Clermont City Council Workshop Transcript 5/19/26

7:39 Well, good afternoon everyone. The mayor said he's running a little behind, so I will be uh stepping in for him.
7:48 Um, Mr. Van Wagner, do we have any changes? Anything that you want us to be aware of?
7:53 No, ma'am. We are good to go and ready for your discussion.
7:57 All right. So, we just go around. Is that all good? Sure. Okay. You want to want to start?
8:06 I don't know.
8:07 I don't What What is the plan from staff? I guess. So the plaintist staff has just kind of listened to few months ago we did this little exercise where
8:14 you guys all put threw priorities up on a whiteboard and then ranked them. So this is the how they laid out is what I
8:21 put in front of you. Um and I know that there was some talk about looking at these priorities as we get ready to
8:29 start the budget. Drawing up the budget to see if anything has changed or any anything is added, subtracted or orders
8:37 have changed or anything like that. So, leaving it to council to discuss it.
8:46 If you're not ready, I can go with someone else. No, I'm not. Thank you. No worries. Sure. Okay.
8:54 I can usually talk on the spot. Um so I look at the priorities through a lens of
9:03 we're working on our comprehensive plan and our comprehensive plan has a certain number of elements to it and so you know
9:11 the item complete the comprehensive plan to me almost everything on this list is actually part of the comprehensive plan.
9:23 So I fear if we get into a approach with staff of these are our top priorities,
9:33 what we're doing I think might be akin to treating the symptom rather than the problem, which is kind of getting ahead of
9:41 ourselves in a way. Um, and I almost felt like looking at when we're looking at the comprehensive plan, maybe some of
9:50 this, like when we look at walkability, um,
9:57 street lights, golf cart paths, all of these relate to transportation,
10:07 you know, and then when we look at library, that relates to education.
10:13 which is one of the comprehensive plan elements. Um, safety, top 10 safest, EMS, six minute response time, even
10:22 getting into street lights. Like all of this is safety, water and sewer, really, you know, that's probably its own element. So, I think they all relate in
10:32 the context of we're working on the comprehensive plan right now, right?
10:36 And so, that's kind of what I keep coming back to. So for me as a council member, my two priorities I would say top two if
10:45 I had to narrow it down would be finish the comprehensive plan as soon as possible so that we can make clear decisions on a lot of these other
10:54 questions and then second reduce the millillage. I think most of you know why I got here and how I got here and you know when I
11:03 started this journey for me we were at 4.21 for about two decades. So there's a number for us. I like having clear goals. Um so those for me those are the
11:12 two things and to the extent we need to talk about within the comprehensive plan you know walkability clearly three out of five of us there's a majority vote
11:20 there that's important. So why is walkability important and I think it would help for staff and the public to know why that's important. Is it
11:27 important because the way I look at it we want to be a safe place for families to raise their children. We want affordable housing where people can get
11:36 to work and job and grocery without having to have a car. The golf carts relate to that. So, I think all of that's consistent if the vision is we
11:44 want to be a safe place to raise your family, to be born and to die, that you can do all of those things. You know, the dash, you can do the whole dash right here in Clermont.
11:53 So, I might be going too high level on this, but I feel like this is a visioning thing. What what is the timeline now for the comprehensive plan?
12:03 Great question. I was about to ask. Anybody in the room?
12:07 No, we keep on, you know, is it have is it six months, three months?
12:11 Better not be six months. I can speak a little bit.
12:16 Well, the contract has it to wrap things up, but processes last week.
12:42 comprehensive plan. There's two big components of it.
13:05 You're saying November?
13:07 Well, that's when they're legally obligated to do it. The hope is
13:22 is is the November dated at transmitt or adoption. Also,
13:54 is is the contractual completion requirement date the same for the zoning the the code part of it as well as the comp plan part of it
14:02 understand the only reason I ask is because the only reason I ask is because your comp plan is your base you know and
14:11 everything after that including the code follows is straight jacketed by the comp plan so it's like that is the cart it's
14:19 no it's the horse the comp plan is the horse and then the code is the cart so So related to that, 12 of the 17 items
14:26 on here all fall under the elements that the comprehensive plan will address, right?
14:32 And so um so for me those are the two most important and then I look at most of
14:41 these other things and say these are details underneath the bigger umbrella of the comprehensive plan. Um I Bryan, I don't want to call you out.
14:52 My recollection is that the but maybe I'm I'm recalling wrong. Was the first time buyers financial education for youth? Was that one of yours?
15:01 That was mine. That was yours.
15:03 So is that education? Was it home affordability? What what was it? All of the things. What was the It falls under all of them, but I can't remember exactly what I listed it as.
15:15 Could we say it's a it would be consistent with creating a environment that makes it
15:24 uh gives the children of Clermont as they become adults an opportunity to own a home. Yes.
15:29 Okay. So family the dash in the middle. You can live you can be born and you can die and you can do everything. Yes. Yeah. So um I think
15:37 that that fits under the comp. So we're you know 13 of these 17. So I don't know as we approached this what I've observed
15:45 in the audience when I was in the audience was what I felt in my observation was that as we as a
15:52 community have gone through the budget process in years past it's kind of like well staff would do all this work to say
16:00 this is what we think the budget should be but then it's hard I think as a council member to say well thanks for doing a
16:07 100 hours of work we want to start over right I just don't think that's fair, which is why I asked that we do this.
16:13 Um, and I want to make sure that we are being responsible with our responsibility to have a vision and to
16:21 give staff parameters around the budget and that we can talk about policies, but this is vision and budgeting. So, that's
16:28 why I am glad that we're doing this. So, to the extent individual projects need to be addressed, then I'm happy to do
16:36 that today. It's probably a terrible way to start, but that's where I'm at. Okay. If it makes any sense, it's fine.
16:45 But you're also saying a lot of these things are hinged on what the plan is going to come in November. So, it could be leading us we might have a discussion
16:53 now about something and it might not come to fruition if if the if they come up with a different plan. Well, and
17:01 no, I'm talking about specifics like, you know, let's say a multimotal, you know, like let's say we decide, okay, we'd like to have multimodal traffic
17:10 down on Tro and let's take out those parking spots and make that, you know, so I mean, if we try to make that decision today as a a priority, and it
17:18 might not be a priority because it might be something else.
17:21 Well, I'm glad you say, yeah, I'm glad you frame it like that because what I don't want to do is outsource our responsibility to the comprehensive planning team,
17:28 right? So what I like about doing this and having this conversation is I will say to you I think it's a fantastic idea
17:36 to create multimmodal transportation opportunities because I'm coming from a mindset of I want Clermont to be a safe
17:43 place for families and a good place for people to raise their families and I want to create affordable and I'm using
17:50 the lowercase A. I'm not looking I'm personally not advocating for a subsidized, but I am looking for affordable housing solutions,
17:57 particularly for young people who are starting out and empty nesters who are downsizing from large homes. I don't want people to feel like they have to leave our community.
18:08 Exactly. So for me, golf cart, multimodal, walking trails, bike paths, especially maybe a trail system that
18:17 gets you to schools, groceries, um work spaces, recreational places so that you
18:23 don't have to get in your car, or maybe two parents, one income, you only need to have one car, you know, that type of
18:32 situation. So for me, all of those things are consistent with what I see as the vision of creating a safe place for families and entrepreneurs. I think
18:40 small business is something I hear a lot from people in our community. I hear a lot we don't want more big box stores.
18:46 We don't want um you know, we we don't want to be, you know, the Kroger situation, you know, caused a lot of awareness of the dangers
18:55 of bringing in a big business who's not from here, for example. having big business that grew up here and the owners live here is fantastic. Yeah,
19:03 we like that. Um, so I think entrepreneurship, small business, these are all things that if we all agree. I think it helps
19:11 drive the comprehensive plan and it makes some of these questions easier to answer.
19:16 I I thought that part of the point of this was to give staff direction for their budget though for figuring out items. I mean, not just comp plan
19:23 vision, but like so that no one's ambushed as they prepare for the budget items. Exactly.
19:29 And so I think that's kind of where it what's supposed to be driving the conversation.
19:34 That's fair. Thank you for keeping me on track. So I look and say we have transportation, safety, recreation.
19:43 There are others, but those are kind of the categories that I think um jump out at me. I like talking about water and
19:51 sewer because I'm hearing a lot coming out of Tallahassee that we want to protect public safety and in the conversation about potentially cutting
19:59 property taxes, but my priority would be to protect our water, right, and our sewer. So, I would like to know if we're all on the same page on that.
20:08 There was only one vote on that one, but I think that's probably the most important thing. I believe I agree with you on that one.
20:14 We won't take drinking water in the long run.
20:17 Well, it would kill us all if We need water, right? That's we need water.
20:23 It's may not be the sexiest thing that we do, but I think it's probably the most important. Um, is that something that we agree on?
20:32 I agree with that.
20:33 Well, I think there's, you know, we've talked about whether or not we want to see an emphasis placed on reclaimed and reuse water be a part of irrigation. And
20:42 I would consider that to be a part of that category. Um, and so if if it's a priority, I don't know where currently
20:49 and maybe the the city manager or uh department heads can can answer in public works about where where they're
20:57 looking or where they've had conversations about reclaimed or reuse water and what priorities are currently existing related to that and water and sewer to see if we're on that same path.
21:09 Um, I thought that that primarily I think probably for me would have would have been the approach I would have preferred is to hear kind of where they
21:17 where departments were heading to to not necessarily say we approve but to say you're on the right track. Here are some
21:26 thoughts otherwise or to say nah none of us are really interested in pursuing
21:32 agenda X. Uh, so maybe that may not be a good idea to include that in the budget at this point to then get to that point where it's actually proposed.
21:43 I like that.
21:44 Well, and I think that where I view this particular setting that we're in is we I thought we had all
21:51 day originally and now we're down to a couple hours. Couple hours. Yeah.
21:55 And so if we went through each department doing even a 10-minute presentation, that takes up the whole two hours. So, um, so on on the
22:03 reclaimed reuse, I'm glad you bring that up.
22:06 My feelings as it retains as it pertains to water are that water is a finite resource. I'm also mindful that we sit
22:14 over the aquafer on the Lake Wales ridge and it's very important section of the state and I think we have an extraordinary duty to our fellow
22:23 Floridaidians not to be halfhazard with how we approach the natural water that's coming out of the earth.
22:29 Yes. Um, and also how we waste it. Um, and I mean that not in the I know what you mean.
22:35 I mean in the context of water waste. So I love the idea of reclaimed reuse, but I end up in the context of balancing
22:44 um millillage. You know, it is important to me that we cut the millillage. So not that we just spend whatever, but we do
22:52 have funds available. If reclaimer reuse was considered a top priority project, then perhaps that's something that we spend the funds that we have
23:01 saved over time on because it would be a capital project versus an ongoing maintenance conversation.
23:06 So, do we want to figure out on this list here which ones we want to put as the top priority
23:13 and go from there? So, then we can see what our department has, how that all works together as like Bryan suggested.
23:20 I don't mind that approach. I think that sounds like it could work.
23:26 Yeah, I think it's I mean, you know, we're going to rescore now.
23:30 Well, what we have up here? Yeah. I mean, are we still Does everyone still feel the same way with the number how we scored it? That was in February, right?
23:39 Yeah. So, I see recreation, transportation, safety coming up the most often.
23:49 Yep. And then education, um, community engagement could be
23:57 considered education potentially. And so that's right there in there. So education comes up as well.
24:05 So if we talk about transportation, safety, education,
24:12 and then we get into kind of a health, we have six minute and EMS go together.
24:18 Exactly. Yeah, which is a safety goes into that category.
24:23 So health and safety if we look at if we expand safety into health but that then that also health gets us into water and
24:32 sewer right um so somewhere in the health
24:40 so health and public safety water sewer I mean these are the fundamental roles of government right that's what we just
24:47 nailed down Um and then we get into parks and recreation, transportation
24:54 and recreation or well yeah I don't see anything else on here.
25:03 So we have said that health, recreation and transportation based on this list
25:11 are the top priorities. And I don't know if we want to include the village in there or not.
25:16 Well, it's probably a good thing considering that's 70 I think 70 some percent of our budget is police, fire, and public works. Sure.
25:26 So, I think that's always going to be our priority when that is the case. Can I may I ask a question of maybe the city
25:33 manager? Um, currently as you're working with department heads, um, what is the plan
25:43 in discussions of how you're presenting a budget? Are you presenting one budget and this is the budget that you're
25:52 recommending council approval of? Are you presenting this is a budget at this millage rate, this is a budget at this
26:01 millage rate, this is a budget that prioritizes X or Y.
26:06 That might help me kind of be able to provide some additional feedback going into planning for that July 8th and 9th
26:14 um those workshops, those all day workshops.
26:18 Your your philosophy on the millillage would be very helpful as a group because Okay. If it's one, Mr. Bain from one end
26:27 to the other, it makes it very, very difficult.
26:30 So, if I could get a philosophy, okay, today that would help Scott and I tremendously to know what you all are thinking out of the gate. So, that would
26:39 be the first thing I'd say. Last year, we did a real tedious time of going through every department
26:47 and I' we've been thinking that it's not perhaps the best way to do that. so fin
26:54 and looking at it more in a higher level than a real superdetailed in every single department because some
27:02 of our bigger departments are going to be where you're going to want to spend the majority of your time looking at things.
27:08 Yeah. And I think I think for me it's beneficial to understand and know um
27:15 for example staffing um where we've grown our staff in in what areas by by what percentages. What
27:25 does that look like for our budget and and why what is how does that align with the priorities that we've established?
27:34 because those things carry multi-year effects and and not just a let's go buy
27:41 this item for this year and that may be an expense for this year.
27:45 Um and I think that that would be helpful to understand some of those things. Um
27:52 and also then too what additional staffing might be being proposed
27:59 and is it a net gain or is it a a wash because we're we're reallocating
28:06 resources within the organization so that we're not adding FTE overall. Um, that's something that I think would be
28:14 helpful to look at from that higher level perspective. Um, and I agree I don't I don't need to
28:22 necessarily say whether or not your um a particular department's
28:30 supply budget is adequate or not. I I don't I don't need to necessarily get to that detail. Uh but I would like to
28:37 know, hey, it's a it's a zero dollar increase or 0% increase overall. These are the top three or four areas that
28:46 we've maybe if a budget if a department has increased, these are the top three or four areas they have increased. here are the three or four areas that if
28:54 there were any decreases from year-over-year what they were and and then why you know what was that what was that thought process of making that
29:02 proposal to us to approve through that process that helps I think could help us guide the conversation of okay we we
29:10 don't get too tied into specific numbers but we get into we get tied into a picture of what is happening in that
29:17 department or than all departments as a city budget. Do you have any interest in staff approaching this from a zerobased budgeting perspective where you're starting at zero?
29:26 You know, I've always been a fan of um I can go I can go multiple ways on this. I I think it's I think there's one
29:34 philosophy where you could say the city manager is the CEO.
29:38 Present your budget to the board and let that let the board, you know, work on that, right? Um, I also think that it
29:47 could be beneficial to help the board, the council understand that if you want to maintain a millage rate, for example,
29:56 from the same millage rate as last year, this is what a budget might look like and these would be the priorities.
30:02 If we were to entertain increasing a millage, this is what potentially would be done and why. if we decrease here
30:09 would because I think doing that upfront maybe eliminates some of the conversation later down the road where it's like well if we don't now do this
30:18 then we have to cut this. If we have those conversations up front and we can say okay I'm willing to accept um a a
30:26 status quo millage rate because it fulfills these priorities.
30:32 I'm I'm not willing to entertain a lower millage rate because if it cuts this program, but I wouldn't necessarily be
30:40 opposed to a lower millage rate if we could work that that would include different things. So, I think having that conversation up front with multiple budget proposal, I know that's
30:48 additional work and I don't want to get into a create, you know, 10 budgets. Uh but I I do think uh overall if you kind
30:56 of knew uh I think numbers and cents dollars and cents wise there's a way to know about okay for every x amount of
31:03 dollars you spend it's so much millage and so if we have that philosophy going into it we can kind of see what it would
31:11 do overall if we made some alter I like that I was going to suggest that you took the word I like it yeah I like that because I think it make us more fair we
31:20 know you know what I'm saying because like you said, we can have a a list of 25 things we want, but if we have the
31:27 millage too low, it's not going to fulfill those things. You know what I'm saying? Like you're Yeah. I don't think anybody up here I'll speak for myself. I wouldn't sit here
31:36 and say, I need you to bring me a budget that increases the millillage.
31:40 I I don't have a Well, but I mean, I don't have a good that would I have no evidence to say that we need a budget that, you know, that increases millage.
31:47 Right. Right. Um, I also on the reverse side of that am not willing to say it right now today, bring me a budget and I want to I'm going to only approve a
31:55 budget that decreases the millage rate because I don't know what that budget looks like. And that's why I think having some ideas as to, you know,
32:02 philosophically, here's what we might propose if we did status quo, a decrease, and and then here are the other wild cards if we punch in, pull
32:11 out, move move around, kind of move the puzzle pieces.
32:15 And then we have that into the into the discussion picture of the budget.
32:19 Before I forget, what I forgot, what is our millage rate right now?
32:23 59 59. We cut it 29% last time but it's 4.59 4.5
32:31 and when we when we did the large increase back in 2022 we had been at 4.21 for 20 years as we had ongoing
32:39 growth um we've annexed a a great number of properties um so I believe we will see I
32:48 I let me just put this out there I would like to see a budget at 4.21 21.
32:53 I'm I'm with you, Bryan. I think seeing I would like to see 4.21, whatever is the roll back, whatever is maintenance
33:02 because we're going to see an extraordinary growth. There's no doubt about it. Property values have gone up and we've annexed hundreds.
33:10 Yeah, but I think that could be an arguable point.
33:12 Well, let's do this. If the if if we get that if we get the the report, what is it?
33:20 the DS420 or whatever it's called from from the from the county and we don't have an increase. I would agree with you. I
33:28 think there's a a further discussion that needs to be had.
33:30 And when when do we get when will we know what the roll back rate is and all those numbers?
33:35 It could be this month or last year was July. Okay. But Mark was new.
33:41 We've already reached out to Mark and asked him for it. Yeah.
33:44 Is there like a statutory thing that they have to give us that information? It's July. Yeah.
33:49 Is it July? Okay. So, is it like the 1 of July? No, soon enough. It's early in July, isn't it? Yes. We're hoping it's soon.
33:56 Okay. Because that could help us I to that point of thinking about things from a a
34:04 current mill age, a roll back mill age, and then maybe some additional roll back from there. It'd be good to know what those numbers would look like and not
34:13 just be more abstract and say X when uh growth maybe exceeds our
34:20 expectations or doesn't exceed our expectations and we're having to redo all of that already.
34:25 I wish that Gosh, that really makes it problematic that that's July.
34:29 It is July one and then we have 35 days to announce it.
34:33 It was very Yeah, that's problematic for budget process. Do we have any idea from Mark's office if they're expecting an increase if we stay at the current millillage?
34:42 We may not have the roll back rate, but do we do they give us any indication on what our expected collections would be?
34:49 We haven't we haven't heard back from them yet. Okay.
34:51 You put a call you put we're waiting to hear. Okay.
34:56 So, how do we feel about uh asking staff if you'll indulge me at a 4.21 a roll back and a current to start with?
35:08 Because here's the reality. We have several million dollars sitting in our general fund reserves. So we reducing from 4.59 to 4.21.
35:16 Yeah.
35:17 Didn't have everybody work to that. This is where you going to work to.
35:21 And I think Bryan makes a good point about if if you look at what's the lowest. I guess the question I'm asking really is what might be the lowest. I'm
35:28 putting 4.21 out there. And what might be the highest? The highest.
35:32 And then there's something in the middle.
35:34 I do think a roll back is an important legal question of what might could be and I think current is an important legal question of what might could be.
35:46 Um yeah I I I don't know that I'm I I am
35:54 tied to an idea of a specific number. I like the idea of current millage roll back rate.
36:02 um because those those are talked about every year, right? Those number those two numbers are always talked about regardless of what they are. Um because
36:11 they they have significance, right? It's what we charge last year and what we would charge this year to capture the same amount of money. And so regardless
36:19 of what those numbers are, they have meaning. Um, and so, um, I outside of that though, I to just pull
36:29 a number, and I understand where you're getting the number, so I'm not saying that you're making up the number, okay?
36:34 But to say arbitrarily, I want to be at that number. I don't have a need to prioritize that from a council
36:42 prioritization. I think that's an individual prioritization. Um if if the city manager presents a budget to me
36:49 that says council, I've delivered you a budget that meets the priorities that you've established at a
36:58 all right 4.21 or 4.29 or what whatever the number. I would much rather give the city manager that ability to do that
37:07 knowing that we really are interested in not potentially exceeding from a philosophical standpoint where the
37:15 millage rate was last year or potentially where the roll back rate would be this year based off of numbers.
37:22 Um but I don't necessarily have a need to go with a specific number outside of those at this point. And and for clarification because I don't know that
37:29 we've ever talked about it is one of the things that has substantially changed for Clermontians over the last
37:36 six years has been the average cost of running our government per individual
37:42 and that number has doubled in the last six years.
37:47 So inflation's gone up a certain amount and that is a real thing. But that's what I look at is say okay as as I live
37:56 here and I'm dealing with more traffic you know there should be an efficiency in the growth that we have. So as a
38:05 citizen the cost per citizen since we're growing the benefit of the growth should at
38:12 least correspond to the cost of the growth. And right now the folks who have been here for a longer period of time
38:19 are bearing the cost of the of the of the new development and the new construction in an increased per
38:26 individual cost of living. And so that's where I'm coming from. So perhaps we could approach it like having staff look
38:34 at, you know, what was the cost of living in 2021 so that we're getting postcoid and we're not dealing with the
38:44 the the huge inflation of COVID and how close can we get with the with the uh inflationary costs to the 2021 numbers,
38:52 whatever that is. And if it's not 4.21, it's not 4.21. But that's really what's driving my desire to to drive it back is
39:01 that fact that it's costing more for people who when you talk to them would say, "Well, I had quiet enjoyment of my
39:08 city and now I have to share it. I'm g Joe, don't get mad at me. I have to share it with all these new people, right?"
39:16 Um I I can't see your face, so I can't tell. But, you know, it's we we want to bring in new people, right?
39:23 But collectively, that should be a better financial arrangement for all of us. Yeah.
39:28 Not costing but more per person.
39:31 But the other side to that though is that stuff goes up. That's why I say looking at inflation.
39:37 So if we take that number and we look at what the inflation cost, your food, all of that, that has nothing to do with the citizens that live here, but it's not double.
39:46 And that's that's where I'm coming back and saying, you know, I'm I'm just trying to make it so that we somewhat I personally feel like we went sideways and and I'm bringing that to the table.
39:58 I I get that. Um, and maybe it's irrational, it could be emotional, but I feel like we got sideways in 2022. And
40:06 that's absolutely something that's important to me. And to your point, Bryan, I mean, if if Rick can bring it
40:13 back and it's it's lower, I appreciate that. um that that sentiment, but I stood at the podium in 22 and as a
40:21 citizen asked our council at the time to please provide a budget that would show
40:28 what those cuts would be to keep things as they were.
40:32 And I was told by the city manager at the time, well, I serve at the pleasure of the council. And I asked those council members to please ask for that
40:41 budget and they didn't. And so I'm putting myself back where I was as a citizen and saying, "What would I want?" Right?
40:48 And as a citizen, I just want to go through the exercise. And if it turns out that we're cutting too much, I mean, I I have to live with that as a
40:56 representative. But also, I think it's something that I feel I owe to the people.
41:03 Yeah. I don't I I I think that looking at it I kind of keep using go back to the analogy of like a puzzle of putting
41:11 things together and moving moving some things and hearing hearing what a complete puzzle looks like or a picture because that's what the puzzle puts
41:19 together, right? A picture of what you know utilize procurement for a department. Um this is what the
41:26 procurement department picture looks like for the next fiscal year, right?
41:31 Um, and these are this is why they proposed that. This is what goals it's going this budget's going to allow it to
41:39 accomplish based off of guidance from city manager, based off guidance from council. Um, and maybe there's some new
41:48 things. Maybe that's some stuff that we haven't done before that that you know, uh, Mr. Suarez says, "Hey, I based off
41:56 all these conversations, I think we should do this because it's going to improve. is going to be a one-time upfront cost. We may say, "Great, keep
42:03 it in there, but we also need to keep in line with kind of where we were numbers-wise last year. So, are there other areas that we might be able to
42:11 shift around or move around? Take this piece and move it here, this piece over to here that would allow us to do that and still be at a level that's
42:19 acceptable. Or if not, then we have to then make that decision with that department. we're good with what where
42:27 it is and we know overall the the running list of what's adding to the millillage uh difference from last year to this
42:36 year. We may have to make some adjustments elsewhere to compensate for that and that's that bigger piece over here.
42:42 When you say that it makes me think okay staff's looking for direction um which is the purpose of this meeting. I one
42:50 thing that I've thought several times as I sit up on the dis is you know it's 2026 and there's now this thing called
42:57 AI that I'm never going to learn. I just want to put that out there. But don't say that you will.
43:02 There there is Well, you're right. I might have to teach my kids and then I'll have to learn. Um, but there's all this new technology that
43:11 in theory could automate many of our processes. And um, that can sound for anyone who might panic that can sound
43:19 like, oh, cut positions, but I think we're growing so much that AI and technology has the potential to actually keep us from not not having to cut
43:28 positions, but not necessarily having to add positions.
43:31 And so, um, because we are growing and we are going to need We're 26 square miles with more downtowns coming. I mean, there's going
43:40 to be more to do to that point. I think like for AI, if someone we can utilize AI in a way that's not a frontline sure person, but a I'm going on the website.
43:50 How do I apply for a building? How do I I'm I'm pulling a tree out. What do I do in city of Clermont? And it
43:59 synthesizes that data rather than having to call, talk to someone, get that information, get a call back. I think that that's where we could right now
44:07 today start to utilize some of that technology, but it's gonna it's going to be some upfront cost, right? But that's a great example of how we could utilize AI in
44:16 our work that would that would improve communication, which I think is one of the items, right? But also, you know, help our departments.
44:24 Sure.
44:25 And maintain our staff so that they're not spending so much time doing those types of things and actually doing daily actually getting to
44:33 to their job. So, I I'm gonna go out on a limb and say because we we're three months out.
44:40 I know I'm overwhelmed with technology and AI and so I'm gonna put my junk on staff on this one. Can we maybe send the
44:48 message today that hey, we would love to see some tech solutions that help us be more efficient and that we would like to see that as part of the 27 budget.
44:59 I would I would definitely as a philosophical approach to the budget.
45:03 absolutely stress tech solutions and and um um y advancements. Yeah. Yeah.
45:11 So because that will help us keep the millillage down collaboration even if there's collaborative efforts that could be done in those solutions too. So I like that.
45:20 Um, also one of the big issues has been, as I was going through this process with Scott last year, the cost of our health
45:28 care for employees is one of our single most um detrimental to a growing budget
45:36 line items. In other words, if we don't get our medical costs per employee to stop growing as fast as it's growing
45:43 because it's in the 20 to 30% range on a normal year, we can't keep up with that with you mostly residential community.
45:51 And even if we could keep up with it on the commercial front, it's going to be um we'd use all our money towards health costs. I mean, if we reached out to like, you know, Florida cities to get there.
46:02 Oh, you had a post. I can talk about it now because we're in a public forum. I love what you put on Facebook about the different options for healthcare, right?
46:11 Um I would love to see in the 27 budget some solution that gives our employees and staff and frankly even our citizens,
46:18 small business owners some sort of solution that lowers cost for health care but also increases the care that
46:26 the quality of the care. So versus we have two hospitals here. Uh we have so many different health care providers
46:34 because of our connection with the athletics. There's like cuttingedge stuff here in Clermont. So if we could help organize that, not only could our
46:42 employees benefit from it, but potentially small businesses in the community could benefit from it as well.
46:48 So do you think it's realistic that we're going to get something lower with more benefits? I do.
46:57 You've been working on it.
46:59 I have diligently worked on it and I don't have I don't see it.
47:04 I don't have the golden key yet. I mean, but I can promise you it's been a something we've spent hours and hours
47:11 and hours HR, Scott, myself, we're we're looking at every option. We're talking to the hospitals. We're talking to
47:17 vendors. We're we're doing all the due diligence, talking to our agents. I mean, I promise you it's it's a priority
47:25 and I just I don't have the answers for it yet.
47:27 Healthcare is expensive. That's why I'm just Yeah.
47:30 And I think gosh, that if that rises after the kind of the evaluation process, I think that would be an
47:38 incredible example of a strategic directive and and expectation for the city manager moving into the next
47:46 calendar year of saying, "Okay, this is a top priority." uh is exploring the
47:53 health care provided to our employees and what are our options. not just
48:00 current existing but also uh looking at new solutions or new ideas that might be available and bring that
48:09 back to us by you know we put it we put a a date in there right and
48:16 you know he's already got a jump start on it if that's a goal that we put together in the process um we have that come back and it may be it may honestly
48:25 be that they say look we have shaken every right.
48:30 We took every tree and this is what we have available to us. This is just truly what we have available to us given where we are right
48:39 now and we know that then and we have to plan for that and we have to address that. But it may be okay council we have
48:47 some hold on to your chairs some ideas of like how we could be maybe a little radical or a little new innovative in
48:56 this way that okay we're going to listen we're going to talk about that but I don't know how we I where I get a little uncomfortable
49:04 saying for a priority for this budget is the effect right now without engaging
49:13 our personel now um is I I'm very concerned about and I want to make sure that we have a process
49:20 by which our our represented and non-represented employees are engaged and involved in this conversation process.
49:29 That's that's appropriate. We we made some changes to our plan with our employees to actually lower things right
49:38 than they were going to be. And Naen can speak to what we're doing, but she's made every effort.
49:44 So last year we came to council in September and we requested to unbundle the health plan if you recall and we moved away from Sigma. We shopped the
49:53 TPA and we moved to United. We separated the pharmacy benefit manager and we also
50:00 um separated the stop-loss. So alto together we um estimate an approximate $499,000
50:08 of savings with these changes. And for this plan year we were able to lower employee premiums by
50:17 1% and city premiums by 5%. So great, we were able to lower cost from that change and we're continuing to
50:25 look at ways to lower costs because that was the one thing that you know as I was going through it last year
50:32 with Scott, it was like this is we narrowed it down. We're like of all the choices that all can be made like this is the thing that is growing so fast.
50:43 What I don't want to do is not have healthcare. I don't want to pay because we're still paying what those of us who
50:51 don't have health insurance would say is a great amount of money. And so to pay that much money and not be able to get care, that's not good. That, you know,
51:00 that's not a good outcome either. It's not just about saving money. They need to be getting the care.
51:04 I was just about to ask, so Naen, with the change, how has the response been?
51:09 Do the employees like the change that you have implemented with the healthcare? There's been a little bit of noise as with many things. We were Sigma
51:17 since 2010. So it was a significant change moving away from Sigma. Um so there you know
51:25 I think overall the the change has gone well. The implementation's gone well. Um we have had employees come to us with
51:32 concerns that we've handled individually on a case- by case basis.
51:36 Okay. But I did want to point out one thing is when we look at the cost of the plan over the last five years, the
51:43 average increase has been 4%. Which is much better than the national trend which is around 10%. So our plan is
51:52 being managed well and plan is doing well.
51:56 Um yes. So this is a hold on to your chair's kind of statement that I'm going to make is um I don't have insurance.
52:03 I've not had insurance most of my adult life and I pay call it cash, you know, credit card, check, whatever. Um, the
52:11 biggest fear that I have for myself and my family is an obvious an emergency situation that that there's no doubt about that. But on the dayto-day, the
52:20 cost of insurance compared to me being able to choose my doctor, go where I want to go, get whatever service I want, go to whatever specialist I want, it's
52:28 not even comparable. I mean there's there's literally no comparison to what I pay on a year to what I would have
52:36 paid for insurance. So my approach has always been well I'm self-insuring but you know just putting that money away and that takes extraordinary
52:43 responsibility but what would be helpful is if there was some sort of catastrophic plan that I could pay into.
52:50 So I'm coming at this as someone who doesn't have insurance but who feels very strongly that she has extraordinary
52:56 health care. I can see any doctor I want whenever I want and I don't have those restrictions of well I'm not in this
53:04 plan or I'm not in that plan or that doctor is not in my network. I can shop it around. I can do alternative medicine
53:10 versus modern medicine. And to me that's akin to what I would like for all
53:17 residents, all Americans but you know especially in our community to be able to choose their care what they need for
53:25 them. Um, and I'm not suggesting that we go to a cash basis, but I am saying there are completely as I spoke to the
53:33 CEO of Advent Health and she's like, "So, you want to turn medical, you know, care on its head?" And I said, "Well, yeah, I do. I think it's a broken
53:40 system." So, yeah, I do. And I think that Clermont is big enough, strong enough, uh, healthy enough to be able to
53:47 set a really interesting example. And so, yes, I would love to have council support to to direct staff to look for
53:55 innovation, innovative solutions in health care so that our our employees have better care. My daughter's in the
54:02 Clermont system. She had a torn rotator cuff and she couldn't get the care that I was able to pay for for her. It wasn't
54:10 in the it wasn't in the the the plan because it was not your typical typical treatment and it was not even experimental, but it wasn't in the plan.
54:20 And so I paid for it through my company, you know, cash system and she got it and it worked and it was great. So I would
54:29 love for our employees to be empowered to be able to make their own choices for their care. Um, and for what we pay, I
54:36 think they should be able to. And it's not a knock on you. You're in the system that you're in. But I think that with Advent and Orlando Health right here
54:44 that there's a lot of things that could be done. And if we can direct staff to be innovative this year with technology, one, if we don't have to add a lot of
54:52 new employees, that helps keep that cost down because we're not adding those employees with the healthare, right? Um, and then two, if we can approach the
55:00 health care, like I said, I think it could be something that once that plan is in place for 400 employees, right, it creates an opportunity for small
55:08 businesses like like mine, you know, we we could tap into it and that would encourage small businesses to want to be in Clermont because if you're in
55:17 Clermont and you have access to this plan, it might mean the difference in you setting up shop in Lake County versus setting up shop in Clermont
55:25 because you now have access to this new plan and that goes back to who am I trying to serve?
55:30 You know, families, kids with broken bones and, you know, small businesses. How do we feel about that?
55:38 Do we like that direction?
55:41 I think we you need to investigate it and show them, you know, in other words, it's an like an alternate plan that's not the normal
55:48 plan. It's not like United Healthcare, right? So you have, you know, it's it's like I mean, you probably heard about like the the Trump RX plan. That's like
55:57 a like BBM type of thing where they have a thousand drug formulary. Everyone is $5 a month. But if you fall out of that,
56:05 then then what do you do, right?
56:07 You know, and that that's the problem that that you know, I think we're going off on a real Yeah.
56:12 far tangent right now, but I agree with you. I think there's something to investigate. And I think that for me, moving into the the next
56:21 budget, to bring it back to to next year's budget, if if nationally it's a
56:28 10% on average and we're still in that 4% range, uh I'm I'm okay with that given that
56:35 that's a incredible uh feather in the cap that we can say based even off of
56:42 working in the existing system. And then if we create that priority for the city manager to say, okay, as a as a as the
56:51 leader of the city, for our city employees and for our city, what other alternative option might be available for a system that could be
57:00 created, that could work for these things that would be innovative and might turn some things uh on the head,
57:08 but not diminish, rather improve service. So, I'm hearing that we're open to
57:15 creative solutions as we're growing that would serve the citizens even if they're not in the the ordinary way we always do things.
57:27 Yes. Yes. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay.
57:34 Great. Cool. Thank you. Thanks for the update.
57:37 I want to let you know I really appreciate N's diligence on this.
57:41 We're looking at things right now that we've not mentioned also. Okay.
57:45 So, we'll keep going. And I want to add the employees of the city we're great with their openness to make a change. Okay.
57:54 Because they recognize we're trying to have a balanced more balanced budget.
57:58 So, I appreciated all the employees and their will willingness to make a change this past year.
58:04 I just don't want it to be lost that when I say these things, I'm also looking for a better care.
58:09 Yeah. It's not just I don't hear you say get rid of it. Okay.
58:12 I don't hear that. I hear you say what options are out there. Yeah. Exactly.
58:17 All right. So, what do you want to approach next?
58:20 I can we go to Can we just talk a little bit about walkability and and cart p cart golf cart paths multimodal? Um, I
58:28 think where that may come into a philosophical conversation or direction for next year's budget is that if the
58:37 consensus of the council is we want sidewalks for folks to be able to walk
58:44 when they want to choose to walk and not have dead as many dead ends. Um, we want
58:50 streets that we build new or repair to provide lanes for multimodal.
58:59 Yes, maybe that's the priority that we put forward to public works and to um to the
59:06 city manager that we would like to see whatever projects are coming forward to include those things.
59:13 I love that idea. um and andor create a longer term plan kind of like a capital
59:20 plan that would expand or include those things moving forward yearly. Uh I I
59:27 certainly would be um in favor of of moving in that direction with a philosophy with walkability sidewalks
59:35 specifically and paths multimotal paths on on our roadways. I think related to that is the issue of shade and also sure. Yeah.
59:45 And also where are they going? Like where are people going?
59:48 I was just about to say that because this is it's hot now. It's hot. We're a very spread out city.
59:54 So I I I believe this is 100% part of the comprehensive plan and identifying where would the where would we where
1:00:02 would people be going if all roads lead to Rome? Okay. Um what might be there along the way and and how might that
1:00:09 work? So I that's probably for the comprehensive planning team is my guess.
1:00:17 Yeah, probably.
1:00:19 So does anybody have a problem with creating multimodal?
1:00:22 Well, you already by the way I mean you already have sidewalks mentioned eight times in your comp plan and it says multimodal a bunch of times as well.
1:00:31 It's a part of your comp plan. It's covered.
1:00:33 So the issue is how are you doing it in your with your budget? I was going to say so I think I think I think what we're saying then is we need to say as a
1:00:40 priority okay city manager um we we want to see this as a priority with these these budget lines that are associated
1:00:48 with walkability and multimmodal opportunities for this year and in future years creating a plan to move forward with that.
1:00:57 Right. What the is, you know, we we came up with a golf cart ordinance and everything, but we never came up with a plan. Well, where are they going to ride their golf carts, right?
1:01:05 So, like you said, I mean, maybe we should make it a priority for all new road investments that that there's a golf cart laying on that, you know, so
1:01:14 this way they could utilize the golf cart because remember, I think the last discussion there was only like 10 people because there's no place to take them.
1:01:21 There's no golf cart parking, you know, it has to be like planned ahead.
1:01:24 Yeah. And the other thing is they only can uh drive them on certain roads because they don't.
1:01:30 Right. Right. But in town I would you know you know as you know as a lumberard project gets completed more. It's going to be more people going into these and
1:01:37 you know you don't have to have all that traffic if people have golf carts you know but they have to have a place to drive them a place to park them. Yep.
1:01:45 And you know they right same thing you know they have you know if we have parking spots maybe they have to do a thing where they take a single parking
1:01:53 spot and make that into three golf cart spots. It's true. In the villages, they have a parking ratio with the regulations, right? You know, so you could use, you
1:02:00 know, but we have to become, you know, it's nice to pass an ordinance, but it's like, okay, you can have, you can have a plane, but there's there is no runway.
1:02:10 Exactly. So, you can have it, you know, have a good time with it, but we're not going to ever build a runway. So, we have to do that again.
1:02:17 And I think Winter Park maybe has a map on their city website that like has all the streets that you can drive on a
1:02:26 winter. We could show the days that are available and have little like, you know, in a little map, you know, have the map.
1:02:33 You go to Cheers, you get the map there of all the golf cart. Yeah.
1:02:36 I think what I'm hearing is we're without question on board with the concept. What we don't know is how to execute it.
1:02:44 And so I would like to see more of that come to us in maybe the public works presentation at the budget is how do we make this a reality?
1:02:54 Yeah. And I don't know that necessarily it's up to us specifically to execute it. It's up to us to approve it and then
1:03:01 let them let them go forth. Yes.
1:03:05 So what do we need? And and if Stony wants to jump in, my understanding is until last year, we had really we as a
1:03:13 council taking credit for things I didn't do.
1:03:16 Just put that out there. we had been kind of taking from public works for different department projects and now we're not doing that anymore.
1:03:24 Good afternoon. Good afternoon. So, we're we're we've got a wild hair.
1:03:28 How do you what are you hearing and how does it feel?
1:03:31 I think it's a great idea. The implementation is going to be tough though. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
1:03:35 And that's where staff will need direction myself is how would you like to implement it? Looking at the map up here, we're talking about the west side of town.
1:03:43 Yeah.
1:03:44 So, you got 60 foot rideways. So that only leaves you 16 to 18 foot behind curb after asphalt with 12 or 10 foot drive lanes.
1:03:54 So to get that we're going to go to one lane oneway traffic. Oh no. Okay.
1:04:00 To get all that in that rideway is a challenge.
1:04:04 So, what I my knee-jerk reaction to the question, which probably isn't the right one, is we in the comprehensive plan,
1:04:12 DPZ had been looking at different areas where there would be potentially town centers or neighborhood centers.
1:04:18 Um, and it's kind of like the public transportation conversation. Doesn't do you any good to have a bus if you don't have a way to walk when you get off the bus, right? So if we look at where these
1:04:26 town centers might be, I would suggest perhaps that the roads that lead to Rome kind of each one of those be the Rome and we're stemming out.
1:04:36 And I I I think in a perfect world ultimately connecting them all so that you can get around the whole city. I mean there are people in this city who ride bikes for 100 miles at a time.
1:04:46 I am not one of them, but I know they exist. And so there are people who are going to go it's no big deal. I can drive down to all this way, you know,
1:04:53 and I'm going, okay, have fun. I'm not that person, but I'll just stay close to my home. But but I think it's a neat thing, right, that we have.
1:05:01 I think that was innovative when you said, you know, one way. I mean, you know, being from New York, you know, and you go, it's all one way is a normal
1:05:09 thing that you would know that, you know, 6th Avenue goes goes north south, you know, so you would know and maybe that's a way that we could become
1:05:17 innovative then to produce the product that we that we want to get with multimodal, right?
1:05:23 I think through through sorry I mean people would be reactive in the beginning, you know. Oh, you mean there's only Well, yeah, you got to go down.
1:05:31 Well, but I think to to you know, I don't know. That was a great thing. I Yeah. To that point, I mean, if public works, the expert, right, right, is
1:05:39 saying to us, we can we can implement a plan in this quadrant that does this, but this is what we're working with. So, this is what that plan would look like.
1:05:47 And I think then present that to us. We have to hash it out, kind of talk about whether we like it, don't like it, get citizen and resident feedback, business
1:05:55 feedback, and then ultimately we say go forth or don't go forth. Uh but I and and it may not look the same throughout
1:06:04 the entire city because our city, you know, depending upon which quadrant you go to, the age of that quadrant really is very different in terms of when it
1:06:12 developed. And so we might have more flexibilities in some areas that we don't in others that if we start with one area and that's our plan and we
1:06:21 really say we're going to be a robust implementation of this and and be a part of it, present to us what that would take,
1:06:28 right? and let's see where that sits with folks and if it doesn't resonate then we know
1:06:36 or if it's just the like you were saying uh council member Peterson about the initial kind of but then it's like okay wait a second let me think about this I
1:06:43 do want to ride my bike so maybe that's not so bad and then they kind of you know they adapt with it that way I'll give you for instance what we've
1:06:51 done is for sidewalks is we took and looked at we go through the school board school board has where kids live where they walk where they don't walk. We took
1:06:59 their we took their information and we implemented getting the sidewalks to get the kids to school within that radius so
1:07:07 they have that safe travel. The next thing we did is how do we get people in the downtown so we have that one area you know I'll just use east and oyola.
1:07:16 All right there was not connectivity was not there.
1:07:19 So we said we've got to get people from here to here. So, what would be nice is when they do the comp plan is I know
1:07:27 which areas have the big rideways that you can use. Where do where do you want people to go to? Where are you trying to get them to? Yeah. Yeah.
1:07:34 So, that way we have the direction. We know what to look at when we're presenting to y'all. Is this is this is what we're looking at and where we want
1:07:42 people to go. Is it from downtown to the waterfront? Are we sending them all the way to the east side of town past 27?
1:07:49 So, we can look at all that when we go through the exercise, but I'm sure that when DPZ does this, they'll know those
1:07:56 areas for that walkability, the rideway widths, so they know how people can get point A to point B.
1:08:04 But let's make sure we're not assuming they know. If they ask, I can tell. Agreed.
1:08:12 Yeah. So, all right. I think this is great. That was a great point, Bryan.
1:08:15 Thank you for bringing it up. Anything else on transportation that we feel street lights in all sectors? I think
1:08:24 that's probably part of just the traffic flow.
1:08:27 Just bring that up. This is this what you see is our street light map. This is what we've created. This is not from Duke. It's not from SECO.
1:08:35 Okay.
1:08:37 You can see all the little green spots right there. Our light inventory is very good. Do we have some deficiencies in a
1:08:44 small places? Yes. But most of the deficiencies you're going to see are on state road, county roads, mainly private
1:08:52 subdivisions that have nothing to do with the city in particular.
1:09:00 They're right. They're all over here. I'll see black.
1:09:10 Unless they changed the map on me.
1:09:12 Oh, I see it now that you said that. Oh, I didn't even say hello. Oh, now you can see better over there. Thank you.
1:09:25 Yeah. So, transportation. Thank you. You're welcome.
1:09:28 Yeah. I I loved when you brought up the the complete street. You like we did this seven years ago. Do you want to see it? Like, yes. Let's see more of that.
1:09:37 We've got East Avenue is going to get mil and overlaid. It's coming up in June after school's out. So, what we've asked
1:09:45 our consultant to do is look at how we can restripe it.
1:09:50 So, we can add those Oh, yeah.
1:09:52 features what you're talking about right now if we're doing on street parking, but how do we get a bike lane in there?
1:09:58 Now, if I'm hearing we want to get a golf cart lane in there, we'll take a look at that, too, because we have a lot of asphalt there. We have the room and the rideway to do things there.
1:10:06 Legal question incoming. Can a golf cart drive on the road so long as the speed limit is within golf cart capabilities?
1:10:15 I mean, it's it I think yes. I mean, I'm not exactly sure what your question is.
1:10:22 You're saying, can a golf cart drive on a road as long as it's within the golf cart? I mean, there's different type of golf cart, right? Carts.
1:10:29 That's a go.
1:10:35 But I'm not going 35 with my kids in the golf cart. I mean that's just the golf cart goes 20 probably 25.
1:10:41 But I mean like on the road like posted road at 35 miles an hour in the So you couldn't have a golf cart on 27. Oh sure.
1:10:49 Right.
1:10:49 Well I had a mom you would do that but you never know.
1:10:52 I was talking to a mom who lives on the east side of the historic district of downtown. So she's I think she's technically outside of the CRA but she's before 27.
1:11:01 Okay. and she was saying she would love a golf cart, but she feels like the cars driving on the road are going too fast
1:11:09 and she wouldn't feel safe in a golf cart. So, she's like, "I'm looking forward to doing it. I just haven't and this is my fear." Yeah.
1:11:16 And so I think that when we're doing this, um, it's helpful to look maybe engage as many pregnant moms as you can
1:11:25 in the conversation because they're actually the ones in our society that are going to be the most fearful of safety and and give you the
1:11:34 honest feedback because even though we can say 35, maybe one of the things we should be considering is a lower speed limit where we're encouraging the golf carts.
1:11:42 Yeah. You know, so it's like on on Lakeshore. I remember years ago suddenly they put in, you'll remember this, sorry I'm throwing you the bus.
1:11:49 They'll put in they put in stop sign and took the speed I think from 15 to 25. And
1:11:57 I can't not believe the intention was to discourage bicyclists because it used to be that there were cyclists all over that road because the
1:12:05 speed limit was low and there were no stop signs. So you would just get on your bike and ride. And I think it's a wonderful thing. And and so if we have
1:12:14 designated areas for this is a safe bike lane, this is a safe golf cart lane. And and maybe that's published on a map
1:12:21 somewhere, you know, that we know. I I would love to see that kind of innovation come out of the comp plan. I I don't want to go through this whole
1:12:29 process of the comp plan and then not execute it. I think that that would be the worst thing for us to do. So looking at ways to actually implement it, to
1:12:38 your point, funding it And maybe that means we need a certain amount of money every year for the next five or ten years, but it can be part of our five to
1:12:46 10 year plan and this is what it looks like. And then future council members know we don't have to reinvent this wheel. It's already been decided
1:12:53 and and it and it's done like it.
1:13:00 Yeah. What Yeah. Because what I like about a plan that has numbers and ideas the verbal helps is uh sounds great. If something can be
1:13:07 expedited, you have, you know, a year where there's funds to be able to expedite it, you could, you know, roll two years into one. You have a year
1:13:14 where a pandemic hits and and things, you know, come to a screeching halt. You know, what that means for the overall,
1:13:22 but I think instructing staff or directing staff uh the city manager to work with staff to uh come up with a plan that emphasizes walkability and
1:13:31 multimodal is the right approach. I have residents asking me, so I'm going to interject real quick. Is Lakeshore going to be done when East is done over summer?
1:13:40 Yes.
1:13:40 Okay. And the reason why we haven't done it yet is because we're waiting for school to get out. Yes. Got it. Thank you.
1:13:47 Welcome.
1:13:49 Anything else for Stonyie? Oh, what do we need to know on water sewer? What would you like to know?
1:13:54 What are big projects that we should be thinking about in the next five to 10?
1:13:57 We just closed on the property on the north side of town yesterday, which was great. the the one by the old highway 50 by Verde Ridge.
1:14:06 Y we did.
1:14:08 So that was uh we got a million dollar through legislative priority to pay for that which was great. That'll give us additional storage for reuse reclaimed.
1:14:18 Uh we're looking actually I reached out to city of Orlando.
1:14:24 So then we sent them a map of some land areas we're looking into on the south quarter during the wellness way. They're
1:14:31 going to take it to their next meeting and let us know what why is the city of Orlando involved. Are you Yes, they have majority of the property.
1:14:41 Mr. FromI just gave me some other ideas down there with some other land we'll look into also if that doesn't pan out.
1:14:49 See how that works. Uh the plan expansion is done and complete. We're modifying our consumptive use permit right now, so
1:14:59 we'll be in good shape with that. We've got our rate study going on for all of our different utilities currently. We have the master plan we're expecting to
1:15:07 be back in around November. So, water sewer is in great shape.
1:15:12 Are we thinking there's a possibility that utility rates, the rate of service, not the investment piece of it, could go down?
1:15:21 We don't know. We'll know. We'll know something next month on how it looks.
1:15:25 We're gonna we've got a meeting set up with them and then we're going to sit down with the city manager and the deputy city manager and go through it so we can see what it looks like.
1:15:36 You're welcome.
1:15:38 Anything else for Thank you. You're welcome.
1:15:47 All right.
1:15:49 So, we went over some finance, transportation, safety, and health. Do we want to do that one now? EMS six minute response.
1:16:01 Yes.
1:16:02 Okay, that was emphatic. You want to take the lead?
1:16:07 Yes. I was supposed to say bring them up. Yeah. For EMS. Yeah. So, where are we at on that?
1:16:12 Do we want police and fire here or just You want to start with fire?
1:16:16 Like, are we approaching safety all together? Come on.
1:16:25 Oh, you brought more paperwork than I was expecting. We can go a way higher level than that. You guys asked for data.
1:16:32 She's like, I'm prepared.
1:16:37 So, I'm glad that you want to talk about this. I'm going to put, you know, I'm going to put it out there that I think we need to really have a conversation
1:16:44 about our commitment to EMS. Uh, I don't like the longevity of this conversation.
1:16:51 I do think we need to be diligent, but there's conflict with the county and I want to get to a place where we can
1:17:00 really be clear with staff. I'm not asked to make decisions today, but I am glad that we're talking about this.
1:17:06 Right. I was at a leadership conference and I met with the uh council member over in in Venice. Okay.
1:17:13 And he a similar situation there. He was telling me I don't know. Have you spoken to the fire chief there in Venice?
1:17:22 I have them all. Okay. At any rate, I I have his number.
1:17:25 I I'll push similar situation. The county did not want to let it go. So, they had to then they hired a consultant
1:17:32 and they they pushed the issue. In the beginning, it cost them some money like one maybe 1.5 1.6. Five years later, they're breaking even.
1:17:40 Oh, wow.
1:17:41 With all the cost of personnel, the additional personnel, battalion chiefs, etc., etc. They have six ambulances there now that are that are doing fine.
1:17:50 So, you know, I mean, to me that's like, you know, there's a visual about somebody that, you know, it's not like we're all by ourselves here and how are
1:17:57 we going to do that and, you know, but we have somebody that we can go to that h actually had it done and showing the positive at the end. You know, if it
1:18:05 was, oh yeah, it cost us $10 million after five years. Yeah, that would be a problem. But if you're breaking even because even when they present it to us
1:18:14 20% comes from MTSU the other 80 is billing and you know it's I'm familiar with it because I volunteered in there
1:18:21 in New York. So I mean it's it's billing on every aspect. You know you got on an ambulance you know they put oxygen on you $500. you know, they give you an
1:18:29 aspirin, they start a line on you, everything get but I mean it's not that they're cheating you but it's you know it's part of the building practice and
1:18:36 the the person the patient doesn't see any of this so it's invisible it's not like oh sorry you're going to have to have you'll wait here we're not going to take care we have to take care of
1:18:45 everybody right but I mean I think it's it's something that maybe we should look into you know contact them and you know somebody
1:18:52 already invented the uh the wheel so we don't have to reinvent this wheel if somebody already did it and they had a five year plan showing breaking even.
1:19:00 Well, breaking even is a good thing to do. Not making a profit, but you know, he's paying all your things off.
1:19:06 We decided last year to hold off on well to maintain our general reserve
1:19:12 overage because of this conversation and the potential that it could cost. And so I don't really want to do that again this year. I want to be able in the
1:19:21 budget process to address our general fund reserve overage, whatever that means, but not just keep holding it. I
1:19:30 don't believe in taxing people and not having a plan. So, I would like to see before we come to the final vote on this
1:19:36 year's budget to have the EMS plan in place, including if there's if we decide to move forward with it that we're
1:19:44 maintaining in reserves, what we think we need to get through five years, whatever it might be, but then we know what else we have to work with on other
1:19:53 projects because I do think that this is a very important project. I mean, it's about saving lives. Yes.
1:19:59 And I don't think it gets much other than water and sewer. I don't think it gets much more important. Okay.
1:20:04 I think if I remember correctly at our was it our last workshop we had the chief here I believe that was was that March or was that April?
1:20:15 I think it was April. We'll say April. Was it April?
1:20:18 And because I think we were originally going to have on the on that upcoming agenda authorization
1:20:25 to send the letter out. So when but through that conversation we had a pretty lengthy I think list and compiled
1:20:33 uh all kinds of data that we would like before we even get to that point exactly
1:20:39 do we know a when we're getting that
1:20:44 and b will we be will we be voting on authorization
1:20:53 to move forward prior to the budget process starting. Okay. You want to answer his question?
1:21:02 Uh so as far as the questions and some of the feedback and and the information you guys requested from us in April, uh
1:21:08 I spent about I don't know 60 hours over the past two and a half weeks but together not only a powerpoint to allow
1:21:16 you to understand why we're doing this and and I just want to address you all.
1:21:20 I have done this before. I come from South Florida. I came from a department that was taken over by the county and fought them tooth and nail and ended up
1:21:27 taking uh transport back. It is very possible. I do not agree unfortunately with what you're saying where it's going
1:21:34 to be a complete wash. I've never seen that in all my time. I've been around the service for 25 years. I would consider myself a submatic matter
1:21:42 expert. That being said, that doesn't mean that we will be uh self-sufficient in terms of our monies in house. What I
1:21:50 I know Mayor Murry made a comment the last meeting we were in here about people getting double charged.
1:21:55 Unfortunately, we're being double charged already as a community. Um we we pay for overage of 40% of the county's
1:22:04 total income that they take in between MSDU monies and our repayment. We're the number one repayment in Lake County. We
1:22:11 officially prop up the rest of the service. We are the economic engine that moves this boat. We only use less than
1:22:19 14% of the services, including the vast array of the county's resources that Chief Gilbury likes to tell us about. We don't use them as much as they use us.
1:22:29 Um, that being said, there are many different variables and we've come up with three or four in the past uh two
1:22:38 weeks to show you different variables on that. As far as you go, if you want, I can start answering the questions you guys had immediately. We can go through
1:22:46 that. I don't want to put you on the spot to do that today. I wasn't expecting you to be prepared to do that.
1:22:53 He's got So I can I go back to my I'm sorry. Can I go back to my question because I I thought we were getting a report.
1:23:02 I have a report.
1:23:03 Okay. So I would like my preference would be to have that report before we ever start talking about that report because I'd like to I I can't talk about
1:23:11 a report and read it and listen at the same time. I just think that you'll have questions on things that I'll be giving you that you understand off. Absolutely. And I would hope that
1:23:19 we would have a presentation on that to the council um for that.
1:23:24 But so it sounds like is that the packet of information we've requested? So they're they have the information. I would like to hear it.
1:23:32 I didn't schedule this discussion until June. Okay. Oh, okay.
1:23:36 So, and that's just a discussion to decide if you want to go and ask the county, right, if you want to do that or not. But they
1:23:44 they have gathered this data already for us.
1:23:46 When which meeting in June are you expecting the June first or second? June 9th. The first meeting in June.
1:23:54 I'm with Council Member Bain. I look forward to asking all the questions and seeing the whole presentation. And kudos to you for being ready today. That's
1:24:02 fantastic. Have you seen the presentation?
1:24:06 I would like I was going to say that would be my suggestion is that if if council is okay give us direction so we can get with uh
1:24:14 the city manager, deputy city manager, city attorney present this um and and have that discussion.
1:24:20 It's all in house. We haven't done anything yet. We're looking for some direction.
1:24:25 Right. I think that's what we kind of said. We give us these data points, information, etc. Um and then um is there something specific you're
1:24:33 looking for? at the times itself or are you looking for financials? Are you looking for everything?
1:24:38 Well, I I would just go back to what was said at the I guess at the workshop and I'm pretty sure uh there was an extensive bullet point list
1:24:47 that was prepared for that and I'm my understanding is it's completed that okay that all that data that he asked. So,
1:24:55 where I'm looking at this is there all signs point to this is a conflict
1:25:04 with the county. That that's that's as I understand it. My duties to the citizens of Clermont. And so that's but I want
1:25:13 to make sure that if this is a conflict with the county, we have dotted all our eyes, crossed all our tees, and then from the financial perspective, I'm
1:25:22 concerned with you said we never break even. Does that So the county collects an MSTU. Presumably that MSTU is the
1:25:32 subsidy for not breaking even.
1:25:36 When you say we won't break even, are you including the MSTU and the collections and then you still believe there would be overage?
1:25:43 No, the MSTU is not included in that. So like in a couple of the transport options where like today if you wanted to stay high level kind of got like an
1:25:50 option one where we're completely self-sufficient. We take over everything. We have our certificate of we're paying we're contracting for dispatch medical control. Everything
1:25:58 it's all us and everything that we have in the current partnership we have with the county goes away. We're looking at a gross program cost of about two $5.3
1:26:07 million. And that's across not just transport, but there's also some costs into that with our existing fire apparatus that that's going to need. And
1:26:16 with two units, starting with the two units, everything that we're proposing, the presented budget that you'll see this year, um we're looking at bringing
1:26:24 in about 1.6 in revenue just off of what we would get on the transport election.
1:26:31 No MSTU. And that's no MSTU. Um, with the MSTU, so typically right now, the county is collecting about 2.9 million
1:26:40 from the city residents. It's a half mill. Um, we estimate we'll probably end up being able to keep around 2.2 of
1:26:48 that. Um, being that the remainder of that's going to go to the county to cover dispatch, medical control, medical supplies, and some of those other ones.
1:26:56 So, if you combine that right now, the net program cost for a year one because there's capital other expenditures all
1:27:03 in is 3.6. So 3.6 minus the 2.2. You know there there's some there's some sunk cost there. But the recurring
1:27:10 annual cost and this is where the MSTU plus collections and building where it might break even. A recurring annual
1:27:17 cost all in is 2.1 per year. So if you have 2.1 plus 2.2 you can see where it's pretty close and that's only with two
1:27:25 units. Now, it's going to scale as this is also estimating that our units are only running four calls per day. So,
1:27:33 with four transports per day, that's that's a that's a very slow unit. These units are going to more than likely run six to 10 calls a day.
1:27:41 10.
1:27:42 And then, you know, if we have instead of two, we end up with six or seven and those are all running,
1:27:50 four to six calls becomes the break even point for an ambulance. when we collect and we factor in the MST, it's going to take time. There will be upfront costs
1:27:58 and it's, you know, like council member said, it's going to be five to six years before we realize and see that break even point initially right off the rip.
1:28:07 What to think about is we're going to put this new service in place. We're going to get it at a discount of, you know, so we're going to put firefighters
1:28:14 on on an ambulance, put it in a service gap for 50 to 75% discount because we don't have to put
1:28:22 firefighters in that space and all that money is the ROI stays in house as opposed to us essentially paying for other people.
1:28:32 Yeah. Secondly, you're not going to have to send a truck out to the call too, right? That saves a lot of money. Um we it's going to depend on the nature of
1:28:39 the call depending you know for non-emergency calls stuff to fix facilities um we would look at that but if it's a true emergency like a chest pain or heart attack we look at our
1:28:47 effective response force and the number of staff we need to meet with NFPA and just national standards we we're going
1:28:54 to send an engine and a rescue there now the rescue may get theres quicker it's a more agile um you know piece of
1:29:01 equipment and they can cancel the engine you know or once everything's done they'll cancel the engine the engine goes back in service. Um, it's able to provide coverage. But something to think
1:29:09 about as we go into the budget process is that we're proposing two units. Those two units require 15 staff. If we were
1:29:17 to staff station six with a fire truck right away, when we look at the full-time equivalents of what we're going to staff, we're going to be requesting 18 personnel for that.
1:29:25 Right?
1:29:26 So that's one truck, 18 personnel, firefighters, officers, engineers, all the equipment. We can put two ambulances
1:29:34 in service for less than the cost of one fire truck and we can provide coverage to the fire station 6 area. And then once the station two renovations are
1:29:42 done, that's where that other ambulance can locate. And as time progresses and as the budget process progresses and as our training requirements and all the
1:29:50 things that are required to get this new program up and operating, everything will fall in line.
1:29:56 And I know one of your questions was where are we going to put these ambulances? Because that seems to be of going uh kuruffles with the county is we
1:30:05 don't have the space right now. I what we built out is a timeline that shows you exactly where we are today with each station each each housing company uh
1:30:14 total number of firefighters in each and then as it's moving uh due to construction station two being closed moving over to temporary station two
1:30:22 then thus reopening station five station six um moving those units back out of station one we had to reassign due to
1:30:29 construction. It has all this So, it's very easy to see that we will have the space for them within possibly 60 days.
1:30:38 And does it include McKinnon Groves and McKini uh Lincoln Park?
1:30:43 Does this plan anticipate McKinnon Groves?
1:30:46 Not at not at this time. This is just for this this next fiscal year. We can go and I can we can run models and provide those addition those additional
1:30:53 two spots. That would probably be the second year of that program of like rescue three and rescue four. I I'm very interested in the five-year period. So,
1:31:03 seems like that's a relevant period from what Mr. Peterson heard, but also leaving the next council with clear
1:31:10 direction on so they don't necessarily feel like they have to make all these decisions and do all this work like it's it's already been decided. So, we know
1:31:19 McKinnon is coming online. We know Minnola is moving out of Lincoln Park.
1:31:24 What will that do? You know, how do we want to handle that? I'd like to see that those are addressed as well. And and like I said, when you feel like you
1:31:31 have it complete, I really would like Christian to get eyes on it to make sure that because we're anticipating an argument over this, I just want to make
1:31:39 sure legally we're looking at making sure we've checked all the boxes.
1:31:42 Yes, ma'am. So I I'm going to suggest after Christian look at look looks at it giving you all the data and then we'll let them do a presentation the first
1:31:51 time in June and maybe the next meeting if we want to move forward we'll put in there to vote on it to vote on it but that way I think it's
1:31:59 too much probably to digest in one setting.
1:32:02 Can I suggest that if we're going to do it at a council meeting it be at the end of the council meetings so that we're not holding up the other council
1:32:10 activities the presentation?
1:32:12 Yes. Yeah, I'm okay. I I'd be fine with the presentation at the end of the meeting. Is that how you guys want me to do it?
1:32:17 Schedule a I would two different meetings like that.
1:32:20 Yeah. Well, especially we put it at the end or a workshop. Yeah. I mean, I think it I think discussion.
1:32:25 Yeah. Actually, to your point, maybe ask the city attorney, could we not have the regular council meeting, adjourn, and
1:32:34 then go into a workshop just for um just for the presentation that evening?
1:32:41 You could either way. I guess it's flexibility.
1:32:45 It's a horse a piece. It really doesn't matter if we do it at the end of the council meeting versus a piece. Yeah. Horse a piece. I've never heard that. Really? Yeah.
1:32:53 Maybe it's an upper Midwest thing.
1:32:54 I've never heard it either, but I'm intrigued.
1:32:58 Really? No one else has ever a horse a piece? Is that the same? What is it? What is it?
1:33:05 Oh man, my family's going to give me so much grief over the same either way.
1:33:10 Yeah, is it related to actual horses or I don't know where the origin is.
1:33:18 That's just an expression. I have always my family's always Yeah, I to me it is. I mean, I think the only thing about if you choose to like
1:33:25 notice it as a workshop, of course, is you're purposefully restraining yourselves on what you can do, right? You can't vote on it.
1:33:31 Correct. Well, I I don't think Yeah, I I wouldn't want to vote on it, I guess, based off what the city manager is kind
1:33:39 of proposing as a plan. I I like the idea of having it at the 9th for the presentation, whether it's at the end of the regular meeting or we adjourn and
1:33:47 actually hold a workshop and then we at the second meeting in June have the actual item on the agenda. Is there any scenario
1:33:55 I think it's a horse a piece. Um is there but in case it's not. Is there any scenario where we might want to give
1:34:03 direction that requires formal because I'm with you. I would not just so you all know when we do this presentation I am going to want to let this simmer. Let the public see it. Yeah.
1:34:13 I'm going to want to ask questions. I'm going to want to let it digest. I'm probably going to follow up and ask more questions. So shocker to everybody. Um,
1:34:21 so I don't see us I don't see me wanting to take a vote, but is there any action that we might want to take that would require us to be in a meeting?
1:34:30 I think what we have to do is they have to present the letter to the Lake County and that's what we have to we have to vote on that. They can send the letter out. Sending a letter out
1:34:38 isn't isn't really it's that's like step number one.
1:34:42 Then if they reject it then then we'd have to litigate it. Correct.
1:34:47 Oh no. I mean it it's a decision. It's a policy decision that you can make. You don't have to litigate anything.
1:34:53 No one's forcing us into a nuclear war, you know, but it's an option. I mean, it's something that the reason why the hearing is held is,
1:35:01 you know, a city that's applying for the certificate presents the evidence, right?
1:35:05 Says this is why I need this. And it is conceivable that everything on the record shows there's a need. There's
1:35:14 nothing on the other side. So then you might have to take action. I mean it's a it's a it's an option right okay this is where I think maybe my
1:35:22 preference of having the actual workshop because we give consensus at workshop uh having it done in a workshop format
1:35:31 presentation by CFD all the data what you've going over what you've given us answering questions providing additional
1:35:39 data and details and then also even having the city attorney talk about okay on the next agenda there's going to be this resolution this is what this resolution is going to ask you to do.
1:35:49 This is the steps that if you approve it, this is what it means. If you vote it down, this is what it means. If it gets approved and it goes to the county
1:35:57 and gets voted down, this is what it mean. Like, walk us through all those things so that we have a clear picture going into then that next meeting of this is what we're actually voting on.
1:36:08 This is the information that we have.
1:36:09 We've digested it now for another two weeks, right? What are additional follow-up questions or information we might have for staff? And then we actually take whatever action we take.
1:36:19 Is there any workshop prior to the June meeting?
1:36:26 One thing we got I mean how many uh calls do we get let's say per month 4,000 or something like that?
1:36:33 Uh no uh per month EMS or fire or both? Well, we're we're at 9100. Huge percentage is EMS.
1:36:41 We're 9200 for the year. last year 92 and it fluctuates 9200 how much was EMS uh it's it's about 80 82% EMS
1:36:51 okay so 82% so it's a lot of EMS we're already taking EMS and what percentage of those required
1:36:58 last last year was about 565% of national average do we not know what the average I could find out in 10 seconds if I had
1:37:07 access to my my files just I don't have them I like the idea of the workshop and I don't know if we need to you know,
1:37:15 in the meeting. I I don't matters, but um I like the idea of you having your laptop.
1:37:22 So So the the transport, so uh we had about 5,600 transports um last year out of all of those calls.
1:37:31 So the the numbers are there, you know, and then again, you divide that by um six ambulances, you're running into that
1:37:40 three to four transport a little bit more just depending on where that truck is per day. If we were completely self-sufficient, it's just going to take time.
1:37:49 Yeah, this is going to be a stage program no matter what. All right. Well, thank you. I'm excited to see it.
1:37:56 I know.
1:37:57 Can I ask a philosophical question for the city manager? Um
1:38:03 and maybe for uh the chiefs is is the budget that you're planning to present
1:38:09 for next year including an EMS program? Yes.
1:38:16 Is that kind of the expectation going into it? So we know that depending upon that vote ultimately would be kind of
1:38:24 there'd still be some additional direction at that point, right? Well, if it fails or passes, it gives you either assurance that yes, still present or
1:38:33 okay, we've got to rework that presentation at that point.
1:38:36 Now, it is a separate department department within our department. We've got like the general fire department, we've got our fire inspections division,
1:38:43 now we've got the the EMS transport uh budget. So, you'll see three different budgets presented. One with general fire, one that's understand there is a
1:38:52 little bit of bleed over depending on which direction we go. um and and how independent we choose to be or how much of a partnership we have with the county.
1:39:03 Uh yes, uh I can so the safer grant uh from FEMA uh opened the application window opened uh yesterday. Um notice of
1:39:12 funding. We have until the 22nd uh to apply. Uh also coinciding with that is the assistance of firefighters grant which is the AFG grant. We were both
1:39:21 successful last year in getting an AFG grant for some cancer prevention equipment and safer grant for fire station 5. Our recommendation, and we're
1:39:28 seeking consensus, I know it's kind of an off-topic thing, is to apply for the safer grant this year for staffing for fire station 6 personnel and then use
1:39:38 the AFG grant as an opportunity. We can use that to purchase a fire engine or ask for the purchase of a fire engine to essentially say, hey, let's fund these
1:39:46 two things. With all the projects we're working on with the rescues and getting them housed and everything else, it looks like our funding is pretty tight.
1:39:54 Um, would be our recommendation to seek consensus to apply for those grants. We wouldn't know, we may or may not know before October one what the approval is for those.
1:40:04 Is there any reason why you would not apply for that grant?
1:40:07 There is a financial commitment just like our other safer grant. You know, there is a match on the AFG. There's a 10 10% match um for the firetruck. So at
1:40:15 a at a million3, you know, it's $130,000 commitment plus, you know, plus some of the equipment. And then with the safer
1:40:23 grant, we're looking personnel. So you've got that staffing number and that's 75% covered in years one and two.
1:40:29 So there's a 25% but that doesn't cover the training, the uniforms, the equipment. So it' pretty much be a rinse and repeat of what we did this year. And
1:40:37 then year three would be 50% and then after that, you know, that's staffing that we're going to have to cover in perpetuity.
1:40:42 But if you're doing it anyway, there's no reason not to apply for those grants essentially. Yes. We can we can not move forward.
1:40:48 We cannot move forward. Like if something changes, circumstances changes, we can always we you we can always not accept. Like I say, we vote to accept. Yeah.
1:40:57 We're not on, right? Yeah.
1:41:00 Application. I always support all the grants you can apply for. Yeah. That's that's my viewpoint. Yes. Get as much free money as you can get.
1:41:08 That's just want to bring it up to you guys. No, that's good. Anything else for fire?
1:41:16 Is there any other data points that you guys can take off top of your head?
1:41:19 We're going to be adding some additional stuff before we do. Is there anything else that you guys would like to see?
1:41:24 I think there was so much that we covered in that that workshop. There was a pretty extensive bullet point list if that's been shared with Chief or you guys.
1:41:31 And I have that and and that these are the two that answer those specific questions. But again, if you guys have if anybody in this room has more questions or a point to bring up or a
1:41:40 thought that Chief Kler and I have not thought of, please send them over because we would love to to be able to answer everything fully one time. So we
1:41:49 have a good basis of information for you all.
1:41:51 So the thoughts that I have related to this are let's make sure as we're going through this especially because you've already done the work that police knows
1:41:59 what you're doing, public works knows what you're doing, economic development knows what you're doing or what you're looking at because where the new town
1:42:07 centers might end up might influence your statement. Or, you know, maybe we could include a police substation with some of the new fire stations and, you
1:42:16 know, questions. Start reading.
1:42:20 It's Christmas. Um, you know, so let's just make sure that we're not operating in silos, I guess, is the only thing I
1:42:28 would say once you feel like you have a plan.
1:42:39 Great. Education. Damn it.
1:42:46 Oh, wait. Are we going to break talk with PD? Oh, do we want to? Are they safety? I mean, they're here.
1:42:53 I didn't see them. I thought they were coming up.
1:42:56 Sorry, that was a joke. It was a bad one.
1:43:04 Thank you for Good afternoon.
1:43:14 Thank you. Are we open to the start question?
1:43:21 Oh, yeah. Everybody ready? I'm sorry.
1:43:23 Yeah, I'm looking at my list. You're You're good.
1:43:26 Um I'm curious as to staffing uh with
1:43:32 police and fire uh growing maturing city where what what is the philosophy going
1:43:39 into this budget cycle of of staffing not only for sworn but also now that that council has a authorized the start
1:43:46 of a of a of a more robust nonsworn uh through the cso program community service officer program what are we
1:43:54 looking at potentially philosophical moving into this pleasure here.
1:43:57 I can tell you uh today right now we sit with four sworn vacancies. We have 13 applications for the CSO program as we sit today. Uh what I'm looking at next
1:44:06 year is two additional police officers, one additional cso and then two uh professional staff. So a communications coordinator and an additional record
1:44:15 specialist. That's my staffing request for next year. I think when I went through the presentation at the last council meeting, um I kind of went over
1:44:23 the math kind of quickly. It was about a 1,600 resident increase per year over those five years. So in my mind that two police officers per thousand, a cso
1:44:32 makes up the 600. That's a that's the philosophy I use towards that.
1:44:40 How do you request that we approach any unfilled positions at the end of the year recognizing that it takes time to bring on someone new?
1:44:48 So the I don't anticipate us going into October with any unfilled. I think I think we'll be okay. That will be new. That would be that would be really nice.
1:44:56 U we had it for two months and then it happened. So um but I think we'll have we have a really good shot at filling them. We have plenty of time to fill them. We filled multiple cadet
1:45:05 positions. Handed out multiple conditional officers this week. We'll be handing out conditional offers again next week. So I think filling the swarm
1:45:12 positions would be good. You kind of have to remember too a lot of people move in the summer. So, I'm anticipating
1:45:19 uh some people may have prior law enforcement experience from some not so friendly law enforcement states will relocate to the state of Florida and we
1:45:28 have a good shot at getting some talent in that way. That was easy.
1:45:36 Um I mentioned it in the last but so that I'm with council when we talked about the additional staffing. Um I had
1:45:44 asked chief to make sure he's coordinating with the fire department so that we're getting substations where they wherever they need to be. You know
1:45:52 that kind of thing. Make sure that we're aware of what the potential town centers might be and again not operating a silo but working together.
1:46:01 Yes ma'am. Apparently, we need to keep public works in the loop on what our plans are because Yes, we find money. Yes.
1:46:07 He's Daddy Warbucks. He has Daddy Warbucks. I don't know if we heard that.
1:46:14 He's like, "Oh, he heard it." Great. Is there anything else you anticipate needing from us or requesting from us?
1:46:21 No, we we've been able to secure a lot of grant money this year. So, you're not going to see a lot of u capital requests coming in through the budget this year.
1:46:29 you're going to see us trying to do some of those projects through the grant funding. Um, so you we're looking for creative solutions to get to get what we
1:46:37 need forward. I do have one question for you all and that's the drone first responder program
1:46:44 comfort level. Where do we where I don't need an answer today, but it's just something that we need to be thinking about. The drone is first responder
1:46:51 program is is a a program where bases can be set up on different city locations where if a call for service came in, let's say robbery at at a
1:47:00 location. The drone would be deployed from that base. It would be able to be the goal is to have the drone on scene within 90 seconds that would be able to
1:47:09 feed into the officers data data terminal or their laptop. So that's something that's on the horizon.
1:47:16 Agencies are starting to use it. You see St. Cloud Orlando just made a big investment into it. Something in the future to consider. It is pricey. It's not something that I'm looking at
1:47:24 implementing in 2027, but it is something that we're looking at 2829.
1:47:28 Are they armed? They're not They are not Great question, Christian.
1:47:33 They're not armed, but it's just something that I would like tasers on them or anything.
1:47:38 No tasers. No, it's simply an eye in the sky for when the officers are responding. It gives them some situation.
1:47:43 Is it going to be AI controls or human controls?
1:47:45 Uh, they can be both. They can be deployed by GPS or someone can fly it from the police department.
1:47:51 But deployed by GPS includes a person saying go to this location.
1:47:57 The data the data is put into the drone and the drone was then it's connected to our CAD or a computer aided dispatch. So
1:48:04 we'd know that the GPS coordinates to go to have set up there. So it's not it's not recording in in flight. It's not recording people sunbathing. It's not
1:48:11 doing that. flying directly to the to the location giving the officers as they respond I view what's going on can also
1:48:18 be used for brush fires things like that it's just a matter of how you want to use it within the city if we want to use it what is the number one crime in
1:48:27 Clermont right now number one crime in right now I would have to say it's either a battery we've had a lot of
1:48:34 fights recently or uh a burglary fights this year at residences
1:48:42 Burglaries are mostly commercial motor vehicles. Motor vehicles.
1:48:45 Unlock motor vehicles is our number one issue all the time. Yeah.
1:48:50 If people lock their doors, I can get to top 10 cities real quick.
1:48:55 Are the batteries domestic or or not?
1:49:00 All of the above. All of the but domestic. Uh we there was a fight yesterday at Ocola Pit. uh after school fights, individuals fighting.
1:49:10 Ocio was another one that we had over time. I'd be interested in learning more about what the patterns might be.
1:49:19 And then maybe there's something like the drone program. I don't know how the drone program, it's unclear to me how that would help us with burglaries and batteries.
1:49:30 I would like to be thinking about ways and tools that we can use to reduce our most frequent crimes as well as our most
1:49:39 damaging crimes, whatever those are.
1:49:45 Well, I mean, get eyes if there's a burglary, you might get eyes on whoever the the per Yeah. the person is. I mean, isn't
1:49:53 that the point? Is that Yeah, correct. That's the Is that a facial recognition connected to it? No, there's no no facial
1:50:00 recognition attached to that. I'm not even going to breach facial recognition.
1:50:04 We're not there yet. It's like, no, it would help you all in the sense of somebody's broken into say business A
1:50:11 and you can see if they're still there and you need to send people there. Correct. Or what's happening. Right. Correct. A drone would help with that.
1:50:17 Yeah. You'll be able to see and then establish maybe you need more of a response or less of a response as well.
1:50:23 Let me run you through I'll run you through an example and then maybe it'll help. So, let's say there is a There's a burglary at a
1:50:31 at a medical a medical marijuana dispensary in town and this the front door is smashed, but it comes into us as
1:50:39 an alarm only glass break alarm. Let's say we had the drone program to where it would would deploy to these glass break
1:50:46 alarms. Drone gets there, it's and the officer is able to see that glass is broken. that would necessitate a bigger
1:50:54 response because then you're talking about a perimeter talking about possible K9 on scene talking about at least a minimum of six people with the
1:51:01 supervisor on scene. If the occ if the suspects are still within the building then we call them out. We we do that if
1:51:09 they take off on foot. Now you're talking about an expanded perimeter. So you're talking maybe more of from four people, maybe we're just trying to keep
1:51:16 a small one to now maybe it's eight people. We're locking down multiple blocks and we're looking. So the drone
1:51:23 would be able to assist. So let's say let's say they took off on foot and they were wearing blue shirt, blue pants. The officers would be able to see that and
1:51:31 if they saw somebody walking or running in that area in blue shirt, blue pants, that gives them reasonable suspicion.
1:51:36 Stop that person, conduct their investigation. That's that's a very basic use of the
1:51:43 I need to clarify my goal would be to reduce the crime not necess I mean we need to catch but I'm also concerned
1:51:52 with how do we prevent the crime because you win 100% of fights you don't get in right so if we can figure out what is causing
1:52:00 some of our recurring crimes when I'm looking for the patterns I'm I'm looking at you know what kind of other tools might we be able to empower you or other
1:52:09 departments with to prevent crime from ever happening in the first place. That's wrong.
1:52:16 That's perfect. We we do that both both sides of it. Any other questions?
1:52:23 Thank you. Are you bringing forward any um
1:52:31 programs that we've talked about like bike patrol, ebike? I know you rolled out the new ebike. What what kinds of
1:52:39 things might we expect to see in the budget reference to those? Ebikes, ebike patrol would be built in.
1:52:45 Uh we haven't been at full staff in a long time. So, as we get up to full, you're going to see more of these programs that we had in the past uh come
1:52:52 back to fruition. Uh so, with four openings, we're probably pretty close to being able to uh roll out full-time bike patrols and that. We're probably a couple months
1:53:01 away from that. um other programs right now in the budget that I'm not looking at rolling out any other programs
1:53:08 where we're at. We're looking at expanding what we have once the vacancies are filled. So that would look like more detectives, more traffic officers, nighttime traffic officers, nighttime detectives.
1:53:18 I believe at one point I maybe heard you talk about the mobile is it mobile data crime? Oh, real time intelligence.
1:53:27 Real time intelligence. Yes. That's a couple years out.
1:53:30 Okay. I I know it was something that was talked about at one point a as a future item. We're not quite there yet on that.
1:53:38 Okay. All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
1:53:47 Last that I see is recreation. Oh, no. Education.
1:53:54 Well, I would like to bring up to council to consider the possibility of
1:54:01 encouraging or directing staff to encourage alternative education opportunities in general. Uh besides
1:54:10 just relying on the Lake County School Board for education solutions, there's now a step up in the state.
1:54:17 There's private schools, charter schools, micro schools, homeschooling, you know, places for people to go to
1:54:25 educate their kids. A lot of that relates to development design. Um, I'm not necessarily asking for us to run an
1:54:32 educational um, you know, program, but I am wondering how the council feels about prioritizing alternative education
1:54:41 opportunities as part perhaps this goes towards the comprehensive planning team to consider how that could be implemented.
1:54:48 I'm more interested in having a library.
1:54:50 It's well and that's related to education, right? So I I would suggest I would suggest that every segment of the city whether it's quarters or five or
1:54:58 it's eight or whatever it is have a library. I think every person should have easy access to a library. That would be in my mind one of those places
1:55:06 that all the trails all the roads lead to, you know, part of that community center in those areas. So I'm 100% for libraries. I think it's great.
1:55:14 Yeah. I I have apprehension to us as a council advocating for something that potentially could be direct conflict
1:55:22 with our partner one of our partnering governing bodies. Um and I I think it gets us dabbling into something that I'm
1:55:30 not sure that we need to get involved with as a city council. Um, since we have a school board and uh I think we
1:55:38 could advocate for our school board representative uh for our district to perhaps invite that that person and the
1:55:45 superintendent here to a meeting to talk about exploring alternatives and opportunities rather than us take on that initiative to do that.
1:55:54 I think that's consistent with what I was asking for. Yeah, that would be in line with it. It's just, you know, what we can do or if
1:56:00 there's anything we can do to encourage alternative education opportunities for our our residents. I don't know if you were here, Bryan, but we had the
1:56:09 representatives from the school board come last year. I was out there.
1:56:13 Yeah. And they uh I knew you came to all the meetings, so I wasn't sure if you and you know, I just saw the plan. What
1:56:22 I heard from them was the plan to move such a big body. it moves slow and and we've got schools that are so far apart
1:56:32 that creating walkable if we talk about walkability and being familyfriendly and small business friendly, you know,
1:56:39 people need to have access to education, they need to have access to food, they need to have access to recreation, they need to have access to their government.
1:56:46 And so to me, one of the things that's missing library is great. I mean, that could be an easy way to do it because there's a lot of education that can be
1:56:53 done in libraries. So, I like your idea of bringing out our schoolboard rep maybe as a workshop.
1:56:59 Um, but ways that we can support educational choice for the residents of Fairmont.
1:57:04 So, could we direct the staff to see about funding the library? How much it cost? Sure.
1:57:14 Yes.
1:57:16 Yeah. I think there's some partnership opportunity there with the county. I know they have a role there uh with with what we currently have. And I know there's
1:57:24 some conversations about the college. I think you know ex expanding and and
1:57:31 utilizing that building for the college, not necessarily for a community library.
1:57:36 And so I think we need to get a better footing for where that actually is, what that how that stands, what kind of funding would continue from a different
1:57:45 level. Uh and then what the city involvement would be. So, I think that kind of workshop would be incredibly helpful. Yes. Because it would have a budget impact.
1:57:53 Yes.
1:57:54 We're in ongoing conversations. I mean, the mayor has been looking too about the library. We've just not found the right spot.
1:58:02 Haven't found the right location, but we are actively looking. Okay.
1:58:06 And the county is ready, but they've got a limited budget, too. Okay.
1:58:11 county is is still looking and they're ready to go, but uh in the past we the city has always contributed money to the library and everything. We in the last
1:58:20 few years we haven't been contributing money. Okay.
1:58:23 Um so as a matter of fact big thing now is just find a location for the library. Trying to find a location.
1:58:28 Y'all make that a good priority because I know that's it's been a priority for the last couple of months.
1:58:35 How big does it,000 square feet right now? They they looking for they looking for about 20,000 square feet. That's what the current conversation.
1:58:43 Okay. Yeah.
1:58:44 And basically we we have no library pretty much as it is right now. The one at the
1:58:53 school is basically been shut down. Uh except for I think on Saturday the children library is completely gone I think.
1:59:00 Yeah. It's What about the for What about the Keeler Center for Yeah. I mean, that's kind of a great
1:59:08 size for It's not big enough. It wouldn't be big enough.
1:59:11 Could we use it temporarily to I guess you don't Well, I guess the point is direct staff to find something. I'm not going to be
1:59:19 in support of a massive 20,000 foot library. I'll say that. Um it's I don't want people to have to drive to the
1:59:27 library to get an education. For me, smaller libraries, multiple of them throughout the city, um, is what I would
1:59:35 get on board with. So, if there were places like the Keeler Center kind of in each quadrant down in Wellness Way, you know, smaller, they don't have to be
1:59:44 that small, but I don't think we need to have massive buildings in order to educate our children.
1:59:49 I think it'd be more effective if you have one large thing to to take, like it's an elephant, take it one time, one bite out of it, because you're talking
1:59:58 about five different places or whatnot in this area or whatnot. I think that makes it harder probably because then you got to have
2:00:06 computers, you got to have books, you got to have staff. That's that's more money as I see it versus having one place because Clermont has had one
2:00:15 library for years and years and people drove there. I mean, you have to drive.
2:00:19 It's part of being here in the south. It's hot. Everything isn't walkable. Um, and
2:00:26 I I think going to a library would be a feasible place to have to drive to. And then eventually, what you're saying to
2:00:33 get to the communities, that would be wonderful, but with budget constraints and reality, I think we probably do.
2:00:42 Well, like we could look at the performing arts center as a location right now to to put in a smaller library without having to overwhelm it. And and
2:00:52 I I I think that having four places that are 4,000 square feet or 3,000 square feet is just as difficult or easy to
2:01:00 manage as one place with 20,000 square feet with the only real difference being on one hand people depending on where it's located have to drive 10 to 20
2:01:09 minutes and on the other hand everybody's you know two to 10 minutes I'm also thinking of staffing that's staffing you when you start
2:01:16 talking about all the different location you start talking about staffing all this and it's much easier to manage one location than it is all the separate
2:01:24 besides if you look a tequila cell you said ten what you going to do with the for you put the library in there that's pretty much knocking knocking out uh
2:01:32 your senior centers senior seniors use you start putting the library in there it's keyless center would be I don't
2:01:41 think a good location for a library is too small first of all and then it's already designated as a senior center we
2:01:47 put the library where the senior okay um I think what we've always had as
2:01:55 said we've always had one library located in in the city. I think in a good location. That's why I think our conversation with this county has been
2:02:02 to try to get it in up in the uh central part of what I consider more or less central part of housing up near the
2:02:10 school in that area somewhere. We can find something up in that area. Um which most centralized for everybody growing place size that's where most of the
2:02:18 residents are living up in that area. um that will most likely mostly high school students and college students is up in
2:02:25 that area. So I think something up in that area would be fantastic. Um more convenient, walkable for a lot of the
2:02:33 high school students and they don't have many many high school students, a lot of kids and everything
2:02:40 in this area down here. Uh, I know we looked at using the old police department and we kind of ruled that out
2:02:48 because it was going to be too much work. Uh, just the place is in such bad shape. Going to be too much work renovation.
2:02:56 They didn't want to put money.
2:02:59 Well, I think Council Member Myers brought up directing staff or giving staff kind of a philosophical I keep going back to that approach of, hey,
2:03:08 we'd like to see a an emphasis on what might what would it take to allocate
2:03:14 resources and and funds to a library system, whether that's a a community. we start whether it's community start with
2:03:24 a community and build out to neighborhoods or it's all neighborhoods but present us something guide us through that and and give us something
2:03:32 to to tackle and actually vote on staff has already been working on that so head of the game again
2:03:40 for months for months I mean I remember I brought up library months ago almost a year ago and of course ever since then we've been kind of behind the scene
2:03:48 trying to do all this here that's wonderful and it's It's it has really we need it come down to it's almost a must now because basically the library as Lake S is going away.
2:03:59 Yeah, pretty much gone.
2:04:02 Um big thing is I don't think we have any problem helping the county fund it. We've always
2:04:10 done it in the past. Uh figure out some kind of way to help the county funded.
2:04:14 It's just a big biggest problem right now is find a location building.
2:04:21 I suggest to the old Badcock building and I think by the time they be good well by the time they went to look at that is somebody else had already put
2:04:29 something else in there. I thought it would have been a great location because that's not too far from or even like the old dicks.
2:04:37 Huh?
2:04:37 Oh, the old dicks. What about the old dicks? I think there's somebody in there too.
2:04:42 Somebody's in there. And I thought the old dicks was just I I went to Miss uh Strange and that I thought that would just be way too
2:04:49 Oh, it might be. Yeah, I'm just certain location wise if we're going to do start on some location.
2:04:56 Oh, that's that's pretty much.
2:04:59 But but that's it would be great to have because you know we would be leading education.
2:05:05 Well, there's other partnership opportunities too. Yeah. Well, if there could be maybe like an indoor recreation partner that would join with it, like that would be awesome.
2:05:13 Pickle ball and books or, you know, put it out there indoor playground and books something.
2:05:20 You could have an extensive learning center for little kids. You know what I'm saying? Like some of the bigger cities have done with their libraries.
2:05:26 You could I mean it's I've seen some major ones that are done fabulously innovative incubator uh incubator opportunities for all kinds of business.
2:05:38 We we we'll keep looking. Hopefully they'll keep looking. U actually I was if you haven't been in Mount Ver lately,
2:05:46 Mount Ver just did a new library and like community I guess you can call it library and town hall and everything. If
2:05:54 you haven't been over there to see that, I would I would love to see us if we had the property and funding to do something like that with the Mount V. Is this not over?
2:06:02 Mount Virgin.
2:06:05 They got a very nice little library and I guess it's the town hall movie town hall in there and off little office
2:06:13 space and everything. But it's very nice over get a chance to go over there and check it out.
2:06:22 done in partnership with the county as well if I want to say you want to do community center or recreation is a big picture. Yeah,
2:06:31 recreation talk about
2:06:42 I know that I think if I'm not mistaken DPZ had a a uh a meeting in Lincoln Park
2:06:49 about one of the topics was about community center. Um I know there's been lots of discussions
2:06:57 at various levels about you know should there first of all should there be a community center where the community
2:07:03 center would be located. Um do we want a community center? I certainly would be of the of the mindset of yes. Um it's
2:07:12 just a matter of what and where. Um, and I don't know how I'm not I don't proclaim to have the idea of how we get
2:07:21 to that spot of deciding that, you know, in terms of what that looks like or where that looks like. But I do think, you know, at some point with some of
2:07:29 these bigger topic things like this that either we need to say yes, we're committing to it and we allocate the funds to to study it, to build to to
2:07:38 present it, to to then move it forward, to staff it, whatever.
2:07:43 um or we say it's not on our radar and you know we we're going to move on hopefully maybe someone in the private
2:07:51 sector would work on it because I just think that pushing it on it doesn't do our residents any good
2:07:59 especially the people who are committed to wanting to see it done I think they might not be happy if we that's the decision we made but at least they know
2:08:06 a decision I think we just need to start making some of these bigger decisions and without a plan of what it would look like and supporting it. Um it's kind of
2:08:15 hard to say whether or not we're going to do it.
2:08:17 Yeah. Because if my concern with the community center is the funding of it because we do need it. I believe that.
2:08:24 But it's um the operating um budget for that. I know I benefit from a community center growing up. So I'm a strong
2:08:31 supporter of them. They just don't make money um because they're not intended to make money service. Yeah.
2:08:37 Because it's service. So that's the thing like how much money would we how much would it cost for us to build one?
2:08:44 How much would it cost to operate one? I I think that would help me in knowing yes, we should pursue this or it's just
2:08:52 like you said private sector because um I know for me I had a youth center growing up but it was you know military it was on Air Force bases and stuff and
2:09:00 I'm a strong proponent because it helped me and my brother but um again funding
2:09:08 So I think philosophically one thing that might help us um ideologically is do we as a council generally believe
2:09:17 that bigger is better or do we generally believe that smaller is better? Um because I have heard different
2:09:25 philosophical approaches to some of the things we've talked about today. I'm a believer that smaller is better. So, um,
2:09:32 one thing that I find to be interesting is how many people live and around the Keeler Center who have never been to it and don't even know what it is.
2:09:42 Um, and I think that that actually is demonstrative of the fact that community centers and recreation are best suited,
2:09:51 and this is where I go to libraries. I think that they're best suited close to the people they're intended to serve because just crossing East Avenue, the
2:10:00 many of the folks in Lincoln Park aren't either using Healer Center, which is a community center, um, or they're not
2:10:07 even aware that it's there. I I spoke to some people who live in the Yach Club who didn't even know it was there. And so here we have a community center and
2:10:16 the residents who are within biking distance of it don't even know that it's there. Um, and so I think that's interesting. I'm without putting
2:10:24 judgment on it, um, I I do believe that having amenities close to the citizens
2:10:31 is helpful. One of the, and I bring that up in the context of the community center because an argument could be made
2:10:38 that the parks and recreation or performing arts center is our Clermont community center. Um, but I don't think
2:10:47 it is. I think it's it's its own thing and it's It's unique. I don't think it serves all of the young people. I grew
2:10:54 up going to the we called it the boys club back there and now it's Boys and Girls Club, but I I like you, I grew up in a I was able to have access to a
2:11:03 center where I could go and be with kids and my mom worked and you know that was it was great and and I was able to ride my bike there from school.
2:11:11 Um so that's why to me the school locations are important, the library locations are important. Um, I think a community center and we're talking about
2:11:19 in Lincoln Park. I'm guessing that's we're talking about that one.
2:11:22 I think that's where it's been talked about the most up to this point anyway.
2:11:25 Yeah, I think that that I think there's a great opportunity to build a community center and um, you know, what are the
2:11:33 what people will it serve is always kind of one of the questions when when you talk about any recreational facility.
2:11:40 Yeah. and early conversations that I heard around it related to well anyone can use it.
2:11:46 Um, and I'm not I I I don't think that that is a good approach. Yeah.
2:11:53 To a true community center. I think it should be built for the people in the community. Your neighborhood has a community center. Calling you out because you're on council. Your
2:12:00 neighborhood has a community center and it's for the neighborhood, right?
2:12:04 And it's good size, but it's not the size of the performing arts center, right? So figuring out who we're
2:12:12 serving, what are we serving, I think it's great. We have the McKenna Park property. Um I actually spoke to some of the representatives at the school board
2:12:20 about the property that they own south of McKenna Park. Um generally the feeling I got was if we wanted to be
2:12:27 able to use maybe 100 200 feet on the on the Bloxom Avenue side of that for a new park, that would be an option. And so I
2:12:36 I tend to not take the approach with recreation that one location is good. I
2:12:43 tend to take the approach that having multiple options within walking or biking distance is better for the
2:12:52 community members than having one place that you must go. This is your only option. So creating additional playground spaces, creating additional
2:13:00 walk with nature places, you know, again is do we believe that bigger is better or do we believe that smaller is better?
2:13:08 And I think that will help us guide these conversations if we really look at it because I would
2:13:15 suggest we probably can't have both massive and a number of small ones because the number of small add up to
2:13:24 the cost of one big one. usually whatever that one big one might be unless you go into the private sector.
2:13:31 So I would like to see us have a conversation like that because I'll say my perspective is generally smaller is
2:13:38 better people being within five minutes and I think with the way development's gone I'll say a golf cart works five
2:13:46 minutes u a bike to your point that it's hot most people if if you're just walking five minutes or if you're biking five minutes you're golf cart you start
2:13:54 getting beyond that and it's like I'm getting in my car I'm not doing this anymore because it's too much but if we want to create opportunities for people to be active and in nature.
2:14:02 I I guess I guess because my viewpoint is a little different because I'm used to where you only had one and you drove or you rode your bike, you had to walk. I had to walk 20 minutes to get to it.
2:14:11 So, you know, um and the way our city is set up, you have to drive and when it hits a
2:14:18 certain time, which is I would say now you don't want to walk, it's too hot, you know. Um, but I get your point of
2:14:25 wanting to have more access to, but I don't think it should just be the requirement only is that because somebody's gonna have to drive
2:14:32 regardless. So, we have it at a central location or whatnot. I just keep thinking of funding because if you have multiple, then that's multiple. Okay.
2:14:40 Well, who's going to pay for that? That who's going to staff it? You know what I'm saying? Because I I remember mine sometimes it was just one person that worked there. You know what I'm saying?
2:14:49 Because they were deployed or whatnot.
2:14:50 You know what I'm saying? So, um, reality, you know, it's kind of like that's nice to have small ones, but I think we start with one possibly and see
2:15:00 how much that would cost, um, for the operation as well as the building of it to see if it's even feasible to have multiple locations because I don't know
2:15:08 if that's really feasible financially in the days that we are in. Just saying.
2:15:13 What's our current partnership with Boys and Girls Club at the at the Arts and Rec Center? Bryan can speak to that.
2:15:19 Yeah. Um, and what I mean by that in terms of what's our partnership, what is it, but also what including in that is
2:15:28 financial. Yes. What kind of financial and or staffing is included in partnership? We have a rental contract with them.
2:15:35 They're paying it's around 875 a month and be paying $1,000 a month right now and it's 3% increase every year. It was
2:15:44 a 10-year contract and um, but they just have that space.
2:15:48 Like we don't we might do some if something mainten from a maintenance perspective needs to be addressed we address it but they run their own program and their own space.
2:15:57 Okay. Okay.
2:15:57 Boys and Girls Club they do their own staff and they do all that but we we we basically pay them $1,000. I think with the new contract we did a couple years
2:16:06 ago a 3% increase every year on the contract. I think when we first started we did a $500 a year. $500
2:16:14 and then we we start increasing it. So, um, but the space, uh,
2:16:22 we'd like to I would like to see and I think the Boys and Girls Club would like to come out of that building. Back go back to what Miss Strange was just
2:16:29 saying. Uh, that's considered the community center, but however, due to the location, nobody can get to it.
2:16:35 Okay. And the numbers for the Boy and Girls Club is really down because parents can't even afford to take their kids there now because of the location and all. and then go back to Lan Park.
2:16:47 That's why the conversation came around Lan Park and the community center in there. Of course, we build it. We can move the Boys and Girls Club in there and and
2:16:56 more it's more feasible and walkability for the kids because uh study showed a year a few years ago. I don't think well I don't know what the study is now
2:17:04 because it's been about 10 12 years since we did the study but 65% 65 75% of our kids uh at the time live within a
2:17:13 2-m radius of the Lincoln Park area of the boys and girls club kids that when we was doing the Boys and Girls Club originally we tried to put the Boys and
2:17:21 Girls Club at uh Clout Middle School but the principal administrator would not let us go in there so that's why we did
2:17:28 the different end up at the uh uh CPAC Um once we uh got CPAC, we was able to
2:17:36 move them in there and gave him a per home. I think in the first four years we had the Boys and Girls Club, we moved it five times. Okay. Uh we started out over
2:17:44 on Mohawk. We went down, we was at a couple of the different church. I think was at the Presbyterian church. We was at uh
2:17:51 what's that? Living hope, you know. And of course, we finally got in there when we took over got in the CPAC when we finally uh purchased that movement in
2:18:00 there. And We used to have over 300 kids a day going in the boys and girls club when it first started. Of course, it was
2:18:08 new and we had the cost and it was really reasonable and the cost of living wasn't so bad at the time when we first
2:18:16 did it. So, parents were really using a lot with the cost of living and everything going up. Now, I'm finding we have a lot of lucky kids um kids going
2:18:24 home in that in the evening and because the parents just can't afford and the kids can't get there. So that was the big
2:18:31 idea behind the boys and girls uh Ben uh new community center down in the Lincoln Park area which we looked at the
2:18:39 did 10 acres back there that he talking about doing a live local project u what the city that's what we was preparing to
2:18:47 try to purchase that 10 acres back there to put the Boys and Girls Club back in the back and which already uh complement McKini Park. You already got McKini Park
2:18:55 and all these things there. So, with with community center, all we had to do was really put a building in. Wouldn't have to worry about extra fields and all
2:19:03 that because you already had that existed.
2:19:05 What if we did like a 30-year lease with the Boys and Girls Club? Would they build a center on that property in McKenna?
2:19:13 Well, well, first of all, you don't want to building on McKenna. Why? We don't want to tear up McKenna Park. I mean, if
2:19:19 you how you going to you put a field uh building on McKenna Park, then you you taking away fields and everything else
2:19:27 that's highly utilized right now. It is very highly utilized. McKini the fields up there. So that's that's one of the big fights. I know the people that's
2:19:36 trying to do the Boys and Girls Club, we we kind of mashing because that's what they want to do is tear up the the field up there and put building in there. But
2:19:43 if you do that, you're talking about parking. you squeezing in parking and you're taking away a lot of a lot of space that kids are utilizing right now
2:19:52 for recreation, softball, football, all these kind of different activity. Um, I know we need more fields. Bryan can
2:20:00 probably speak to that as well. That one of the question the last meeting I had with them is uh uh can they find somewhere else? No, that's why they there because it's it's nowhere else.
2:20:10 Now, I gave him I gave the last the group that's working with it, I gave them an option that you all may not know
2:20:16 about. Um, but right behind um
2:20:23 O'Reilly's on Highland Avenue and O'Reilly's, we own we own about three acre. I think a little less than three acres the city
2:20:32 own that that's where old water tower used to be for the city years ago when I grew up, but that's still our our property. So I because I'm I looked at
2:20:41 it as hey that's that's an option we can put a community center in there as well I think so anyway uh we wouldn't end up
2:20:50 tearing up McKenna Park is still walkable it's accessible and other thing is very accessible even you got the bus route u on Highway 50 that can stop
2:20:59 there and kids can walk because you got bus stop there and I think it's one right there across the street uh right where what's that old Mickey burns
2:21:08 building is a bus stop there. It's another one of Wind Dixes. So, you got walkability even off a bus stop. I think that's me. I think it's a great location.
2:21:16 Why hasn't that come? I've never heard that.
2:21:19 Well, it's something I threw out there at at the group. Uh uh what was when was the last meeting we had with them? M about three weeks ago.
2:21:27 Three weeks ago. I I gave them that option. And of course, they kind of frowned upon that, but I'm like the Boys and Girls Club. the group
2:21:34 that's really fight uh working to try to do the girl uh the the uh art community
2:21:41 center and another reason I like the community center and I've been pushing the community center for years for 10 years or so I've been talking about a
2:21:49 community center uh goes back to your education portion because we're not the city isn't responsible for education okay that's not our job we
2:21:58 have the school board to do that but in the meantime if we have a community center. We can go in there and we can offer little classes like have somebody
2:22:07 come in and do GED classes or specialized classes and everything. And I know Miss Mario's talked about it.
2:22:14 See, I I did these kind of thing. This what I read. I ran community centers. I did these kind of things for the Air Force.
2:22:22 And when you start and Yeah. and we had to offer these things for our our our um service
2:22:31 members and all and that was part of that were very much my job uh community centers and when you start talking about all these different location as you go
2:22:39 back again now I got one over here I got staff there and I got another one I got a staff there you got to have programs in both of them your cost goes up
2:22:47 tremendous so when you got one central location you're better you're better off and but we're seeing this play out that we
2:22:56 have one central central location and because we're so big, it's not serving the community that it needs to serve.
2:23:03 Right. Well, it's not in in the best of say I wouldn't say it's a central location of it of its highest use uh
2:23:10 kids if we're talking about Boys and Girls Club. That's what I'm saying.
2:23:13 Yeah. It's just not in the location of its highest use.
2:23:15 But like the people in Wellness Way probably aren't going to come to Lincoln Park. I mean, there's probably a need for a community. That's what I'm saying is that when I look at it like what is
2:23:24 the square footage that the Boys and Girls Club is using now at the CPAC give or take. I'm not looking for an exact 2,000 square feet,000 square feet.
2:23:32 No, it's more than that. It's it's it's a about a quarter of the building. So, I'm going to say 8,000 just that's a random number.
2:23:42 Yeah, we would love we would love to get them out of the Boys and Girls Club and give it back to the city so the city can do a little bit more with it as well.
2:23:49 But keep in mind, um, they also have the pool up there. They also have the, uh, the basketball court. See, and when you
2:23:57 start talking about a community center, you need you need the basketball court, volleyball court, all these things. So, um, definitely need a court.
2:24:03 But so, and of course, you can have room in there for the boys and girls and all these extra rooms that you can do some education, specialized education,
2:24:11 training and everything, which I don't think is any problem. But having some craft rooms and stuff and then of course direct staff to look
2:24:20 and see how much of I'm sure you already look. Do we own that real estate? What you find a year and a half?
2:24:27 Do we own the real estate he just described? I didn't know we own that this three acres.
2:24:33 I think it's a little less than three acres. It's not going to fit everything. No, it's not going to fit everything.
2:24:38 Three acres. You can put you can put a twotory building that has a gym.
2:24:44 See, and that's why I said in the past we we looked at at least having about 10 acres or five acres.
2:24:52 I guess we just do Can we just do a smaller one then where you just have a smaller gym. You have a a like a craft
2:25:01 room, a billyard's room, and then a little mini kitchen. I'm thinking about what I had as a kid. It was not big. You could do a threetory.
2:25:08 has a gym on the top or a gym on the bottom and the classrooms on the second and third. You don't have to be left the discussion.
2:25:15 Mr. Mayor, he suggested this to his credit.
2:25:18 They're going to have a community meeting. Okay.
2:25:21 And then he said, "We'll let the residents decide what they want to do." And I I respected you for doing that, Mr. Mayor.
2:25:29 He has his opinion and he told the ladies, "If that's what the residents want at McKenna, we'll do it." So, I don't know, Mr. mayor if they put that meeting.
2:25:38 Well, they haven't put it together yet cuz I live in the community, but basically what it boils down to is like I said, they want to tear up Mckini Park and take all the whole upper level Mcken
2:25:47 Kenn all the grass area and put buildings in there and make a community center. So, you have no play, no play areas, no softball fields, no really
2:25:57 other than what you have down below with the pavilion and the and the basketball court.
2:26:01 Well, and I'm not for that. And most of the people I talk with in the community, they don't they don't they don't want to see that happen either. Okay? Uh because
2:26:09 you're taking to where is all the kids that's utilizing that for for softball practice, football practice, where are
2:26:17 those kids going to go? Okay. Well, DPZ did a design for that in McKenna Park and they basically if you broke it up
2:26:24 into three sections where you've got the front section with the playground, the gazebo, the suggestion was to put the building in the center and then maintain the
2:26:32 softball. So, it's it's quite big and if you don't spread it out there was everything centered around the upper portion again tearing out the port.
2:26:41 I'm just saying there could be a different design that could I think you're right. I think they need an outdoor play space. You need an indoor play. You got to have all that. classrooms.
2:26:49 I like the idea. I think your point about the bus stop is really good. I like What is the name of that street? Is it Highland?
2:26:56 Well, that was another reason I were looking at. We looked at the 10 acres there behind McKenna Park with all the pine trees if we could have gotten hope
2:27:03 to that. We even we even tried we even tried to purchase the u eight acres I guess it was where where the Volkswagen dealership.
2:27:12 We're looking at that as well. And we do have two now. Yeah, we have two. Exactly.
2:27:16 Right. So, we have two. I mean that you could put soccer fields there. You put a soccer field where the school board is.
2:27:22 I mean there's again you could spread it out so it doesn't make it all be in one place.
2:27:28 Where I'm going to get to yes on community centers and the like is if they are cost effective to build
2:27:36 but also that we have a public private partnership. That that's where I think the point you make about staffing and it's a valid point.
2:27:45 Oh god. Oh, that one is 1.7.
2:27:49 Oh, that is pretty small, but it's worth looking at.
2:27:51 It's it's it's very small, but you know, and the reason I threw that out there, Adam, because they looking at the portion up there at McKenna Park, if
2:28:00 they were to take McKenna Park, you're looking at uh less about the same same amount of space about two acres or so, two or three cuz I think whole Mckenni Park is just under five acres, you know.
2:28:10 So, yeah. Split it in half. So that's why I'm saying if you feel like you can build that, hey, well, let's let's put it over here on this piece as well.
2:28:16 Yeah, let's look at this piece. Um, or maybe now it's another another thing I I'm I'm looking at. We considered was uh up on
2:28:25 on just up off the uh Pit Street along Blatson. Uh right now I think there is
2:28:33 five two five acres tracks there. I think we got a proposal to put some something in there. They still waiting uh to come back. Uh the one right behind the apartment complex.
2:28:42 I know what you're talking about.
2:28:43 We looked at trying to purchase those those acres that couple old plots as well a couple years back to try to put the boys put the put it in there. It's
2:28:51 kind of out of the way. I like the other two locations.
2:28:54 Well Well, yeah. But so can you all look into that one? The location that he was talking about right I think I think he I think I pretty much
2:29:03 let him know that we want to keep eye on the uh live local that live local project if it's fall
2:29:10 through right now because I don't know where it's going. Okay. And if not let's let's look at trying to purchase that purchase that but that's outside of our I mean that's
2:29:19 a part that's a private if if the Boys and Girls Club wants to buy land and build something that that's on them.
2:29:24 What we're talking about is a communityf funed community center.
2:29:27 Well that's what I'm saying. We as the when I saying we that was the city not the boys and girls club we city was looking to purchase the 10 acres behind
2:29:35 McKenna Park not the boys and girls club okay for the community. Y'all mind if we move on? Yeah no that's fine.
2:29:42 We're we're actively looking. Okay.
2:29:44 We were so we had communication and engagement strategies.
2:29:53 Do we can I just ask Bryan the same question I guess for Mr. Foreman. Any bigger ticket, newer items, innovation,
2:30:02 whatever that that you might be bringing forward in the next budget.
2:30:06 No, no, I mean the big ticket items, the really big ticket items are Bishop Field, which we just talked about last week, and and meet in the middle. Those are the really big ticket items.
2:30:14 Okay.
2:30:14 There'll be some other moderate things, but Okay. Okay. On the subject of meet in the middle.
2:30:20 Could we would we can I get support to
2:30:27 look at an alternative drawing for the meet in the middle the direct staff to get something and here's here's what I'm a different person altogether or
2:30:35 just well Jeff does it okay um the things that have really worn on me with that project are the amount of
2:30:44 concrete involved in it the tearing out of the trees that are there okay and I continue to hear from community, they want the pier, they want the pier, they want the original old pier back.
2:30:55 And I think there's probably a scenario where we can still have the tiered seating area. We can still have a
2:31:02 veterans memorial. In fact, the specifics I would look for is to do the tiered seating area where the trail
2:31:10 comes up and have the veterans memorial on the waterfront rather than up above where people's backs are to it. instead have it to where the memorial is on the waterfront.
2:31:20 So when you sit in the tiered area, you're looking at the flags with the lake behind you. It could allow us to maintain the grassy area with the trees,
2:31:30 maybe extend the trees and line it down so you have a shaded space. And and I think that it's
2:31:38 potentially a more affordable alternative that we could just fund and and get the pier back and have this really great seating area with a
2:31:47 beautiful memorial and and the veterans feel heard and and received and we're not spending $10 million. Um, and in the
2:31:56 in the comprehensive plan with ABA, they were talking about how we have a mile linear park. And if you imagine, we could maybe make let the cycling be more
2:32:04 of something that's incorporated into the whole mile instead of trying to shove everything in one place. And then as you're coming up the trail, you would
2:32:13 see this memorial with the flags and it would just be the entrance to downtown.
2:32:18 And, you know, we're talking $10 million. And I just kind of think maybe having another option that
2:32:25 if I could get your support to direct staff, I I would like to do that. That sounds great.
2:32:29 I think he's already doing the second option. So then I don't know what what phase are we up to with I have no idea.
2:32:34 We we've done we've done two different option and I think we've voted on or we've uh voted on the design and everything. One of the options at the
2:32:42 last council member that was approved um on engineering and it's not going to be and the cost isn't going to be $10 million. Okay.
2:32:50 It's going to be a lot less than less than 9 million right now. Um last last they got and I'm expecting the cost even
2:32:58 go down even less than that and the funding is available already. So um
2:33:05 I'm hearing yeah they want they want the pier back and they definitely want the pier back but also they they put the uh slips on the pier as well. That's been a
2:33:14 big requirement and people been asking for that for years. Okay. Even be even before I was I'm hearing the pier, but not a lot of support for slips.
2:33:23 Yeah, I'm hearing the pier.
2:33:24 Well, we had a vote. I mean, the council had a vote in October, but the vote was to move forward with engineering so we could make an informed decision and to put it out to bid and to then
2:33:33 bring it back so that we could vote on it. Right.
2:33:36 And that that was the that was the directive that I think council member Peterson made that motion. And I know that there was some conversation after that about did you actually fund it? No,
2:33:43 it was the I went back I've wa I've I've watched that meeting multiple times to try to clear up that confusion on that
2:33:50 and I believe it was to move forward with a plan at the reduced input footprint and cost so that it
2:33:59 could then go to design go out for bid come back to council so it could get an up or down vote and there could be a decision. I look at
2:34:08 this as very similar to the conversations related to fire station 2.
2:34:13 Not all of us may be happy with where we are, but we have to move forward at some point.
2:34:20 And either we vote it up or down, but this constant redo redo. Uh we're not
2:34:28 going anywhere. We're not actually doing anything. and it's going to be another year before we get to this point again if we ask for another whole redesign in
2:34:36 architectural rendering. And I I just can't support that. I just I I want to see what they bring forward based off what council approved and decide whether
2:34:45 or not we move forward with it. Um that would be my preference. If we're going to do something else, uh I I would uh I
2:34:53 would um I guess argue that that needs to be done through a resolution because we approved this process through a
2:35:01 resolution that it wouldn't be just something we would just consensus give here. Uh that it would have to be through a formal resolution to alter that path because that was a council decision.
2:35:11 Can may I make a state just to let you know it's it's not stopped. It's moving forward. It's going through permitting.
2:35:19 Okay, drawings are continuing. Okay, so my suggestion if you considered something would not to stall or stop
2:35:27 anything because it's been too long.
2:35:29 Too long and you got to do you keep moving and if you consider something else that's you guys' decision, but it's moving forward. Yeah.
2:35:37 I mean, I we signed a check for St. John's water management the other day. Everything's moving forward.
2:35:42 St. guns with permitting and all that is moving forward based upon uh but before Bryan left I wanted to go back to one of the things you said
2:35:50 about ebikes and everything. Uh can you comment on the on the u email you got for the ebikes and lesson?
2:36:01 Oh yeah, Deborah Haj reached out about doing a program um related to education
2:36:08 and ebikes and a trail and the new laws that are coming out in July. and I'm working on setting up a meeting with her and PD and and her. So, she she came to me a couple months ago.
2:36:20 Well, we had been talking a couple months back and and she told me she wanted to work as well, I kind of asked agreed to go ahead and have her work on
2:36:27 our program. And of course, she got the program. I'm going ask her to go to Bryan and work with Bryan in the PD department so we can get some education
2:36:35 on on that thing because we need to do something about these ebikes especially on our trails and everything. So, he's working on setting up that hopefully in
2:36:44 the next I'm hoping to get done before the 1 of July because I think the new law in effect the 1 of July, but I don't know where I know I just saw the email
2:36:52 today where you was you all was communicating.
2:36:56 U, but I wanted to get that out there since uh uh Council Member Bang mentioned ebikes earlier. So, let him know where we're at on that.
2:37:06 It's working. I I I think you ready to go, Bryan.
2:37:13 Yeah, I'm I'm here if you put you on the spot. Thank you.
2:37:21 But may be I thank Mr. Mr. Van Wagner say everything moving forward. The last I got is the in June they will be
2:37:30 coming. I think Mr. Pow is coming to us to present us with with uh uh engineering and drawing and everything
2:37:37 for us to move to continue to move forward and once that depending upon what we do on at council meeting um
2:37:44 whether it goes out for so we vote to take it out. Is that the process we're doing?
2:37:50 I think that's what I was told we because all we approved was engineering.
2:37:53 Yeah. So, okay. That's what I want to make sure. Yeah. So, it's it's coming back in June. Soon as I get it. Oh, or what? Whatever.
2:38:02 Last conversation I had with Mr. F. He said he's looking to bring it in in June. Bring it to us in June. So, I'm not sure.
2:38:08 Our next one was communication and engagement strategies for citizen participation.
2:38:21 Oh, okay.
2:38:23 for meet us in the middle. It's going out for engineering drawings. Do I need to bring that to the council per
2:38:34 Yeah. Once he going to bring the drawing, the engineering, everything come back to us in June and if we approve that, then it goes back to
2:38:40 Freddy for for uh for for bids and all is where I was told is at right now.
2:38:49 So, just to be clear, the only drawings that we've looked at are do we want to do the land and the water or do we just want to do the water or just the land?
2:38:56 We actually haven't seen a second concept for the park itself.
2:39:00 We we've seen several different concepts for the park. Okay. Over the years, we we we had two or three different concepts that went on and I think this
2:39:09 the council last last time we really be on the concept, we had two options. Okay. With the water or not with the water.
2:39:17 Well, with the water, that's not an option. That's just more of one with the option. But we bid it on on the I think we had one or two option. We bid
2:39:25 it on the seven. I think the council decided on the second option number two and we sent him back to do the engineering and everything on that
2:39:32 course. The Army Corps of Engineers that was the lengthy thing, right? And of course, even after that, we we went back and made a couple adjustments to to that option as well.
2:39:43 Okay. And that's what I think that's what he constantly what he's presently working on. We'll we'll see where he comes from.
2:39:50 I've never seen a second option. So if the council doesn't want to support an alternative, then continue to be the
2:39:57 sole no vote, I guess. But I don't think that the concrete and ripping out all the trees and, you know, we we already
2:40:05 have concrete that we have a hard time keeping up with now. This is going to be the showcase piece. We're just adding more concrete. So, I just think it's I
2:40:14 know that it's exhausting that it's been several years, but even when this started, it never came to the public for a whiteboard for a visioning. It was
2:40:23 just something that was done and brought to the public. And significantly, it's not changed since four years ago. It looks almost exactly the same.
2:40:33 I was just asking for something alternative where you don't have your back to the Veterans Memorial, which did get added later. I
2:40:41 great um communication enga engagement strategies for citizen participation.
2:40:54 Where are we with the funding that we did with the entity that we hired? I'm blanking on the name now.
2:41:01 Um True North Communication True North.
2:41:03 Yeah. Where are we with that process and how will that affect our our budget proposals this year?
2:41:10 They they should be coming back to council probably in June for a recommendation, probably the second meeting of June. I think they wrapped up
2:41:18 all their stakeholder talks or interviews and I think their plan is to come back late in the second meeting in June to talk to you guys.
2:41:26 Okay. And that would potentially have budget items. Okay.
2:41:34 Yeah, I I don't know what their recommendation is going to be, but it could be anywhere from more staff, more consulting, I don't know. Or stay the course.
2:41:44 And then we have parks and nature within five minutes of all citizens. I feel like we can talk about that, right?
2:41:50 Then um firsttime buyers home financial education for youth. Um that's something
2:41:58 I would like for us. There's some type of way to help our young people home ownership in our city.
2:42:09 I would like along with that I would like to see one of the things I I'm not sure I think I mentioned it to Mr.
2:42:18 Van Wagon before I would like to see the city get into some kind of scholarship program for you.
2:42:24 Okay. Offering some kind of scholarships for home ownership college.
2:42:29 Not not homeowner. I'm talking educational college. So we talking about youth and uh uh you're talking about financial education. I'm talking about
2:42:37 overall education. I think college college and we need to maybe look at start trying to fund some type of
2:42:45 scholar. Isn't it something the chamber does, Vinnie? Well, that's what pig on the pond is.
2:42:50 Yeah, that's pig on the pond does that. But that's pig on the pond. They separate entities.
2:42:54 I I think we the city need to look at doing doing some more that we I don't think we can ever have too many scholarships out there for the people.
2:43:03 I would like to have more firsttime home buyers for our young people who have.
2:43:09 Mor, I thought you said you didn't think the city should be involved in education.
2:43:13 We uh offering scholarships, not getting not trying to teach them. It's trying to help help our young folks get ahead.
2:43:20 Not suggesting the city have a teaching curriculum or program. I'm suggesting that we create avenues to make it easier
2:43:28 for alternative educational providers to come to the city, whether whatever that might mean. But I think that we already
2:43:36 subsidize Pig on the Pond. we just approved their 2027 and their actual platform is scholarships. So I I just I
2:43:46 think philosophically too it it would be nice if we could have an agreement on do we believe the government can do these
2:43:53 things better or do we believe the private sector should be doing things that in my mind the government's job is clean water roads
2:44:02 public safety and and after that I don't I'm I I have a hard time getting supporting government running
2:44:10 programming and and philosophically it might just be that we are on different pages. It's just like community centers.
2:44:17 I'd like to see a public private partnership. The Boys and Girls Club wants to come and do a long-term lease on a facility that we build. I'm very interested in that. The library, there's
2:44:25 a library organization that wants to come. I'm I'm all for that. When it comes to choosing between lowering the millillage or or funding more government
2:44:35 staff and employees, I'm gonna choose lowering the mill unless it's related to water, sewer, police, fire, and and I
2:44:43 think we kind of bump against that philosophical difference sometimes. So, just for me, it's philosophical. It's
2:44:50 not individual project oriented. It's more who should be doing a thing. So, I love that Pig on the Pond is here. I
2:44:59 think it's great. If we want to add additional funding to support pay on the pond, I'm cool with it. I think that's wonderful. But I don't think we should be competing with them.
2:45:12 There there are some models out there, Council Member Myers, of communities that do different type of um home buyer,
2:45:20 whether it's grants or loans or forgivable loans, those types of things.
2:45:25 I know that a a time has evolved. They've changed, but there are some out there. And I I think
2:45:33 that um has our our city size and larger is typically where you would find something like that if we did that. Okay.
2:45:43 I also think that in some cities where they have like a department of community development, okay,
2:45:50 versus economic development, but it's either a joint office or there's a focus on community development and looking at
2:45:58 things like community development block grants and different type of housing initiatives, um, neighborhood associations, those types
2:46:06 of things that, uh, perhaps maybe that's something that, again, kind of going back to the um the healthcare idea.
2:46:15 Maybe that's something that we talk about as a strategic priority if we agree for the city manager through that evaluation process to kind of look at
2:46:23 and say are okay outside of the service that we currently do are there any new things like a healthcare like
2:46:34 a housing initiative program or community development if you want to kind of put it under that umbrella um that we might want to do that could
2:46:41 benefit our residents and and have that conversation. Um, I don't know how I don't know if we would be able to create
2:46:48 something like that for this budget. You know what I mean?
2:46:52 I'm trying to think of what I know about those programs like how we would do that right now without the infrastructure in city hall to to try to like drive that.
2:47:02 You're right. And you'll even right or even if we could just give the information for them to like connect them with the people who actually do that. You know what I'm saying?
2:47:13 Affordable for things like that. Do you have houses regulations?
2:47:17 Yeah. Yeah. Are you all familiar with Ready Set Orange? No, I'm not.
2:47:21 I If not, I encourage you to Google Ready Set Orange. It's a program that Orange County does and they basically
2:47:26 have um like multiple iterations of ADUs or small housing that if you build one
2:47:35 of these, it's an expedited process and the and the, you know, it goes a lot quicker, a lot smoother. there's a lot less hoops to go through because they
2:47:42 don't have to review as much. There's things like that that we could do that I think maybe we might have some resources
2:47:49 available for us currently that we wouldn't need to add some additional things that could encourage some of that small affordable housing things, but
2:47:57 that could also at the same time work to try to improve homeowner home ownership and access to home ownership. Um Groveland has the same thing.
2:48:06 Groveland does something like that as well. And so I think maybe there's those are some ways that we could look at, you know, maybe we need to maybe we want to
2:48:13 encourage a future examination of community development from that lens and looking at how that would work within the city.
2:48:22 I like that. Yeah, we already have we already have some ordinance on the book for ADA use and everything that encourage try to encourage them.
2:48:30 Yeah. And this one even goes a step further.
2:48:32 Take take advantage. No, this one even goes a step further and says basically if you choose one of these five plans, you're basically
2:48:39 here you go. And uh yeah, take a look at it. Ready Set Orange. It's a really interesting program that they're doing um that you know we could model. Grovin,
2:48:47 like I said, like you said, Grovin also has something out there like something like also have
2:48:53 so discouraging for them. It is fountain.
2:49:06 I didn't put that down.
2:49:07 Yeah, I think Well, I think that was one of the things that somebody selected, but we just had that presentation.
2:49:12 No, I put I I put that in there because that's been a require that's been one of the requests that's been asked for me
2:49:19 for years. Uh because we East Lake is down off of Pit Street and they always had problem with uh East Lake
2:49:27 with uh where they where they always thought with algae in the lake and everything. So they always thought found in there would help create uh get rid of
2:49:35 the algae algae problem down the algae ro. So we've done they've done some cleaning up on the lake is pretty clean right now and did a lot of work.
2:49:45 Who's responsible for that lake? We are.
2:49:47 Is that's well not I don't think they Uh we we take care of the lay around it, the the the shores and everything else,
2:49:54 the lake and all that. And we actually the city actually paid to have it have it uh little work done on it cleaned up.
2:50:01 But Mr. M weather back then Oh, okay.
2:50:06 Yeah. But we we we've done some work in the past.
2:50:08 So if there if there was like algae bloom like a huge algae bloom in there or something, who would who would be responsible for addressing that? Is it the state property?
2:50:17 I I don't know. That's what I'm asking.
2:50:18 Like who owns East who who actually owns quote unquote East Lake?
2:50:21 I said last time we went through the I went to public work public work got in touch. Oh Stony is still that's an interesting question. I've
2:50:29 never thought I've never thought about that.
2:50:31 Well they they coordinated just like they do with Lake Minnola. Same thing with Lake Minnola. It's actually the health department.
2:50:39 They set the rules.
2:50:41 The state they do they do the testing. Yes. They do the testing through the state. Say that's who did it. So they will they will give the warnings about no swimming and all that good stuff.
2:50:52 It's all coordinated through through Stony and I think uh last time we had to clean up Lake Miniola and yeah we we've done some work on the
2:51:01 lake. We some discharge in there through storm water for that lake. So the aation may help that.
2:51:09 When when was the last time we had a fountain there? Never had one.
2:51:13 Oh we've never had one. Okay. So Center Lake. We have Yes, Center Lake. We put diamond in there some years ago that and it it made a tremendous difference.
2:51:22 So, we think that using that logic it might help. Yeah. What does something like that cost?
2:51:31 I think we budgeted 60 under $70,000. Yeah. You got to get the power there.
2:51:38 You got to get it across the street into the lake.
2:51:41 Tie into the power by the lift station that's adjacent to it.
2:51:46 Are there any community groups that might find this to be important enough to them to help fund it? I have no idea.
2:51:57 The XYZ ABC fountain at East Lake.
2:52:03 And and thing is the lake uh and I'll throw this in there trying to really keep the lake looking good and beautifying. Uh some people still fish
2:52:11 in the lake. Uh still a lot of fishing in there, but actually to me it got some historical value. But whether y'all realize or not be uh years ago, that's
2:52:19 where uh the people in Lincoln Park used to have to swim. Used to have to swim in there before they stopped us from swimming in there and made us come on over to what is now West Beach.
2:52:29 They had to swim in there. That's that's where we were we swim at. Yeah.
2:52:34 They weren't allowed to swim at West Beach or is it not? Well, during our time coming up, West Beach was created for us because we
2:52:42 weren't allowed to swim in at water. The waterfront now used to be called JC Beach. They had that, but we couldn't swim there. We used to swim in East
2:52:50 Lake. Lincoln Park, most of us swimming in East Lake. Hell, our summer program there, East Lake. Uh, and all at once,
2:52:57 they for some reason I they said health issues and everything. and he kicked us out of there and moved us over to West Beach. That's why it used to be called
2:53:05 Black Beach. That's why we called Black Beach at a time because that's where we all swim. Still wasn't authorized to swim over here.
2:53:13 Crystal Lake was used back Crystal Lake was more or less considered a private lake. most of the homeowners down along the lake shore here was
2:53:22 pretty much and um every once in a while we would try to slip in there but we would get run chased off
2:53:31 you know so but yeah uh so it has a little historic value and that's one of the reason they they like to see it it
2:53:39 it keep looking good because it was like I say we used to have to swim in there that's where we swim at I learned to
2:53:46 swim in that you know, they took me out there and threw me in and say swim or drown. So, I guess I'm still here. I learned to swim.
2:53:55 But that's it. And I've even had some requests to put a a path all the way around the lake, but
2:54:04 I don't think that'll ever happen either. The path would never happen because I think the owners up on the uh north side of the lake, I think they got
2:54:12 ownership all the way down to the lakefront. I'm not sure. I think so.
2:54:16 Just doing the pass. A lot of people want to see a pass and instead of them walking the sidewalk all the way up to East Avenue and be able to walk around the lake.
2:54:28 Well, I wanted to bring up one more thing before we leave because I think we got everything on here right for you all to consider. Um, and it's
2:54:37 for us as a council. Um, I wanted to bring up for us to have a pay increase.
2:54:43 Um, I looked at I kept a a log of the hours that I've kept over the last several months and divided it by um what
2:54:52 we make now and it comes to about 10 bucks an hour. You make that much an hour.
2:55:00 I don't think I make m Mr. W go back and if I'm not mistaken I hear what you're saying and I've had people we a lot of
2:55:07 people have come to me and say we need a pay increase. I've even had people come to council say, "Hey, we need to be in more." But I think it's in our charter
2:55:15 how how our pay is structured and everything. And it has to go to the people for increase. I think I don't I don't believe so. I don't know if it's in our charter.
2:55:23 I'm looking I'm looking because that's um it does talk about I I don't think we can I don't think we authorized to vote vote ourselves.
2:55:32 Well, we can't vote for ourselves, but we can imply we could vote it for future councils.
2:55:37 Well, here's what it says in section seven of the charter. The council may determine the compensation of council
2:55:44 men by by ordinance, but no ordinance increasing such compensation shall become effective until the date of
2:55:51 commencement of the terms of councilmen elected at the next election.
2:55:55 Councilman shall receive their actual and necessary expenses incurred in the performance of their duties. So, you can pass it by ordinance, but it'll only be
2:56:03 effective. It won't we can't like I say we can't vote ourselves on a pay increase basically what it boils down to.
2:56:12 Did you have data I'm sorry I did they're still going there. Do you have data as to what other entities I do municipalities are
2:56:19 I do like um Broward County and Margate City they make their population is 60,000 their
2:56:26 council member salary is 45,000 Winter Haven is 12,000 Sarasota is 44,000
2:56:34 Bonita Springs is 19,000 AOE is 4,000 um Fort Pierce is 32,000
2:56:42 Coral Gables is 38,000 Titus This bill is 12,000. The land is 11,000 and Orman Beach is 14 and ours is 8,500.
2:56:53 Is it a year?
2:56:55 And Groveland the one once uh for last study I really was involved with Groveland was probably the highest paying council me council around here in
2:57:04 Lake County at one point. Well, when we was only getting $3 and $400, okay, uh,
2:57:11 Groen was getting $15 and $1,200 way back when. Um, and we just went from three to three and $400 in 2019. Mr.
2:57:20 War, is that when that new ordinance went in? We we got the pay increase with 2019. Oh, I don't know.
2:57:26 I think it I think it's it's set up there. But in 2014, we were still doing three and the council was doing 300. uh
2:57:34 mayor was getting 400 and that was one of my initiative well one of one of the initiative I talked to the mayor incoming mayor about trying to get the
2:57:42 pay increase because uh I thought it was getting too little money and besides I wanted to try I thought a increase in
2:57:49 pay will maybe get people interested in wanting to run and everything and I think it finally went through in 2018 or
2:57:56 2019 I think it finally went to where we are now of course each year with the new pay scale we get an increase each
2:58:04 because I think when it first went into effect uh the city council member was getting 600 and
2:58:12 then a month and then the uh mayor was getting 700 but it it's it's increased a little bit now. So where we are now. So
2:58:21 uh you can you can as he say you can make a motion and and do it or look at an increase but we you won't see the
2:58:28 benefit of it. You can't do it until the private council. Okay. We can't vote ourselves uh my understanding we can't vote ourselves an increase.
2:58:35 Well, I guess I mean when I'm reading this I mean it won't be effective until the date of commencement
2:58:42 of the terms of councilmen elected at the next regular election. That would be November.
2:58:50 It seems to me that it should be November.
2:58:54 But if it was just going to be that, why wouldn't it just say until the date
2:59:01 It has to in my understanding because that's why they they passed everything and it didn't go in effect until 2019 is because it had to wait the cycle of
2:59:09 everybody that was on the council at the time. I mean that's what I'm wondering.
2:59:13 That's what I'm wondering. But it doesn't Let me just I'll look at that. It's a little tricky, but yeah. Yeah.
2:59:20 Cuz they they they put it in and it got passed, but it didn't come effective in 2019. Of course, at 2019, uh, Mayor Ash
2:59:28 was still here who who actually brought it all forward and the other council member was still here, but I think at that point, u everybody has psych.
2:59:35 I mean, that's reason. It seems reasonable to that seems like a common sense thing, but I'm wondering if the words actually say it. Like I I'm
2:59:43 wondering if it really means November or December or whatever. Yeah, as it may be. But I I'll look into it briefly.
2:59:52 Good. Thanks. I just feel like all the work we put in, we should be paid more and for future council members. Um, it's
3:00:00 a lot of work for a small I call it a stipen. I don't really see it as a salary. Um, and we want to be able to attract more people to come because, you
3:00:08 know, our day will come when we're no longer on here. And I want us to have people who want to come and be able to put the time in. But what we're paid, I
3:00:16 just Yeah. I mean, you make more money with flipping a burger. And I think this is well well when I when I were looking at
3:00:23 that way back in 20 2012 2013 and I looked at Roven at 15 and 1200 and they was only meeting
3:00:31 they weren't doing workshops they were meeting twice a month I say wow what a great part-time job $600 meeting twice a
3:00:37 month okay for a couple hours okay you know and they were always having every election they would have plenty of
3:00:45 people fighting for the position so that's why I kind of like Hey, maybe we increase hours. You know, we was at $3 and $400 for years.
3:00:55 See, I I don't look at it as a job. And and I don't honestly want elected officials who see it as a
3:01:02 job. I see it as service and volunteerism for the community. Um, I worry that if people look at it like
3:01:11 it's a way to make money that it will be something they either feel like they have to get more involved in the day-to-day, which we shouldn't be doing
3:01:18 as council members, or it would attract people who are doing it for the money.
3:01:23 And I just I I would I would be, as I said last year, I mean, if we didn't get paid anything, I would consider that
3:01:32 appropriate. Um, but I worry about the the policy of taking the approach that people who
3:01:40 serve on city council, you know, I'm I'm a voice of the people and and its service and it's vision, policy, budget,
3:01:48 and that's what we're supposed to be doing. And so, if we're finding ourselves spending an exorbitant amount of time, it means there's a dysfunction
3:01:55 somewhere. And I think that we should be working on reducing the amount of hours that are necessary rather than trying to
3:02:02 increase the to attract other people who are adding dysfunction to government. I mean I think you know it is at this level it you know if you go to the next
3:02:10 level up let's say lake county level then you know and then it's you know everybody's getting paid way more money but then you know like you think of uh
3:02:18 of Orlando mayor Buddy Dryer right he was a whole another that's his full-time job
3:02:26 that's a whole I mean you know that is a full time I can understand like how you know money attracts you know like if you want
3:02:33 to get a good CEO you're going to have to pay a good CEO.
3:02:37 Yeah. What what is a good CEO going to work for $44,000? I mean, that's that's what I'm saying. At what point you're going to get, you know? Okay. I mean, I can see both sides.
3:02:45 Well, I I understand what you're saying.
3:02:46 I don't want to just have pay all this money and get people to do this. But then at the same time, nobody
3:02:54 going to come out here and really do this. Just one of the com uh conversations I get into is the fact that you don't get paid enough for me to do this. You know, I don't get paid.
3:03:04 Ain't no way you can, you know, what you going through and all. And for me, here's other thing I deal with. Um, I get, yeah, I make a $100. Well, used to be $100 more than the council member.
3:03:15 But guess what?
3:03:16 I spend a lot of money every every month because it's a lot of people expect me to be here, there, and everywhere. And matter of fact, I just got a thing the
3:03:24 other night um want me to be at a function. $300 ticket. Okay. Okay. I get these kind of advice all the time. And a
3:03:33 lot of times I feel like as the mayor I need I need to show up and know I don't go to the city and ask the city to pay for a lot of this stuff. Uh I pay for a
3:03:41 lot of these functions myself. So um so I'm I I spend a tremendous amount of money every month uh from functions and
3:03:51 all this here. Uh sometime they do I do get invited and they they would uh pay for the ticket and everything for me to
3:03:58 come if they really want me to be there and I'm like oh I can't open you know and they may they may give me a ticket to uh pay for my fee and all but it's a
3:04:07 lot of these things that I make what I think I'm up to about $750 a month and some months I spend almost $2,000 just just going to events and doing that.
3:04:17 If it's city business you should get reimbursed. I mean and I don't mind reimbursements. I don't I'm not worried about that. It's just creating an environment where people feel like they
3:04:25 should have a job as a visionary in your neighborhood. I just don't think that that's some that's some people like me.
3:04:33 I I mean I did a lot of work in the community, you know, and I still do work in the community without getting without before I was on the council. I was I put
3:04:41 in a lot of work with the police department out there doing things and running around and never got any conversation. But that mean just like now I go to a lot of things. I pay for
3:04:49 it out of my pocket. I don't the city for reimbursement for a lot of Okay. But um it get to be it could be very
3:04:57 expensive sometime and I can understand what you say. She say she get $10 an hour and I think I put in a lot more hours than that. I don't think I make $10.
3:05:06 Probably don't. No. Exactly. I I just think that you should be pr I'm not saying that you do it to get rich. Of course not. Um, I'm just saying I think
3:05:14 we should be paid more because $600 for all this that is required of us in this position. I just don't think it covers.
3:05:21 I don't think it's adequate. And again, we want to be able to attract people who want to come here, who have a heart, because is it fair for someone who wants
3:05:30 to serve, but they're in a position where $600 is not feasible for them because they have a family that they're providing for, and now they're taking
3:05:37 time away from their family, from their full-time job to come here? I don't think so.
3:05:45 What number do you have in mind? 2,000. But council member for a month. Wow.
3:05:53 Okay. Well, like I say, some months I've seen months where I sp you know, I keep a log and kind of spend that much money, but not just, you know, for council, but
3:06:02 when I go to different activities and different events and but wow. I wouldn't don't look for that kind of increase. Could we on that note could
3:06:12 we just ask for that that that those that that those numbers of what what what is the current annual that we put
3:06:20 aside in the budget at current pay and what would then be a projected if if that's the number just so that
3:06:27 people know what that what that means for the budget. I think that's what this session is for. Yeah.
3:06:32 Not to say we approve it or not but to say information that we're seeking to consider in the budget.
3:06:39 And I I do think um in in reading it, I've come to the conclusion I think it starts for every after every election.
3:06:47 So in other words, let's hypothetically say we we've got three positions up in this election. I think it starts right after that election for those three
3:06:55 people. For the two who are remaining, I think it would start exactly. Okay. I I would I would I couldn't I can't support
3:07:03 a 2 to jump to 2,000 but uh I could probably go to a,00
3:07:10 or 1,200 or whatever and I don't think that we anyone here has said that they'd support or not support any item that we've talked about. I think it's this is just to give
3:07:18 some guidance and phil philosophical and direction for information inclusion, right?
3:07:25 Um and we we talk about it. I mean there's lots of things we could talk about that with relation to that. I you know I know that there's like you talked
3:07:33 about uh council member Strange about reimbursements for things and I know that there's funds available for that but it's not real clear to me how that
3:07:41 actually what are those funds actually meant for and is it per person or is it a pool and once it's gone it's gone. And
3:07:49 we haven't really talked, you know, that could be that could spur that conversation to talk a little bit more about that kind of council pot, if you
3:07:57 will, piece of the puzzle, uh, and how that works and how that fits.
3:08:02 You know, like I say, it's it's up to you all like just like u like yesterday I had to go up to Leburg.
3:08:10 I make these trips to Leburg. I make the batteries on official business, but I don't even file for travel vouchers for, you know, and sometimes the other day
3:08:19 I'm like, man, gas getting expensive. I need to start gas. But I I do a lot of the these trips and things like this
3:08:27 back and forth. Um, but I can I can support an increase, but I don't think I can go to two I can't I can't see a
3:08:35 $2,000 and everything. So, that's that's a little little steep. And we are the largest city. Here's the other thing I look at. We're the largest city in Lake County
3:08:43 and we're probably the lowest paid Yes. council members in Lake County.
3:08:47 I just maintain that our role is to establish the vision or the direct line from the citizens. The citizens pay the
3:08:54 taxes. Um I'm I'm not comfortable with an increase. I don't think that I don't think we want to be attracting people
3:09:02 where the money impacts them. I have I have citizen coming to me all the time and telling we don't get paid enough and they I mean like I say I've even come to
3:09:10 council me and try to tell if we need increase there there's no no the amount of money it would take for people with backgrounds
3:09:17 that that we have to come in and consult for somebody. I mean it's it's far more than what we get paid but we're not consultants and we're not employees. Um
3:09:26 we we're not we don't work for the government. We work for the people and the people are paying the taxes. So, I
3:09:34 just think that that's where I stand on it. Same place I stood last year. And and I know we're not saying what we would support or not, but to me, this isn't a
3:09:42 budget thing. And I'm wholly uncomfortable even with the idea of it.
3:09:48 And so, it's I can't anything else.
3:09:59 Yeah, I would like to add something while we're talking about paying for things. Um, I I talked with the Lake
3:10:06 County attorney yesterday and she had brought up that the fact that now we have a lot of the land around Excalibur
3:10:14 to see if we were open to taking over Excalibur. I mean, we got a lot of land around.
3:10:21 We're not that we We're not. We're not. No. Okay.
3:10:25 Wait. I'm I'm open to it if they fund Hancock. Have them fun. I'm interested why she because I thought we resolved
3:10:33 this. We had a conversation with the assistant county attorney and Stony and myself earlier this week or last week. Oh, really?
3:10:41 Yeah. This looks like an endound to me.
3:10:45 I mean I mean what land is it around Excalibur that we have?
3:10:48 I'll let you go. I mean I'm just Hey, let's take Excalibur if they'll fund and build Hancock by 2027.
3:10:55 What's their proposal? I'm just saying the proposal is just for us to take it over, take over maintenance and ownership of it.
3:11:00 Why? Why? Why did you say I She just said it's built to city standards and that asked if we take it
3:11:07 over because they don't want to have to pay for the lighting and everything we going to put out there eventually. Hopefully.
3:11:15 They said they would still pay for that. Huh?
3:11:17 They said they were still paying for the light.
3:11:19 Well, for now. Yeah. Well, they kind of got the hand tied up right now to pay for the lighting that we're putting out there. I told her I would ask.
3:11:28 Well, let me let me just tell you what the substance of our conversation was.
3:11:32 Um, the assistant county attorney requested that I attend a meeting with Stony and staff in order to discuss
3:11:41 whether or not it was already covered under we have an agreement I think regarding maintenance of um certain
3:11:48 roads. So if we annex or um get you know enough over 50% of the adjacent
3:11:57 properties come into the city then we've agreed already to take it but um and and their position has been that that
3:12:05 threshold has been met actually by Excalibur staff disagrees um and so we went through the map and showed now it
3:12:14 doesn't I mean you as a policy matter can determine that you can choose as a matter of your grace place to take it, but under the terms of the agreement, we don't think the threshold's been met.
3:12:23 So, the only only piece of property I don't even I think in the city is the corner of a hook and Excalibur, right? That's in the city.
3:12:32 Yeah. There I mean, I don't know if I had to guess, we were kind of guesstimating what the percentages are.
3:12:37 Yeah, because if you go and then it turns into um well, you got what that what the name Eagle Lake subdivision down on the other
3:12:45 corner down there. The back back side of that on uh Excalibur and and what's that sit out because everything else is
3:12:54 county and unless D but I'm pretty sure we're talking about Excalibur.
3:13:01 Yeah, I think there's only one Excalibur. She did. They did an under. It did.
3:13:07 Well, that so she wasn't at your meeting, right? We had maps. We went over everything.
3:13:12 We respectfully said we will get back to you, but we we had a meeting on our end and it's really clear to us that at
3:13:20 least we're not obligated. Again, if you all decide that's what you want, but we're not obligated.
3:13:26 Well, I I shared in my meeting uh with Rick on this that I'd be for the city handling all of our roads if it meant
3:13:34 that we got appropriate reduction in our taxes to the county for the share of the roads, but I just don't think they're in
3:13:42 a position to be able to appropriately identify what that is.
3:13:45 That's that's why they trying to get rid of them because they don't have the funding to get. So, you think, well, they have the funding, they're just spending it on other things. And
3:13:52 that's my point is if you know, if we look at the billion dollar budget of the county and we look at roads and water and sewer, I guarantee you find there's
3:14:00 plenty of money there. But I just think it's like EMS. I just don't think we're going to get the the we would not come
3:14:06 out on the right end of that. And but I think it'd be great if we had control over all.
3:14:12 Well, I would love I would love to do that, too. And here's one of the things I said to them is the fact that if they bring all the roads up to standard,
3:14:20 top standard, I'll be happy to take them, but but we still have to pay for it.
3:14:24 Well, if they bring them up to standard now, I I got a little time down the road. I mean, if you upgrade it now and get it up to standard now, I got 10
3:14:31 years or so to play with before I have to worry about it. Okay?
3:14:36 You know, right now, don't don't dunk this road on me that's that's below standard right now that I have to go out immediately and put money in. Okay?
3:14:44 Okay. So, yeah. So, the basically they came up with a novel interpretation of the agreement. They said, "Well, if you
3:14:50 take Excalibur past Citrus Tower, then we have all the property." That's that's Steve's road.
3:14:58 That's Steve's road. That's why that's Steve road. It's not and the agreement's very true that it only applies to between collectors and
3:15:08 and so like we just that's why I'm saying we don't have 50%.
3:15:12 I mean we just got the one corner there and of course I guess they giving us the well we got the subdivision there on the corner.
3:15:17 I mean there's schools there's schools the schools that's county that's school board that's not so that's right.
3:15:26 We don't know much at all.
3:15:28 Well, well, well then I mean I'll tell you but then they also so then they retreated from that and then they took the position that well we've annexed the
3:15:37 entire road like we annexed and we're like we're really struggling to find so we've looked into this. We immediately
3:15:45 looked into this after the call. This was I don't know Thursday or Wednesday of last week and we can't understand h what but the
3:15:53 property appraiser does show that the property appraiser shows something there is a map that shows that but it's it's never happened it's not a
3:16:01 we annex something on there well we do have some like you know a small bit of
3:16:08 property along Excalibur that is in our jurisdiction but it's not clear how any map would show that we took Excalibur.
3:16:18 So that was their fallback position. And what we what my only theory is that maybe someone misconstrued the ordinance
3:16:25 regarding Steve's road to go all the way. That's my best theory. But I don't want to ask this question.
3:16:33 Here's a good question for my reaction.
3:16:34 Here's a good question to ask. If if we own if the city owned it, how was it the county was able to go back and rename it?
3:16:41 Oh, yeah. Yeah. and and okay and and and has been handling all the maintenance and has been I mean there's
3:16:48 a bunch of things about that. So, but that's not to say that, you know, you all can't use it as a bargaining chip.
3:16:55 You know, if we get something in return as, you know, but we're not obligated to.
3:17:01 For those watching in the county, we love working with the county, you know, but you know, I I I when it comes to roads, I I mean,
3:17:10 it's just the Excalibur isn't bad, but uh in bad condition, but a lot of the roads that they I think they trying to
3:17:17 get rid of need work done on them. if they're willing to do the work and bring them up to standard. I don't have no That was a point Stony raised. I mean, he felt that maybe they weren't up to the city standards.
3:17:27 County disagrees, but we didn't want to get into that.
3:17:32 Repairs and all hearts and minds clear so we can Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Sorry to keep us after six.
3:17:42 Okay, meeting. Awesome. Heat.