Clermont City Council Workshop Transcript 3-17-26

5:14 Okay. I call this uh
5:21 meeting workshop to to order for March 17, 2026.
5:27 Purpose of the city council workshop meetings are to for information gathering and discussion purposes only.
5:33 City council will not vote on any issues at workshop meetings. The council reserve the right to discuss additional items or delete items from the tentative
5:41 agenda. Right now we only have one item on the agenda. as the city manager review criteria. Um, but before we go any further, if I don't mind, Mr. Ben Wagner, I'm ask you to say a prayer.
5:51 Sure. Okay.
5:53 Father, thank you for this opportunity to be together today.
5:58 We ask for the wisdom of God in this meeting and we ask for your continued blessing in our city. Thank you for all
6:05 those that serve and all that they do for this community to make it better. We ask your blessing on them. We ask you to be with us now in Jesus name.
6:13 Amen. Amen.
6:15 It said um I'm gonna go ahead and what I guess I turn it over to Dan. Okay.
6:24 And I'm doing this since you're assistant man manager city manager and we're going to be talking about his criteria here. So if you don't mind please sir.
6:34 Sure. Absolutely. So, um, I guess about a couple weeks ago, there was an email sent out to all the council member with
6:41 some sample review criterias for some city managers from around the area,
6:46 around the state, just some examples of what other other communities and other jurisdictions are doing with their city manager
6:54 evaluations. So, with that being said, I know this is important that council wants to set criteria so manager knows what's being expected of them.
7:04 vice versa. So, just leave it up to council's discussion to see how you want to proceed with this.
7:12 Okay. I I can say say this um as I know in the many years I've been around this
7:19 council. I don't think I've ever had a review of the city seen review of a city manager. I know when I came in with the last city manager with one of the goals,
7:28 our goals prior administration was to try to set some standards for evaluation. However, we could never come up to with the agreement on on some of
7:37 the criterias and everything and every time we went out and did research, we came up with so many things, okay, in there and u so it was kind of difficult
7:46 for us to get that done. And so it's been one of my my things anyway to get done is go ahead and set up some
7:53 criteria for a city manager. And come to find out, we're not the only city that doesn't really do reviews on city
8:00 managers. a lot of other cities out there that just never okay with uh um I'll say this out front. One of my one
8:08 of my really tough sticking points for for the criteria that everybody keep saying is need to be in public. I I
8:15 don't like doing reviews or performance reviews in public. Okay, that's been one of my my main sticking points and
8:23 everything. Uh some kind of way we can do this on a private uh level. I mean we can still set it up in a way that we if
8:32 the public want to give us some feedback they can and everything but uh as us go since you work directly for me. Um I
8:40 believe in doing them things in in private is u we say in air force we we pray we praise
8:47 in public uh we chest in in private and praise in public. Okay. when you start
8:55 talking about evaluation, there's always some opportunity for chastising there.
8:59 So, they don't do that in public. And of course, when I went into the post office, I saw just the object, you know,
9:06 when we was always being chastised in in the public and and everything that you did good was done in in private. I
9:15 always felt like that one of the reason we end up with that thing called uh postal crazy you know going postal and
9:22 everything because guys what I saw in the in the post office looking one thing here come here and see a different things like that well I can understand
9:30 why people go off because they work very hard and you can you can never praise them in public but then as soon as they do something wrong they jump all over
9:37 and it cause people to go crazy so that's why I have the sticking point of not wanting to do things in private but I'm willing to sit here and hope we can
9:46 work through something and come up with something some kind of criteria and everything way we can do this. Okay,
9:51 that open the floor for discussion.
9:56 Um, you know, I think that there the way that sunshine and and meetings laws in
10:03 Florida are, I think we do, correct me if I'm wrong, uh, Mr. city attorney. We do have to have this as a as a public
10:11 meeting and not a behind closed doors meeting with the council reviewing the city manager. Is that correct? That's true. When you're together.
10:19 When we're together. Yes.
10:21 Individually. I could make an appointment with the city manager and provide any feedback at any time and we've had conversations. But in terms of a formal city council review process,
10:33 that would need to be done at a city council meeting or workshop setting.
10:36 Correct. The only reason I hesitate in answering is, you know, different cities have mechanisms where sometimes, you
10:43 know, you could fill out a form and then someone someone gathers the forms or um someone hires a consultant and then
10:51 briefs you all on what the results are based on your criteria. So, I'm not trying to dodge it. It's just there's many different ways. It's essentially an unlimited spectrum of what you can do.
11:02 But yes,
11:03 certainly uh you could get together and discuss communally as well. Yeah.
11:07 I just think uh I was surprised as a citizen when I first started attending meetings that there was it it just
11:16 seemed that there was never a formal even goal setting for a a city manager.
11:22 Um, and and I I don't know how city managers outside of
11:30 reading tea leaves at at at council meetings and reading social media posts knows exactly what they should be doing
11:38 or how they should be doing it and and what what outside of the daytoday they should be focusing on that the council
11:45 has set kind of some sort of strategic priority or direction for them. Um, and I I think we're getting to a point of
11:52 the size of our community and the scope of our community and what we have going on and what we have planned for the future that I think it would be
12:00 beneficial for us to to not just talk about the daytoday functions of what we
12:08 want to see a city manager do, but to set some strategic priorities or initiatives for them on a yearly basis.
12:14 and and maybe that's the evaluation that if we agree upon four goals or five
12:21 goals and annually we do that and then we do a review of that. You know, ask the city manager, give us some feedback
12:29 on how you felt you met these these strategic goals or or priorities this past year. Each of us could provide that
12:37 feedback and and one of us could coordinate that. I think that, you know,
12:41 I know other communities do that. In my previous experience um I in in elected office the the deputy mayor or here the
12:50 mayor prom was responsible for uh coordinating that effort on a yearly basis for the for the council. So, I'm not saying it has to be that person, but
12:58 I mean, we could designate somebody um to do that and um and and just provide
13:06 that feedback, gather it all, put it together and provide it. Um and and give that feedback so that not only the city
13:13 manager knows, but also their residents and the general public know um what did we kind of accomplish this past year?
13:18 what what what outside of the daytoday functions of the city did this council come together and say we want to see our
13:28 city focus on for this next year and how did we do and sometimes we may not meet those objectives I don't think that that
13:34 is a if we go about maybe approach of of reviewing goals and and and strategic
13:43 priorities rather than performance per se we get away from the
13:50 you know personalities associated with it and it becomes more of a did we meet these criteria and if we didn't what
13:58 what happened that we didn't well co happened for example you know that would obviously if there if something another pandemic happened that's probably going
14:06 to throw a monkey wrench in some of our strategic priorities well we can address that then we can say we we were able to get some of this done but not all of it
14:14 because we had to handle these other things okay um does it mean then it goes b back on the list next year or really
14:22 you know what we found that it wasn't as important because it didn't rise to the top so maybe that isn't something we need to include moving forward the next
14:29 year and we look at something else. I I'm not married to one way or the other.
14:36 I think there are a couple of different ways we can go about this. Um and I was just hoping that we could have a a conversation about that to see where our
14:44 thoughts are. straight up review, you know, communication,
14:49 agree, disagree, you know, whatever, one through five kind of thing. Or or is it a goal A, goal B, goal C, goal D, here are the goals, how did they meet them,
14:59 and uh what would we'd like to see? What what what worked really well, what maybe didn't work really well, and how does that shape where we move for the next
15:06 year? um and then create the foundation to do this on an annual basis maybe after elections because I think it would
15:15 be incumbent upon a new council you know if there's new people coming in to help create and set those goals so maybe it's
15:22 a December January kind of thing annually where we set it for the year and then they review it and we set it
15:29 and we just kind of go on that cycle I don't know but I I open it up you know I am open to hearing ideas and thoughts
15:37 I just think that um if we're going to uh you know hold our city manager and
15:45 this has nothing to do with this city manager. It's really for any city manager. If we're going to move forward as a community, as a growing community,
15:52 a as a maturing community, we ought to focus on more than just the day-to-day,
15:58 and think about strategic vision and direction and some bigger goal items that we'd like to see accomplished
16:06 collectively. Maybe it brings us together in that way, too, so that we can talk about, hey, we want to help support our city manager accomplish
16:15 these goals, so we need to set the budget for that. we need to reinforce that this is something we'd like to see done and and if it fails, I guess it
16:24 fails and we move on. I don't think it it hurts us necessarily, but I I certainly would like to see us do uh do a little bit more in that area,
16:31 especially since we talk about it in our contract with uh all of our city managers. We talk about performance evaluation and to my knowledge, it
16:39 hasn't been done. And I I think um we have an obligation to our employee. He's
16:46 he is our employee just as the department heads have obligations to their employees as they review them going throughout the year.
16:56 I think if you don't know to which port you're sailing, the wind is favorable.
16:59 So I like the idea of having goal setting and measuring what are the goals, how have we done. Um I completely
17:07 agree with you uh Tim about the you know, praise in public and chastise in private. That's my mom was a postmaster.
17:15 She she raised me the same way. Um, so I do agree with that. But, you know, I also think that all of us and Mr. W and
17:24 Mr. We're all in this understanding that we're under a little bit more of a fishbowl than we would like to be. And that's part of what we signed up for is
17:33 to have that public transparency. And so much of what we do talk about has to be done
17:40 in private only because sensitive things often are discussed behind closures and how do you present that and how do you
17:48 not create fear and how do you not you know I mean those things happen and if we don't have some sort of process for transparency then it will even if there
17:55 is nothing going on behind the scenes it will give the impression there could be something going on behind the scenes so I think that having some something that
18:04 is a standard for review is is a wise thing to do I think it, you know, I I'm a big fan of let them be v vindicated.
18:14 You know, sunlight's the greatest disinfection disinfectant. So, if you you'll either be validated or vindicated, if you just let it come out,
18:23 whatever it is. And to your point, if something doesn't work as well, why not?
18:27 Why didn't it work so well? Um, so I I'm I'm for having a set of standards, and I
18:34 think that, you know, once we're gone that I office, but there's also from this earth depends on your perspective.
18:42 Um, you know, once we're gone, you know,
18:44 what what stays behind. And so, if we create something that helps set this city on a trajectory of accountability and transparency and and goal setting
18:53 for the future, I think that that's good. Um,
18:57 feedbackwise, I actually think having a a two twice a year approach would be good. Um, I I've said before to people
19:06 that the public speaks through their elections. So, I appreciate the, you know, potentially setting something in December or January post election
19:13 because maybe the people elected the people they elected because they wanted to see a change and that might be why that person's there. Um, but also
19:21 avoiding the politics that often fall into the seat of the city manager by having a midyear review say, okay, how
19:29 are we doing with the people who have chosen to keep that manager? So, maybe that there's not so much fear on the staff side of what might be the outcome of the elections.
19:38 You know, we had maybe we had a good review in Janu June, but you know, this January and new council and then it's evident it was the new council versus
19:46 the city manager, you know, and that could help the city manager and his or her new search. So, um I don't like the
19:54 idea and I think we're on the same page of having some sort of public flogging.
19:58 I don't think that that would be healthy for anybody. Um, but I I think having I I like your point about how it could
20:06 bring us together on what are the things by which we're measuring the city manager. I think it's good for him or her in this case him to know what are
20:14 the standards that we're applying collectively and then if individually we go slightly off it's like we can hold each other accountable as well to you
20:23 know maybe we're asking too much of the city manager because so in theory I'm in
20:30 concept and in theory I'm I'm in support of what you're asking I think it's a healthy city
20:39 I think we're like constantly doing reviews of our city manager. I mean uh we could do it formally by with a
20:46 questionnaire and and then how does that questionnaire get weighted? You know, it depends on how you want to look at it.
20:51 You know, you could have it weighted on the on the political side or the non-political side. So, you know, we have a lot of power as a city council.
21:01 You know, three votes and you're gone. Yes.
21:04 So, so we're constantly evaluating you in what you do and how you act towards our individual needs as opposed to our
21:12 collective needs. You know, we all have our own particular things that we like,
21:17 that you like, that that that Miss Strange likes, and Mr. Baines likes,
21:22 right? And we all try to get our point to you. And I think your function is to get the cats all together, which is
21:30 difficult at times. you know, you it's hard to corral everybody. And I think that's an important thing. Evaluations
21:36 are, you know, there's many cities in in Florida that don't have any eval.
21:41 There's many that do. Does it does it have any real meaning to it when you think about the power that the council has, you know, whether you have a good
21:50 evaluation or bad if if you don't get the votes,
21:56 you know, I mean, that's the bottom line. So, I mean, I think valuations are good, but I think it's, you know, how it gets weighted and, you know, how the
22:04 questions are asked and how the questions are phrased really is going to determine what the meaning of the evaluation is. Sure.
22:11 You know, like, have you stopped beating your wife consistently? Yes or no? You know, I mean, obviously that that would be a bad question.
22:19 If if that's a question on the evaluation form, we've got bigger problems.
22:23 So, you know what I'm trying to say? How do you the questions can really be the you know and who's the who's going to be the person that determines the question?
22:32 Is that us or is that a consultant that would do that? You know, we each have our own idea of what the question should be, but maybe we're not the right
22:39 person. You know, like if you if you want to get heart surgery, we're not going to go to a podiatrist. So, same thing with this is we want to get this
22:48 worded correctly and does it really have meaning in the long run or is it just are we just spinning wheels just for the sake of spinning some wheels?
22:59 You bring up some points. Do you mind if I go ahead? you bring up some points that I think warrant insertion is something about what you
23:08 said made me think about the personal the very personal relationship between the council member and the city manager and and perhaps there are questions that
23:17 might help someone who maybe isn't as either open or
23:25 uh doesn't have the best interpersonal skills to be a better communicator with the city managers So, I think there's a
23:32 degree of potential relationship building between, you know, a rookie politician
23:40 and uh, you know, potentially a seasoned city manager or maybe a rookie city manager with a seasoned politician, right? I mean, it could go either way,
23:47 but I think that what you something in what you said made me think about the personal connection and the relationship
23:54 building, which might be where could be a sense of fear. I could I could envision a sense of fear by people
24:02 different people different positions looking at the idea of evaluating a city manager publicly how there could be a personal connection
24:10 versus the professional connection which I very much like as an open process uh because it's not about the personal it's not about my relationship with Mr.
24:20 Van Wagner or your relationship with Mr.
24:22 It's about our relationship to the public and the effectiveness of our
24:30 chief executive in in effectuating the vision that we have articulated
24:37 for the public. I think that part is where I think the evaluation provides the most
24:45 public impact and significance. But I also think something else that might be dancing around in this conversation is
24:53 the potential to improve the effectiveness of the communication between each individual council member
25:01 and the city manager because I think your your joke about hurting the cats is actually probably what he lives on a day-to-day basis is what I imagine. I I
25:10 can't I can't I can't imagine what it's like to have five people who are all very different and then you're also having to manage
25:18 your your direct reports who who are also very different and it's a wide net that he has to cast on a day-to-day
25:26 basis. So I think anything that we could put in place and I I would actually welcome his feedback at some point on that. um especially the personal relationship, how that could be better,
25:37 how we could put systems in place to help make that more streamlined.
25:42 And and he might say it's perfect. Maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm misreading the room,
25:47 but I we're all humans, so I kind of think that. Um but I think Mr. What you're asking is for a public a broad
25:55 public how do we measure the success of what I would describe as the effectiveness of the execution of the vision of the council?
26:05 Yeah. ver versus versus a annual review that is a little bit more about the personal
26:13 the personal or or and it's always going to be subjective but at least the subjectiveness if it's
26:22 more of a review of goals or prior strategic priorities set by this council that you have the guy you have the rails
26:30 you have the guardrails there it's goal A is blah blah blah blah how Did did they meet how did they meet it?
26:39 Did they meet it to the level that we had expected? Did they exceed that? Did they not? What were the factors that went into why they didn't? And it really
26:47 is about that specific criterion versus more open-ended where then maybe some of
26:54 those more interpersonal kinds of of things can be interwoven in where it becomes well I don't think that this
27:01 city manager well you know and and then it kind of and then it veers off versus
27:10 a specific kind of more guardrailed we're talking about goals ABC D and and how did they do in those goals in the
27:18 last year? And and I I actually kind of like the idea of of a midyear and post-election uh to have it as a as a twice a year
27:28 process so that it doesn't get mired in strictly the election cycle, which we can't avoid completely. But I if we can
27:37 if we can try to show that we truly are trying to make this about the strategic direction of the city and regardless of
27:45 who the five people are in those in these chairs and who the one person is in that chair, we always should be coming together to figure out what are
27:53 those strategic priorities and how are we assessing the accomplishment of those.
27:58 Yeah. I mean, I think about like the financial audit being one thing that would be I would want to see you talked about. Yeah, that's something
28:07 that's been talked about there. There is that you're not it's not a subjective thing. Did you file the audit? Was it accepted? Was it timely?
28:15 Did we win the award? I mean, these are things that are, I think, really important for the financial health of the city that are
28:23 easily measured. And then you know I you know just as a citizen when I observed us go through as a city a process where
28:30 that wasn't done and I'm sitting in the audience much like what you're describing going how are we not having a review how how what happens when these
28:38 things don't happen and but then it become I think from what I observed from the audience when the time came to
28:45 review the city manager it felt like well we're we're concerned about it being personal versus what if we establish criteria when there's no
28:54 conflict and no drama, then it becomes easier to to identify what those measures are and to to provide some sort
29:02 of feedback. So, I mean, I would say I don't know that we're there yet in the middle of scheduling, so I might
29:10 be a little higher execute than I should be, but I would say things like the financial audit should be something that would be I would think should be on any sort of was it done? It's on the finance.
29:22 Is crime going up? Is crime going down?
29:24 I mean there are things we could kind of look at each department and say what are our goals in each of these departments
29:30 and identify those and then visit them twice a year. I mean what a healthy thing for any business to say this is where we want to go
29:39 and at midway through the year how are we doing at the end of the year? How are we doing? Is that what you're kind of envisioning?
29:46 Yeah. Yeah. I um I I think that I like I like the direction of going to a a a
29:56 review of goals and priorities rather than an open-ended evaluation.
30:01 Um because then it becomes something that I think can have other positive effects.
30:10 How it brings the council together to execute and help the city manager execute on those priorities and goals
30:19 for the for the city. It also allows us to um you know, if it's something that requires staffing or or budgeting items,
30:29 we talk about that through those processes and we explain to the public why we're allocating funds or not allocating funds, why we're allocating
30:38 staff or not allocate or reallocating staff uh to to accomplish those goals.
30:43 that allows us to to tie those things back in together that we all agreed are priorities for us moving forward. Um,
30:53 and some of them can be routine like the financial audit. I mean, the the I think the charter says that the our charter
31:01 actually says that they have to do a fi they're required to do a financial presentation annually. Um, but maybe a
31:11 goal could be, well, maybe we want to see something like a state of the city uh, presentation that included that, but
31:18 also included other departments and and and you know, lots of communities do some sort of state of the city presentation or address that is done.
31:29 Um, and maybe we want to do something like that. So, it could be accomplished through that goal of establishing something like that. But um or it could
31:37 just be as simple as you know you you do need to meet a couple of these rudimentary kinds of things annually. Uh and did you meet them? Yes or no?
31:47 Yeah. Objective.
31:47 But then some here are some of the the bigger bigger picture bigger ticket dream lofty things that we want to set
31:56 out there for the for the next year or beyond.
32:02 Um, yes, I do believe what you all are saying. You all are on the same page. I know I had tried to do that with the previous council, but no one had an
32:10 appetite of wanting to um have standards of an evaluation because they didn't wanted to do it in the public. And I
32:18 hate that we have to do it in the public, so to speak. Um, but I do think we do need to be fair. um whatever our
32:27 goals that we come up with for our city manager to accomplish um I don't know about twice a year. I
32:34 mean I see the merits of that and I see the other side of I don't know because some jobs do that some jobs don't. Um
32:41 I'm kind of on the fence with that. I do know that, you know, it it is more fair for him to know what is expected than
32:49 just to say, "Well, you didn't do A and B, but we never told you what A and B was." That's that that's not fair. Um,
32:57 and I think we can use some of the um other cities that um our attorney gave us evaluations to use some of those as
33:06 an example and then we could tweak whatever we want on there or whatnot because I do like how you said, you know, some things are subjective, some
33:13 things are, you know, but that's where I'm at.
33:20 Okay. Well, let me I I go back a couple of points I heard heard you all make. Um which
33:27 um the twice a year uh I don't think we need to do a evaluation twice a year. Uh uh I think one of the good things would
33:35 be though every six months give him give him a um I guess where you are type evaluation which is which is something
33:44 um um I've had to do many many reviews when I was in the military and that's one of the things that we started in the air
33:51 force is every six months we had to come sit sit a troop down every six months and tell him where he stands and what the expectations are um in the next six
34:01 months when you're real evaluation came out. Um, so I have no problem with with with the 6 months review and everything,
34:08 but not uh overall it's more or less where we where you stand at this point where where where and where you need to
34:15 be to get to this point. Okay. Once we establish the criteria that we're going to be um looking at. Okay. Um and here's the other department as Mr.
34:27 Mr. Peterson said that one of the problem I think we was having with the other previous administrations is the fact that each one of us have our own
34:37 somewhat criteria expectations of a person. So for us to sit here and try to say uh and mold it into our own expectation, it's going to be very
34:46 difficult. Okay. And that's why we was having a lot of the problems before everything because we went out and like I said several times we went out and had
34:53 all the stuff pulled in off the off of off off the web and everything and then everything there we get so bogged down.
35:00 Um and one of the thoughts I had about it is maybe we as council members need to get out of that process maybe somewhat and and quit trying to put our
35:09 own personal touch on it. And I thought about having the lawyer go out and do this and come back and give us a couple proposal with the criteria in there and
35:18 we do this because guess what as you said before election going to bring about different results and we going to be gone the next council member come in
35:25 we may have a different set of they may be looking at things different want to change the whole process but I think if we get ourselves out of the process
35:33 somewhat and get some a neutral party to set up it standard that every council member every person will be uh judged by
35:40 from here on out, you know, uh not just on our standards we do. It work was way
35:47 uh every job I ever worked on, they always came in and I always came in. It was a standard process there in place.
35:54 Been there for years. We was evaluated on stay in the military and all. I never understood how they came up with them nine criteria. They used to judge me on
36:03 every year, rate me on every year. But hey, they was there and and of course we knew each area that uh we were going to be rated on by having them criteria.
36:13 So we knew what we need to work on. Uh you suggested about the um where the audit was done. Okay. So hey, we maybe have a criteria in there for budgeting.
36:24 Okay. Um I think in his contract it's a lot of guidelines put in the contract of some expectations. So we can go back to
36:31 the contract that we we molded ourselves as been molded over here and pull some of them areas out in Buckler. Hey, uh
36:39 topic could be budget. Okay, another one of public public relations. Okay, in these different areas and it's a lot of
36:47 different subtopics and be under each one of those. So I I truly definitely think for for uh well I agree it's not
36:55 so budgeting but I would say finance okay because that's one of the most important important aspects of his job is finance okay so underneath finance
37:03 okay how did he do with the budget was the audit done and all these different things can be done okay um public relations say what's some other areas
37:11 that we can buckle some of these things underneath to cover all these things but all this I think most of them is in his contract right now a lot of these
37:18 different areas I'm looking at other things in our charter um about the city manager.
37:27 Do you have a couple things that contract and at the very least we could
37:34 start with what we already submitted to and then I I can tell you what the charter says
37:42 right now about powers and duties. Um so looking at section 32
37:50 um says that the city manager shall be the CEO and head of administration be responsible for the following things and
37:57 then it lists eight things. Uh first is appointment and when necessary for the good of the city remove all officers and
38:04 employees of the city that's confirmed in your uh employee policies which you've approved by resolution as well.
38:12 Um, number two is prepare the budget annually and submit it to the council be responsible for its administration after adoption. Number three is prepare and
38:21 submit to the council as of the end of the fiscal year a complete report on the finances and administrative activities of the city which is I think what
38:30 council member Bhain talked about earlier. Number four, keep the council advised of the financial condition and future needs of the city making such recommendations as may seem desirable.
38:41 Number five, attend all meetings of the city council and of its committees and keep the council advised of the activities of his office with a right to
38:49 take part in the discussion but without having a vote. Number six, perform such other duties as may be prescribed under
38:55 this charter or as may be required by ordinance or resolution of the council.
39:01 Number seven, city manager may appoint a qualified person as purchasing agent subject to approval of the council by
39:08 whom all purchases of supplies shall be made. All purchases, sales, and contracts shall conform to the regulations to the council. And finally,
39:16 number eight, fix the salary of officers and employees according to the wage schedule approved by the council. Then
39:24 it does um in subsection B of section 32 talk about managing and controlling city-owned public utilities.
39:32 Um management operation of all public works, charitable and correctional institutions.
39:39 Uh manage or inspect water, lighting, power and transportation enterprises of the city.
39:48 manage and control the use,
39:50 construction, improvement, repair and maintenance facilities of the city,
39:55 including parks, playgrounds, and public gyms, social centers.
40:01 Uh, and shall manage and supervise all public improvements, works, and undertakings of the city. And that's what your charter says.
40:11 So, listen to all that. Is there we can par narrative down as you were reading.
40:17 I'm coming over with a couple like I said one with finance with all your uh financial information talk about the hiring and all that. So that's that can
40:24 fall under human resources and everything. How do you handle human resources? So huh procurement and all this done. So
40:33 and that can procurement can kind of go under under your finances as well. I guess but that's what I'm saying. We we got a lot of things sitting there in the
40:40 contract that we can probably work off of. Okay. And everything and come up with how many area you want to look at. See, well,
40:48 what's the areas you're important to you? Uh, I know the public uh communication and public relation would be one thing. Um, I think there need to
40:56 be. So, so the public how how is he with the public? Okay. And everything because a lot one of the things I've learned
41:04 sitting on this council, we react a lot of towards the city manager from a lot of feedback we do get from the public.
41:11 Okay. I've noticed that's one of the things we do quite a bit. If um in prior
41:19 years I've been around the council and other the three other city manager I've been around uh I used to hear a lot of
41:26 reaction to the city manager based upon what's coming in out from the public and everything. So public perception. So yeah that to me that's the important
41:34 part because that's that's a big part of his job is is being out in the in the public and relating with the public as well. So so but that's that's what I'm
41:42 saying. How do we come up with these things and do we want to be the one because what I see is important may not be as important to you and you everyone else can have different views.
41:52 Well, I look at it like if if I was to dismantle our federal government, which I've given some thought to. I would
41:59 start with the constitution and those the departments identified in the constitution would be the things
42:06 that I would say should be should remain and my personal philosophy would be say the national parks and after that I'm
42:14 pretty much done that's me personally but I think that starting with the constitution is a good start in this case we have our
42:23 charter and and we have his contract So we have law and really what your contract basically
42:32 says is he shall perform the things in the charter and your laws.
42:36 There's nothing there's nothing really additional.
42:38 Okay. So the charter. So I think if we start I would suggest we could start with the items in the charter and I
42:46 would actually suggest that maybe a good exercise would be for the five of us to look at those parts of the charter to
42:53 say okay finance for example like okay how do you measure what are the goals for each one of these departments you
43:02 know and then we could look at that together because I think it was your point, Miss Myers.
43:08 If he doesn't know how he's going to be measured, who said it? Someone else.
43:12 Yeah. If he doesn't know how he's going to be measured, then how how can you hold it against him, right? So, if we can start and I hear you about, you
43:20 know, different personalities and feel free to use it on me if I'm if I put my junk on it. Just that's my personal opinion. Let's take that out.
43:30 We, I think, have an obligation to the public to put the public first and what does the public want? So I think it's
43:38 incumbent upon us five to agree even if we have personal goals and desires which we certainly do. who are humans is what
43:46 do we all agree this is our unified path forward and we might have other things we like but on this unified path we'll
43:55 stay together and I think that becomes the very clear kind of the tie that binds so to speak for the city manager
44:03 is this is the path forward and what I really like about this process that you've introduced Mr. campaign is that hopefully this this rope if you will or
44:12 this tie will last beyond all of us and it will move the city in a direction that is firm firmly grounded. Um so I
44:20 think if we start I would suggest we start with the charter and each identify maybe we could come up with three no more than five criteria that could maybe
44:29 be used to measure success what we identify as success in each of those areas of the charter. Um,
44:39 and then we could maybe bring this back to say, okay, this is the standard that we suggest using. Um,
44:47 it sounds like a a targeted goal might be we could perhaps look at a pre-budget
44:54 type if you like the idea. If we all agree a review is good, maybe before a formal
45:02 evaluation or I'm a fan of reviews. I don't but if it causes anxiety that's not the goal you
45:09 know but if we do this kind of measure before we budget and then after we budget when the fiscal year is
45:17 over you evaluate it I think that that makes sense but if we start with what does the charter say we do how do we
45:25 measure success we agree on maybe there's three things in the end when we're done maybe it's two or one but you
45:33 know whatever that number is that we agree And then he has something that we can measure again. We can all measure
45:40 against. It's our own success. He's just the one that has to do the work.
45:46 So we're really measuring our own success in the end. But you know what do we think about that direction as like a next step of looking at the charter and coming up with three to five criteria.
45:57 Maybe that's something we could do electronically. What are the rules on how we could share that information?
46:03 I mean it depends on what you mean. So if if you're talking about everyone gets an evaluation sheet. Let's say the the first thing finance.
46:12 We talked about finance. So I might say okay five measures of finance. Did we get our our our uh are our books
46:20 reconciled monthly? That would be something I would put in there. Is our budget adopted annually and balanced?
46:27 Did we stay under budget at the end of the year? Did we submit our audit? and did we get the GFOA award? Those would be I would say these are the five
46:35 criteria that I like and then we we would you might have five different ones, you might have five different ones, but we might find that
46:43 there are like two that really we all agree on.
46:46 They can be compiled and circulated. I mean, there's nothing wrong with that. How does that work with the sunshine?
46:51 Someone can compile it. I mean, so for example, Okachobee County does that where all the commissioners take a form,
46:58 uh, they submit it, they evaluate it,
47:00 they write it up, they submit it to the city clerk, and then the city clerk compiles them and makes them available for your joint review. So in that way,
47:08 your review has an effect at another review. You get them all at the same time and it avoids any sunshine issues.
47:14 But each one of Let me understand what you're saying. Each one of them have they all uh have one specific each one of them get the same review.
47:22 Correct. The same criteria to grade on and then they grade. So correct. So it's not being done in public basically. It's been done somewhat in private and then it's given to them. Yeah.
47:31 Okay. And everything. So and it could be just and then afterwards if y'all wanted you could present them in the aggregate publicly or have it in the agenda packet however you want.
47:42 Right.
47:42 But I do want to be responsible because there might be a miscommunication here.
47:45 I could see it go both ways. What I'm asking about specifically is how do we come up with the criteria, right? I see.
47:52 And and so the the public versus private, I'm mostly concerned about sunshine. I think that once that information is compiled, there's a
48:01 potential that one of us could write something that the others don't understand because we've done it in a silo and that if we bring it back together and we might find in this area,
48:11 we literally all said the same thing and these are the three criteria and that's easy. But we might find in another area there's like 15 different criteria and
48:18 okay now first of all now we know where he's got anxiety right because we're on different pages.
48:25 So then how do we narrow that down? And I think that has to be done.
48:28 You're talking about the section of the criteria themselves.
48:30 This criteria she she referring to the criteria themselves. But here that's why I some I think I suggested that maybe we have have the lawyer to keep our
48:39 personal feelings somewhat. I'd other have him go back and look at all and break it down in the different categories. He present that to us. We can go through them say yeah and no. But
48:48 the other reason I say that is because with a HR background that's what my degree is management HR and everything.
48:55 I know it's also still some legal legalities there what we can and cannot say and do to keep it make sure we keep
49:02 ourselves legal. uh having I know he probably whatever we put together you have to go through and make sure we we legally and we not adv
49:10 I don't know that there's any um just making sure I'm on the same page. I don't think there's any way of getting around y'all voting on the criteria.
49:20 Well well once you put it together we can come back. So one thing we do, one method that we have on the judicial nominating commission. So there's
49:28 judicial nominating comm anytime there's a judicial vacancy in Florida. Every circuit has one.
49:32 I'm on the one here in the well in the ninth circuit. And we get, you know,
49:37 we'll get 30 applications and we've got to determine how do we rank them to send them to the governor's office. And what we'll do is the first thing we do is if
49:46 if anyone has a vote for who wants a name in contention, we just we want to know who the names are, who's interested
49:53 in the names, and then we'll have a vote for each one of the names. And then there could be a motion for um okay, I
50:03 want to accept all the names that have two or more votes. We send that list to the governor. Similarly, you could say,
50:09 okay, let's tally up who likes this criterion, that criterion, that criterion. Anything that has three or more people who want that as a
50:18 criterion, put it on the evaluation form,
50:21 you know, and in that way, you have the majority for each of the criterion that you put on the list. It's just an idea, but it works well for us.
50:29 I like that idea. I think it's more fair because I just want us to be fair. So,
50:33 what we could do is create the menu of the criterion, the criteria, and then
50:40 maybe y'all give tally marks or something and then we compile that and you can choose to vote on it at a meeting or something what you want.
50:49 So, you would be the one that would generate it.
50:51 It could be me. It could be I mean, it could be Dan, could be Well, it would be impartial, right? If you would do that, yeah, because you would be looking at the le,
50:58 you know what it has in there, what the criteria is, and then you could take that and consolidate it down into specific goals.
51:07 I mean, I'll tell you what I would do based on what you've discussed so far is I would take the charter criteria, you know, I mean, and try as best I could to enumerate the eight things,
51:16 right? and then look at the forms that I sent you that Naine procured um and
51:24 give you guys the biggest selection possible to maximize your discretion flexibility. I like that idea.
51:30 So, are we thinking that we would do that in front as a result of that? then set some actual goals based off of that
51:39 kind of conversation because I I think the one thing that the only the one thing I'm hearing that might be missing from all of that and I I I don't want this to
51:48 sound like I I I don't support that. I just am saying the one thing I'm hearing that may be missing from that is any type of goal setting
51:57 for the city manager. But I I think we could start with that,
52:04 have that as a base, and then be able to then say, "Okay, based off of this,
52:10 based off of all this information, this criteria, these reviews, this feedback,
52:15 here are now the goals we'd like to set for the next year."
52:20 And then we move forward with a process by which we evaluate those goals. This this could be the first step to get to
52:28 that point where then we create the goals and then annually review those goals and set new
52:37 I and if it doesn't again I'm totally okay if it doesn't work we fail we fail fast we learn from it and we move on. Uh
52:44 I mean this isn't brain surgery so you know no one should hopefully be injured or or or uh uh not be with us as a
52:53 result of it. Uh, but um, you know, I think let's not be afraid to try it and
53:02 if it works, great. If it doesn't, tweak it or get rid of it and do something completely different. But I I would just like to see us try. And I I I would
53:10 support moving forward with what we've talked about to then get to the point of setting those goals.
53:15 The only thing that I would say gives me some anxiety around the process as it's been described thus far is
53:24 I'm not a big fan of I hope you can relate to what I'm about
53:30 to say. Kind of a democratic tally if you will. Um
53:39 I think that when we're talking about the vision of the city and how we're going to measure the city managers moving forward with the vision of the
53:46 city, we we may be dealing with things or ideas that have weight that's not
53:54 obvious either in the initial presentation of it or the way it's described, the way it might appear on paper versus the ability for us to have
54:02 discussion about the importance of some of these issues. Um,
54:08 you might say, I think having businesses that are veteranowned is important. I might dismiss that. We might have a
54:17 debate and I might come to an agreement that, oh, she actually there's really good reason for that. I think the function of the adversarial process in
54:25 the debate, especially for us having such a unique and and diverse council is likely to lead to better results if we
54:33 have the ability to discuss with one another and then take a vote if you will. Um not sure if it needs to ultimately needs to be voted on, but you
54:42 know I think to my suggestion in the process would be to take the criteria raw, not ask us to revisit it until
54:51 we've had a chance to talk to each other about it again. So that then maybe we're voting on it if we want to have a sense
54:58 of, you know, we've done it in in private, if you will. Although I'm not even sure if we're allowed to do that.
55:04 We might have to be publicly accountable for how we were to vote on these items. I'm not I don't know. Well,
55:10 if we're setting criteria, are we able to do that without speaking?
55:15 I I think these three are the top three things or can I do that by silent vote or how does that work? I guess I'm not quite understanding.
55:23 Well, I let me see. I Well, maybe I I need to ask that question too because maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought what you were saying
55:31 is you you sit down and you come up with all these criteria. You feed them to us.
55:34 You give them to us. We can go through and highlight the ones that each one is mean the most to each of one of us or or you want it all.
55:41 Yeah. And we want it all and then we come back and put them together and we can come back and I would show you which one
55:49 and then we agree upon hey this was number one two three or do we all agree with totally up to y'all. Okay. After you choose out of the
55:57 list he compile after each one of us get choose from each the list he compile and then we tally them. Not so much as tally everything. Exactly. So that's the way I
56:06 can do it outside the sunshine is I can at least show you what you're interested in based on what you highlight on the criteria list
56:13 and then just like in any procurement process you're not bound by that at all.
56:17 You could say you know four people voted for that but I think it's trash. I'm not you know and it's it's just meant and by the way I'm not wedded to anything.
56:26 I'm just throwing you know the process works in a different context and that may have been something that you consider. Yeah, we we just saying I just
56:33 think we need to keep it simple. I don't think we need to complicate it because that brings anxiety too.
56:38 Um I think what you said and then how what Brian said about you know talking verbally about like the goals and the objectives. I think we have the standard
56:47 of what you're saying and then we come back okay now what is the goals that we want that are realistic to give to him and we come and agree and you can add those too.
56:56 Yeah. And keep it simple. And are we distinguishing when you're talking about the goals and the standards, are we saying there's objective standards,
57:03 there's subjective goals or or maybe non-essential goals from the not obviously essential like doing your books is a fundamental part of
57:12 government. You got to do it right,
57:14 you know, in every business, but whether you have extraordinary customer service.
57:20 Well, and I do measure that. And I almost look at something like complete the fiscal audit every year as an expectation.
57:27 Yes,
57:28 it's a requirement. A goal would be how we like if we wanted a a formal city-wide
57:36 presentation, whether it's a state of the city or not, but if we if we wanted to say we want this, we expect you to it's done every year. You're required by
57:45 our city charter to complete this report. Okay. However, the goal would be Okay, you're required to do this. It's
57:53 an expectation, but here's the goal that we have for you in terms of what we want as a result of that. The aspiration,
57:59 the aspiration to get to what this could do for our community or how we could present this, what it could lead to beyond just meeting the expectation of doing the report.
58:10 So, for example, doing the report is mandatory. Getting it online so that the public can interact with the live
58:18 that could be a goal. That could be an aspirational goal or or you know a public presentation or what those would all be the aspirational types of goals
58:25 that we would create to try to get to the next level of are we just meeting expectation or are we actually trying to
58:32 advance and move us forward in some sort of way.
58:35 I like that you use that expression meeting expectations. I feel like this might have come from a college at some point. I feel like I've heard that before, but it's a great standard of
58:44 these are the expectations because I I felt as a citizen like there were times the expectations weren't met
58:51 and and there was never and they were obvious, you know, and it's like when are we going to assess this because we
58:58 have to deal with the thing and so I I like the idea of having these are the expectations, this is the basic standard
59:08 and then here's the aspirational. I think that's great. I like that a lot. Yeah.
59:14 So, I'm hearing we are attorney or somebody is
59:21 why don't you start because we need I don't want to filter. I don't want to lack understanding on this in the in the charter. These are the things that must be done.
59:30 Right. If you can get that list and then it goes to a staff member to help us.
59:38 Um then we come up with our what do we want to say five at the most standards what we think goals
59:45 and goals of these are criteras criter um and Mr. W I of course I know you're a
59:53 lawyer and everything but I know we got Naen back there with uh HR so I know you'll be calling upon her right. Oh yeah.
1:00:00 Okay. Like I say, that's the other other one of the other fears I always had because like I say, I have my background is in human resource management and
1:00:08 everything as well. So I know there's a lot and I've been out of for a while,
1:00:12 but I know there's still a lot of laws we got to we got to abide by.
1:00:15 Listen, I'm never going to try and get on her bad side. So we'll we'll do what we can. Okay.
1:00:21 And is it okay I think too I um to go back to the the point of uh I think someone made about hearing from our our
1:00:30 current city manager in this process and I and I'm I'm cognizant of the fact of you know uh the philos the managerial
1:00:38 philosophy of of including you you know your staff in the evaluation process but I'm I'm one where I I believe it it
1:00:45 actually is beneficial to get feedback from the staff member that you're also providing feedback back to um and I I'm
1:00:53 just curious if you have any general thoughts number one or andor uh thoughts
1:01:01 or feedback on that kind of a new shell of a process we just talked about here and kind of put in potential place
1:01:08 moving forward so that we know we know that now so that we we can try to address some of that and make that because I I want this to be successful
1:01:16 personally and I think all of us collectively want it to be successful. Sure. Yeah. Not to put you on spot that way,
1:01:22 but I was definitely going to give him a chance, but I want to make sure we we was all in somewhat agreement before we opened up and Okay, go ahead.
1:01:31 Yes, sir.
1:01:32 Well, I I think your ideas for Mr. Watt and Mr. Matthysse are a good idea to get their input with that. One of my biggest
1:01:41 angsts I deal with is crowning winners and losers. And what I mean by that is when a vote takes place,
1:01:52 I'm obligated to fulfill that responsibility from the council. And sometimes some of the council members,
1:02:00 it's difficult that are on the other side of the vote. And I'm I'm just trying to fulfill what's what's been
1:02:07 voted on. And so I would say it would be fair to me to say that I'm fulfilling the majority of the wishes of the
1:02:16 council. And sometimes that's not going to work individually versus collectively. And so I would say that would be one of the things you have to
1:02:24 consider. I may not do something an individual likes, but I'm honoring the
1:02:31 system that's been set up and I'm doing what the majority of the council wants.
1:02:36 And that's one of my biggest struggles is creating angst or frustration for some of you on some issues that perhaps didn't go the way you wanted them to.
1:02:47 I'm just trying to fulfill what's put in front of me. And that's I kind of feel sometimes back and forth. I will say
1:02:53 that it helped. I you all were very honoring and going out of your way to make sure that you're communicating with
1:03:01 me rather than the staff. And that that's empowering so I can do my job.
1:03:07 And I feel like all five of you have been doing that since our discussion and I'm grateful for that. Um, if I were you,
1:03:16 I would say communication would need to be one of the high high areas of critique
1:03:24 and it would be with the council. It would be working with other government entities. I mean, I I I mean, me and the
1:03:34 mayor were just at a mayor's lunchon. I mean, there's things like that that you need communication skills of some degree
1:03:42 to be successful in this thing and relationships matter. So, I would think I don't know how you grade that, but
1:03:51 whomever is in the seat has to be good at relationships and working with people.
1:03:57 Even if they don't agree with each other, there's got to be some mutual respect that takes place so that people are willing to work together. So,
1:04:06 it it's got to be with Lake County, it's got to be your state representatives,
1:04:11 it's got to be your federal representatives.
1:04:14 And I think that's something you should look at even beyond me is communication
1:04:21 has to be a key. I'm not sure how you communicate with the entire city and citizens
1:04:29 effectively. I mean, maybe it's a state of union, but you're only going to have a certain percentage of people. So, I'm not sure how you would critique that
1:04:36 personally, but you by your own individual encounters could easily critique whether communication is taking
1:04:45 place to your satisfaction or not. And you could communicate. And I'll just say this in fairness to all of you. You all have a scorecard whether you realize that or not already.
1:04:54 Really?
1:04:56 And some of you tell me about it publicly and some of you tell me about it privately, but there's a scorecard already going. So whether you think it's
1:05:04 six months or not, it's it's pretty much weekly I hear from you. Some of you even more often than that. And that I'm I'm
1:05:12 okay with that. But I just I'm just want to be a little realistic with this conversation. There's a scorecard going.
1:05:18 It's not every six months. It's every week. It's every council meeting. It's every workshop. There there's communication going. in reviews. So
1:05:26 there's constant communication of some degree. And I would say that that's even ramped up even even into a higher level
1:05:34 now that you all are working with me more to work with me rather than the staff directly. So I I think you're
1:05:42 communicating with me quite well. And again, I would just say you got to give me some grace because some of you want
1:05:49 this and some of you want that and they're polar opposite and both this one's frustrated and this one's frustrated. What I'm trying to keep my
1:05:57 role is to be neutral and to try to just stay right in the middle and then once the majority of the council speaks, that's where I have to
1:06:06 go. And that's how I try to handle this role. And I tell my staff, we're Switzerland. until there's a vote. We try to be honoring of everybody, listen
1:06:15 to everybody's input, and then once you all speak,
1:06:19 that's it. And that's how I try to do my role here is just be honoring. I consult the city attorney a whole lot.
1:06:28 I consult HR a whole lot. I consult Scott about things. I consult Freddy
1:06:35 about things. Mr. Mayor, one of the things you encourage me to do is trust your staff. and I talked to them a whole lot. So I the Bible says there's safety
1:06:44 in a multitude of counselors. I talked to Mr. Matthysse and of course all of you. So I answer I hope I answered your
1:06:51 question but I think communication is one of the biggest pieces that you need to look at in my mind. And I'm really
1:07:01 I I think you said something that hopefully strikes all of us in the sense
1:07:09 that this this is more about a framework for whomever's in these seats
1:07:16 that it's not just the five of us individually and you as a city manager.
1:07:21 Yes, it it is today. There is that real right. There is that reality. But if we if we can create a structure that is absent of personalities,
1:07:34 that's not easy, but if we can try to get there, it allows us to have something in place that really benefits the community in the city, uh, and in
1:07:43 turn the people who were then in those chairs at that time as they're doing it. I got that from what you just said. So, I'm appreciative of that.
1:07:52 Um,
1:07:53 and I can I can truly understand your feeling about you have to react upon the the vote of the
1:08:01 council because as the mayor I sit here a lot of times I'm not happy with some of the votes and way things go but then I'm sitting here and I'm still got to
1:08:09 sign off on everything in the city okay with your signature literally um stuff coming through procurement I may not be happy with it but hey that's
1:08:17 my job is sign off whether I like it or not okay and I think I sign most 90% of the documents that come through the city
1:08:24 I have assign them agree with them or not. Uh other thing you said I think I mentioned it earlier about communication. I think one of the first
1:08:32 things I uh conversation we ever had when right if you was put in uh as interim was the fact that I expect you
1:08:39 be be the force of the city. Okay. I think that was one of the first things I told you. I expect you to be the voice of the city. Anything came up I expected
1:08:47 you to do that. Okay. Um news news or whatever. and if you couldn't be
1:08:54 there then I I will be there but um I wasn't the one that I wanted to be out and doing this new case and speaking for the city. I've always felt like that's
1:09:03 the city manager's job and so I think I mentioned it earlier about uh communication public relations and everything because to me that's one of
1:09:09 the key key areas uh communicating and I know as he mentioned we we go to all these different meetings all the time
1:09:16 with city managers and and uh other mayors and county commissioners and all these different things. So it's communicating and working with other
1:09:24 agencies is very key to this thing. So so I totally agree with that and understand where you're coming from and
1:09:31 um I just always felt like if we can somewhat try to get ourselves out of it and keep our our personal feelings I I
1:09:39 guess I'm trying to look for a way to be neut somewhat neutral without letting each one of our personal aspects get in.
1:09:45 That's why I like to have a neutral party come in and design these things for us. Okay.
1:09:51 And I'm Mr. Mayor, I'm happy to work with Christian on this. We can get the eight criteria and then we can work
1:09:58 together and come up with what's below expectations, what's meeting expectations, what's exceeding expectations. You have real criteria to
1:10:05 go over. We'll do that. We can bring that back to you.
1:10:08 And I I do realize he he's graded every day because I tell you if I don't like something, you know, I would tell him I sit down and have conversations and and
1:10:17 um I've always been the type of person I try to be honest. I always ask everybody to be honest and tell me exactly what you feel and let me be a big boy and deal live deal live deal live deal live
1:10:25 deal live deal live deal live deal live deal live deal live deal live deal with or die with it I whatever and I always try to be honest with people with my feelings so um so we do have our our
1:10:33 times we communicate with like I say that one of the first things I told him was communication so that is one criteria area I I would definitely agree
1:10:41 with him on is is the and the finances as well okay those are two of the biggest things we we have to worry about
1:10:48 um Nobody else. I would uh we got a lot of public here and this is a public forum and like I said we were not going to be
1:10:55 taking any action so voting on anything but I would like to have some feedback from the public. Anybody want the public want to give any feedback? Wayne is this microphone live?
1:11:07 Thank you.
1:11:19 See, how we doing?
1:11:29 All righty, sir. How about yourself? I'm good. Get your name and address, please. Brian Kess, 1166 Short Street, Claremont.
1:11:37 All right.
1:11:39 I would just say you guys did pretty good today. It wasn't painful.
1:11:46 That's meeting expectations.
1:11:49 But you know you what you really got to do is you got to align on things. So as a group, as leaders, you have to line and you pick what they are.
1:11:58 You'll get them done.
1:12:00 I'm sure the one thing that's missing is all the stuff these guys got to do that you don't know they got to do that they keep you guys in good shape,
1:12:12 out of trouble. So it's it's a it's a big job they do.
1:12:17 They're open to the public. They have to listen. They got to want the truth. They got to do the right thing.
1:12:28 Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else?
1:12:41 Joe Famosi 2693 jump way. Uh I really appreciate the uh professionalism and
1:12:49 the cooperation here today. This was a big change uh from the last and I appreciate that everybody was on board
1:12:57 today in a very uh goal oriented way to come up with criterias.
1:13:05 Uh I thank you today mayor for being outstanding and being on board here today. I appreciate it.
1:13:13 Um, I really appreciate that the council members are trying to come up with a fair and precise way to bring this to
1:13:22 about and I appreciate Mr. Baines saying that this is not only from today, this will be from now on.
1:13:31 I'd like to say a few things about Mr. Van Wagner, the city manager. uh some of the things that I've notated as
1:13:40 far as watching him uh the financials that are on the website on uh the city website any any citizen can go there and
1:13:50 look at where the city stands financially that's an accomplishment.
1:13:55 the inspiration I've seen with the staff as far as department heads being letting
1:14:03 getting out of the way and letting them innovate and come to uh better ideas of how to move forward and how to be
1:14:10 conservative and as far as their budgets figuring out solutions working within those budgets that takes a special skill
1:14:19 set. So, uh, I hope you all recognize that you have a person over there that's met a lot of these high bars that you're
1:14:27 trying to set and that you recognize that the city has moved into a better direction.
1:14:34 And his goal, from what I can see, is to serve you and to serve the city in the
1:14:41 utmost best way he can. And part of that is because of his management style of letting these folks take the lead and
1:14:51 lead themselves to make them better leaders. So I would like to thank you for this opportunity to speak on this
1:14:59 behalf and I appreciate your leadership and I do notice today that you are leading outstandingly.
1:15:07 I think I appreciate that. Thank you. All right. Thank Thank you, sir. Anyone else?
1:15:23 Good afternoon. Uh Jim Kddy, 2177 Cedar Springs Way. Uh I was just thinking uh how I would do this to start from
1:15:31 scratch. Uh my former career, I'm retired, was electrical engineering and I was a department manager and oftentimes the HR would hand us a system
1:15:38 that we would use for criteria. But if I had to start from scratch, I don't know where I would start. But I was looking up some things and I'm sure you all are familiar with the Florida City and
1:15:47 County Management Association FCCMA at their website. They seem to have a very nice layout of what they use to to score
1:15:55 city managers and it seems like it incorporates a lot of what you all folks were talking about. It's like a level higher than the attorney was talking about where he's talking about specific
1:16:02 goals. Uh but they they use they use 10 what they call performance dimensions.
1:16:09 You know, the first one is professional and skill experience, and the council folks would would uh uh rate one to five. Uh and the there's 10 of them.
1:16:19 That that was the first one. And the last one is individual characteristics.
1:16:23 I don't want to go over each one of these, but uh if that's something you'd look at at their website, it's it's it's the in in my former career, I would
1:16:30 always try to say, I don't want to start inventing the wheel. There's a wheel out there somewhere. Where is it? Well, it seems like this particular organization would pretty much have the answer,
1:16:38 right? you know, the uh FCCMMA folks. So, just something to think about. That's probably where I would start. Thanks.
1:16:47 Thank you, sir. Anyone else? Anyone else?
1:16:56 Seeing no one else. Oh, yes. Online. Anybody online? Nobody online. Okay. Nobody online. So,
1:17:04 um seeing no one else, I'll bring you back counseling. Uh I I guess uh we we've given you some kind of direction.
1:17:11 I like the last suggestion too. Like I say, I I do know I be honest with you, I was shocked to find out so many cities
1:17:18 didn't uh have uh anything set up in far as evaluating the the city managers and everything. Of course, as Mr. Van Wagner
1:17:27 say as well, I know he's he's true about that. The fact that he'd be evaluated every day, every week. I know I don't
1:17:35 have no problem if I don't like something I'll call him about something and all that. I I do that. And of course, I've always been the type of
1:17:42 person that I I prefer telling somebody about it. Um as I mentioned before when I was in the Air Force and they start making us evaluate everybody every six months. I was a little upset with it,
1:17:53 but I turned the learn with it because then I can always let a person know because my system was I so the person came to work with me. First thing I did
1:18:01 was sit down and talk to them and let them know what my I got mad about this every six months because I had to write a lot of APRs.
1:18:09 Okay. I had three 400 people under underneath me sometime and it used to be creating a lot of work. But but after a
1:18:16 while it it I realized with the 6 months evac six period it was a great thing because even though I gave you that
1:18:24 initial perception and everything at six months I can tell you exactly where you stand where you where you stand in meeting those goals and have time to correct it.
1:18:34 Well we do a monthly report from like finance and then we have a quarterly presentation and then we have the annual
1:18:42 you know final. I think that's a really good way if something's important,
1:18:46 you're going to look at it and touch it and and if we're designing this to be the vision of the city, I think that that's u you know,
1:18:55 it's good that he knows that, you know,
1:18:57 I I would say maybe even we get a state of the city quarterly. If I mean, I'm getting a little farther down the road,
1:19:03 but I think having a state of the city produced, you know, from the city manager's office, say this is what we're working on, this is where we are. I think that would be a great thing.
1:19:12 then we could review those, you know, annually.
1:19:15 I don't think a city of of of state of the city or quarterly is a good idea.
1:19:20 That's a lot of work. Annually, it going to be enough work. Okay. Not even We'll get there. We'll get there. That's
1:19:26 I don't want us to get I I hate for us to get to a point where right now we're we're talking about the next piece and
1:19:33 we're and cloud's even getting to a that that next step. Well, yeah.
1:19:40 I I think we've got a good framework to start and then we can we can really have those conversations about based off all of that. What would we
1:19:48 like to see as those goals or aspirations? Um and and and that is probably a conversation where we're sitting up there to because it's
1:19:56 actionoriented in terms of taking a vote on something um that we can do. Um but I think we're in a good spot. Do
1:20:03 I have a visual for my notes? uh in case this shows up to everybody what I'm what I'd like to draw what I'm seeing is so
1:20:11 we would have the charter criteria expectations or standards max five that we would each write down
1:20:20 aspirations max three these are my proposals of the numbers and then any proposed other criteria so
1:20:28 we got the charter but then like communication I didn't hear in the charter of how we communicate and I heard you know, someone else say what he
1:20:36 keeps. I put avoid drama or a bad brand was how I heard it. Um, so maybe we want to say maybe there's other criteria, but
1:20:44 these are the charter criteria and then maybe we want to submit for each other's consideration additional criteria with
1:20:52 the the standards and the aspirations connected to it. we compile those and and I'll say maybe I I could have heard
1:20:59 it wrong but I would not at the the next phase of us reviewing I would not necessarily want to have yet what are the standards of meeting expectations or
1:21:08 exceeding expectations. I think once we get to the point I would submit that then when we have our kind of three for
1:21:16 each category is where we would say okay this is what meeting expectations would be otherwise it's a lot of extra work for no real reason.
1:21:23 Does that sound like Is that what I've drawn? I'm gonna give this to Dan if that's
1:21:30 Yeah. I I I I really don't care if it's two, five, four. You know, I I'm less focused on a number. Okay.
1:21:39 And more and more focused on a concept at this point. And I and so I'm totally okay. I think our city attorney and
1:21:47 deputy city manager, whomever is involved with them in kind of creating a shell has the the consensus of where
1:21:55 things stand. Um, and I trust them to do that. Um, so no match, keep it open. Well, I mean,
1:22:01 I guess if they if they say based off of what they come forward with that four is five, three is the magic number, I'm
1:22:10 willing to trust that a and get it started that way for that to get us to the next step rather than get bogged down in a
1:22:18 in in a deciding what a number has to be right now to even get there.
1:22:23 I need to clarify. I'm talking about what we give them to compile,
1:22:26 right? Because if we each gave them five different ones, there's 25, right? But maybe we say at this point we want to be
1:22:33 broad. I'm I'm just Well, that that was one of the other problem we had. We had everybody come around all we had this such long list.
1:22:43 That's why I said we kind of somewhat take ourselves out of it and leave it to two or three people to do this and come
1:22:50 up with more general and more detail uh points and everything and bring it back to us and everything and
1:22:57 then we as as Mr. W said then we can go through and say yeah one two this mean this this and then you compile them and come back and we end up with a
1:23:05 give you the block of marble and then you chisel it into David. So I I like that and I think with Mr.
1:23:13 Naen with HR and Mr. uh Matthews talk about uh Chiffany and everything because he understand some of the real
1:23:20 responsibilities of the city manager as well and Naen to make sure we we keep we keep oursel legal and everything. I think they may be able to come up with with a good list for us to choose from.
1:23:32 I mean if you I don't have no problem saying hey go to Mr. and tell them some of what your your expectation, but I just don't want to see us come up with
1:23:40 this this one item where we got 900 uh areas underneath it. Don't worry about that.
1:23:49 See, that's one of the things that was happening with us before cuz each one of us was coming up and we were doing that and we could never really narrow things down. Right. Okay. We were having
1:23:58 trouble and then the other big issue was were we going to do it in public which we can we can come back to that later and I think he gave a good suggestion on
1:24:05 how we can we can we can do our private evaluation it be and then it can be presented to the public. I think this is
1:24:12 the best conversation that a council in Claremont of recent times has had about this. U because I remember when council
1:24:21 member Myers brought this up and I was a citizen at the time and we talked a lot about it because I you know we I shared about some of the experiences we did and
1:24:28 we're like, "Oh gosh, we had such a luxury to be able to do it a little bit differently." Yeah.
1:24:32 In a different state with different rules and and uh how frustrating that could be to to to go about that. And I think it just went and then it ended. It
1:24:42 just died there. And for us to even be at this point, I I think that let let's take let's let's see what we get back and if we have to mold a little bit more and chisel a little bit more, we will.
1:24:53 Um but we are I think on a path to actually have a really uh intentional
1:25:02 and thoughtful process that we can utilize and we can build upon for the future. And I I I I'm really really excited about that.
1:25:12 And and Mr. Bane, you're right. She brought it up and she got on the board.
1:25:16 Well, see what you didn't know because you wasn't here is we had went through that that that exercise a couple time with pre county before she joined and
1:25:24 then when she bought it up we end up going right back down the same road because we were all trying to do it ourselves and that's why my thought
1:25:32 process hey let's take ourselves out of it somewhat and give it to somebody else to come up with some criterias for us so we don't go end up going down the same
1:25:39 road and and have this come again but if that's that's good 420 if it's all All right. Um, Mr. W, I know I didn't
1:25:48 prepare you for this. And Mr. Van Wagner, I know we had a meeting and we talked about some things earlier this morning. Um, if everybody don't have
1:25:56 time, have a few minutes. Um, they're having problem with with uh a case here
1:26:03 in in talking about u talking about the Sunset Lane. Okay.
1:26:08 Okay. And I would like if you don't mind uh going ahead and explain to the council what's going on and what what one our suggestion is about uh using
1:26:16 state law instead law if we can apply that. Is this a shade?
1:26:21 No, it's not a shade meeting. It's a code enforcement issue.
1:26:24 Um so if if you all do have time and are inclined to listen. Um uh I I guess basically what's happened is we we do
1:26:32 have a a property that has come in and out of compliance several times in the past uh four years. Now I will also say
1:26:41 this isn't the only property we have that kind of a problem. That's fairly common that you know a violation will be identified. It'll be corrected within
1:26:48 the time allowed and maybe it won't even be brought to the board. But the problem is when you have these repeat
1:26:56 violations, whether it's 1919 Sunset Lane or not, um,
1:27:01 we need remedies. And I think as a policy matter, you as the council, um, need to know that you have remedies, uh,
1:27:10 you know, that don't necessarily involve just constantly banging our head against the wall, going back to the board, if you will. The board is actually fairly limited in the remedies that it can do.
1:27:19 It's it can levy fines. Um, and in Claremont, uh, much to my surprise,
1:27:25 really, it's it's only up to 250. You know, I I serve as a special magistrate in Citrus County a day. It's not small. I mean, it's not
1:27:32 chump change, but it's small compared to most local governments where I have the authority to go up to $1,000 a day Citrus County. Now, I've never done
1:27:40 that, but I've gone to 800 based on the health, safety, sanitary issues. Okay,
1:27:46 so back to the issue at hand. Um, this property in particular came up at the hearing last night and a violation. It was the one that came up here too,
1:27:54 right? Not what three months ago. Yes.
1:27:56 Well, the the resident came up neighbor.
1:28:00 It's a problem and and there's additional things going on with the property. The long and short of it is that um we as the city need to start
1:28:10 thinking about when and how we address the solution permanently. The board cannot do that. The board can assess
1:28:19 fines, can put leans on the property to the extent that a fine isn't uh paid,
1:28:25 but there are other remedies. So, for example, Florida paid.
1:28:32 Well, it really hasn't come to the board for a a lean.
1:28:35 They just placed it. Not a lean, but they just placed the fines last time.
1:28:38 Yeah. So, well, they have a time to comply. So, they have 10 days to comply with the uh to fix the violation. If it's not brought into compliance in 10 days, $250 a day.
1:28:49 What is the violation? Well, let her finish his thought. Finish his thought.
1:28:53 Have they been has the word failed to fine in the past or they have?
1:28:57 No, it just hasn't even brought they'll bring it into compliance and then it won't be presented.
1:29:01 Um but but that's so here's the issue. The issue is this.
1:29:05 Um there are properties where this is an issue where the remedy in order to fix it permanently exceeds what the board
1:29:12 can do and there is a state statute that allows us to address nuisances. Uh Florida statute section 60.05.
1:29:23 It's etched in my head even though not prepared. Um and what it does is it gives the city attorney authority to bring nuisance actions. These are old
1:29:31 common law actions that used to exist because you know what would happen in the old days if a if a uh a mill got out
1:29:38 of hand and was polluting the the water downstream. You had to be able to sue them anyway. So that's in our statutes and you could authorize I'm not
1:29:46 proposing this by the way. I'm just saying you have this option but the city attorney can actually sue to enjoin the nuisance. I can go down to the Lake
1:29:54 County court and get an injunction against maybe dogs are running loose and and biting folks. Maybe it's any kind of nuisance you can think of.
1:30:03 And if they if they're enjoined and don't comply, then sanctions start coming from the judge.
1:30:10 Um then leans can start running and we can also foreclose. Um it's something that I think we're going to have to have
1:30:17 a more comprehensive discussion about in the future. But I think it is good that you know um we're trying to assess
1:30:24 permanent or maybe just more leverage. I I don't think and I would never advocate to the city that its policy goal should
1:30:32 be to punish or to take property. Like that's a serious serious thing. Um but
1:30:40 the city does need to have the appropriate leverage to make sure that we don't keep coming back at the same.
1:30:45 The government's role is to preserve life, liberty, and to create environment where the people can pursue their own happiness. And these folks liberty ends
1:30:55 where their neighbors begins. And that's our job to enforce that. That's the purpose of our code.
1:31:00 So that's what a nuisance is. It's some it's where your liberty infringes on my liberty. And you have anybody who is
1:31:07 repeatedly violating a rule like that. You're going to have my support.
1:31:16 I can't imagine an exception that you would have my support moving forward. Right.
1:31:22 Well, here's one of the problem we facing is the fact that we have a few few of these places out
1:31:31 there. And that's one of the reason we went back and we fought hard and put our own little nuisance law in place, but our Newsome law uh ordinance isn't very
1:31:40 strong. It's kind of weak. Okay. For example, it says in there, uh, if I basically I live in this address, if I get have, uh, an arrest this month,
1:31:50 okay, no problem. Even though I got ongoing problem, but you have to have two arrests at this address within a six months period for us to be able to take nuisance action.
1:32:00 The only standard for No, that's well, there's a lot of other standards there, but you know, if they don't occur in within a six months
1:32:07 period, there's nothing we can do. Every six months, the whole the clock starts over. Okay. and everything. So, it's really and we put this in place and I'll
1:32:15 be honest with you, we uh I think you was on the on on the uh council when we put all this in place and it's one of the things I fought for because we have
1:32:24 some problem houses. As I said the other night, one of the reason I'm I got involved with with uh the police department because it's a nuisome house
1:32:32 in my own neighborhood. live right across the street from and it's still a nuisance but and we I've been dealing with it for 15 years or more um since I
1:32:40 started here since 07 I think it is and it's still a problem matter of fact I just had a big fight there last night while I was out and and everything was
1:32:48 big fight there and it's constant things going on and the one house I was actually we were looking at between the
1:32:56 other administration and I and a lawyer before one home that we really um targeting
1:33:04 with the Newsome when we were coming up with this Newsome thing is u soon as we put it in place, guess what? The person moved out. Made the neighborhood so much
1:33:13 better. Okay. But we still have this area over here that's still being dealt with, you know, and it's and I would like to give the neighbors some relief.
1:33:21 They've been dealing with this for for a few years now. And I know how how it feel to have to sit there and deal with that because like I say, I'm still dealing with it in my with one right across from me.
1:33:31 In your opinion and experience based on other staten what elements are missing from our
1:33:40 generally speaking or specifically that you think should be well
1:33:48 I don't know that anything is missing per se what I want to tell you is your your abatement nuisance abatement
1:33:55 statute is based on the Florida statute that enables and it lists a bunch of criteria I'm just saying it's so it is so narrow
1:34:04 and the the the state statute has some of that too. State statute though does have greater remedies for how you resolve it than what our city ordinance
1:34:12 does. So I think the remedies that are available. Um, you know, when I was uh an assistant city attorney for Ocala, we
1:34:20 had an incident where there was a gas station that kept being used as a people kept getting arrested there for um
1:34:29 felony drug transactions basically. And the city council finally told the city attorney, go take the property
1:34:37 basically. And I felt it was unconstitutional at at the time. And and that's why the Florida legislature passed that abatement statute because
1:34:45 now it's enabled the city to when that kind of a transaction happens. It's no longer an argument about whether it's unconstitutional if they satisfy and there's a felony drug transaction.
1:34:56 That's the one exception to the two and six months thing. It's once. Um but uh it's it's a big power. I mean that's my
1:35:04 I I just Well, it's an issue of liberty. So if our ordinance isn't strong enough to preserve liberty in our borders, then it
1:35:11 needs to be stronger. And if it is strong enough and we're not enforcing it, then we need to exercise justice.
1:35:18 We're we're walking through and having that discussion today actually. And I think we'll be presenting some ideas to you.
1:35:26 I mean ongoing but and the reason I asked the him to go ahead and get in this because I if I'm not mistaken if we
1:35:34 want to do anything uh for abatement and everything I think that's have to be a a decision of the council uh and
1:35:41 everything I know the code enforcement board has the authority over the new law and determine but actually final decision whether we going to do anything
1:35:50 if I'm a state if you wanted to unleash me directly yes it has to come back to council And I wanted to make sure you all somewhat up
1:35:58 up to date on some things that we we going to have to try to do. And and and they've been I think they've been taking every step. Even the neighbors and
1:36:06 everything, you know, they commening to the city about how great work they've been doing. They've been doing everything they legally uh can. So, what
1:36:14 else what other action can we get? And I know like like we meant last night, we talked about $250. I think um I think we
1:36:21 was going in with 150 before the case last night, but we we through conversation we decided to shoot it to
1:36:27 the max. See, so you know, so we taking all the actions we somewhat can, but is it giving the neighbors any relief?
1:36:36 Yeah, that's what I say. Maybe the law isn't strong enough.
1:36:41 I wouldn't want all the abatement actions to come to council. Do you just mean when we hire a lawyer to sue or do you mean all the
1:36:50 Well, we don't do many experimenting abatesment. See, and but we're beginning to change that. We starting to try to change all that.
1:36:56 That's what I mean. You know, because right now the way things are, and like I say, this case been going on for years as well because we kind of limited to
1:37:05 what we can do, okay? You know, and when the baitment do come to do decide to go to abatement yet, I think council has to give the final word if I'm not mistaken.
1:37:15 Okay.
1:37:16 Is that a legal question? Why would we not enforce It it depends on what you want the remedy. As long as you're deferring to code enforcement to handle
1:37:24 this, either through notices of code violations or notices to obey, you don't need to be involved. If that's not
1:37:31 getting the job done and you need me to go to a a judge to go get an injunction and the real hammer, if you will, um it's not something you do on every case.
1:37:41 I mean, I've done it for other cities, but only when it was like an emergency,
1:37:46 for example. I had to do it in an emergent because there was a property where uh dogs were running loose um and
1:37:53 people were getting bit and we didn't have time to wait for the code. So I went got the injunction cleaned it up and it was over.
1:38:02 So are we seeking is staff seeking direction on how many times code enforcement needs to hear a case or how many times police need to go to a house before it becomes an abatement issue?
1:38:13 I'd like to ask for a little time to work with your staff on uh finalizing the improvements we're going to make because we're having in-depth
1:38:21 discussions on this across departments about how we're going to handle it and they've been in earnest today and yesterday.
1:38:27 Um yeah,
1:38:29 well, you know, like I say, this is more like u information more or less, not looking for action, but just to inform you on what's going on because I don't
1:38:38 know where we're leading. I think we in the last few days we've had a lot of somewhat improvement from the discussion I got this morning uh with Mr. Van
1:38:47 Wagner and everybody it seemed like um things may be maybe happening as good but uh at the same time um while I'm
1:38:56 here and you mentioned dogs Mr. Van Wagner, I think I think I would like for you to get with the uh Lake County
1:39:04 Animal Protection to understand and really get me an understanding how they can say a dog can run around loose in the neighborhood until they bite somebody, they're not going to do anything. Okay? Seriously bite someone.
1:39:14 I think that I mean that's the most asinine thing I ever heard of. Um you got dogs running around and people tell them they call call animal control.
1:39:24 animal control saying they're not gonna do anything unless the animal seriously bite somebody.
1:39:29 They say that situation we don't know how to handle well yeah but then I may be in jail.
1:39:36 Okay,
1:39:38 I'm a little worried. See I don't think we're No, no. I I I I'm not looking to do all that but you know and that's one of the question came up.
1:39:46 Well, what happened? Nothing. But anyway, Mr. Ben Wagner if um while he think about I meant to ask you to do that today uh when we was talking
1:39:53 earlier and everything but uh cuz I I really need to figure out what how how our animal control can tell this to our
1:40:02 residents and everything and they consider all these dogs running around in the neighborhood free they refuse to
1:40:09 come out. Well, I I would suggest to our to both our attorney and our city manager, if we're finding that there are issues that can't be enforced by the
1:40:18 police or by code enforcement, we just need a revised ordinance. I mean, when the American flag issue came up, we revised our ordinance. When we see
1:40:27 things that aren't strong enough or need to be stronger or or need to go away,
1:40:32 then we revised the ordinance so that staff can do their jobs.
1:40:35 I understand. I mean, I think that there are some things that we can do that we haven't necessarily been doing just because there's a way things have happened for so long. So, for example,
1:40:45 uh sometimes even when a case abates, in other words, they fix the violation before the hearing,
1:40:51 sometimes it's a good idea to still bring the case to the board so that they can make a finding that it happened so that the next time it's a repeat violation and the fine starts from that.
1:41:01 But that's not really been our practice.
1:41:03 But we've talked about that. we're going to start implementing that on these kinds of cases. So yes, and I think if we're going to have the conversation,
1:41:13 we have to include in this conversation,
1:41:15 and it is a it is a change, and it is something that will probably create some some community conversation about
1:41:24 whether or not we want to empower our code enforcement staff to initiate cases rather than require a citizen to put
1:41:33 their name, address on the on the form because that's now what state requires.
1:41:38 Yeah, public um fear of blowback.
1:41:42 They don't and our staff's hand gets tied until someone does and is willing like the individuals who came and have sent us several emails and are, you know,
1:41:53 have spoken at city council about this particular address. They're willing to put their name out there and and file a case. There are neighborhoods that uh
1:42:02 that we've all I'm sure several of us have talked to neighbors where they're like, "I'm not willing to put my name on that complaint."
1:42:09 Yeah.
1:42:11 But right now, we don't allow our code enforcement to to take that initiative without that complaint.
1:42:16 I've had discussions with code about and and I think we we need to Is that just res?
1:42:23 Uh I don't know that it's res that it's just residential. I think it's a it's either doesn't matter. We don't have either the
1:42:30 practice or the ordinance that allows it to happen. And I do think it requires some community conversation about it on
1:42:38 both sides. And I think we need to be judicious about it because I I certainly understand concerns. But at the same time, if we're going to take code
1:42:46 enforcement serious, I think we need to look at kind of all the things on the table and look at how might we create a
1:42:55 system moving forward that would allow our community to address these things in in a way that um that empowers staff but
1:43:04 also doesn't potentially put our residents in a in a compromising situation. Well, if Mr.
1:43:11 correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we used to have that ability to report anonymously. Okay. But then the state
1:43:18 law chang so that that created that problem there for us. The state created that another problem for us. So we can't do
1:43:24 anonymously. Um Christian, correct me if I'm wrong. We can still act as the complaint. Yes.
1:43:32 So we just need direction from But that is council direction. Proactive. We can but wait. And we have Right. Okay.
1:43:40 While I've been the city attorney. So, I'm not sure where the disconnect is,
1:43:44 but I know we have served as the complainant on some code violations.
1:43:49 Right. And I think what we just need is council directive to be proactive. I see. We don't need to change any ordinance. We just need council to tell us.
1:43:57 Yeah. Nothing is require code is not required to stick their head in the sand when they drive around town.
1:44:03 Right. And I'm sorry. And that's where I said I don't know if it's actually code or if it's just more of a direction of what council's will is to for
1:44:12 direction for the city manager and the staff to be able to say we don't we want you to be proactive in this enforcement.
1:44:21 Uh and and if that means we have to kind of create a criteria level that for that then yeah we do. Um but I think right
1:44:29 now it's been the the standard operating procedure has been that it's a little bit more on the
1:44:36 reactive side and there have been the exceptions where the staff has initiated but it defers to be more reactive
1:44:44 and we can definitely go proactive with your direction and we can set levels because there may be a staffing implication that we may need more staff
1:44:52 if we go a lot more proactive but that's the direction of the council. Correct. Correct.
1:44:59 And and and I guess one of the reason I mean I didn't think we going to get neatly wrong with discussion about it,
1:45:05 but the one of the reason I wanted to make you all aware of some of the things going on because basically it's going to probably take uh our direction
1:45:13 eventually make in case it does you you aware of what's going on. Okay. And I'm sorry for you know I know you weren't prepared. I love it. I got to hear my voice.
1:45:21 appreciate it, man.
1:45:23 And everything, you know, but but uh last thing I want to say and I and and not to really get in another long
1:45:31 discussion, which they could keep in consideration, I know Miss Meyers served on the code enforcement board. I served on the code enforcement board, but we got some members on the code enforcement
1:45:40 board because the nuisance law, they're have they're the ones supposed to deal with that, too. But some of them uh our
1:45:47 board members don't want to have to do that when it come they don't feel like they should do that. So um we may need to consider going back to a magistrate
1:45:56 and I know you don't like it. I don't like magistrate with for but the code enforcement board because I'm hearing we got members that's requesting to come off now.
1:46:04 Okay.
1:46:05 Can we but can we do magistrate for just uh abatement? Yeah. Versus uh code enforcement, right?
1:46:13 We could. Yeah. Okay.
1:46:16 Why not do this whole board because I I can tell you Yeah. We serve together and and it's a it truly is
1:46:24 honestly a valuable experience to understand the complexities of of these types of things because what you know
1:46:32 uh someone who lives next to it may feel is look I'm having to live next to us but there is a there has to be some sort of criteria that that a city has to meet
1:46:41 in order to take some sort of action because we are talking about property and liberties and so forth. Um, and I I I I I would like to see us keep our code
1:46:50 enforcement board. I also fully get where the difference between code enforcement and and nuisance abatement.
1:46:58 And I would I would support us uh exploring u a magistrate for nuisance abatement
1:47:05 um purposes only and keeping code enforcement board. I agree with that. I think citizens.
1:47:10 All right. Just like I said, I didn't want to get in another long discussion.
1:47:13 Just just want to throw some things out there that we we probably have to take a look at sooner or later and everything because they there are issues that's out there and
1:47:22 everything and I know you all probably not aware of but but I'm getting calls about this kind of stuff on a regular basis.
1:47:30 Did you enforce our laws?
1:47:33 Well, it's it's hard to enforce some things. Like I say, I coming home last night from a place and I guess all my
1:47:42 neighbors calling me last night, what's going on? What's going on? I don't know.
1:47:45 I'm not home. You know, I called my chief and he tell me it's a big call came in the big fight and I get of course I get home it's it's gone.
1:47:55 I get on my cameras and yeah I can see the big fight. It was pretty about maybe seven at least six eight people that was
1:48:02 involved right there on the corner. You know of course every time these kind of things go on who the first person they
1:48:09 call me. see in the neighbor when they see the police lights and everything.
1:48:14 What was it? Uh last week it was the armed robbery that came through the neighbor, you know, right there in the back of the neighborhood, you know,
1:48:21 thing when Dixie, I'm coming home and turned the corner. I see all these lights flashing, you know. Oh man,
1:48:26 what's going on? Of course, my phone start ring. Okay. I don't know. Let me call and find out. And of course, thank thank God chief had already text me. I
1:48:35 didn't realize it because I hadn't been on my phone. I didn't realize it. I just picked up the phone to call him be. Of course, after I talked with him, I real he did text me and everything and find
1:48:43 out what's going on. But, you know, uh so these things are here and of course was happening and I I had to deal with
1:48:51 him. I remember not long ago council uh we had a shooting in the neighborhood.
1:48:56 I'm sitting up here on the dis and I'm getting textes on the dis. They done sent me texts on D. Oh, all this activity going on. You know, I don't know. I'm in council meeting. Okay. So,
1:49:06 it it's things going on out there. Um,
1:49:12 and not all of it is I think it's places like 1919 and bless. Yeah. And
1:49:20 like the one in front of me, the house in front of me because they all hungry and they all out of the community all know one. See, so how how can we make
1:49:28 our laws and ordinance a little bit stronger that we can take a little bit more uh stronger action. Okay. My support.
1:49:36 Oh, thank you. Oh, anybody else that have anything for the good of the Just add one real quick question there.
1:49:43 The criteria that you want Christian and I to work on, do you have a time frame for us back to you?
1:49:50 I think next month's pretty busy.
1:49:53 Uh yeah, before budget, I think when we do our budget, that would be a good time because this is kind of visioning oriented as well.
1:50:00 I think I heard Mr. Mr. Uh Bane talk about trying to get everything in place by by at the end of the year, right? Is that what I heard?
1:50:09 Well, I I think moving forward it might make sense if we were going to do annually to kind of have that after a new council. You do kind of review the
1:50:18 previous goals and set the new ones with that new council. Um that makes sense.
1:50:22 But again, it can be whatever we want to try to create. Um, I think the first time around, depending upon when we do,
1:50:30 it may not match and align with what all the future processes might look like.
1:50:36 And so if if this one doesn't work with what we envision moving long term,
1:50:41 that's okay. Uh but I I I do think earlier the better so that we can start
1:50:48 the process and and get some expectations on the table and and review and also start talking about goals and
1:50:56 aspirations um and strategic vision um as it ties into the budget.
1:51:05 I work at the council's pleasure.
1:51:07 It's a list of like we have a May workshop. Is the May workshop pre-budget? Is that what we established on the on the agenda that
1:51:15 sheet that we approved? I think wasn't it May was budget. Yeah, it was.
1:51:20 I mean I I think we could easily hit that. I I don't have any trouble.
1:51:23 Can you give us the list by next week and then we get it to the staff and give them two weeks.
1:51:29 I don't want to overload it. I mean I'm giving give them a time to work. Uh I I see get us as she list in a month within months or
1:51:38 week because I I can say I think I heard Mr. Bane say we want to try to have if we can get everything in place by the end of the year. I think you know give
1:51:46 them time to put the list together. We come back and we can narrow it down and work on it and try to get every uh thing in place by the end of the year. So no problem.
1:51:54 That's not put totally fine.
1:51:58 What did we decide? I'm sorry. We were talking about the workshop and then there was the other piece 30 days
1:52:05 uh the pre uh the first list and everything we go through. Okay. Cool. Okay. All right. Thank you, sir.
1:52:13 Thank you. And nothing else? No. Meeting a journ.