:06 If not, it would be a it would be a four priority. It's possible that the restroom that a restroom that's not associated with the locker room that a
1:19:15 restroom and concession stand thing is a separate a separate building. Yeah, that we could do. Okay.
1:19:20 There's plenty of room on the first side. Yeah.
1:19:22 Um and then the back stop heading right after that. Now, would you would you put fencing as a priority? And
1:19:31 if so, would you put the fencing above the sideline netting or would you think The sideline netting would be more important.
1:19:40 I think the sideline netting is more important because it'll empower people more to park. Okay.
1:19:44 It encourage Sorry, not empower. It encourage people because right now nobody wants to park along the streets because Yeah. They don't have any church. They don't want to go.
1:19:53 They don't want to. Yeah.
1:19:57 So, I heard that bathrooms and concessions are priority four. Is that accurate? Uh I I would say let's put it
1:20:07 keep it with the it's almost like a 2.5 because you're going to keep it with the stadium but if it cannot be incorporated
1:20:14 with with the actual like bleachers then if it's separate you know but honestly it would probably be the same project right because you're going to have the
1:20:22 same construction company that you hire potentially but there's going to be some some water logistics electrical logistics that are going to get costly.
1:20:30 Yeah. So, uh, it may be like push back. I got you. Yeah.
1:20:38 So, I think what we're going to do, I think, is Nathan and Zayn and I will we'll take this priority list and we'll
1:20:47 bring it to somebody who's going to plan this project. Okay.
1:20:51 And and do a rendering for us and do a cost estimate. And then when that's done, I'm not sure how long that will take. Couple days.
1:20:59 Yeah. by Monday. That'll be done by Monday. When that's done, then we'll know it's done. We'll look at it and then we'll we'll contact everybody once
1:21:07 we have that to set a to set a meeting to review everything before we then present it to council. Okay.
1:21:15 I mean, is that does that fair with everybody?
1:21:18 And this so I understand this is just our ideas. This is our ideals. What? Correct. Yeah.
1:21:24 Correct. So, we're going to get we're going to get ideals. We're going to get what you guys want. We're going to get a drawing. We're going to get a rendering for it.
1:21:32 We're going to get estimates for it.
1:21:34 We're going to bring it back to this group and review it. And then this group will go to the council and present it. Present it. Where's the scoreboard go?
1:21:42 Right. Field there was one.
1:21:44 I know. But in the priority list, oh I mean it's part of the field.
1:21:48 I think that's part of the field. I mean we need it.
1:21:51 Are you That's not expensive though. It's not.
1:21:53 mentioned this, but uh PA or music is that I bring my own PA. I bring my own PA.
1:22:00 You have to have uh you guys you guys who you guys who live near the park.
1:22:04 Oh, trust me, we don't have enough juice.
1:22:06 We don't have enough juice. Music or the PA?
1:22:09 No, I think I think that that would be the kids, which is nice.
1:22:12 This year we're bringing, you know, barbell, whatever, like cowbells.
1:22:17 We need it to like play like music. between the, you know, like see on TV.
1:22:25 We're going to do a community night and you guys are all going to be invited.
1:22:27 We'll cook out for you guys. We're gonna we'll get them really, now that I know you, we're going to get you involved this year.
1:22:33 And just because uh Jeff Deerorf did send us his priorities and I want those to be read into the record in case it informs anything. Um, clean up the shell
1:22:42 of the stadium with new wood roof, uh, new seats area for scorekeeper, the locker room, maybe make bathroom bigger underneath, only one stall on both
1:22:51 sides. A priority two, playing surface, dugouts, black or green fence around the whole field. Number three is scoreboard and flag pole. Four is netting around
1:23:00 home plate. Five is entrance to Bishop Field. Make it look old and authentic with iron signs and gates. So when the cars drive by, they want to stop and
1:23:07 look. Always do this later if need more funding. Uh number six is batting cages and pitching mounds on both sides.
1:23:14 Number seven is have places in the outfield for sponsorships on fence.
1:23:19 That's Yeah, I think it was just a little bit more elaborate, but Yeah, we'll you know um where where did that list come from?
1:23:28 Um Jeff was on the committee. He was just email.
1:23:32 Let me ask you a question. So are we all coming to some sort of consensus about like the overall what kind of the direction we're going with this as far
1:23:40 as like keeping the parking lot right field. The turf would be ideal. Um keeping the the shell the historic
1:23:48 nature of it. I mean, are we all kind of coming together? Because I think it's important that we get y'all's buying, our buying. Um, because we're merging
1:23:56 like the the player side, and then the neighborhood, and we want something that you guys are going to be proud of, that we could play and we're going to be proud of. Um, and that honestly that we
1:24:06 could bring some great visitors that might want to come live here because I think, you know, you bring high schools from up there that come and play or or colleges. I mean, some of these kids are going to come stay here and live here.
1:24:15 They're going to have a good time.
1:24:16 They're going to eat at the pub. They're going to, you know, they're going to want to come and stay here. You know, they're going to have a good time with choice of champions for baseball. Yeah.
1:24:23 Does um after all those priorities, which I agree those are the priorities that those priorities should be.
1:24:32 Yeah.
1:24:32 If I put it that way, um the surrounding fence would be Yeah. Like not not the fence, but like the surrounding area, the trees, the the
1:24:41 landscaping, what it actually looks like, like a beautifification of like the the landscaping around The oak trees are already beautiful, you know.
1:24:48 Yeah, that's why when I saw that parking lot, I was like, "No way." Those live oaks.
1:24:53 So, I'm just talking about like the the grass and everything that's on the outside on the slope down.
1:24:59 Can we can we make that as a like a last? Yeah. Like a you know, I mean, if it's going to be the area right there. Yeah.
1:25:08 So, I guess when we're when we're doing the surrounding fencing, like Jeff was saying, like if we could do black fencing around it, including landscaping. Let's let's put landscaping plan.
1:25:17 Are we referring that has damaged the curb and rug like dug up that that soil that's on the side because they drive across in the back.
1:25:28 They also drive and the cops drive up there too by the way. Yeah, I show them all the time.
1:25:33 So all the curbing is is damaged on on Second Street from just vehicles hopping. But I think that that whole
1:25:42 area, like we mentioned, if we put the netting, it'll discourage people from parking back there.
1:25:47 And then if we put Yeah. And if we put the fence, a secondary fence, and obviously if we do that to include landscaping.
1:25:53 Another reason that is when they come right the field, that's where they drive in.
1:25:59 You know, the gates, the gate, the maintenance gate is there.
1:26:03 If you do turf, that's another Can I get some clarification on this landscaping? So, uh, is it supposed to
1:26:12 be in the outfield area like past the outfield?
1:26:15 The whole park like like landscaping and and a secondary fence around the whole park like Okay.
1:26:20 in in the that that oaks area in left field. What what is that street? Dodto. Dodto. Okay.
1:26:28 Yeah. So just area Yeah. site beautifification.
1:26:32 Yeah. Just like landscaping, you know, a hardcape, you know, I guess what we call that, right, with fencing and all that.
1:26:38 And so, Nathan, do you think that the the city would like like something
1:26:46 really big right there? Like when you're driving down uh I4 and you go under that one overpass, it's like Orlando, Orlando.
1:26:56 They want to do some big arch. way there. Something like that right there.
1:27:00 Welcome to historical or welcome to Claremont over 50. Is that Well, it wouldn't be over
1:27:08 if you were to do something um the city owns land on both sides of the east. Okay.
1:27:15 If you did if you wanted to do something like that, that that's one way to do it.
1:27:20 Um but that would be a separate project because it's the street. It's wouldn't be Bishop, right?
1:27:26 Right. Another way that I look at it is um you know I think that's the sort of thing that we bring up once we get the basic we'll get a basic outline of
1:27:34 everything and then um under ideal circumstances we'll be able to afford to get a 3D visualization of it so that we
1:27:42 can actually get down and see from different angles what's it like if I'm driving out east what if I'm walking up the street or get those different views
1:27:51 and then we're going to have uh some things will pop into our mind about at that time say, you know, I
1:27:59 never really thought about that. You know, maybe that's what we should do right here or we can do this. I I don't think that's the the easiest thing to do
1:28:08 right now. So, it's it's not top of mind because we've got to get the field operational first, of course. Is it um long-term goal also
1:28:17 to have it connected to the the string of pearls idea?
1:28:21 String of pearls is not connected directly at that point. The string of pearls go they want to do all the different
1:28:28 the west side of Crystal Lake and then comes you know but it comes up to east it comes up east where there's the just
1:28:37 the dormant easement right there off of ultimately what was
1:28:43 okay and that that's where the string is to go.
1:28:48 So my my question is if there Yeah, if there I mean it's it's literally right there. They want to make
1:28:55 that like an extension trail um you know connect out there.
1:29:00 People could take their golf be cool and come watch a game, you know, if they're they're on a bike and they want to come watch a game, hear some players playing, they could come watch
1:29:08 and I think that'd be I don't know that that I don't know that that's within the purview of what we want to think of, but just as an
1:29:15 No, I think it's a brilliant thing to include is to be about the different people who can benefit from our
1:29:24 investment in it. And so that's why as an example, that's one of the reasons why when we were in the field, we were looking at that playground and picnic
1:29:31 tables because that's the concern of the mom's crew out there waiting for the kids is they got younger kids or something. What do I do with them?
1:29:40 Because they won't sit still in the stands. So I got to deal with them somewhere. Oh, thank goodness we have this large amount of land over off of the first baseline.
1:29:50 So anyhow, so all these periphery things. I mean, it's it's like if I'm if I'm a, you know, I'm across Lake, you
1:29:57 know, so I I don't, you know, all I see is the lights.
1:30:01 Um, so but I would be thinking about um other things that some people might think of silly, which is how can we make
1:30:08 this more artist? How can we incorporate art into how we do this? We do this in a more clever way than just the way
1:30:16 everybody does it. I I love the idea of that.
1:30:18 So there's there's a So it would be good if everybody on the committee can think about those things. You guys are out there teaching the the kids, you know,
1:30:25 what they need to do. And you might have an idea or a kid might have an idea.
1:30:30 And so we're not at the end of the process. We've got to get that that that vision in a physical, you know, in a a
1:30:38 graphic form so that we can then start asking another round of question.
1:30:46 shaved like some I some kids ended up in the back of our house the other day and I was like, "Hey guys, what are you
1:30:54 doing?" And they're like, "Oh, we just came from the ball field." And they're like, "Oh, we just want to play. There's not a lot of shade out there."
1:31:02 So, in the new the new stansions um will have shade, like sufficient shade for them. They have shade now.
1:31:09 Yeah, that's what she just said. I haven't been to a ball, so I don't know.
1:31:13 They have shade. I mean the field I mean they can sit in the stands. There's still stands or where the people will be sitting at will be shaded
1:31:20 if if we if you do the playground area the bleachers. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:31:27 But that's shades is an important thing. Okay.
1:31:32 I just had maybe a little off but will helicopters still be able to land there with the taller new landing and stuff because that seems
1:31:40 He's a helicopter mechanic. He's the one that does that all the time. Whenever he's bored, he would mess up. Is that what you do? Yeah.
1:31:47 No, that is a very good question because there's been, you know, numerous life flights that go out of there. He's what he does for a living.
1:31:56 They can land on the turf.
1:31:58 There is there is a slight risk of the turf unfolding and coming off. It has happened, but they will land at a turf field. Yes.
1:32:08 And then whoever had to be like flight is have to pay for that with insurance bill.
1:32:14 All right. But already to sort of wrap it up. So the idea is there's enough meat on the bones right now to engage the design process.
1:32:23 Yes.
1:32:23 And then once we get that going, which we don't know when that's going to be specifically, the idea is convene. That doesn't mean we all stop thinking about
1:32:32 how we might improve things. still put it on your list so that when the design what we may do uh is uh get a very rough
1:32:40 idea and have the design designer whoever that may be come back for a committee meeting have them ask you the
1:32:48 questions that are on their mind about how to how to do it.
1:32:51 So we don't know what that process is going to exactly look like right now.
1:32:54 So do we and that's why back to like do we feel like we have enough consensus to Nathan's point enough meat in the bones to push forward because I mean there's
1:33:02 cost to this. We don't want to uh because I think we do, you know, I think we're all in agreement. We didn't like the the ugly parking lot. We, you know,
1:33:09 we want to make sure something you guys are proud of. We want something that's safe and that our major league specs, which we feel like we can address. So, I think we're ticking every single box.
1:33:17 And, you know, the only other thing I would bring up is timetable. As we're doing these plans, if they could try to
1:33:26 include some sort of timet like what would like if funding was there, what would it take to because Yeah, we had $6 million to narrow spend.
1:33:36 Um, yeah. Two months then I mean it's still RFP process and plan. So, let's put it this way. Yeah.
1:33:42 Just just so just so we could be realistic. The the art lake filter multi-purpose field is small and all we're doing is replacing the artificial turf.
1:33:51 Yeah.
1:33:52 And we went out to we did RFPs in January or something. The turf should be installed by December.
1:34:02 Yeah.
1:34:03 So, I mean that's just so like we I'm hoping to have the field open by December 1st.
1:34:09 So, just so just so there's reality of of what it and that is just to do a it's not even a full-sighted soccer field.
1:34:19 It's a it's a small soccer field. It's 80 yard field. It's an 80 yard soccer field and just a field. We're not doing anything
1:34:26 else. We're not doing a fence. We're not doing a grand stand. We're not doing just doing that field. That's it. I'm
1:34:33 just trying to have a realistic time frame for everybody. Yeah. So, if we Yeah.
1:34:39 Yeah. My hope is that we can get it done by by 2028, you know, spring of 2028 that it can be ready to go, you know.
1:34:47 Okay. So, all hearts clear, huh, everybody? We're I think we're This is like going to be a a picture of what
1:34:54 community can work with. You see, I'm telling you, a great shot, you know. All right. So, I motion to close this. Anybody second it? Second.
1:35:01 Second. Third. Okay. We close this journ. Where's my gabble?
1:35:05 Where's Where's my
1:35:08 [music]
1:35:16 [music]
1:35:22 [music]
1:35:40 [music]
1:35:45 [music]
0:00 Right. All right. Is everybody that needs to be here there? Yes, sir.
0:06 Y share my screen. You guys see the screen? Yeah. Mhm.
0:14 Y. So, thank you everyone.
0:18 It's been a really good opportunity to, you know, dig in and and know a little bit more about um you guys needs and
0:28 CPA is trying to, you know, get to know you guys and know what you guys want and this this being a couple of maybe like a
0:37 couple of weeks now work. So, h but it's not a final. So, we just kind of, you know, put everything uh to you guys to
0:45 see. Um are there some uh criterias of like assumptions and parameters that we
0:53 want to go over first? uh for example the the what type of parking sites we we
1:01 choose and why uh and then we're going to talk a little bit about the opportunities and the challenges for
1:09 each site and stuff that we see you know that um we could you know use for and
1:16 then there's other things you know like they're kind of like our constraints uh and then as as soon As you know we go
1:26 over the three concept you know if there's a really you know question that you guys want to go before continuing we
1:34 could do that but it will be good for you guys to see first like kind of like the solution and then we could go over questions and next steps. Does that sound good?
1:44 Yes. Yeah.
1:50 Yeah. So, uh, first, uh, we have a 10 by 20 parking, uh, spots. This is going to
1:57 be more easier for us to kind of like lay out the the parking garages and
2:04 the the faster way to make sure that we have a an actual account of parking spots that we could get behind and
2:14 not, you know, not go back and say, "Oh, sorry, we missed by this amount." Because like we now we have to you know comply with this or comply with this
2:23 other thing. We could later um whenever we have a more nailed down um schematic
2:33 we could get a smaller count and we could have higher. So this is
2:40 our kind of like we know that we could provide this amount of parking spots.
2:45 The other thing is like because of the amount of time we did not provide any driveway
2:54 curves or you know all these curves here that you
3:02 can see on this side you know they're there for a reason for for cars to move around and all that. So, you're going to
3:09 see that there there's a little bit of space there, but there they're there going to be more of
3:16 those curves around the parking spots.
3:22 That's something else why we choose to do that 10 by 20. That's going to provide us, you know, a little bit more wiggle room for for us if we need to,
3:31 you know, move a little bit more to one side or the other. There's al also ADA spaces that
3:38 um we need to account for and they're going to be you know they will have to be on place located
3:46 but we have you know enough space to kind of like provide those ones too once we reduce to the 9 by8
3:54 and that's kind of like the the majority for where we choose the other thing is like
4:02 this is um a mechanical and vertical uh uh movement for you know
4:09 people and we may be able to you know if we we later on discover that we have to provide for splinkers or we have to
4:17 provide you know um ADA per we need to provide a lot more space so at least we know that this is the the
4:26 least amount [music] of space that that we're comfortable you know putting there to make sure that we're compliant with
4:32 that so all these things are are are due to change whenever we have you know like
4:38 more time and um more specific um concept. The other parameters is that
4:46 this is a a driveway and this is going to be a double loaded parking on both
4:53 sides. So this is going to be 62 ft from uh from outside to middle and this is
5:00 for account for structural um framing and beams and columns and all
5:07 that. So this is this you know whenever we have a smaller
5:14 amount parking spot that could you know we could maybe get a little bit more tighter there. So those are kind of like the the the parameters you know like we
5:23 we we have for for the product and it's going to be repeated on all the the concepts.
5:31 So uh any question before I move to opportunities and changes for each specific site
5:43 since the image is not very big I just wanted some orientation. There's min on the top of the screen and seven right here on the right of the screen.
5:52 Yes. Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Did I ever? Yeah.
6:00 Yeah.
6:02 So, uh opportunities and challenges. We're going to go from the first uh first
6:09 site, first concept, and then we're going to go for all parking. Then we're going to talk a little bit about less a little bit more commercial than the
6:18 highest commercial. So on this side specifically, okay, we were talking to
6:25 uh I think was saying Nathan, we have um a some constraints here because of
6:34 there's a an eastment, there's some utilities going down there. There's water, there's gas, there's power,
6:41 there's unlike a lot of those things that are used for for all the businesses here. So um we have to move away from
6:50 that and given the the 62 feet dry with double loaded parking spots we were able to provide closer to 20 25 24 ft buffer.
7:03 So that's something you know like is we could use it for something else. When
7:11 when we went to the side, you know, we saw that there's some some businesses here, you know, that they
7:17 they will be using this area for, you know, for getting into their their businesses.
7:24 The other thing is this could be used for you know getting
7:31 materials or or produce or you know uh servicing all this area. there's another
7:38 option that some some of those businesses could be served by through this driveway here.
7:47 And so we, you know, we we're trying to get the the most out of the site, but at the same time, we want to be able to give you something that that is viable.
7:57 And that's why we're we're kind like having that space there. We're going to have two entryways. One entrance is
8:05 going to be through seventh and then the other one's going to be through Mola.
8:11 This is going to be the the the slope for to get to the second uh roof
8:19 the second floor and so on so forth. Uh we are not accounting right now for the for the slope given the the amount of
8:28 time. Uh but this is uh there's going to be a difference of like almost 10 ft from this point to this point. So that
8:36 will require you know a little bit of um of ironing down and some more care you know on that on on on the actual site
8:44 for later on. Um these uh we're trying to preserve uh the the tree here and the
8:53 other thing that we notice that this site is already 100%
9:00 in previous so we will not be required to have a retention fund. But if in any case, you know, later on we uh some
9:09 permitting or, you know, there's some paperwork that was missing or something like that that happened on some some projects, you know, we could have a
9:16 little bit of that potential storm water retention [clears throat] on next to the
9:22 site. This site is not owned by the city, but it could maybe be acquired
9:30 later on. Am I missing something here? She on this one.
9:36 Are are you moving a pointer around or something? Yes. Yeah. Sorry. Can you make your pointer bigger?
9:45 I could try. Certainly trying. Let's see. Can the center screen go full screen?
9:49 You're talking about here to here and I don't know where you are. Do you see this? If I do, do you see this?
9:55 It's almost works in the caption now so we can see. All right. You guys good with that?
10:00 Yeah, I think I'm right. Now that we have the other I could try to make it bigger.
10:08 So So the blue is a So this is the I was talking about the
10:15 the for the retention if needed and that's the part behind the airream currently.
10:21 But this all goes it all goes to victory point. So we don't need water retention.
10:25 That's why I'm not sure why they're in on that. That makes no sense.
10:28 So we're good. Yeah, I think that's Jason's land there, right? And for those who don't know that that site
10:35 is owned by Jason, um he would put a building right there that helps enclose. Right.
10:43 Yes.
10:43 So instead of the building being lost, that could be the building.
10:48 Yes. So this is the most amount of parking spots that we are able to fit on this side site and we have around 395 parking
10:58 stalls total and that's divided in between first floor because of engine
11:06 movement it's going to be around 47 for the first floor and then from second to fifth floor it's going to be 87 stalls per per floor.
11:16 So that's with the 10 by 20 though, right? Yes, this is for the 10 by 20.
11:22 That's without you know curvous and uh all those sort of stuff.
11:29 Did we play with 9 by8s? Yes, we can. We can later on.
11:36 We would after this um to Waldo's point earlier was that the easier design at
11:44 this point to just get these concepts to you was going by the 10x 20s. That accounts for possible reduction to the
11:53 18 by9s, but also taking into account that you're going to need expanded uh spaces for the ADA spaces that are going to be required throughout too.
12:05 So, it's still going to be pretty close to that no matter what. Where's the entrance?
12:16 Okay. So, there there's an access on Minnola. Correct. Yes.
12:23 Okay. And when Minnola Street is closed for events, how do people get out of the parking structure?
12:30 They can go through seven and come up seven still. So you can't use a single entrance for events.
12:40 Correct. Yeah.
12:47 [clears throat]
12:52 So on this on the on the 395 number that is how many stories?
12:57 Five stories. All their assumptions are the 10 by 20 slots and four effectively
13:05 four stories with parking on that top of the floor.
13:09 So essentially correct. And how tall is that building? It's going to be around uh 48.
13:19 How much is one more story?
13:23 Uh it's going to be 11 ft for the first story and then from that point on uh all the consecutive uh floors are going to be 10 foot floor to store.
13:34 So if we went to 56 we could add another level.
13:43 We could we could contemplate. Yeah. You say 7 and 12.
13:46 Well 48 + 11 is going to be more closer to 60.
13:56 He said, just so you understood, he said 10 foot 8. Okay. 108.
14:04 No, it was 10'8.
14:06 Yeah, the first floor is 1118, I believe. And then the following floors additionally would be 10'8.
14:17 But if we But if we ask the city for a few more feet, we can add how many more spots?
14:24 I believe it was 87.
14:32 We're just wondering from the thin prop design is a big difference in numbers. I think we talking 395 to what 470 75 spots.
14:44 I think that's big as big of a buffer that that's what we're thinking if the buffer on that or there was a buffer before.
14:53 Yeah. What may be changing is the number. So there was a fivetory.
15:01 Um Todd, can you refresh our memory?
15:03 There were three different versions, right? But the tallest one had like 475.
15:13 Is that a a five story? Well, it was four with an open tuckup. So, yes, it acted as a five. It also could have been smaller stalls. I'm not sure.
15:21 And what is this kind of thing?
15:23 All of these concepts which are mostly focused on the footprint and how they light everything around it are premised
15:31 upon four stories and then parking up on the top. So, effectively be five floors of parking but a four structure.
15:41 That's what we're thinking. So if we compare the same number of stories, how did we lose almost what 80 spots?
15:49 I wonder if is that for the They said they didn't have enough time to make the spot smaller
15:58 and but that's not going to change it much. I think the difference [music] adding up I think the difference is the additional floor and the increased
16:06 buffer between the buffer shouldn't make that big of a difference. something was about the same. So, we can look we can look at it,
16:15 but their their point is is we're not trying to come up with a precise feature for parking right now. We're trying to get a general ballpark of what we're looking at and they can adjust it [music] from there.
16:25 450. They're not [music] 395 is not on the ballpark, would you say? Right.
16:32 Yeah. And I wonder how much how much of a percentage can we expect to be adjusted if they play around with the numbers. Well, here's the situation that
16:40 we're in is that they've got to produce three different concepts for each site.
16:45 Okay? So, the big point is to choose which which concept out of the three you like the most. If you feel like we're
16:54 getting too few of a parking count, for example, on this concept, they've got two others, okay, to look at. So,
17:02 can I just get clarification because I just added up the numbers he gave us and it looks like this is a fivetory garage.
17:10 It's function rooftop at some. It is. It is a fivetory with the top.
17:17 The top is going to be it's going to have another parking.
17:21 Perfect. So, we should look at the next two and then kind of elaborate on that.
17:24 Yes. And then I'm going to guide it so they know which one to go further on.
17:30 Yeah. And same thing with the other side. Okay, sounds good. Thank you for that.
17:34 Okay, sounds good. So this is the other one. And this is we're going to you know
17:41 the same layout because because of the constraint you know we have two drive aisles and
17:48 each one is going to be double loaded and and then we're going to instead of having parking on this um
17:56 [clears throat] east side we're going to have around 1,600 square ft of commercial mix space.
18:05 This is um we we try to have you know different
18:12 positions of commercial area and this is kind of like the the most appealing to to everyone.
18:22 We still have you know the the buffer on all of the 3D sites and this one it
18:29 counts for 300 wait yeah 281. So, we're going to lose
18:35 all this part here on on the east. It's going to project a little bit more. We think that was going to project more to
18:44 the second floor because if um the 11 ft sometimes is not comfortable for a for a
18:51 business. So, we we may raise it to 14 ft, but that could change later on too.
18:58 like if we if we could have depending on the scope of the site um we may be able to maybe have a parking on this area. So
19:07 that uh is for the this concept to this like commercial
19:15 and then we have this is kind of like the most commercial that we could put in comfortably.
19:22 This is going to be 345 parking stalls total. Um they're going to be 5,500
19:30 square ft of commercial for big space and it's going to be around 7th and
19:36 Mola. Uh this one something else like I I know we talk about more mostly of
19:45 trying to get most of of seven street. That's kind of like the most important.
19:52 This is kind of like just to make a put it out there to kind of like think of like because once with a parking spot, you know, all this area kind of like is
20:01 going to to be more pedestrian access access. So, it's going to have more foot traffic. So, so our understanding is
20:09 like this area here are going to be in to pick up a little bit of that foot traffic too. So it's not that far
20:16 perfect you know like they may be able to think about this phase two for that improvement too but this is kind of like
20:24 an idea given that you know like that we have the most important part by
20:32 seven but you know just having that on on both sides we kind of like did the same thing just thinking of like putting it out there as an idea too. How much
20:40 how many square feet did you say that was? 5500. This one is 5,500.
20:51 And this is going to be just 20 ft wide by I think it's two 600 ft
20:58 less by two 200 ft.
21:05 That's $3.3 million.
21:14 Do you want to go to site two and then get some questions? Yeah. Is that okay with everybody?
21:27 It's not 3.3. Yeah.
21:30 So, this is going to be get nice view here. So this will be our most parking at all all sites.
21:43 The constraints on this side is the we have because of the 62 feet driveway we have
21:52 almost I think it's like 380 186T from the from our property line
22:02 right there by the by the sidewalk all the way to almost you know touching the
22:08 face of the of the city hall. So there's some, you know, this is really trying to
22:16 put it out there too. You know, this is a really, how can I say it? There's some things that we have to make sure, you know, like we have that 186 space available.
22:29 You know, this is a the three driveways and we have there's
22:40 there's opportunities here that we could do. Uh we don't need to do the tiles or the columns right at the face and we
22:48 could do a column in the middle and then project the floor out uh for for that first floor. There's some options there
22:56 that's going to be a little more expensive, but this is kind of like the the most parking spot that we could fit here.
23:03 And we try to actually have the same footprint uh on both sides. H. So you see like we are actually right there at
23:10 the at the property line here at the the property line here and then we just we're actually over the existing parky
23:18 and then we're actually on top of the sidewalk on the city like by by the
23:25 house the south entrance of the city hall.
23:28 So, yes, I just have a question because you
23:36 mentioned projecting the entrance. Um, does that also include like second floor and the third floors because I think those are the key bulbs that the
23:44 employees access. So, I was wondering are people going to be able to access city hall from like the second floor for example or am I misunderstanding?
23:54 Yeah. Like so here we have the the the slope going from the first to second is going
24:02 to be right in the middle. So these two faces are the opportunities to be flat.
24:07 So these two here will not have any slope. So we they we're were able to have, you know, we want to use some
24:14 spaces to do like a like an apron to to kind of like accentuate that that city hall entrance and have, you know, some
24:22 of these spots to be ADA or, you know, have the EV as we have it right here and then have the ADA on the other side.
24:30 That's an option too because we have that center um slope going to the second
24:37 floor right in in the middle instead of like on on one side. So that that will provide that and you know like you could
24:45 you could enter walking through any of of of this area here like if we have there were some some of the ideas was to
24:53 kind of like put one here the the slow ramp speed ramp put it right on this
25:00 face but then we only have the corners available for entrance and and movements. Yeah.
25:09 And I don't think there's any discussion about connecting. Okay.
25:14 What is the this one?
25:16 What is this one as proposed? How many spots does it create? So, we have 741 parking stalls total.
25:25 And this is the f first floor is going to have 113 stalls. And then the second to fifth floor is going to have 157 stalls per floor.
25:37 Thank you.
25:40 And these are the same thing we for we can use this area here for some water here. Uh we have that stone water
25:48 retention area here too that we may be able to use if needed to. This going to be the light commercial.
25:58 Uh this one um the constraint of the of the actual parking the
26:04 124 is is 62 for each driveway. Um so we have some space available for both north
26:13 and south facads. So, we're able to, you know, move uh away from from the city
26:20 hall. We're able to have some green area if we want to uh to use for
26:30 either potential storm water or if we want to use it for for something else.
26:34 We we're able to kind like have that frontage there instead of like having using that out of
26:42 sight retention. you're able to kind like keep it on the side, too. And this one have 466
26:50 parking stalls totals. And we have 47 stalls for the first floor. And then
26:58 the second is going to be around 92. The same thing if we have to project the
27:05 that first floor up, we may be able to um either have two floors of commercial
27:13 or we could have, you know, like that area to be this small way. So if this is the second floor, we may be able to get
27:22 that out and then have a more parking spot here. But for for these purposes, we want to make sure, you know, like if
27:29 we have a 40 ft tall commercial area, we we we may have to project it to the second floor.
27:37 Uh if I remember uh think that's all on this line.
27:45 Waldo, what was your assumption on the depth of that perspective commercial space and how many square feet?
27:55 Oh, the square feet for this commercial areas might be 3,500 and
28:02 because like when we have commercial space, we have to put acoustic ceiling and then above that acoustic ceiling,
28:10 you're going to have some framing, you're going to have some HBAC equipment. So, you're going to begin to encroach into the actual space
28:19 of the people. So we you know we don't want to have uh you know enter a commercial and then have you know a 8T
28:26 tall ceiling. It's it is legal but it going to feel really uncomfortable when you
28:33 have you know um more people there. It's going to feel a more heat too because it is not going to be able to rise as much.
28:41 But there's some things that we try to have at least 14 feet in between floor to floor when whenever we are having
28:49 people. So that's why we're kind of like doing that 14 ft on that commercial area there. um depending on that's what I say
28:57 like depending on uh how we laid it out and you know depending on the slow depending on a couple of things that we
29:05 are not able to um measure at this uh time for scope or you know what what we
29:12 want to accomplish here but but there's a possibility that that may go down but for this purposes we we choose to use
29:21 that for fee okay I I I don't know if I heard that.
29:25 So the dimensions of the box are what by what?
29:30 Oh, the dimension of the box. Yeah, this is going to be 20. So it's 40 goes to 40.
29:37 So it's 20 by 40.
29:41 40 by 80. [clears throat] Oh, it's 40 would be uh 3600. So we're just a little shy of the 80.
29:51 Yeah.
29:53 48 by 89 closer to this. Wow.
30:01 Okay. Thank you. Yeah.
30:05 And before you go off of that, Waldo, I just wanted to mention um just to expand on what Waldo said about the potential
30:13 storm water to the south and to the east. Um what we have found is that this site specifically does have the
30:22 underground storm water system already underneath. Uh so the
30:29 unfortunate thing is when you do put a structure this large over top that will not be able to be used. So we will have
30:37 to make some there has to be some sort of account to what storm water will not be able to be
30:44 used there on the rest of the site. So that's why we're kind of showing that as it is. And then again to his point that
30:53 by pulling this overall structure a little further south, further away from city hall, it does provide more of a
31:01 green space there. It provides that walkway for either the employees at city hall or any users going into city hall,
31:10 but also freshens up the area to the north. That kind of squares off and frames up that uh park in the northwest corner right there, too.
31:21 And your first one had no storm water retention whatsoever. No, it was on the park. No, I did.
31:30 So, it would have to be offsite. So, we lose that piece of property.
31:34 So, so the potential is that you are gaining so many more parking spaces with
31:40 that first concept that he's showing now that the potential would be that we would want to think about expanding that
31:49 storm water retention that's off to offsite on the west side. Um, keeping in mind that we're we would still have
31:57 probably a couple 88 spaces and [clears throat] make sure that that restroom that's over
32:04 in that section is also still usable at that time. And y'all think that's enough capacity?
32:15 I think between the two the two spaces that we have at least outlined here should be okay.
32:26 Yeah, that you know there some of these things you know could go lower if but yeah that's what we're trying to to get
32:34 you know like the what is the worst case scenario but what what we could get behind say we we could we could get in this amount of of parties.
32:44 So now we're going to go to this going to be the most uh uh
32:51 commercial mix space that we could see on here. So this one is
32:58 uh let me get one second. Oh yes, I remember now. Uh this one is we're going
33:04 to have we expanded a little bit more to the east side and instead of be 300 ft
33:15 uh here we have 330. So that will provide us around three parking spots per line. So we're going to have around 12 uh spots more per floor.
33:28 This is something else that we wanted to kind of like have for like an idea of like, you know, once we have more parking spot, you know, we're going to
33:36 have more um pedestrian walking everywhere. So, um I know like this is
33:44 not like the the the prefer the prefer
33:55 road to have commercial space. We always want to go or seven. But this is something that later on we could find,
34:02 you know, like um if you guys want to have it, we could expand here and then have that commercial area once the the
34:09 city begins to grow and then all that commercial go to sprawl all over, you know, the school and the, you know, there's some stores for school here.
34:19 There's some, you know, businesses and lawyers because they're so close to the capital and stuff like that. they may begin to want to have more space here.
34:28 So this is more kind of like an idea of like hey you know we could begin flow and then go go bigger or you know if if
34:36 you guys choose to we have that other option that we only have that area here.
34:41 Um there was another discussion to have uh some importance to to this park here.
34:49 The park is used for you know uh New Year's and stuff like that. We wanted to make sure
34:56 that we're not giving the the back of the of the site. We you know try to have
35:04 some some opportunities here with commercial spaces. uh it's not huge, it's not big, but it's something that
35:10 you know there could be some some minor commercial activities going on there for
35:17 you know um support these
35:23 here. So in this idea we have 522
35:29 pest stalls total h because of that 30 ft expansion
35:36 then we have around 56 5,600 square ft of commercial space and then
35:45 we have 57 57 parking stalls for the first floor
35:52 and then the second Because of that projection here, uh we're going to have around 110 111
36:02 parking spots and 400 400 440 4,400 sorry. Uh on this area if if we choose
36:10 to have, you know, a second floor commercial or if we have, you know, by just a project on the 14 ft like we were talking about just before.
36:22 At this point, we choose to not reject it to the second because that could be you know more may maybe
36:30 need to be open or have you know some other arrangement to be like more closed. The other thing is like because
36:38 it's right on top of the of the slope uh ramp uh driveway you know we're going to
36:44 have some difficulties there to to make that happen comfortably. So maybe half of it is going to be a storage area
36:53 because of the slope kind of like kind of like the same space that you have under your stairs. Like there is some parts that are really comfortable, but
37:01 there's some corners closer to the to the to the point of where that angle is be going up and it's going to be more
37:10 difficult. So the same thing could happen here. we could have, you know, some storage sh here and then we could have some um opportunities for to to
37:19 make that importance here to that to that parking area and then from third to fifth [clears throat] floor is going to
37:26 have around 118 solves. So, uh this one uh we were thinking of like
37:34 having expanding that storm area retention here if needed. Uh and then we could maybe use this as a as a buffer.
37:43 We could use it as a path or pedestrian sitting, you know, something that that
37:50 kind of like I really like the the animal that build that is in front of the of the city hall.
37:59 the city center.
38:02 Yeah, that one. The civic center. That that that is, you know, pretty nice. And you have some some protrusions going off
38:08 and on. And, you know, there there may be an opportunity to have a little bit more green area here and have a little
38:16 bit of a landscape or heartscape to to, you know, improve the area. money if later on, you know,
38:24 we could if she whoever, you know, chooses to to expand that there there's a possibility there because this is
38:33 actually detached from the actual parking structure. So, it's not going under the structure and occupying
38:41 parking spots, but there actually is outside that parking uh footprint
38:48 and you know, you're able to go all the way up if you want to. So, so those are, you know, kind of like the possibilities
38:55 and and of of this specific site. So, well though, how deep is that commercial then on the seventh street side? Is that then 20 ft?
39:06 No, on seventh street that's on seven. Yeah, I think it's 80 + 30 118.
39:14 But how how deep the depth is 20 20? Yes.
39:24 16 by 96.
39:47 Any question, comments?
39:56 Is there something cheap from any other sites?
40:03 No, I mean you you hit everything on the on the nose.
40:14 Maybe it's too early to ask this question, but I was wondering about the cost of each concept. All right.
40:24 Go ahead.
40:25 Let me ask you a question. Uh you've got the uh elevators, I guess, in the stairs
40:33 on the north west and the southeast corners. on the northwest corner. Does
40:40 that have to be in the very corner of the building or can it be to the east of
40:47 the spa that commercial space you put in there?
40:52 Um the we could put it on the on the southwest because like here here we have the the
41:00 ramp. So going through the ramp is going to be a little difficult for you know like pouring and doing all the stuff.
41:07 Plus, you have you need to have a flat surface for people to move in and out.
41:13 So, you know, those those things are are going to be a little bit uncomfortable to actually put it on on the ramp. So,
41:20 the options are we could put it here, any place here in this flat area or we could put it on the corners of of the
41:27 building preferably.
41:30 uh you know like if if someone's going to be here you know they may you know they may park here and they can go here and then kind of like travel to this
41:39 area is you know I don't think they're they may want to go here on the corner but it kind of like provides more
41:45 opening to like if someone want to go h here they could get that one or this one
41:53 is going to serve this radio and then this other vertical movement is going to service this radio.
42:03 So, you know, the the farther away they are, the more, you know, efficient it's going to be for like moving people
42:10 around and in and out. So, right. But it's the most valuable space for Nathan.
42:17 So Waldo, my question then is if if you were then to flip the the the slope to the south side, then
42:24 that north side would be flat and then you could accommodate having the stairs and elevator in the center there. So you would come down and get right.
42:32 For sure. Thank you.
42:36 I think that's what you were trying to get to. Yes.
42:39 Well, yeah. I just don't, you know, if you're going to uh line the the garage, the most important part is the to anchor the city hall park.
42:49 Right now, you've got the very corner of it, uh, which is the most valuable space to cover uh, you know, just using for
42:57 circulation where you need to move those bathrooms, one south, the other one north. Although, I have an even better one.
43:05 You're going to love this. So if you actually combine kind of concept two and three and where our current bathrooms
43:13 are in that old those old crappy bathrooms in that parking lot, you spray that entire thing and that becomes retention and then you use that 20 foot
43:21 deep commercial space as your new public restroom facility would then accommodate that area. And
43:29 then you get that retention. And then you can take this kind of plan we have here on three, but then you grab number
43:35 two and extend it all the way down to um what is our south road there? Dodto.
43:42 Send it all the way down to Dodto. So you kind of get a blend of two and three.
43:47 I'm sorry, of one and one and three. I guess it's kind of so does the net does the parking end up
43:56 somewhere between 741 and 54 I would think so gain gain some from three lose some from one
44:03 because I don't think we want to hammer that thing like right up against city hall like that just takes away from city hall in general
44:12 but I I do think if possible the elevator on the north side should be centered on city hall city all entrance.
44:21 Mhm.
44:22 I think that's, you know, the corner is cute, but you know, most people, let's say you come down in the middle of the north side, go right into city hall, or you turn the left to go downtown.
44:34 Yeah.
44:37 Yeah. And moving the the slope ramp to the south side makes perfect sense. Yeah.
44:43 Yeah. Yeah, I think on this one we choose to have the the flat area on the south because of the businesses here.
44:51 Like if they want to have, you know, maybe an entrance there or some type of access, they could do it here. But yeah,
44:58 totally we could have, you know, someh have that as the ramp and then we could have the only interest is going to be
45:06 here. I don't think that's going to be like a major problem, but we will we will be able to uh have a center
45:15 vertical uh uh ch here for people and everything.
45:25 So the only question I have did did they have access to the Brock plan? No. Okay.
45:32 We we just saw a Yes, they did. They did. I'm just plan. Yeah. I'm just curious.
45:39 Of course, I went You're curious about the numbers.
45:42 Yeah. So, and I understand 10 by 20 foot spaces might be part of that, but why it
45:50 dropped from whatever the Yes.
45:55 Waldo, do you know the answer to that question off the top of your head? Why the the numbers are different from the
46:01 thin frock proposal on 7th and Minola uh versus yours?
46:08 Is it just the we saw we saw the like a rough let me say may I may find the email
46:17 we saw the the was like a patch
46:23 [clears throat]
46:24 was Jason what's it so we we were not able to you know look
46:31 really closely to to uh through their proposal but
46:38 For example, here you see how they have the that spaces for for the for the
46:47 I know that I'm losing um the corners, you know, and all that stuff like they they may they have a little bit more
46:55 space here too. So I don't it's the second floor too. So, I don't know like you know having an entrance to a portrait
47:03 not the middle but you know like not all the way to the edge you know there's some stuff there that may they may miss
47:11 or or we may have made but I I I don't know I really haven't haven't studied their proposal yet
47:20 I don't see any what was the count that they had anybody knows I mean I I thought it was 477 but I think dedicated there.
47:30 It's as if both sides.
47:32 No, this is the second. This is the second floor.
47:35 So, it's a little more the the ramp is handled on the first floor.
47:41 This is Yeah, this is But I want to say that they had they had to deal with the topography on the first floor and this is upper floors.
47:49 So, because you would have like half a floor coming off. Yeah. Yes.
47:58 start to slope up towards seven.
48:01 They didn't receive the full proposal that I think we all saw like last year.
48:08 No, we just got one this May. Okay.
48:11 Okay. I believe was in May when we got the updated FER proposal.
48:16 Yeah. So, that's the one that they had access to.
48:19 We gave them uh that one. And then this is a another document we gave them.
48:28 which was just showing how um what was potentially could happen around the site.
48:36 Put a couple here just in case.
48:40 So, right now there's 76 on that on that floor and there's room.
48:47 Oh, wait. We could we could do we could do a couple more here. Let's see. So, that would have been the top floor.
48:55 [clears throat]
48:56 Yeah, but you're going to be able to use this one here. So, keep that one.
49:02 So, we got 77 or something. Yeah.
49:08 actually. So right now, right now with this one having 77 uh parking stalls
49:16 by if I multiply that by five is 385
49:23 on for five floors that is without counting the the entryways.
49:31 Maybe they they maybe they put more floors. Did anyone know how many floors were they? Four +
49:49 we're looking.
49:53 No, it looks like it was just four with an open top. So, it acted as five.
50:01 Yeah. I'm looking to see if they had a number.
50:13 Did you guys come up with any um renderings at all or No, not yet.
50:20 Okay.
50:23 Did you need us to decide on which concepts we like first and then go to renderings? Yes. Correct. That would be the best.
50:32 That was our goal for for this meeting.
50:35 Um to get an understanding of and again I know you guys already kind of touched
50:41 on it. Um one full concept or direction for a concept for each site and that's when we would go into uh the renderings
50:50 for one for each site at that point. Um but again um someone had mentioned before
50:59 the the potential the reason we showed so many different layouts and elements to each each
51:08 concept was we could take elements of each one and kind of mix and match
51:14 whatever makes the most sense to put what what works best for each site, what works best for the city. Cool.
51:25 Thank you. Okay, I'll I can give you some numbers.
51:31 All right. Um, this was the car count from the Finn Frock proposed.
51:38 They had seven accessible uh um parking
51:46 um seven of them that were 12 by 18.
51:52 They had two that were ready for vans that were also 12 by 18. So nine 12 x
51:59 18s. They had eight 9 by18s for EVs.
52:07 Just 9 by8 for EVs.
52:11 Okay. And then they had 238 238 that were 9 by8.
52:23 They had 123 that were 9 by 20
52:31 and they had 98 that were 10 by 20.
52:55 Oh, did you add it up? I'm adding. Oh, thank you.
53:07 And as was amazing between and that's what that's what I'm hearing
53:15 and that and once again to confirm they handled the change in elevation by providing as you can see here this is
53:23 how much was on the lower floor because the lower floor on one side actually dips even
53:31 because you had the what 10 foot change so so that would be the only as far as me
53:39 the only question I have for the seventh street site is how can we not get more yeah it's almost the side shrunk
53:49 well I well that's on the assumption of 10 by 20 so as we see on their matrix here but but do you think like the difference
53:56 between 10 and 20 and what Jason was saying or what Pinfrock was saying is
54:03 80 spots seem possible no and from what Nathan has spread the majority are 9 by 20. Yeah. Yeah.
54:11 Or there's a lot of 9 by 18, but there's also a lot of 9 by 20 is 10 by 20.
54:17 But the the increase in number of sites is in the 10 foot dimension, right?
54:21 It's a one foot. So if you if you go 466 spots and you maybe duck out 16 of them
54:28 for, you know, ADA and everything else, you're at 460. And if you knock 10 a foot off each one, that get you another 46 bases.
54:36 Yeah, it does work.
54:39 That would be my only Well, 400. I'm sorry. 450 450. Take 16 off.
54:47 450 450 ft divided by 19 is No. No. That's the the depth or the width of the spot. We're talking width, not depth.
54:55 Yeah. If you have 450 spots ft everything you got one one foot get you
55:02 450 ft divided by 19 ft per spot 9 ft 19 we're doing a width down there
55:11 45 spots we we're off to their current proposal we are up by
55:21 what 80 spots 395 was 395 - 476 81 spots.
55:28 But given Wait, is the FitFrock is No, Fitrock's on 7th Street, not here, right?
55:32 But given not a sea hall, we're talking about seven.
55:37 Yeah. Yeah. We're We're wondering the reduction in the number from what Fintro had and Seventh Street to what they
55:47 presented as their biggest one, right, of 741. I'm sorry.
55:55 atola.
55:57 The problem is that Benrock had the opportunity to go in and optimize their parking where they haven't had that opportunity yet. So,
56:05 I mean, I think they still have the same square foot.
56:08 What kind of construction method is this or both of them? Does anyone know?
56:13 It'll be a pre-cast more than likely freight truck will be pre-cast.
56:20 Correct. What was your plan? Yeah, it's pre-cast, but every floor has got what 20% dead space because of the ramp.
56:29 How many floors? Do we do we know how many floors were on like that? Now, it was on the fifth floor.
56:37 There's a rather large area where there's no parking because that's the ramp.
56:44 That's that's question here. Yeah. Yeah.
56:47 Oh, yeah. This is a ramp between that's the first and second. We we are counting this area these these parking spots
56:56 where they cut the floorically you will not going there's parking on the slope. No they are parking on the slope. It's just
57:04 you just can't see it because it's the floor cut. So [clears throat] yes and this is what Finn let me see going on pure efficiency.
57:14 Yeah. Yeah. See, they showed a spot on everywhere. And this drawing has a big Okay.
57:31 So, what was the total on this concept?
57:35 The total for this one was 395.
57:44 Okay.
57:46 So, the thing that I'm trying to get you like Oh, sorry. Go ahead.
57:50 Potentially, if you're looking at and and this is just really
57:56 really uh just quick uh quick gueststimating. Um, if you're going to
58:05 get another one more space out of every 10 spaces that we provided on here, just by going
58:14 to 9 by8, you're looking at close probably somewhere between 30 to 35. After you
58:22 take into account some of the AEA spaces, too,
58:28 430. So that would put us at 425, 430.
58:34 And just as an advocate for people who drive real vehicles, [laughter] man trucks,
58:42 I would ask for a 10 by 20, especially on the bottom floor with enough height to be able to pull in there.
58:47 Um, I completely understand.
58:51 Well, is your would a 9 by 20 work for you? No, it'll still
59:00 even when I pull my mirrors in, I'm still tight. Yeah.
59:03 So, the big issue really that apparently the city hall site is just physically a bigger piece of dirt. It
59:10 is. Okay. I I didn't realize there was that much difference in the dirt size.
59:15 Well, and I would say that being a there are no questions about adding commercial space to the city hall property.
59:25 I agree.
59:26 And is it though? Is it though? I don't know if you know I mean you guys probably know more than
59:34 us whether the city is gaining forward or not because you you're talking from 741 to 466 even with the least.
59:44 Well, but if you look at the third one, it's the third one still has 5600 square ft of commercial space.
59:52 But you dropped to 422. the 741.
59:55 No, you dropped to 522, I thought. Is that not true? The third one was higher.
1:00:00 Here's the image of the problem with commercial space.
1:00:05 Assuming $600 per square foot, it gets very expensive very quick. That one was $3.3 million. Yes. On the front end.
1:00:12 Yeah.
1:00:14 And there's no economic revenue from that. We're not getting taxes on that because we own it. So that's where it
1:00:23 becomes a little bit more difficult to say, hey, this is a good thing. Yeah, they will get rent out of it, but there's no increase in tax base. There's
1:00:30 no it's hard to make the long-term argument for the city to own something like that.
1:00:35 At least in my mind, from when I sat on that seat, you'd have a hard time convincing me that that is something that the city wants to do. I will all
1:00:42 day long advocate for other people to be able to expand their commercial property and increase their property values because we'll collect tax dollars on it.
1:00:51 But could could the city basically sell off the commercial corridors with a zero I
1:00:58 mean could they piece that off with a zero lot line? Sure. Do you want a tenant on your property?
1:01:06 The they expressed and they even put out the RF P or I or whatever
1:01:16 about uh you know they specifically mentioned public private partnerships on getting this thing going.
1:01:23 So they were open well to the extent I you know I don't think you can argue that the city council is some singular entity with a
1:01:32 singular voice in mind about what they want to be able to do. that there are some voices that recognize that they're looking for ways to reduce the cost of
1:01:40 the city to build and that would be one way is to take on the brain damage that's required to do what Todd's
1:01:47 talking about which is it's not easy thing to do. It can be done. Yeah, it has been done elsewhere. I would say
1:01:55 yeah, but it may not be something they had the appetite for or they might prefer to sell it off, get the tax
1:02:03 dollars and the whatever price they sold at.
1:02:07 We can also do payment and move taxes as well as an option where we percentage goes back to the city if they rent out.
1:02:14 So there's there are options. It's just a matter of how that gets there because with you know 5600
1:02:22 And I'm looking at just the third option. 522 parking spots, 5600 square f feet of commercial space.
1:02:31 The more commercial space, even if it's mixed between attorneys and coffee shops and all that, it begins to bring the
1:02:41 traffic back toward city center instead of away from city center. And and just
1:02:49 to clarify how it can work nationally is that uh most uh wraps are residential in
1:02:56 character. They're not commercial or they only have commercial in the first floor and then the upper rack is residential. Yeah.
1:03:04 Um the opportunity once again this is just conceptual so through it but you
1:03:10 can have these small residential units can be reserved for city employees.
1:03:16 They're small enough, but they play a really important role in uh framing that that city hall park on that site. They
1:03:25 also can do a good job, you know, either on the corner of 7th of Mola. You know, remember that's a pretty good view you're giving to a stair or a parked car
1:03:34 as opposed to someone who would love to have that corner unit and give it a different feeling for people walking
1:03:41 around the town. But if City Hall. Okay. The city hall site, they have what, 700 spots,
1:03:50 which might be a little more than we're looking at, but if you go uh go to plan two or three for the city
1:03:59 hall site, you could knock a few parking spots off the east end, move the driveway over, and sell off the old Cooper Library site for your commercial.
1:04:11 Instead of putting commercial as part of the structure, how big was that? That's where Cooper Memorial used to be.
1:04:21 On that corner next to Kathy's house.
1:04:23 How much? Like where the blue is right now.
1:04:25 Where the blue is, you could enlarge that blue spot and sell that property.
1:04:29 Well, get your revenue from the commercial and put it back on the tax roll.
1:04:34 Yeah. Or even what Evan was saying, the modification, the mix between the first kind of a blend of everything. there.
1:04:42 It's kind of would be a blend of like you take the 20 foot depth that you have on seven. Uh you kill the commercial that's on Dodto.
1:04:50 The entire parking structure moves all the way down to Dodto.
1:04:54 Excuse me. Then the bathroom parking lot uh on the other side of seven. That entire thing goes away. That becomes retention. And then the bathrooms then move into a piece of that commercial.
1:05:04 Any type of commercial that might go in there could then use those public bathrooms already there. they don't have to incur the cost to put that in there.
1:05:12 There's those kind of options. As a developer, this is that's the most efficient way I see this because I also want to pull the garage away from city
1:05:20 hall a little bit as well to still have maybe a 12t 16 foot wide walkway between the you know the stairs of city hall
1:05:29 coming up and the parking structure don't need the water. Did you surplus that?
1:05:38 Say that again. Pardon me.
1:05:40 There's water retention on the east side of the parking structure. But no, that takes the opportunity, too.
1:05:45 That garage can go all the way over into that. But then then you're at 900 spots.
1:05:50 Well, no, you're not going to get to that because you're still going to have to come down and not all the way up against city wall.
1:05:55 The blue is water retention. And you're going to have to have Right. That's what I'm saying. Yes.
1:06:00 Yeah. Yeah. Because we're at capacity on Center Lake. So Center Lake's already at capacity.
1:06:05 Okay. that you're going to create increased water capacity west of the parking structure because you have to take it out from underneath where it is now.
1:06:14 Okay. But from above you got the same square. You got the same amount of rain
1:06:21 falling on four five floor five that you have falling on the black top right now.
1:06:28 So your water retention is the same amount of gallons.
1:06:31 I no they increase and you're losing all your islands. you're losing the under all the underground retention
1:06:38 goes away. So that volume that's there now, whatever those containers has to be then allocated somewhere else.
1:06:45 Right. And and you're saying they're saying take it across across the street.
1:06:49 Yes. And I'm saying if if there's enough room on the east end, you could combine that with the old
1:06:58 library property and sell that and give you revenue to help pay for this rather than trying to get into the property management.
1:07:07 I'm with you cuz I would love to see the city sell a bunch of their property, especially the little pieces that they can't use. Well, this could make it bigger.
1:07:15 I'm just telling you that there are members of that city council who don't want to sell anything.
1:07:20 Well, I think we might, you know, understand that because you never know that you never know when you're going to need.
1:07:26 I'm not talking about that piece in particular. I'm talking about other pieces that are in my mind are worthless in your life. Sell that property.
1:07:34 But I just think if we can't get seven, like to me, my only charge would be go
1:07:41 back and find a way to do more parking on seventh too. Yeah.
1:07:47 Just be just because I feel like somehow we lost 80 90 spots and that's almost like a non-starter to me.
1:07:55 But I don't know if you got I'm echoing your design opinion too. That's [snorts] this is what they came up with, but Venrock had months potentially to think
1:08:04 about it. So, and I have to say that I'm not upset with Fenro. I mean, I would turn around to the council and say I'd recommend Fenrocks right now. I mean, I'm good
1:08:12 with that. This one I like better than what we saw before. The only thing I would say is that on that Dotto side, um, it would probably make Allison
1:08:20 really happy if we could put some type of a pocket park along that road. Yes.
1:08:29 Is there any idea what we'd have to what the city would have to rent those spots for to to cover the cost of those of those units?
1:08:37 Uh I don't know what it is per square foot right now, but it would be whatever the going rate is.
1:08:42 I mean, whatever that rate is, it could pro, you know, it could exclude a cotton shop or something, you know,
1:08:49 a lot of exclusion coming up if you look at what's going on in Winter Garden right now.
1:08:53 Yeah. I mean, you're going to be market rate. I don't know the market rate is in maybe probably$25 to $35 a square foot. Why did they stop the commercial?
1:09:01 Why why did they run commercial all the way down the south to create a little green space?
1:09:08 I think also like at least on the preservation I understood we have the opportunity to extend that in the future but we don't have
1:09:16 right but does the city really want to be in commercial? No, that's not their function.
1:09:24 I have a really hard time. That's not their function.
1:09:28 If you said you wanted if somebody came in and said doing that down there on on No. No.
1:09:35 Um post office property and they wanted to do a public private partnership where they wrapped that entire corner. That
1:09:43 piece of property makes total sense to be able to do 100%. But not here. So does Becker. This one doesn't. Becker's another one.
1:09:51 We're not gonna have a We're not gonna have a funeral home in downtown Claremont forever. That's gonna go away.
1:09:58 And if somebody wanted if you were telling me, yeah, the property becomes and we needed more staff offices
1:10:06 wrapping the parking lot, that makes perfect sense to me.
1:10:11 I would advise you not to worry too much about what the space gets used for.
1:10:16 There's all sorts of things. Right now, as an example, we have an under supply of really small spaces. You know, that may not always be the case.
1:10:23 And I I would also add like along the soda, if you have been watching the planning and Sony commission, every few months there's somebody who comes in, usually a doctor or somebody trying to
1:10:32 open a medical office. They have purchased a home in that area and they convert it into a something like that.
1:10:39 But let's be honest that they're they're gaming the system on that one, just so you know.
1:10:43 Yeah. But that's there's demand for that type of space. Would that be That's not a demand.
1:10:49 That is somebody who's changing the that is that's not a oh we need a spot we can't
1:10:58 find a spot. That's a we want to convert this from residential to commercial to make it more valuable to sell it in two to three years.
1:11:08 Even though they call it just res.
1:11:10 Well, my whole thing too is like that whole area already is office and commercial. So I do not see something that is agree. I'm so sorry.
1:11:18 No, no, I'm saying no. I I'm agreeing with what I think you're about to say. Go ahead.
1:11:22 So I do not particularly see something like retail on itself side.
1:11:27 But I do see something like medical offices, general office, lawyers, things like that. Yes, they've already failed. Yeah.
1:11:34 And we're not here for that. We were not commissioned for that. We are here to solve the parking problem. And I think we have something working against us
1:11:42 which does do not want to be a landlord or have to deal with the sale or have to deal.
1:11:48 How do we know that there's a council member that says no there's there's been strong interest
1:11:54 in in having active frontages around certain portions of Yeah. And I don't even know that's not
1:12:02 our charge really. Right. Our charge that is your charge is to come up with something that's likely to be supported.
1:12:08 That's that's how I would look at it if I were in your shoes. I don't want to go through all this all these meetings, all of them to say, h
1:12:16 I got to take off just before I leave. I vote for uh site one option two.
1:12:23 Um the little bit of Yeah, you're talking about seventh of seven
1:12:31 for the city hall one option one. Uh I I don't think any retail is belongs behind city hall. I think
1:12:39 unless it's professional, but it just seems like we're trying to check a box by putting something here that's
1:12:45 anything but parking. 700 spots, not the best location in my opinion, but it's 700 spots. So yeah, I'll take it. But I
1:12:53 don't see why there should be any retail or any kind of professional. I think it clouds the judgment of I said I think
1:13:00 Allison would rather a park than than some kind of uh like dentist office on
1:13:06 the corner of a parking garage. So, but that's just my opinion. I think that uh but I do want to find out whether any spots left because I think that also
1:13:15 clouds the judgment as well when you go from you know close to 500 spots or on the on the closer to 500 now we're
1:13:21 closer to 400 and I think it clouds the discussion that's accounts that they have. So, I wouldn't necessarily go by
1:13:29 their first design. Said they've only had two weeks to figure this out. So, all right. Thanks, guys. Thank you.
1:13:36 Now, we did have a discussion about last week about a flex space in front of this
1:13:45 which this doesn't reflect. So, I think some of you guys weren't here for that, right? Which this on.
1:13:54 Yeah.
1:13:54 Yeah. That was you talked about that flex space across the front and that's why when they were pulling that up I received that email too where somebody
1:14:01 was drawing one of the little brown blue lines everywhere.
1:14:05 Yeah. Do we know? So was that Waldo and his group that drew that or no?
1:14:11 Okay. So that I have a feeling that who was it?
1:14:13 Straight fellow. Right. Okay. So I was gonna say I received it from Jason. So I was gonna [laughter] go throw that out there but Oh, sorry. Since I was here last week,
1:14:22 just for clarification, did we ever get a legal's opinion on the commercial?
1:14:26 We're going to move forward with it and figure that out as we go. But essentially, as far as said at present
1:14:33 moment, continue what which is what these, you know, you all are looking at is um they do not
1:14:41 include an option that takes advantage of the right of way on the north side of the structure where there's currently
1:14:48 the diagonal parking on Miniola. Yeah, there we would have the flexibility to say well what happens if we uh eat into
1:14:56 some of that um because uh you know does that get us does that get us anything?
1:15:02 And if you start doing the math uh you heard Waldo talk about before the magical number of 62 and so the question
1:15:10 is do we get we only have a single bay down on the uh you know on one on the southern side. So do you get one extra
1:15:18 row of parking or not? If you start tapping into that and the answer may be no, the answer may be yes, but that's that's within the realm of possibility of what you could look at.
1:15:30 Yeah. The last thing is the the once I mean we could do we could do funky uh forms and we could do you know some some
1:15:38 weird things but then the the efficiency of the of the building is going to go really low. So instead of having, you
1:15:46 know, 500, $600 per per square per stall, you're going to have, you know, like 700 800 because like, you know, you
1:15:53 begin to have like apartment parking on five stories that instead of having, you know, more efficient way, you begin to
1:16:01 kind of like into your own kind like, you know, that that number between how much uh that's that's another number,
1:16:10 you know, like if you go above three feet floors, you have to have a pump to put the water up there. So, there's some things that we want to kind of like get
1:16:19 in in in a right spot to to be able to kind of like not waste time, not time,
1:16:27 not waste money on on parking spot that's going to, you know, be, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars for for one parking spot. So,
1:16:35 well, I really struggle with that along Seventh Street. I just I've struggled with that as being a
1:16:42 great spot. I mean on Westminac full get it but I agree.
1:16:47 I I just really struggle with putting commercial there. There's nothing going to pull it around that corner. There's nothing going to pull it there. I mean
1:16:56 ultimately if these folks are getting out of the elevator right there that works great for the dentist office and
1:17:04 FUMO and what's the one in between? Um because they have a cap a captive audience. Those people have to walk by
1:17:13 those buildings. I mean, bullets and those other What's the one between Fumo?
1:17:22 [clears throat]
1:17:24 Cosmetic places.
1:17:25 Can That's why I don't do what it is. I don't wear cosmetics.
1:17:28 There's 10 little things. Can I ask like so so I think what I'm hearing is there's enough of an interest among the
1:17:38 city council that there that there be some retail mixed into both options.
1:17:47 Yes.
1:17:48 Because if we present the best that we think and they disagree, are we at a
1:17:56 stalemate and we're just kicking the can? Because like to me, what I'm hoping this committee does is okay, we're we're this is it. We're going with this.
1:18:06 You're bridging the gap.
1:18:07 Yeah. Um and and that's where like I I would prefer 741 spots and call a day.
1:18:14 But I like what Evan is saying, the mix between all three if we present something where we're like, can you get to 620 spots and retail for city hall?
1:18:26 Yeah. When I look at the numbers here, like if you go with it feels like you should be able to get there. Yes.
1:18:32 Of 600 plus at city hall with 20 foot depth on 7th Street, a small chunk of it, which is going to be
1:18:39 probably 16-,800 square feet, right? Just enough to break up the facade.
1:18:44 Yes. And then, you know, that's not really up to us to worry about. Are they leasing it themselves? Are they selling it? That's really for them to decide.
1:18:54 But if it's palatable for them to actually start construction relatively soon,
1:19:01 that's kind of where I lean. I don't know what to do with seventh street.
1:19:06 I I like the one we were just shown and I agree with Todd with just the retail on the seventh. If we could like just
1:19:13 half it and wrap around Minnola instead of with the retail, I don't think we would really lose any parking spots and it would So you're saying like right around that
1:19:22 corner you're kind of Yeah.
1:19:24 both both sides of the corner. I want to I want to clarify from a council perspective hearing them talk about uh
1:19:31 some of these issues. The they don't want more retail to have more retail. They want the retail to camouflage.
1:19:39 Yes. Yes, the parking deck because the parking deck if it's naked tends to deaden people's willingness to walk to
1:19:46 the next shop. It already exists. So, it's not about getting more retail. It's about uh camouflaging it so that people
1:19:54 are like, "Oh, I'm still interested." In the same way that people stop walking on the other side of this building because of the two suburban buildings right
1:20:01 behind us. So, that's that's the motivation. That's why if you come with nothing but a parking garage that has
1:20:08 nothing lining it, my guess is they're going to say, "Well, we're going to want something different." Yeah. In my own, that's my guess just based upon what they've said.
1:20:16 The only thing I don't want is I don't want a business that went out of business. And yes, it breaks it up, but
1:20:24 nobody's occupying it. So, like that's right. you know, the the the the incubators you guys have talked about, like things that I think relatively easy to set up and prosper. Yeah.
1:20:35 Um or the mix of, you know, attorneys and, you know, whatever else. Um but that's that's kind of what I'm
1:20:43 getting. And I guess I didn't realize how strong the sentiment for that is among some of the council. Sure.
1:20:54 Yeah. The the other thing that I would just want to you know say again is that this this is actually taking um all the
1:21:04 available space. So you know if we do you know piles in the middle because like as soon as we
1:21:14 know use some some piles on on the edge here you know there is structural things that you know we don't want to be close there because you know we could heat the
1:21:22 actual uh foundation of the of the of the city hall. So, you know, moving the
1:21:30 [clears throat] and and putting the the structure in the middle here, you know, that's the there's more,
1:21:39 you know, not difficult to see in a bad way, but it's going to be more this is really really tight. So this is
1:21:46 something that we put out there to kind of like you know make sure that you know we're covering all the the the space and
1:21:53 as an ABN but you know there there's some restraints to you know there's an actual super lot you know it's going to
1:22:00 be five floors right on the face of the sidewalk. Uh there's going to be five floors going all the way to this sidewalk to here. Uh you know there's
1:22:08 going to be almost you know we going to get really really close to the to the face there. It's not impossible. We just want to make sure, you know, like like
1:22:17 some was saying, you know, like if you guys want to have a little bit more like a step in between that sidewalk and then
1:22:24 make it a little bit more easy for the view and not have a lot of shadows and make it, you know, really cold in winter
1:22:31 and and stuff like that. You know, there's some stuff that that have to be contemplated, too.
1:22:38 Can you go to number two on that one on the on the city hall?
1:22:50 This is a few spots. This is only vetting out at 466.
1:22:57 Well, see, you're not 62 feet off of it.
1:23:00 Cuz I number one, I think that that is literally lot line to lot.
1:23:06 I think that's Yeah, that's not responsible. No, I I I understand what you're saying and I don't think that would be the consensus
1:23:14 even if it is the sentiment of some of us because do do you guys feel
1:23:24 like what Todd was suggesting on seventh the wrapping around of some commercial
1:23:31 on those end caps? Should we ask them to try to get more spots on seventh and
1:23:39 figure out that retail spot wrapping around it would be one that you guys support? What's the purpose of having two entrances?
1:23:48 the it's more for fire purposes like depending on the
1:23:54 area we may have to be by law by you know IPC international
1:24:01 building code everything we have to provide two entrances when the area is more than I think 750 square feet and 50
1:24:11 people so that's why we have to to include two entrances for the people to move and the other things to
1:24:20 move the parts a little bit more fluidly. That kind of like helps to to have you know make it we have to close seven you know they can use a solo or
1:24:29 the other way around and there was like one of those if I'm not mistaken we heard that. So that's
1:24:37 why we included two. It's on all of them. They're on. Sorry.
1:24:42 Can you go to number three then because I'm having Oh, so it is there.
1:24:50 That's all I need to see.
1:24:52 So I Yeah, we tried to put it on the corners uh just to get away from uh from
1:24:59 the ride at the intersection so you are more comfortable. you know, if you say it's not going to be if you're waiting
1:25:07 for someone to enter and you're right here, you have only two cars online to get into it. So, it could be,
1:25:16 you know, it's a little nicer, easier to to um drive around.
1:25:22 So, it's a little better traffic control and flow. Yes.
1:25:25 So, on number two, I would just move that in. Instead of being 40 ft deep, move it into 20 ft deep. Making those smaller.
1:25:34 Making that depth a little bit smaller. So you can make them. It's okay. No.
1:25:41 Yeah. I don't see any use in purpose on that one. I'm talking about number two. Shorten that depth from 40 feet to 20.
1:25:51 you'd add, you know, you'd add a little bit of a parking there, but um then you could make it smaller shops rather than 40 ft's pretty deep.
1:26:03 Yeah, I don't think it's it needs to be 40.
1:26:11 That's my comments. I don't know whether everybody else agrees with me or not, but that's what I would say. [laughter] Um I mean, I don't hate number two.
1:26:21 I just my only comment would be to move it in.
1:26:25 You know, if there was a little bit of wiggle room where it needed to be expanded or made smaller or whatever, but the nice part is you keep all your
1:26:31 water retention on there. It does keep that on the west side available for
1:26:38 something else in the future, whatever city needed to do with it. So, so do you guys want to talk about seventh first?
1:26:47 between these three, pick the one that is our consensus and then give them notes. You have I think it's easier to talk about city
1:26:54 hall first. I think would be more productive to say, okay, let's narrow down.
1:26:59 My vote is move away from that property line is is too much the 741 to be but
1:27:06 with city hall. But I'm more attracted to the fact that I think it's fantastic to lose this bathroom idea that we currently have and move into the garage.
1:27:18 But I'm I don't know if I'm on board with the whole retail or commercial professional. I say moving the bathroom,
1:27:25 flipping the thing, moving a little bit away from city hall, and still keeping within the 500 plus spots would be my goal for city hall.
1:27:33 Are we thinking we'll get better bathrooms if we move them? get worse. I think 100%. Yes. Okay.
1:27:42 City that that lit a lot.
1:27:44 I mean, if you've been in the bathrooms at say Victory Point, they're actually nice. There are newer facilities. The bathrooms that we currently are there
1:27:52 now are 30, 50, who knows how old they are. I've actually never even been in it because every time Seventh Street.
1:27:59 Yeah, it's about 20 years old. Yeah.
1:28:01 But being visionaries, I think it would be smart and free that property back to the city. But I would move elevators and
1:28:08 to the middle so he aligns with the pity. Yes, we pulled. So with city hall, we only would want the 20 foot
1:28:16 depth on the commercial that he has in option three on that. Yes.
1:28:23 On the west side.
1:28:27 And and a portion of that's going to be much nicer restrooms.
1:28:31 And Evan, you were than the pre-stress they have now. You were calling for the same thing, moving the restrooms and opening up that lot.
1:28:39 Right. Originally, I was thinking we could take you take this lot like it has I think an option three where he moved it further. The garage expanded to the
1:28:47 east as well which allowed for additional that got us up to that 522. If you expand to the
1:28:54 east, you lose that commercial that's on Dodto.
1:28:58 Yes. you pull the entire garage to the south which opens up that front lane um where that current parking is now.
1:29:08 Yes.
1:29:08 Um I think is the way to do it. And then you maximize water retention on what you have left either in a slight little
1:29:17 swale along the Sodto. Um and then also utilizing what little narrow strip you're going to have to the east as well
1:29:24 on the old library property. Do you think keeping on the side of the street will make life a little easier too with the tide ends and everything? No, I'm sorry. The the the storm water.
1:29:34 Yeah.
1:29:34 Not necessarily because everything would be piped. It would be nothing for them to tear the road up, run the pipe over, and you would do a whole retention area.
1:29:42 No, come on. Nothing.
1:29:45 Nothing to tear up and put in a whole new storm water system.
1:29:49 No, it's not a whole new storm water system. So the only thing you're running is a 12 in piece of blue PVC pipe that's used for storm water everywhere. The
1:29:56 city wouldn't be doing the work. So it wouldn't take forever to be a third party private contractor. So the road shutdowns would be 3 to 5 days max for
1:30:04 them to install that storm water. If we were to go that route and have to cross the road to go. So you don't know what's in there and what you're having to cross through.
1:30:13 There's already storm water in there and it may not be able to go through there.
1:30:16 I mean, you're making a lot of There's a lot of stuff under you. It's called jack and boring and you can go right under the street actually without even touching the street.
1:30:24 Depending on how big the storm water is under there, you may have utility. You're not understanding the way jack and bore works. So, you
1:30:32 essentially are drilling a hole that's twice the size of what you need. So, 16inch pipe, 32in hole, you're going underneath there and then they can move
1:30:40 it by using they use ground penetrating radar. I 100% understand it. What I'm telling you is that if there are 5 foot
1:30:48 storm water apparatus through there or the storm drain is already running on the street, right? You're not going to be able to go under it.
1:30:55 I totally understand that and you're not necessarily going to be able to go over it. But even taking a step back from that, that's not really our concern for how they do it, right?
1:31:05 I I mean, they can figure it out. I think it seems like you guys are pretty much in lock step.
1:31:12 Yeah. are like how do you guys feel about that that plan?
1:31:16 Okay, I would say yes because what okay the storm water may or may not have to
1:31:23 be moved but by moving this structure south as compared to number one that does allow for a nice green space between parking structure and city hall.
1:31:35 You know, it may be only 15 or 20 ft wide, but it's grass. Yeah. Gives you something.
1:31:41 That become that can become a very nice park with trees and benches for the staff to have lunch at.
1:31:49 I think that like version three seems to meet most of our concerns because you can modify it. And how do you guys feel?
1:31:58 Uh I like the three basically how it is except with the elevators moved to the center. Yeah. Yeah.
1:32:05 You think the elevator should not be moved to the center? I think it should.
1:32:07 Yes. I think we're on that same So, could you go back to site three again, please?
1:32:13 Go back to three and lose the soda. Move to the middle.
1:32:16 Yeah. So, that commercial Yeah. The commercial on the south would go away. A few feet.
1:32:23 I don't mind it, but if it's a consensus, Well, yeah. Yeah, because you know I you need to move everything down
1:32:30 retail like a public library something like that I think for because we're losing the library so I have been speaking
1:32:38 you don't have any square footage for yes I was about to say that at 3500 square that 3500 feet is what you need at minimum for like a kids library
1:32:47 just to re it doesn't matter what it is just there's space there for something we let them envision or they figure it
1:32:54 out or really typically the market decides, right?
1:32:58 But but do you guys feel okay with that site three? We're modifying it, you know, somewhat. [snorts] I because do we need a motion?
1:33:09 No, I don't think so.
1:33:10 No. So, if we reach consensus, we're okay. So our our scope then for city hall would be the 20 foot depth on 7th.
1:33:19 The elevators moved to the center with the speed deck being the ramp section being on the south side of the building
1:33:27 that and then moving the building south as well off of city hall
1:33:34 and that creates the green space. It moves the elevator to the center.
1:33:39 I like that idea because it ties everything together. We already have that green space to the north.
1:33:44 Like it doesn't make sense to break it to have a little green space to the south. Rather, let's have a bigger connected. I mean, I'm sad about losing the the retail, but I think
1:33:52 Well, on three, did that also include going from or lessening the depth of the retail?
1:34:00 No, because it was already right there.
1:34:03 Yeah, that was already 20 ft deep on seventh street. So then the tap the question back to Waldo would be we by
1:34:11 moving it further south, does that give us an opportunity to potentially put in um another row in there somehow as well?
1:34:22 Because when I look at it now, you know, maybe the maybe the area along Dodto becomes a drive lane and then you're
1:34:30 able to go back to back potentially. I I mean they'll have to engineer it and really see if that would work. But but that gives you the opportunity for
1:34:39 as you move down you can expand a little bit. You might be able to get that extra row of parking at night, which is a big deal when you're going up four stories
1:34:46 because then you can probably get into that 600 range [snorts] on three.
1:34:50 And that means like to me everybody's on three, which is important. Yeah. And as far as the library goes, if you don't
1:34:59 meet the water retention on the east end, you can put the library back. Okay.
1:35:07 Yeah, I see. I don't know if there's enough. East or west? Where are we going?
1:35:10 That would be the east that back.
1:35:16 It sounds like we're That's our consensus. The charge. The only thing I would ask them is to study and see once
1:35:24 they move that building to the south to see if they could keep retention all on that site. I mean, I don't want I get that y'all want to move it across the street.
1:35:33 No, no, I'm 100%. If we can keep retention on site, lose those.
1:35:37 I would do as much as we could to keep retention on site. That's my only qualm about the whole thing is moving attention across the street.
1:35:46 I think we all agree with that because like then that provides more access across the street for whatever like it's green space they can envision.
1:35:54 But if we're having actual conversations about retail, that's a great little retail site.
1:36:00 How many if how many spots are there currently in that little spot? 20.
1:36:04 You mean where we took down the retail place to put it in the parking lot?
1:36:07 Correct. [laughter] You want to be sure you take out the bathroom and we get four more spots or whatever it may be.
1:36:13 You take out the bathroom, you sell the whole thing and you let somebody put in retail there that now wraps that corner and works as a tornado shelter.
1:36:24 I think it's all pre-stressed concrete. Okay.
1:36:28 So considering the question, we could certainly you know test some other things but like like I was saying you
1:36:35 know before and this is another one of the concept before you know like one of our exercises to verify you know the
1:36:42 best scenario once we include another row we will have to include another driveway and then so that will make it
1:36:50 sort of like a little double loaded um driveway but it's going to be a single loaded and you know your your efficiency is going to go down.
1:37:00 The other thing that I was going to point out, I think that if we could kind of like glance over the the parking study and um I I see, you know,
1:37:09 sometimes we have clients that, you know, they're once we show them a house and they they're kind of like drinking
1:37:16 off like the doororknob and they kind of like let the doororknob go. uh for some reason, you know, when we're talking
1:37:23 about structural and and things are going to last maybe longer than us, we kind of like try to get that idea of
1:37:31 like, okay, what is the most important thing? And then because I I think, you know, a little bit like, oh, what type of commercial is going to be there or,
1:37:40 you know, the amount of parking is more important than other ones. I think you know by trying to get that for like um
1:37:49 or to get the decision you know whatever you guys want to be we're going to provide it but just try to think about
1:37:57 like a little bit of like okay where where is this going to go you know 50 40 years from now what what will
1:38:05 happen you know if we put you know here this there and so in a way you know
1:38:12 like we we can provide it But you know those those decisions are are
1:38:20 more like you know how can I say it
1:38:26 you guys have a a big responsibility I get but at the same time you know thinking of like what about that future
1:38:34 and what about like the scope that we're trying to get into. Okay, we're agreeing on the amount of parking spots and and
1:38:43 words that that commercial located not mostly on, you know, like how
1:38:49 all those details. So, but yeah, we could provide whatever you guys want.
1:38:54 So, long story short, I can live with three if we can try to keep the strong water on.
1:38:59 I agree with So, do do you need us to give that to you one more time, Waldo?
1:39:03 So this is what happened here on this one on third and then have you take the commercial area down out of
1:39:12 south and then the ramp and then have the elevator on the more closer to the
1:39:19 actual entrance of the of the signal entrance exit. So,
1:39:27 and then moving it south as well, but then also as you move the structure south,
1:39:34 explore opportunities to be able to get that additional row of parking if you could because on the
1:39:42 south side on the Dotto side, you don't necessarily need to park up against the exterior of the structure. You could do your double parking that way as well. or
1:39:52 that center like drive lane that you have now that's on that first floor.
1:39:56 Those could be facing in against each other and then maybe you have parallel parking along the Dodto side.
1:40:05 Everybody felt good about that I think though, right?
1:40:07 Uh to in order to keep the storm water retention on this side is north a possibility since we're moving everything south.
1:40:19 There's really nothing grade. Everything comes to the south. So, our storm is probably going to have to stay kind of where he has it now.
1:40:27 And then we might be able to use a little bit of storm along seventh as well where you just do a natural you just do a natural ditch swale.
1:40:34 That's what I'm saying. So, it would be but on south seven or north seven south of on the south side on the sodto side
1:40:42 because the pography is kind of slopes down. Yeah. Okay, keeping everything on the on this side of seven would be
1:40:49 Are there tanks holding water underneath the existing? They'll go away.
1:40:55 Or they could be moved to that dirt south of this structure. I'm not a water engineer.
1:41:03 It's and it's not it's not we just let them know priority would be to keep it together, right? If possible. But I'm
1:41:10 saying if we can keep all water on site, we keep all water on that site. I'm happy with this.
1:41:18 What if you Okay, here's a thought. You put if you were able to reuse said underground water retention could
1:41:25 potentially just go into the green space in front of city hall on 7th as well.
1:41:32 I don't think that would float. I don't [laughter] know. Okay. I'm just, you know what I mean?
1:41:39 So, we could maximize the site with keeping our water on site as well.
1:41:45 But I but I appreciate you injecting perspective.
1:41:48 Yes. You know, I throw I throw things out.
1:41:51 It's a great idea. I I worry about the the feasibility. Can I add one? Yes, sir. Yeah.
1:41:58 How does everyone feel about just if we're removing that uh northwest elevator just making that all retail to
1:42:07 the corner along the park area as well?
1:42:11 Yeah, I think that's a great idea. Retail or bathrooms? Yeah, this one.
1:42:18 No, no, that stays. So, where you the other stairwell that you have in the northwest corner? Yeah. No change to either.
1:42:28 Yeah, that would be your commercial.
1:42:29 That would be your restrooms or commercial space, whatever that may be. Yeah. Right.
1:42:33 I like that too because it's kind of facing the green space somewhat.
1:42:38 When you go to the segment
1:42:52 with the Okay. Chief, you were gonna say something. Sorry.
1:42:57 Yeah. I I would just keep in mind that if if those are going to be restrooms, you'll only have the from the outer side
1:43:05 of the structure as your your entrances to those restrooms because you don't want to have them that
1:43:12 close to the entrance and exit to the uh to the structure where vehicles are going.
1:43:19 Yeah. I mean, the restrooms could be at the south end of the building. I mean, it's for once we get into the weeds of drawing and engineering this to figure out where those may lay.
1:43:29 I'm going to respectfully disagree that that green space is where we hold a lot of events.
1:43:34 You want the restrooms close to the event spot, not down at the corner 7th.
1:43:39 Yeah, I don't think that would be No, it's that's just not well he's saying just not on the corner because of the vehicle traffic coming in and
1:43:47 there's a lot of pedestrian anywhere in the green area.
1:43:52 Yeah. Again, that's like what the be on the north side entrance is right on the south side. You
1:44:00 don't want to unless you're going to have windows looking out at the city because
1:44:10 remember it just looks like this giant you shouldn't want to do.
1:44:17 I don't think there's an adequate understanding what city hall park is.
1:44:22 If you go to any nice you don't have dead space overlook you have the opportunity to see humans okay
1:44:31 and humans can see down on you when you don't have that feel comfortable especially ever being
1:44:39 right now I think there's an underestimation on on most parts that can be a really great small intimate
1:44:47 space that's going to be activated like you you know right now nobody use because it's not a cool space to hang out. Which ones? The city hall park.
1:44:55 City Hall Park. It's there on weekends. On weekend.
1:44:59 On weekends. Yeah. That I'm talking about every single day.
1:45:04 A lot of the council chairs not to fund that. Well, they had they had a good idea.
1:45:10 I thought it was a damn good idea with all the pavilion and the stage and the whole thing. What I'm saying is you we you don't have to
1:45:19 that's that's the act that's the use of the park itself to engage the park. It has to be a place where people want to hang out and people want to hang out in
1:45:28 urban spaces and what we would otherwise call an outdoor room. Outdoor room, okay, is well defined spatially, which a parking garage could do. The problem
1:45:37 with parking garage is it's a dead facade. Humans bore easily. If I'm gonna it's so the same thing with the the mural that went up across the street.
1:45:46 Did that improve that area dramatically? Dramatically. It is a much more pleasant. I'm willing to walk
1:45:53 around, you know, there more likely to walk because of that that mural. Now, if I replace that mural with people, it's even stronger.
1:46:02 Okay. And that's that's what I'm getting at is imagine what our our most important small pocket park in the downtown. You know, we're talking about
1:46:10 doing a pocket part on on Tot. We already have a part. You just need to engage it. The cheapest way to do that
1:46:16 would be to in front the the that part just for that that small space. I mean,
1:46:23 it's not even uh remember it. We've [clears throat] got what a boiler room and everything right here. It's really just about this much space right in
1:46:31 there if that has an active frontage. So Nathan, what if we wrap that area that you just pointed out to the side and
1:46:39 make the entrance either both from the sodto or seven but on the south side and the soda instead of the north side entrance.
1:46:48 See that makes sense.
1:46:52 You're calling we're calling it a park this [music] but we're using it as a performance area and you're making that's where the band sets up. That's
1:47:01 where the stage goes. It's where the little girls dance. It's where we have the Christmas tree. We're not using it as a family park.
1:47:09 So, well, they'll use an event center.
1:47:12 Well, I what I think about is I I either bought your coffee or I bought your wine, right?
1:47:19 And I want to go hang out someplace. Nobody is going to that space, right?
1:47:25 If it's enclosed, it would Okay, you're going to come up.
1:47:28 Yes. I think she I think she's got a good idea.
1:47:31 I I just think we need to wrap right there. Especially since he brought up the entrance can be that close to the to the you know whatever space and make
1:47:40 entrances either both on the sodo or seven and the soda. Yes.
1:47:45 And then use be wise about using that corner to kind of engage that part. Right.
1:47:50 So the cheat sheet for a second if you don't mind. Yeah. So the second entry the other entrance on seven we would
1:47:57 just want to move down further. So once again I'm trying to counterbalance it with what we call you
1:48:05 know sort of a planners view of how is this space is going to operate beyond the functionality providing parking.
1:48:12 Yeah we can cover the park. Then the question my next thing is this is our beachfront like if you go to the you always want beachfront property. Where's
1:48:20 the most available property? It's going to be overlooking this space right Yeah.
1:48:24 Okay. Now, where's the second most important space? Okay. It's on this side. Yes.
1:48:28 So, if you could didn't do anything, you just wouldn't do anything on this side.
1:48:32 You'd rather do it here. Okay. But, um, this is this is important. Seven is an important street for us because it's taking us to the lake. Dodto is the next
1:48:42 most important, but it's not that important in the big scheme of things.
1:48:46 Um, um, uh, this is not important. What faces the city hall, we don't need better views. Most people open their window, you know, open their their
1:48:55 blinds. Okay. Um, and then this side is not uh very important either. So, that's why I' I've been talking a lot about
1:49:02 this is because I'm envisioning if I'm sitting right here, I want to see I'd love to see a balcony, okay, coming out
1:49:10 over over the park if I could. So, that that that's that's why I'm talking more than I should. This could be really
1:49:18 spectacular right there. Well, then that fits even more if we're able to figure out a way to move the bathrooms and use
1:49:26 that, you know, corner that's right across.
1:49:30 Yeah. So, the bathrooms just move further down seventh. Yes. Right. On seven. That's fine. Yeah.
1:49:35 That's like at the very end of the seventh.
1:49:39 Yeah. So, you're So, you're allowing some retail. Yeah. You're allowed.
1:49:44 And that would be for for an uptight person like me, that's fine.
1:49:48 Yeah. It's just people This doesn't create a gorgeous outdoor room.
1:49:53 Okay. This is I'm getting I'm I'm going to be rewarded once I get up here.
1:49:57 Yeah. Okay. And that's where this then I feel like, oh man, I'm downtown.
1:50:01 I mean, this seems like it meets a lot of our concerns.
1:50:08 Now, did you get that, Waldo?
1:50:12 Now, we're moving to a little bit. I I got a little bit of it. I I'm going to provide these PDFs and then it would be great if you guys
1:50:20 could actually, you know, mark it and then have like a real direction of like where was the, you know, the the main
1:50:29 points and all that. So we don't, you know, have other interpretations of what may have been said. I kind of like grab
1:50:36 what you guys were saying about the the parking area, how this corner here is more important to the park, the park and
1:50:45 moving it to the south is going to provide a little bit more for like that prime area for you know commercial or like someone said, you know, like the
1:50:53 the beach front and all that. So, but the best thing would be like if all you guys could like actually write it down
1:51:01 on the on the paper and then we could have Yes. like a way clear direction.
1:51:07 Waldo, if you forward the PDF you're showing us to me, I can get it to the committee members
1:51:15 and then you all can decide who's going to draw it up.
1:51:18 I think we Yeah, because I think we've got it all written down on my notes. Yeah. 20 foot debug commercial.
1:51:25 Move south, expand to the east, move the ramp to the south, center elevator, and maximize parking.
1:51:34 Yeah.
1:51:35 And I think the linear So Evan, you're going to draw you're going to print it out and draw something that Waldo can then see.
1:51:41 And Evan, I think the wid the depth stays the same. The width can stay the same. We just got to, you know, bring it to the corner if everybody is in
1:51:49 agreement to rep. And then we also want to move the entrance on Seventh Street further south as well, right? Yes.
1:51:57 I think we're going to have to if we move the slope part, we're probably going to have to move the entrance and then the bathrooms are sliding down.
1:52:04 That would be my assumption is that if we're moving that, that slope has to flip-flop 180.
1:52:10 So, you're moving the entrance closer to the The great thing about that is it it gives us raft retail,
1:52:18 which feeds into the park. But then I think the green space between city hall and the garage becomes even more important
1:52:26 because now it is inviting to kind of like take that walk maybe cut through there because you can walk around city hall and then put you back up to the north
1:52:34 and he also solves the problem of not having the entrance right by the back. Yes.
1:52:43 Okay. I just send it to you.
1:52:46 Waldo, I just I just wanted to ask Waldo seeing he's been very integral and intricate with as
1:52:54 many of these concept designs as possible. Um, by moving that entrance on Seventh Street further south,
1:53:03 but still taking into account that we want to flip where the ramp is, is that even possible?
1:53:12 I think we could be able to do it. You know, it's not going to be as fluid. You know, you have to kind of like drive and
1:53:20 then have a left then move up to the second floor on the ramp. It's not impossible, but it's not, you know, it's it's not really comfortable either.
1:53:31 I'm just wondering if that means that the entrance onto basically loops around the whole
1:53:41 structure before it gets to the ramp then.
1:53:44 Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. One of them will have to look around like either we put the entrance to here like the the people
1:53:51 from seven will have to drive all the way to here or if we have the entrance through the west and going up and then
1:54:00 the people from the soda will have to wrap around and then go up here. I don't really care.
1:54:05 Yeah, to go from one end to the other.
1:54:13 Okay. So, I think we've got great consensus on that site. Now, moving on to seventh.
1:54:23 All right.
1:54:25 Throw out ideas. My idea or my charge would be we've got to get the number up above 470.
1:54:33 Yeah. I would like to see this design move that retail to wrap around the corner um instead of all just on one
1:54:41 side. half of it on minola, half of it on seven. Uh, and then just figure out a way to maximize the parking.
1:54:49 So, do we gain parking or lose parking?
1:54:54 It depends on if we deal with time spots.
1:54:57 But, but Jordan, if we keep the same size he has, but just move to ref. You don't gain or lose at this point, right? You should be in that.
1:55:06 Well, you're going to lose a couple spots on Minnola, but you should be able to gain, but you gain on seven. So, uh, do you really?
1:55:13 Yes. The way that we proposing it would Yeah, it's a 20 foot deep.
1:55:18 No, I So, here's my I'll let you go. Okay. Let me just point out one thing.
1:55:24 That may be a possibility. It may not be, but yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say as well because if you wrap that
1:55:33 with the addition, but that's sort of what we already talked about making that flex space across there.
1:55:38 Yes. Right. I mean, if we leave those parts of your beach front once again is looking out this way, but it's also all the other angles of coming in. This is
1:55:47 sort of what we call the back building area, which isn't as important and covered up with uh uh painting art just
1:55:54 like the proposal was suggested. But what happens on the corners especially is more important than the other spaces as far as wrapping is concerned. So do
1:56:03 you feel like so so on seven we can't move retail out
1:56:12 because we don't have any angled parking spots or anything? It kind of has to be there.
1:56:17 Yeah. Yeah. With given our our width parameters. Yes. It it's important to eat into the our garage for that
1:56:27 that portion. What about as we wrap around those angled parking spots? Could we take some of those up and Yes. bring
1:56:35 the retail all the way to Yes. Okay. So, this is outside of the garage.
1:56:41 Okay. We can lose those diagonal slots in favor of a corner building. If you saw the the next block down, you know,
1:56:50 you have the 821 mini old on Patrick Bian.
1:56:53 Yes. Concept. Yes. And that concept purposefully chamfered the corner where it's at an angle like this, you know,
1:57:00 and that's the most important that that's where the beachfront is on that particular new conceptual project, Waldo. It's not there yet.
1:57:09 Yeah.
1:57:11 So, is this plan one for seventh street? No, this is plan. No, this is site one. Site plan one.
1:57:19 Okay. No, that's two. Sorry. Yeah. Okay.
1:57:24 Size one, plan two. And that's the one we're going to try to develop, right? Or grow or make it. Yes.
1:57:31 Try to get maybe 9 foot parking for the upper deck.
1:57:35 That's with the assumption that legally we can do any commercial there. That that's always just a comp.
1:57:42 Well, the good thing about what we're doing in the front of the building is those are parking spots.
1:57:50 Yeah. So there would be no concern about the existing contract. Mhm.
1:57:55 It does not interfere, Jason. The one on the one on Mola, the one on seven street can mess us up. But that could go away.
1:58:03 If that's the problem, we just say, "Okay, there you go. That just goes away." We could present that proposal and if it turns out that it cannot be done
1:58:11 legally, then that's seven. We just Zane, you staying with us.
1:58:15 that this taking this flat space wouldn't mess the contract as much. If
1:58:22 seven goes away like he's showing now, if we have the opportunity, then seven goes back.
1:58:28 Is that for that's And if you do that, that gives you a nice big walkway
1:58:36 going along there as well. So you can actually kind of spur that big walkway along the front
1:58:43 that's on seventh the wide trail on seventh and kind of just kind of spur it around run it down the front of that and be done with it.
1:58:52 And I mean that makes sense.
1:58:55 It's just a side the one on seventh for me was Yeah, but we may have to add another layer to this
1:59:04 to get to get to our 4. Oh, to get the height. Yeah. 470. Yeah. So, do you want it to be six stories?
1:59:12 We go 70.
1:59:13 No, because the bed frog got to the 476 with the five once they have time to look at
1:59:23 we can have that even if we can even if we have to go more like do we have this is I mean this is
1:59:30 what we have from from from that. I don't know if there may be like another site or anything, but from our account like right now here it's like closer to 385.
1:59:41 I I agree. I did add 390 395.
1:59:45 So I did add Finrox and it does there seems to be a miscommunication
1:59:52 but I trust that their 476 was correct and I'm reading another floor. Well, no.
2:00:01 Then they have another floor. That's it may be more.
2:00:05 There's no way they're stretching that many seats out or that many far personally. Like I'm okay. I think again
2:00:11 done correctly. One more story doesn't it it may not be a negative if it's visually appealing with um because I do
2:00:20 think we do need to get to that number if possible.
2:00:25 Anything else? So, we've got we've got inc, you know, trying to increase spacing to get to French rocks. We've got wrapping retail around the corner of
2:00:33 Seventh and Minnola. Anything else on this site?
2:00:38 Do would we want to continue that retail the full length of Minnola to the drive lane entrance? So, what I like about
2:00:46 that, because I I don't disagree with you, and I liked Todd's suggestion last week about
2:00:53 does it have to be retail that's an actual building, or could it be some mixed use of carts? It So, for instance,
2:01:02 could Jordan have a cart right there, too? That's not an actual building, but a what do you call those?
2:01:12 A flex.
2:01:13 It was the cottage. Could we bring in some of the cottage industry to be along their popups? The covert area, right?
2:01:21 It's like the little things you see like when you go to the outlet malls, all the stuff.
2:01:24 Well, does that create I mean, not that correct. Yeah, but essentially giving people the opportunity to say, "Okay, I want to start my business and move their
2:01:32 way up." I mean, when we look at Kosinostra, right? Yeah, they started off in Patrick's, you know,
2:01:40 little building and they continue to want to take over the whole thing. Those homegrown stories are fantastic.
2:01:46 Does that visually like do those type of carts, even if they're somewhat permanent, does that create the appeal that you're the different considerations here?
2:01:57 Number one is you've got um the issue of doing things incrementally is always a good idea. Okay. So then you're
2:02:05 thinking, okay, is there what we're doing would prevent somebody from doing something different in the future. And so let's just assume Evan said you said
2:02:15 why don't we just bring that all the way down here. Okay. Well, what I'm thinking about is not just the active frontages.
2:02:21 Um I'm thinking about how do I get shade from the sun and shelter from the rain.
2:02:27 Okay. And and the council has made it clear they want to support the private sector. you know, assume this is a private building. The private sector
2:02:34 coming in and providing uh more deeper awnings or g what we call galleries, which is essentially saying there's a
2:02:42 porch on the second floor that comes over that comes over to the edge of the walkway.
2:02:48 All right. So that so I'm thinking about where does somebody walk if they're on mini and they're going from here to here. And so that's what I'm thinking
2:02:56 about with the fronts. Now, um so yeah, but if you want to do the cart thing, you You know, that works great, too. It
2:03:03 just I don't feel strong. It's just, you know, humans are better than a lot.
2:03:08 I kind of like it's almost like broken up. It's the corner half is green and then just covered space across it that can be used
2:03:17 as public seating or permitted uh through the city for food trucks or something like that.
2:03:24 Five stories tall or two stories tall. Excuse me. the little green box there.
2:03:30 I was thinking just going thinking one or two stories. I like what he's saying because what he's saying is theoretically you could have a
2:03:38 storefront underneath go up another story and create a one-bedroom apartment or you know the way that people usually uh react to
2:03:48 it is they don't need you to go up five stories because you're usually not look you can't really see much right and sometimes you don't want to see what's
2:03:56 going on but in two story you know just think about when you go visit Europe or Italy for wine or whatever you know it's that
2:04:03 that two story is really important. The third story is less important that it's meaningless. So it becomes it's less important. So sometime people who are
2:04:12 super hyper sensitive to this, they will require the building to step back some.
2:04:17 Okay. After the second story because then they're barely even noticing.
2:04:23 Some of what we're talking about though is South Beach S2 where you're talking about that awning that comes out to the edge of the sidewalk. Parking is right
2:04:31 there. Um, so you wouldn't be able to see the building unless you were on the other side.
2:04:36 At one time we were talking about balconies to look at things 100%. Yeah.
2:04:40 If if that green box was only two stories tall, you could still do balcony.
2:04:45 You've got a rooftop automatically that you can put awnings and stuff and throw shade down, but then gives you the balcony is the 10 to 20 foot rooftop up there.
2:04:56 And I think like I see all of those are things that once we know the final cost They can either be added, you know, like
2:05:04 I think it's a it's a blank slate. You can That's the nice part about this not being part of the garage is that they can do it however they want. They can do
2:05:12 it in pieces. They can say, "Yes, we want to do this or we want to have part of it retail, part of it flex face. So,
2:05:19 how do we present that to Waldo?" So, he understands it to build some sort of plus you stay within the gallibility.
2:05:31 You could say, well, can you make it flexible enough for us to do, you know, something add to it in the future or
2:05:39 have something adjacent to it? Just say we want to retain our flexibility to change it over time
2:05:46 all the way to the entry. Does anybody disagree with having covered all the way along West Minola to the edge of the
2:05:54 road, getting rid of all of those parking spaces, so that entire thing would have at least an awning and some type of either building or something against the garage?
2:06:03 I I I'm a big I we just went to Bolognia, nothing city. They're not on the ocean.
2:06:10 They knew they weren't Milan. They weren't the city of fashion. So they passed way way back when passed an edict
2:06:17 beat it where everything had to be covered. Every business had to build a portico. And so what they've done is you
2:06:24 can walk miles in 99° heat and not feel like you're walking outside and it becomes absolutely beautiful, stunning
2:06:34 and you're always looking up because they're ornate. You know they become part of the draw too. So I I give them
2:06:42 the Let's give council the flexibility to say this is a flex space with an awning that goes out. Parking all that is gone.
2:06:52 Angled parking is gone and we're going to use all the way to the edge of Westminola. And I mean
2:06:59 at that point the sidewalk actually cuts at the end of if he gets rid of his Google Earth there, right?
2:07:06 Image.
2:07:08 Well, okay. You you uh move. Yeah, there you go. No, no, like pull that out all together. And what's that Google Earth that's on the left of the sketch?
2:07:18 This all these are photos that I took. Yeah, you pull that 360. Yeah. Turn turn 180 degrees.
2:07:30 See, at that point, the sidewalk actually takes a 45 and goes up flush to the street.
2:07:35 Right. So that that's a perfect example of if you take that space it gets pushed into for future use. You get rid of the
2:07:42 45s that sidewalk just continues the rest of the way as it's further down.
2:07:48 Pedestrian actually better it depends on the engineering question.
2:08:01 There's so much room there. You got 20 foot of parking. So let's just say it's going to be 10T and then you're going to have 10T of the
2:08:08 parking already and then another 10T the shade in the rain protection actual parking that would be very
2:08:16 or the balcony that we put out for structural like what you actually I think you did a blade on the front of your building can you a metal just a metal blade that stands
2:08:24 out and it has the metal canal lever that's very cost effective you know what I mean because then you create that rain protection without this
2:08:31 awning look it just you you use the space effectively, too.
2:08:36 And when we were talking about it last week, I had that conversation with Bill about his corrugated metal that comes all the way out and we talked about the
2:08:45 different heights and all that. So, we did talk about it, but we talked about kind of mirroring what he's got or whoever. We built out of steel, but all
2:08:53 it was it was the the steel trusses just came out far enough to create the the shade and red protection and the balcony that we talked about about water.
2:09:04 Yeah. On what I'm what I'm building right now. It's not even it's like 4 foot.
2:09:08 What I'm building right now, we're doing 15t canopies, but you can go seven feet just attached to the building with the
2:09:16 canal lever going up vertically or up 45 to a height above that. allows you to support the weight of that without
2:09:24 needing like what you're saying with the structural steel of the building extending out. It's not necessary. You can actually just pin it to the building
2:09:32 and that creates a visual like it it is it's gratifying. You're happy for the shade. It also could be different colors or whatever, you know.
2:09:40 Yeah. Sounds like Oldtown Car. So, you're going to have to share your photos of Bolognia. Oh gosh, it was
2:09:48 Yeah, we went We went expecting nothing and walked away being one of our favorites.
2:09:56 Go ahead, Waldo.
2:09:58 Yeah. So, this is this is actually facing north. So, the sun is going to could do a little bit of, you know, the
2:10:05 the the summer sun is the one that you're going to feel a little more on the evenings and on the mornings and on
2:10:14 the winter when you need it. the kind of like that that that prying face that you kind of like want to get that heat from.
2:10:22 But you know, like you're going to have some of that shade to the the actual building is going to give you some
2:10:28 shades on during the day on the on September in in the dead of walk come walk around here, Waldo.
2:10:38 Yeah. [laughter] No. And the rain, right?
2:10:41 The rain is the rain is a bigger thing for me than the I I can handle the sun, but that rain then you're so we need rain.
2:10:50 Oh yeah, the rain too. And it's a good point too, you know, thinking about, you know, having having that because as soon as someone is walking, it's going to
2:10:58 give you a little bit more of like a a welcoming facade, you know, that is is embracing
2:11:05 the the walker. It's not only kind of like being blank and just giving it the, you know, this a commerce. And you know,
2:11:13 if you don't if you're not here to buy, don't get here. But it's a little bit more welcome. Yeah. I'm not suggesting this.
2:11:21 Let's do it.
2:11:22 But I mean, it was miles and miles and miles of covered there. Yes. Absolutely amazing.
2:11:30 And how old is that city?
2:11:32 Couple years older than Claremont, but but you know, closer than you think. So, are you guys able to make that into a flex space across the front so that we don't have to name what it is?
2:11:44 Yeah, the the second floor to being commercial, I'm sorry, not commercial,
2:11:52 residential, that's really, you know, common on a lot of places too.
2:11:58 You know, there's a a possibility of having commercial down is that's that's not a problem at all.
2:12:05 You know, you may have we may have to have, you know, some hallways. Think about some stairs on both sides depending on how
2:12:13 much, you know, if it's an apartment or is this something that someone's going to buy and they're going to be able to live there, you know, stuff like that
2:12:21 that may, you know, require some somehow.
2:12:29 The other thing is the the tree right here in the middle.
2:12:33 That tree is really big, too. So, we'll have to, you know, take that tree out if we want to go all the way to the corner.
2:12:41 Yeah.
2:12:42 Do we want to go all the way down? Keep the tree.
2:12:44 Yes. And no. There. Here's why I say this. Like, because I've been in parking garages that have that like commercials all the way and you have a lot of pedestrian activity. When you're leaving
2:12:52 the garage, you really have poor visibility. And that is my main concern.
2:12:57 So, if we could extend it as much as possible while keeping good visibility while entering and exiting the garage or
2:13:04 if there's some some cheap technology we can add like mirrors.
2:13:08 I I'm with Anna. I don't know if I'm in favor of the whole length of minola. I think we could cut a little short and
2:13:15 wrap around seven just a bit to create that beach front. Uh and on the renderings it would be very nice to do a
2:13:24 proposal where you can see okay activity with with vendors or cards something that that shows it beautifully.
2:13:32 I think we need it's f it's almost 5:30 but I think we have to have the discussion are we talking ground floor
2:13:39 only which I'm okay I don't think it needs to go to to to second level um of uh any commercial retailer. I don't
2:13:49 know. I like that going two stories and then and I don't know if this would affect the visibility, but just uh like
2:13:57 a awning like that's as deep that 20 ft deep that goes until the uh entrance uh
2:14:04 that's just covered. It could be used for like outdoor seating, but then also like permitted areas for food trucks or
2:14:11 something like that. In the meantime, I I would think one floor but 15t tall.
2:14:22 So you have like a 12 12 to 13 foot clear height inside very clear height and gaps for food
2:14:29 trucks or popups. But yeah, if we just create one wall in front of another wall, it's just that but if if the
2:14:37 extension is a bit here and a bit there and break it up so there's texture to it. Waldo, can you go to um I guess we
2:14:44 would really want to see uh plan one for site one
2:14:53 because Jordan, another thing that Minola does when you create that flex space, it solves the legality concerns
2:15:03 with using that parking lot other than parking because we're using city property already as the flat space. So,
2:15:11 which brings the concern of wrapping around seven may create a problem. So, maybe we need to stay Minnola only
2:15:19 and we could go with what Anna said and not block that entrance on Minnola. So, don't take don't take the tree down.
2:15:26 Don't go all the way, but create some covered area right there.
2:15:30 Yeah. So, it would stop at the tree and then after the tree would be green space. The sidewalk would still be moved up to the road. So as you leave that
2:15:38 exit, both sides would have some green space would give you time to stage as you come out and go, "Oh, there's somebody on the sidewalk instead of as soon as you come out the garage, bam,
2:15:46 sidewalk in there." Where that gives you that buffer of clear clear commercial space has an awning.
2:15:53 We can ramp that awning on the seventh street side and over the automobile exit. So we we
2:16:01 to bring it together, the awning to tie it all together. So the little part on Minnola there that would have the awning
2:16:08 whatever style that is would bring it to seven just to bring the whole project together and have covered area on both sides.
2:16:16 Could there there are options to you know lower the the speed you know we could have speed bumps on like closer to
2:16:23 where the people are. We could have um on the ground they have like
2:16:30 green and yellow spots that you know people could kind of like make sure that oh yeah this is going to be a
2:16:38 car entrance or something like that. So there there are you know to make sure that you know people don't go really
2:16:46 fast here. Then we may have you know the pay a pay booth and then have the pay booth a little bit more you know on and
2:16:55 on and then that will actually require the people to actually stop to pay and then you know be able to then people will see them paying or not. So there
2:17:03 there's some option that we can kind like work towards that too. We also don't want to stop traffic.
2:17:08 No. I I also not sure if we're giving him the direction to create this covert area by an overhang of the building itself or more like an awning structure.
2:17:20 I don't think we clear for him on that.
2:17:22 I think on the seven side assuming that we're not able to do any commercial at all. It will be only awning, right?
2:17:29 Except that I think it would make more sense to be an overhang of the building.
2:17:33 Yeah, you just do a blank. You you just do a blank just that's what I'm saying. So, instead of an awning structure, it needs to be like
2:17:42 an an extension. Is that what you call a blade? Uh, a blade is essentially just a metal awning that extends out,